[backer54]

So after reading around on this forum it seems like there are some pretty darn competent people on here. So what I want to talk about is spotting for a shooter. When I played army full time we did the bulk of our training and all of our fighting in a city based environment. So somebody could say up the street 3 romeo 2,4 us face. That would mean 3 buildings up on the right, wall mostly facing us, 2nd floor, 4th window from the left. We had a quick and useful system for spotters to get DM and MG sights into the right general area.

That being said I went hunting with my uncle this morning and skipped around singing herp da derp derpy do wop derp... He has a lot more time in the woods than me and would call out yards and direction followed by "the big maple on the same side as the ash just past the little hickory". I don't really know my trees that well and am trying to learn more. What do you guys do in the woods for target ID?

backer54, on 23 December 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

So after reading around on this forum it seems like there are some pretty darn competent people on here. So what I want to talk about is spotting for a shooter. When I played army full time we did the bulk of our training and all of our fighting in a city based environment. So somebody could say up the street 3 romeo 2,4 us face. That would mean 3 buildings up on the right, wall mostly facing us, 2nd floor, 4th window from the left. We had a quick and useful system for spotters to get DM and MG sights into the right general area.

That being said I went hunting with my uncle this morning and skipped around singing herp da derp derpy do wop derp... He has a lot more time in the woods than me and would call out yards and direction followed by "the big maple on the same side as the ash just past the little hickory". I don't really know my trees that well and am trying to learn more. What do you guys do in the woods for target ID?

Also this is unrelated but I have finally fixed enough crap for enough people that when I cleaned out my shop today I found enough parts to put together a working chainsaw, a weed eater, and two lawn mowers...

[hotlead]

I use compass directions, distances in yards, geographical features, and then vegetation or color differences.

But usually for target ID in the woods, I just shoot at stuff with antlers or curly tails.

[Frallon]

Just be like duck hunter. Top Left.

[massacre07]

depending on who I am with in the bush I use a couple of different methods.. mostly its a combination of geographical features and either compass direction (helps to carry an open face compass for easy reference) or in "hours" (not sure of the exact term for this) for example 'white tail @ 10 o'clock 150 yards on the ridge'

[Assassin42]

Clock face direction, distance in meters, quick description

10 o'clock, 150 meters, left side of small rise next to the pine

[kiltedninja]

ADDRAC Alert, Direction, Description, Range, Action, Control.

Thats what we were taught in ITB, here's an example.

"Hey Backer, 2 o'clock, 5 zombies, 150-200 meters, fire when they get within 100 meters."

Something like that would be about right.

[backer54]

Clock method has worked for me in the past with all party's understanding "noon". So say your facing north and your teammate is facing south his 6 would be 12, or your 12 would be his/her six. Does that make any since to anyone else? We also did the three Ds, distance, direction, and displacement. 150 meters, 210 degrees, 5 military age males with AK type rifles. But for the mot part a lack of buildings made all of this theory for the most part.

[Vorpal]

backer54, on 27 December 2011 - 11:45 PM, said:

Clock method has worked for me in the past with all party's understanding "noon". So say your facing north and your teammate is facing south his 6 would be 12, or your 12 would be his/her six. Does that make any since to anyone else? We also did the three Ds, distance, direction, and displacement. 150 meters, 210 degrees, 5 military age males with AK type rifles. But for the mot part a lack of buildings made all of this theory for the most part.

Clock method seems to be the simplest and easiest. The problem of you and your teammate facing different directions would also apply to your building directions.

[Assassin42]

Direction of movement is always 12 o'clock. Anyone who served knows that.

[backer54]

Assassin42, on 29 December 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

Direction of movement is always 12 o'clock. Anyone who served knows that.

"Anyone who served"? Not so much...

[Assassin42]

Ok.

Anyone that was combat arms in ground forces such as infantry, armor, cavalry, engineer, etc...

