[Icarus]

Been reading a lot of posts on here about equipment and I haven't seen anyone mention lock picking. It seems like a lot of people are over looking this skill which is essential to me.

I should probably preface all this by telling you that I am fairly good at lock picking and the local hardware store doesn't sell any locks I can't pick, I only know this because over the past year or so I have bought one of every kind and picked them. 90% of the locks used in the uk I can pick with only a hand full of picks and tension tools.

Lock picking gives you the ability to gain entry to anything with a standard pin and tumbler lock, quickly and quietly without attracting unwanted attention and you don't have to destroy the structural integrity of the door you are opening. (with a second tool which is fairly easy to make out of wire coat hangers you can also make a curtain/mortice lock pick)

I know a lot of you would just use a shot gun to blow the hinges off a door, which is fine if you don't mind every thing within a mile being alerted to your presence, and you still haven't even entered the building yet. Not to mention anything that was dormant in the building now knows you are there and from which side you are coming from. Also, for you to gain entry through a destructive method this means zombies can also get in the same way. Using lock picks creates a barrier you can pass but they can't. Also, if for some insane reason you are in a large building or series of buildings where there are many locked doors, if you have to use 2-3 rounds each time you want to go through a door, that is soon going to start hurting your ammo.

Another advantage to lock picking you can gain entry into things like safes and steel doors that would be near impossible to get into without a shaped charge and/or power tools and using explosives will potentially destroy anything inside such as ammo or guns. To gain a firearms certificate in the UK you need a safe that is attached to a "solid wall" in your home. To gain entry to one of these would be difficult without power tools, and explosives would damage anything inside(+ to get explosives in the uk, they are probably in a similar safe). I have been able to pick a few safes (with permission of the owners) and it's not any different to a standard lock.

Most commonly used padlocks in the uk i can generally pick in <60 seconds sometimes <10. The high security "anti pick" locks can take me up to 15 minutes. The high security pad locks are generally bullet resistant as well, probably the only thing a desert eagle would be useful for in a ZPAW is breaking those locks lol.

The cons-

1. While picking you are vulnerable, both your hands are being used and you are completely focused on the picking, meaning you are not scanning for threats. (With a buddy on lookout, or even a dog, this problem can be negated)

2. Learning to pick locks is time consuming and require a lot of reading and research. It also hurts until you get callouses and better technique.

3. Can take considerably longer to gain entry compared to a destructive method such as a crowbar or shotgun. (a good pick set will weigh only a few grams a shotgun or crowbar a lot more)

4. Must be calm to use complex motor skills, making lock picking immediately after an ambush or injury difficult/impossible.

To sum up, lock picks weigh almost nothing and take up little space. They are a very situational tool, but there is no disadvantage to having them as an option.

It does take time to learn, but I enjoy lock picking as a hobby, and it's a good skill to have either way.

[rowdyrugby]

I want to advise everyone to be careful with lock picking threads for legal reasons. Simply carrying a lock picking set without proper cause in some jurisdictions is a misdemeanor!

[Icarus]

rowdyrugby, on 17 February 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

I want to advise everyone to be careful with lock picking threads for legal reasons. Simply carrying a lock picking set without proper cause in some jurisdictions is a misdemeanor!

Lock picks are legal the same way a corwbar is legal. Obviously you should never pick a lock that you don't own or have permission to pick. Also, sorry yes, some places lockpicks are illegal to own. But most places it's fine. It's up to you to check for your own region. I take no responsibility. In Europe (where I'm from) It's perfectly legal to own an use lock picks(with the exception of poland) as long is it's not to do something illegal.

We never get legal barriers talking about guns..... So what's the deal?

[rowdyrugby]

Icarus, on 17 February 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

rowdyrugby, on 17 February 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

I want to advise everyone to be careful with lock picking threads for legal reasons. Simply carrying a lock picking set without proper cause in some jurisdictions is a misdemeanor!

Lock picks are legal the same way a corwbar is legal. Obviously you should never pick a lock that you don't own or have permission to pick. Also, sorry yes, some places lockpicks are illegal to own. But most places it's fine. It's up to you to check for your own region. I take no responsibility. In Europe (where I'm from) It's perfectly legal to own an use lock picks(with the exception of poland) as long is it's not to do something illegal.

