[Lian]

So a buddy of mine was taking a flight home to see his Mom the other other day, and as he was going through security he got detained by TSA. They gave him the pat down and the whole nine yards before they put him in a room by himself during which he was informed that they'd found something in his bags which was suspicious. So he sat there for almost an hour and a half while they searched, re-searched, and then searched his bags again. I can't even imagine what they were doing to justify taking such a long time because my buddy has always traveled light. I've seen him survive week long trips with what he just had in a backpack before and he tells me this trip wasn't much different. So anyway to make a long boring story short an hour and a half later they released him with just fifteen minutes to get to his flight. The offending items...? A box of condoms and an unopened jar of peanut butter. They nearly made him miss his flight over a god damn jar of peanut butter. So everyone that flies has been asking the same question really so I just wanted to ask your opinion on it

At what point do you think going to far becomes going to far?

[Vorpal]

That depends on how much freedom the people want to give up for their security.

If you want tight security, then is that jar of peanut butter really just a jar of peanut butter? Consider how easy it may be to hide something in a jar of peanut butter and reseal it. A jar of peanut butter also isn't a common item to carry along, so that makes it a suspicious item especially when you add in the consideration of the possibility of hiding things within it.

[Assassin42]

TSA are just thugs with a uniform.

Before I retired from the military, when my unit went anywhere (like NTC) we had to use civilian air travel. Every time we went through the TSA checkpoints even in uniform with our orders in our pocket we would be harassed by these idiots. One time they took a box of cookies from one of our troops and said he wasn't allowed to carry them. They then laughed as they opened the box up and passed it around eating them in front of us. Another time I had a bottle of tea in my assault pack. I was put through the pat down and told I wasn't allowed to bring that on the plane. I said, fine I'll drink it right now right here. Their reply was no you are not allowed to open it. One of the TSA screeners then picked up my unopened bottle of tea and then said (while snickering) that he was going on break.

So tell me, were we terrorists? My unit was in uniform WITH orders and our military ID cards. Were they just testing the cookies to make sure they wouldn't explode, and confirming it by having all the screeners on their crew try them?

[Morbidfilm]

Assassin42, on 14 March 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

TSA are just thugs with a uniform.

Before I retired from the military, when my unit went anywhere (like NTC) we had to use civilian air travel. Every time we went through the TSA checkpoints even in uniform with our orders in our pocket we would be harassed by these idiots. One time they took a box of cookies from one of our troops and said he wasn't allowed to carry them. They then laughed as they opened the box up and passed it around eating them in front of us. Another time I had a bottle of tea in my assault pack. I was put through the pat down and told I wasn't allowed to bring that on the plane. I said, fine I'll drink it right now right here. Their reply was no you are not allowed to open it. One of the TSA screeners then picked up my unopened bottle of tea and then said (while snickering) that he was going on break.

So tell me, were we terrorists? My unit was in uniform WITH orders and our military ID cards. Were they just testing the cookies to make sure they wouldn't explode, and confirming it by having all the screeners on their crew try them?

Ok, I can understand the peanut butter jar, but that is bullshit! And to laugh about it and basically taught soldiers? WTF is that? People getting on a plane are still costumers and should be treated with respect. I'm telling you, this is turning into Nazi America.

[Lian]

I won't argue that the way my buddy eats peanut butter is a bit bizarre but does it really take an hour and a half of detaining someone to determine that a jar of peanut butter is not a threat and to let them go. Would it have been better if it had been half eaten or something...?

And yea... when your eating the cookies your confiscating right in front of the people it's little better than pillaging. Is this the kinds of lows we have to stoop to in order to feel safe outside our own homes...? And if those are the kinds of security procedures these so called specialists are employing to catch supposed terrorists then god help us all if they have some little old lady take a flight out to a bake sale. Will take half of the TSA staff in the building with her.

[Morbidfilm]

I agree over an hour is a bit much.
There is a slight chance I might be flying cross country to do my first location effects gig some time this year and all I keep thinking about is how the hell do I pack for effects?? How are they going to react to severed heads and such? I'm going to have to call a big effects house to see what they do. I guess mail everything first.

[DarthJoe8]

You have NO right to fly. Don't like the security? Take a bus. Next time someone gets by security and blows up a plan everyone will be screaming about what went wrong and who's to blame...

I do think that there are some pretty stupid things that the TSA does but hey.....don't fly then.

[Lian]

I have to counter that with why shouldn't I have the right to fly? I'm American, I have money, and have committed no crime which restricts my travel. What gives these TSA goons the right to treat me like a criminal just because I'm trying to get across the country in a timely manner. Sure... I could take a bus or drive if I wanted to spend a week or more just trying to get somewhere. Plus basic bus rates are getting to the point they are comparable to last minute booking prices at the airport. It's actually more expensive to buy bus tickets ahead of time than it is to buy plane tickets now. And who's to say that they'll blow up a plane next? Why not a bus? A car bomb? An oil tanker in the gulf? There are plenty of other viable terror targets, what makes planes so special aside from the fact that we got blindsided on 9-11. It doesn't matter where the next attack comes there is always going to be finger pointing at who was to blame, and then they'll use the trumped up fear to take more Liberties away, again. Where does it stop? With TSA standing guard at every public transit system? Army checkpoints on the highway?