[homelitexl]

backer54, on 23 December 2011 - 09:19 PM, said:

So after reading around on this forum it seems like there are some pretty darn competent people on here. So what I want to talk about is spotting for a shooter. When I played army full time we did the bulk of our training and all of our fighting in a city based environment. So somebody could say up the street 3 romeo 2,4 us face. That would mean 3 buildings up on the right, wall mostly facing us, 2nd floor, 4th window from the left. We had a quick and useful system for spotters to get DM and MG sights into the right general area.

That being said I went hunting with my uncle this morning and skipped around singing herp da derp derpy do wop derp... He has a lot more time in the woods than me and would call out yards and direction followed by "the big maple on the same side as the ash just past the little hickory". I don't really know my trees that well and am trying to learn more. What do you guys do in the woods for target ID?

backer54, on 23 December 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

So after reading around on this forum it seems like there are some pretty darn competent people on here. So what I want to talk about is spotting for a shooter. When I played army full time we did the bulk of our training and all of our fighting in a city based environment. So somebody could say up the street 3 romeo 2,4 us face. That would mean 3 buildings up on the right, wall mostly facing us, 2nd floor, 4th window from the left. We had a quick and useful system for spotters to get DM and MG sights into the right general area.

That being said I went hunting with my uncle this morning and skipped around singing herp da derp derpy do wop derp... He has a lot more time in the woods than me and would call out yards and direction followed by "the big maple on the same side as the ash just past the little hickory". I don't really know my trees that well and am trying to learn more. What do you guys do in the woods for target ID?

Also this is unrelated but I have finally fixed enough crap for enough people that when I cleaned out my shop today I found enough parts to put together a working chainsaw, a weed eater, and two lawn mowers...

what kinda chainsaw

[backer54]

homelitexl, on 30 December 2011 - 08:14 PM, said:

backer54, on 23 December 2011 - 09:19 PM, said:

So after reading around on this forum it seems like there are some pretty darn competent people on here. So what I want to talk about is spotting for a shooter. When I played army full time we did the bulk of our training and all of our fighting in a city based environment. So somebody could say up the street 3 romeo 2,4 us face. That would mean 3 buildings up on the right, wall mostly facing us, 2nd floor, 4th window from the left. We had a quick and useful system for spotters to get DM and MG sights into the right general area.

That being said I went hunting with my uncle this morning and skipped around singing herp da derp derpy do wop derp... He has a lot more time in the woods than me and would call out yards and direction followed by "the big maple on the same side as the ash just past the little hickory". I don't really know my trees that well and am trying to learn more. What do you guys do in the woods for target ID?

backer54, on 23 December 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

So after reading around on this forum it seems like there are some pretty darn competent people on here. So what I want to talk about is spotting for a shooter. When I played army full time we did the bulk of our training and all of our fighting in a city based environment. So somebody could say up the street 3 romeo 2,4 us face. That would mean 3 buildings up on the right, wall mostly facing us, 2nd floor, 4th window from the left. We had a quick and useful system for spotters to get DM and MG sights into the right general area.

That being said I went hunting with my uncle this morning and skipped around singing herp da derp derpy do wop derp... He has a lot more time in the woods than me and would call out yards and direction followed by "the big maple on the same side as the ash just past the little hickory". I don't really know my trees that well and am trying to learn more. What do you guys do in the woods for target ID?

Also this is unrelated but I have finally fixed enough crap for enough people that when I cleaned out my shop today I found enough parts to put together a working chainsaw, a weed eater, and two lawn mowers...

what kinda chainsaw

A little stihl 009. Its just a baby one bolt 16" bar.

Assassin42, on 30 December 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

Ok.

Anyone that was combat arms in ground forces such as infantry, armor, cavalry, engineer, etc...