We never get legal barriers talking about guns..... So what's the deal?

I'm just stating that here in the states, some people should be careful and aware of local laws........No need to get your panties in a bunch

[kiltedninja]

I have a friend who is quite good at picking locks but he never did it for illegal activities, just cause he could really.

[Veldro]

Lockpicking is definitely a skill worth having in an apocalyptic scenario. When looting and looking for supplies, you would run across locked cabinets, doors, chains, etc all the time, and would need an effective way to get in.

[OVERKILL]

3 important things to keep in mind about lockpicking over other methods of gaining entry are

1) It is quiet. You may be able to shoot the locks and hinges off doors, but that makes a lot of noise.

2) It leaves doors re-lockable. This might be handy to keep zombies out if intend on taking shelter there for the night. Crowbars and other methods may render the lock inoperable.

3) Size and weight. Lockpicking tools are much smaller and lighter than other methods of opening locks.

[Zombie362]

My lockpick skill in Skyrim is almost to 90...I feel I've adequately prepared myself.

[OVERKILL]

I honed mine with Fallout 3, almost a good as Elder Scrolls :)

[daewoo]

LOL
in games I don't bother with lock picking. I just blew up the lock. spawn 500 crates of TNT, back up a good distance shoot any crate and BOOM no more lock.

In real life I don't use lock picks. I use brute force. crowbar, hacksaw, circular saw, sledgehammer, thermite, even explosives. no lock is unbreakable.
Usually anything involving explosives is worthless, since only money or gold bars would be locked up that tight. paper money has no value if the government can't back it up, you can't eat gold.
Guns might be locked in a strong room. a few hours with a sledge hammer will wreak any lock. only money is put in bank vaults.

[OVERKILL]

zephyr made me think of another reason to learn lockpicking. Brute force could destroy what's inside (thinking more along the lines of explosives).

[kiltedninja]

If I had wood and building supplies I could set up a new lock after kicking in the door.

[Lian]

I'd think you'd still be farther ahead using a handheld drill. Real thieves don't bother with lockpicks because they are too slow, it's much easier to destroy the locking mechanism than it is to bypass the lock and leave it intact. I'm also of the opinion that people simply have too much confidence in locks. Any door worth having in Zpaw has one of those old fashion locking systems that resembles a steel bar laid into a bracket mounted to the wall. Realistically you could use your crowbar to bar the door, could reuse the brackets, and the same drill that you used to break in could have the brackets mounted in a couple of minutes.

[Icarus]

For your average house door sure, but what about shutters or metal doors/frames with a decent padlock? Cutting a boron carbide lock even with super heavy duty cutters will take time and in some cases be impossible if you can't get enough leverage. Also many stores are required by their insurance companies to have locks that you can't just jimmy open with a crowbar.

Point is it's a very situational thing, but I would rather have it as an option than not.

Also recently I tried my hand at picking my own car locks, which I managed to do for the first time without any instruction within 5 minutes. Managed to bypass the steering lock and turn the ignition also which took a littler longer, won't explain how but I am fairly certain if I didn't mind doing some cosmetic damage to my car i could have it working as if i had a key in the ignition. You can't say that wont come in handy during a zombie apocalypse.

God I hope this apocalypse happens because otherwise I have far to many otherwise useless skills.

[Lian]

I don't know being able to start a car without a key is a semi useful skill in my mind...

But in zpaw if I can't get in with my handheld drill and crowbar then I'll switch to the big guns and move to the thermite and melt it off. I enjoy lock picking as a hobby, an art, and as a semi useless skill that I have. True breaking in entering though is less about art and finesse and more about speed, quiet, and precision though.

[Icarus]

Lian, on 23 April 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

I don't know being able to start a car without a key is a semi useful skill in my mind...

But in zpaw if I can't get in with my handheld drill and crowbar then I'll switch to the big guns and move to the thermite and melt it off. I enjoy lock picking as a hobby, an art, and as a semi useless skill that I have. True breaking in entering though is less about art and finesse and more about speed, quiet, and precision though.