[DarthJoe8]

I hear what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree with you...
You do know that you have NO right to drive either. Police can pull you over and search you for NO reason. (they make one up on the spot) That your ability to drive can be taking away....


I find it kinda funny what people think is their "rights", we need more civics classes taught so people truly understand what is and what isn't a right. Like I said earlier, the TSA goes overboard sometimes but at the same time if they miss one person...think about the disaster that will happen because someone didn't want to be inconvenienced with a search....and police can and do search random passengers of trains, buses etc...


When one or two planes can kill a few thousand people I say that you get searched before boarding a plane. And even with all the security we've still had a couple of near hits...

[Vorpal]

I guess you could say the elected leaders gave them the right to treat everybody like criminals. If you want your freedom back, then you'd have to petition for lesser security. Of course, if something does happen, guess who'll be blamed? You're pretty much damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Assassin42 - That was wrong of them. Y'all deserve a lot more respect than that.




ETA: You have the right to fly. Go right ahead and buy your own plane. However, if you want to use their plane, then you'd have to follow their rules.

[Assassin42]

In case you haven't heard TSA is already expanding into bus stations and train stations. They did some test runs with it off and on for the last couple years and are now slowly moving in permanently. If they did it quickly, all in one shot, there would be too many questions about it. I have heard that TSA is also actively lobbying congress to get a mandate over the interstate highways. So they can set up checkpoints to stop a potential car bombing.

I understand the whole security thing, trying to keep us safe. But it just looks to me to be too much of a police state in the making. You might wake up one morning and find there is now curfews, checkpoints at every major intersection, and the Bill of Rights is now gone all in the name of stopping a potential terrorist. There does come a point when it does go too far. But how far is that point before people say enough with this, and when they do will they be declared the new terrorists?

[Vorpal]

I'm seeing more and more cameras at major intersections.

[Morbidfilm]

DarthJoe8, on 14 March 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

You have NO right to fly. Don't like the security? Take a bus. Next time someone gets by security and blows up a plan everyone will be screaming about what went wrong and who's to blame...

I do think that there are some pretty stupid things that the TSA does but hey.....don't fly then.

Some people have to for their jobs. But now because the Bush Administration fucked over some Arabs, those people trying to do their jobs are treated like criminals.

[Lian]

DarthJoe8, on 15 March 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

I hear what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree with you...
You do know that you have NO right to drive either. Police can pull you over and search you for NO reason. (they make one up on the spot) That your ability to drive can be taking away....


I find it kinda funny what people think is their "rights", we need more civics classes taught so people truly understand what is and what isn't a right. Like I said earlier, the TSA goes overboard sometimes but at the same time if they miss one person...think about the disaster that will happen because someone didn't want to be inconvenienced with a search....and police can and do search random passengers of trains, buses etc...


When one or two planes can kill a few thousand people I say that you get searched before boarding a plane. And even with all the security we've still had a couple of near hits...

So what...? Do we need a license to fly in a plane now?

And yes technically a cop can search your car, to a point. Unless a cop has a warrant they are technically only allowed to search places where you might have quickly hid something as you drove by, and if they do they'll have to prove probable cause for that search later if they do find something. This does not however include your trunk, so while they can ask you to open it to search it you are legally allowed to tell them no. Also technically they are allowed to pat you down but unless they have a very strong suspicion that what you have is a weapon technically they can't take it from you without a warrant. You could have a bag of pot in your pocket the size of a softball but unless you take it out and show it to them they technically aren't allowed to do anything, without probable cause, which won't help you if your softball sized ball of pot can be smelt from six blocks away, but that's more a technicality in my mind. As a general rule this doesn't include dogs either though which are basically probable cause in their own right.

Also when you get down to it our "rights" were written by men two hundred years ago and they didn't have things like cars, and planes. If anything I think instead of civic's classes to explain the rules to us I think the rules themselves need to be updated.

Assassin42, on 15 March 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

In case you haven't heard TSA is already expanding into bus stations and train stations. They did some test runs with it off and on for the last couple years and are now slowly moving in permanently. If they did it quickly, all in one shot, there would be too many questions about it. I have heard that TSA is also actively lobbying congress to get a mandate over the interstate highways. So they can set up checkpoints to stop a potential car bombing.

I understand the whole security thing, trying to keep us safe. But it just looks to me to be too much of a police state in the making. You might wake up one morning and find there is now curfews, checkpoints at every major intersection, and the Bill of Rights is now gone all in the name of stopping a potential terrorist. There does come a point when it does go too far. But how far is that point before people say enough with this, and when they do will they be declared the new terrorists?

See that's my point exactly. It's going to be a cold day in hell before I let TSA search my car. I'd sooner firebomb them and crash the checkpoint than let those weasels near my belongings at this point.