I know I started this post about the woods, and not urban fighting, but a point of confusion that came up even in those occupations was direction of travel Vs. direction of tank hull. You would have infantry looking big picture as in we are heading north, north is 12. And then you would have bradley crews saying we made a left onto this street and are now facing west, but noon is still my vehicles hull. So that being said the infantry calls armor for support saying contact 2 o'clock 300 meters, meaning northwestish 300 meters, and armor crews that made a left looking for targets northeastish. I still believe that the opord should specify a true compass reading for noon.

[Vorpal]

A true compass reading for noon doesn't help without knowledge of the other group's position. The catch is that with knowledge of the other group's position, you wouldn't need a true compass reading for noon.

[Assassin42]

Quote

I know I started this post about the woods, and not urban fighting, but a point of confusion that came up even in those occupations was direction of travel Vs. direction of tank hull. You would have infantry looking big picture as in we are heading north, north is 12. And then you would have bradley crews saying we made a left onto this street and are now facing west, but noon is still my vehicles hull. So that being said the infantry calls armor for support saying contact 2 o'clock 300 meters, meaning northwestish 300 meters, and armor crews that made a left looking for targets northeastish. I still believe that the opord should specify a true compass reading for noon.

With that statement you just confirmed what I thought. You have not served, other than maybe make believe in Call of Duty or paintball. NO ONE in the military refers to the 12 o'clock position as "noon". Plus we NEVER said "northwestish" it was northwestardly direction, etc..

Direction of travel is always 12 o'clock. Doesn't matter if you are traveling south, north, east,or west. Even if you turn off while deploying the direction of original travel is the 12 position. You may be facing the 9 o'clock position but your right is still the 12 and your left the 6. Exception is if you say "I am taking fire from my 6, the small green building behind Charger 23". I have done this, deployed to engage contact. Have a sighting and called it out, " we have 6 dismounts at the 9 o'clock, they just moved into the 2 story building about 150 meters from MSR, the building with the green shutters on the 2nd floor just north of the side street". Or "we got dismounts at the 11 o'clock with small arms and 1 RPG, they are hiding behind the concrete wall about 300 meters out, they are firing and then ducking back behind the wall." If you are spread out over a large area to clear it out it was, " we have contact to the east north east of my position, the ditch about 500 meters out on the other side of the guard rail". To show location it was also common to mark the target with fire, that is what tracers were designed for.

[backer54]

Assassin42, on 05 January 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

Quote

I know I started this post about the woods, and not urban fighting, but a point of confusion that came up even in those occupations was direction of travel Vs. direction of tank hull. You would have infantry looking big picture as in we are heading north, north is 12. And then you would have bradley crews saying we made a left onto this street and are now facing west, but noon is still my vehicles hull. So that being said the infantry calls armor for support saying contact 2 o'clock 300 meters, meaning northwestish 300 meters, and armor crews that made a left looking for targets northeastish. I still believe that the opord should specify a true compass reading for noon.

With that statement you just confirmed what I thought. You have not served, other than maybe make believe in Call of Duty or paintball. NO ONE in the military refers to the 12 o'clock position as "noon". Plus we NEVER said "northwestish" it was northwestardly direction, etc..

Direction of travel is always 12 o'clock. Doesn't matter if you are traveling south, north, east,or west. Even if you turn off while deploying the direction of original travel is the 12 position. You may be facing the 9 o'clock position but your right is still the 12 and your left the 6. Exception is if you say "I am taking fire from my 6, the small green building behind Charger 23". I have done this, deployed to engage contact. Have a sighting and called it out, " we have 6 dismounts at the 9 o'clock, they just moved into the 2 story building about 150 meters from MSR, the building with the green shutters on the 2nd floor just north of the side street". Or "we got dismounts at the 11 o'clock with small arms and 1 RPG, they are hiding behind the concrete wall about 300 meters out, they are firing and then ducking back behind the wall." If you are spread out over a large area to clear it out it was, " we have contact to the east north east of my position, the ditch about 500 meters out on the other side of the guard rail". To show location it was also common to mark the target with fire, that is what tracers were designed for.