If you are happy to carry a drill and crowbar around as dead weight, sure go for it, but since the only locks those would really work on are the cheap sort that I can pick in a matter of seconds those tools are redundant to me. As for drilling with a hand drill, that's pretty fiddly and time consuming if you have ever done it. simply drilling a lock will not magically open it and you may have to drill more than once and like I said it only works on certain cheap locks. Even with power tools it takes quite a long time, I can't imagine it being any faster with a hand drill.

As for thermite, how are you going to cut a lock on a vertical door using thermite from the outside? You would need to set up a rig so that it pours through the lock or cuts the bolt without welding the door shut/setting everything on fire. Same with padlocks, you would need to set up an elaborate rig to make sure you only cut what needs to be cut and don't end up welding the lock shut completely. When I used thermite the only thing I saw it do was make a messy puddle of iron and turn sand to glass, which was cool and all, but unless you plan on repairing some railway lines or burning through engine blocks it's not much use. Very hot molten iron has a tendency to go straight down.

This isn't an rp thread, or atleast I don't think it is. Maybe it is and i just didn't notice.

[Lian]

Eh... I wasn't ever really concerned about cheap locks as cheap locks are usually easy to bypass entirely via breaking a window or something. I don't know how much experience you have with drilling locks but I bet you a shiny that i could still drill through a "Good" lock faster than you cold pick it. As for the thermite... It's all in the application... And to be honest i couldn't really care less in a PAW if I make a lock that i already don't have the key to even less useful by welding it shut or something. Maybe not the best video here since it looks like they used a walmart five dollar lock but that's what... fifteen seconds and there suddenly isn't even a lock at all anymore.

[Vorpal]

zephyr, on 08 March 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

LOL
in games I don't bother with lock picking. I just blew up the lock. spawn 500 crates of TNT, back up a good distance shoot any crate and BOOM no more lock.

OVERKILL, on 09 March 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

zephyr made me think of another reason to learn lockpicking. Brute force could destroy what's inside (thinking more along the lines of explosives).

Ever play Castle Wolfenstein? I learned the hard way that shooting locked boxes was a bad idea.


Game over, man! GAME OVER!





While lock picking skill may be handy, and the picks are light and easy to carry, the question is, is it worth the time spent learning when there are alternative methods of bypassing a lock, and whether the time spent could be used to learn a more important skill? If one really has nothing better to do, then that seems like a useful skill to learn. It could even provide some entertainment during the ZPAW if you're holed up with nothing to do.

[Icarus]

Yeah i saw that video too, lock like that you could probably hit it with a rock and get it off just as easy which is what i would do if i came across a lock like that.

I have yet to see a video of anyone drilling a lock worth more than $10 in less than 3 minutes with a power drill.

[massacre07]

rowdyrugby, on 19 February 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Icarus, on 17 February 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

rowdyrugby, on 17 February 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

I want to advise everyone to be careful with lock picking threads for legal reasons. Simply carrying a lock picking set without proper cause in some jurisdictions is a misdemeanor!

Lock picks are legal the same way a corwbar is legal. Obviously you should never pick a lock that you don't own or have permission to pick. Also, sorry yes, some places lockpicks are illegal to own. But most places it's fine. It's up to you to check for your own region. I take no responsibility. In Europe (where I'm from) It's perfectly legal to own an use lock picks(with the exception of poland) as long is it's not to do something illegal.

We never get legal barriers talking about guns..... So what's the deal?

I'm just stating that here in the states, some people should be careful and aware of local laws........No need to get your panties in a bunch

Ditto in Canada, unless you are law enforcement I am pretty sure it's intent to commit crime

And to my point of learning the skill of lock picking.. is that I am a fairly hefty guy who has played a lot of contact sports and most non security doors I will not/have not had a hard time throwing my weight into (yes done it a couple of times) with my person or a tool. In terms of picking locks on security doors I doubt anyone but a career criminal would be able to enter through because of the very nature that it's a security door and likely has more security features than a lock. Besides if I've got the time to sit and pick a lock I've got the time to look for an alternative means of entering a building.