You say I never served because I refer to 12 as noon. I say you never served because you mention guard rails in urban combat in Iraq. There are no guard rails on MSRs in Baghdad seeing as how the army ripped them all out along with billboards do to EFPs and such. RPGs?, really? What kind, 7,16, or 22? We found crosscuts cut in the road covered with 7.62x54r more than RPGs, or EFPs dug in and facing up.

backer54, on 06 January 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Assassin42, on 05 January 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

Quote

I know I started this post about the woods, and not urban fighting, but a point of confusion that came up even in those occupations was direction of travel Vs. direction of tank hull. You would have infantry looking big picture as in we are heading north, north is 12. And then you would have bradley crews saying we made a left onto this street and are now facing west, but noon is still my vehicles hull. So that being said the infantry calls armor for support saying contact 2 o'clock 300 meters, meaning northwestish 300 meters, and armor crews that made a left looking for targets northeastish. I still believe that the opord should specify a true compass reading for noon.

With that statement you just confirmed what I thought. You have not served, other than maybe make believe in Call of Duty or paintball. NO ONE in the military refers to the 12 o'clock position as "noon". Plus we NEVER said "northwestish" it was northwestardly direction, etc..

Direction of travel is always 12 o'clock. Doesn't matter if you are traveling south, north, east,or west. Even if you turn off while deploying the direction of original travel is the 12 position. You may be facing the 9 o'clock position but your right is still the 12 and your left the 6. Exception is if you say "I am taking fire from my 6, the small green building behind Charger 23". I have done this, deployed to engage contact. Have a sighting and called it out, " we have 6 dismounts at the 9 o'clock, they just moved into the 2 story building about 150 meters from MSR, the building with the green shutters on the 2nd floor just north of the side street". Or "we got dismounts at the 11 o'clock with small arms and 1 RPG, they are hiding behind the concrete wall about 300 meters out, they are firing and then ducking back behind the wall." If you are spread out over a large area to clear it out it was, " we have contact to the east north east of my position, the ditch about 500 meters out on the other side of the guard rail". To show location it was also common to mark the target with fire, that is what tracers were designed for.

You say I never served because I refer to 12 as noon. I say you never served because you mention guard rails in urban combat in Iraq. There are no guard rails on MSRs in Baghdad seeing as how the army ripped them all out along with billboards do to EFPs and such. RPGs?, really? What kind, 7,16, or 22? We found crosscuts cut in the road covered with 7.62x54r more than RPGs, or EFPs dug in and facing up.

You called enemy's dismounts? We are dismounts. Military aged males are bad guys.

Assassin42, on 05 January 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

Quote

I know I started this post about the woods, and not urban fighting, but a point of confusion that came up even in those occupations was direction of travel Vs. direction of tank hull. You would have infantry looking big picture as in we are heading north, north is 12. And then you would have bradley crews saying we made a left onto this street and are now facing west, but noon is still my vehicles hull. So that being said the infantry calls armor for support saying contact 2 o'clock 300 meters, meaning northwestish 300 meters, and armor crews that made a left looking for targets northeastish. I still believe that the opord should specify a true compass reading for noon.

With that statement you just confirmed what I thought. You have not served, other than maybe make believe in Call of Duty or paintball. NO ONE in the military refers to the 12 o'clock position as "noon". Plus we NEVER said "northwestish" it was northwestardly direction, etc..

Direction of travel is always 12 o'clock. Doesn't matter if you are traveling south, north, east,or west. Even if you turn off while deploying the direction of original travel is the 12 position. You may be facing the 9 o'clock position but your right is still the 12 and your left the 6. Exception is if you say "I am taking fire from my 6, the small green building behind Charger 23". I have done this, deployed to engage contact. Have a sighting and called it out, " we have 6 dismounts at the 9 o'clock, they just moved into the 2 story building about 150 meters from MSR, the building with the green shutters on the 2nd floor just north of the side street". Or "we got dismounts at the 11 o'clock with small arms and 1 RPG, they are hiding behind the concrete wall about 300 meters out, they are firing and then ducking back behind the wall." If you are spread out over a large area to clear it out it was, " we have contact to the east north east of my position, the ditch about 500 meters out on the other side of the guard rail". To show location it was also common to mark the target with fire, that is what tracers were designed for.

Ya know what fuck you in the mouth. Give me your email address. What's your AKO? You want to see proof I served? Pictures of coins? My DD-214? You want a picture of me cleaning brains out of a truck? You want a pic of the wound I got from a home made mine that poked a hole in me? Do you want a copy of the memorandum that says no purple heart for me since A door hinge was not shot from a weapon? I'm not giving some internet pissant my DD-214. I'll give you pictures though. What was your MOS at entry and ETS? I entered the force a 19D and ETSed a 18B. Perhaps Backer 54 was the call sign for O.D.A. 054 10th SFG command joint special operations task force A.P. You know what I bet your a full retard E5 that got beat up a lot in high school. They punched you in the balls a lot didn't they? You couldn't get in the E4 mafia because you were too fat right? But hey man its OK, you can get a job doing PMCS on 1151s when real soldiers aren't using them.

[Assassin42]

I was 12B at start and finished as 21B, because some retard at DA decided to redo the engineer MOSs to line us all up with our officers who were 21 series. I was heavy mech, so all troops on the ground were dismounts. Those guard rails were pulled by our guys. Who were conducting a thing called Route Clearance. I got out after a few too many knee injuries over the years, and surgery on my knee at the VA. Try running up and down mountains in the ROK for a few years (with and without a Ruck) and see if you come out without a few injuries. My all time favorite injury was when I snapped a bone in my foot running up a mountain with a 50lb ruck and still humped it back to camp.

What did you do look all that stuff up on the internet to sound believable? I am always amazed on the number of former SF on the internet. It's almost like the number of state wrestling champs that are in your unit during Basic.

[backer54]

Assassin42, on 07 January 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

I was 12B at start and finished as 21B, because some retard at DA decided to redo the engineer MOSs to line us all up with our officers who were 21 series. I was heavy mech, so all troops on the ground were dismounts. Those guard rails were pulled by our guys. Who were conducting a thing called Route Clearance. I got out after a few too many knee injuries over the years, and surgery on my knee at the VA. Try running up and down mountains in the ROK for a few years (with and without a Ruck) and see if you come out without a few injuries. My all time favorite injury was when I snapped a bone in my foot running up a mountain with a 50lb ruck and still humped it back to camp.

What did you do look all that stuff up on the internet to sound believable? I am always amazed on the number of former SF on the internet. It's almost like the number of state wrestling champs that are in your unit during Basic.

Are you sure you guys pulled all the guard rails? I seem to remember something about Rt. Husky and some charlie 1/26 guys? paratrooper types maybe? 82nd by chance, around june, 2007? Something also comes to mind of us perhaps doing some overwatch for our local and beloved Iraqi terro-uh-cough police watching some TCN guys ripping out some shit on senators? I tried running up and down mountains with koreans(whoo Ho!-rea) for exactly one year. That shits dumb, also family not coming with is dumb too. I looked it all up on google, only place I know you can find a SF type printable pdf dd-214. I hereby christen you as a 7th year 18F, since you wanna be a smarty pants. More of a "look pretty pictures" than "Guns go bang! derp...?" MOS. Knees ain't so bad after a Halo med check, what with the proctology exam and what not...

[homelitexl]

ill stick to my nazi super science its for when regular old evil sicience isnt good enough besides that when i get blown up proffesur hans will just build me a new body out of old panzer parts and a opal halftrack thats laying around so there

[johnny1shot]

i always expected

"holy shit there's a fucking shitload of zombies coming from over there"

would work