[fg42lol]

Wally-World can suck a... well... yeah.

I haven't got much sympathy for super-stores being stolen from, especially walmart. considering how, well, you know - they steal from their employees, they are like the jackal of the business world, if you think about it; they can afford to undercut prices so when a walmart invades a small town, it sucks the life right out of the community. there was a point in time where retail wasn't a minimum wage affair, believe it or not.

[mattifikation]

I wish I still made as much as I did working at Wal-Mart. Then again, I was there for 6 years to get to the point where I was making that much.

[Boomstick Mike]

fg42lol, on 30 June 2011 - 11:41 AM, said:

Wally-World can suck a... well... yeah.

I haven't got much sympathy for super-stores being stolen from, especially walmart. considering how, well, you know - they steal from their employees, they are like the jackal of the business world, if you think about it; they can afford to undercut prices so when a walmart invades a small town, it sucks the life right out of the community. there was a point in time where retail wasn't a minimum wage affair, believe it or not.

That is a poor and unhealthy outlook. Any store being stolen from is wrong. Any place. With your morale it would be peachy to rob the most wealthy person's house in your neighborhood, especially if he mistreats his family. We live in a capitalist society and in the confines of those rules Sam Walton created a business model never before contrived and blew everyone out the water. They have mistreated their employees but it isn't much different than the way so many other companies compensate their employees. Walmart just got so huge that enough people could wave their arms for attention and have someone notice. Main Street businesses going under is sad for every town's people, economy, atmosphere, traditions, etc. but that is a negative outcome of the rules of capitalism in this specific case not the fault of a legally designed business just coming up with the new brightest way to get your dollar.

[fg42lol]

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That is a poor and unhealthy outlook. Any store being stolen from is wrong.

How is that an unhealthy outlook?

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With your morale it would be peachy to rob the most wealthy person's house in your neighborhood, especially if he mistreats his family.

Please don't go there, Mike. Chances are, Rich guy worked to get to where he is. And Rich guy gets raked over the coals by the government, but Wally-world gets special treatment? for that matter, do you even know where the "Top 10% Income Bracket" Begins?

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We live in a capitalist society and in the confines of those rules Sam Walton created a business model never before contrived and blew everyone out the water.

If we live in a capitalist society, than why is the government subsidizing wally-world construction? Why would local governments toss tax payer funded niceties to that company. and beyond that (For the sake of argument); How can we be a capitalist society, if the federal reserve bank note is created out of debt? Capital, Capital Gain, Debt, Capital Debt? Oxymoron?

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They have mistreated their employees but it isn't much different than the way so many other companies compensate their employees. Walmart just got so huge that enough people could wave their arms for attention and have someone notice. Main Street businesses going under is sad for every town's people, economy, atmosphere, traditions, etc. but that is a negative outcome of the rules of capitalism in this specific case not the fault of a legally designed business just coming up with the new brightest way to get your dollar.

They fire their employees over talk of unionization, they encourage their employees to use safety-net programs instead of providing health care. Their business model is insidious.

Conclusion - I see the establishment as a cancer, rather than a business.

[Underdude]

Tell us how you really feel fg.
You don't mind crime done against somebody or something you don't like?
I see maybe letting some things go, but if everybody did that nobody would be safe. Trinkets off the shelves lead to other things. Why not take the registers instead? Filled with cash going to the evil company. Is that acceptable? If you don't like the management, find the office and stomp his guts out.
When I was doing LP I had my own guidelines. Dollar amount was one, attitude was by far the most important. If I catch somebody and find a wad of cash on them....Bingo, call the law anddont you come back. Come in flat broke with pockets sewn inside your coat... Gotcha, I go for a burglery charge because of intent. I had part of my ear sewn back on for a dog collar and leash. I went to ER, he went to prison. Fair trade? For me YES.

[CAVU45]

fg42lol, on 30 June 2011 - 11:41 AM, said:

Wally-World can suck a... well... yeah.

I haven't got much sympathy for super-stores being stolen from, especially walmart. considering how, well, you know - they steal from their employees, they are like the jackal of the business world, if you think about it; they can afford to undercut prices so when a walmart invades a small town, it sucks the life right out of the community. there was a point in time where retail wasn't a minimum wage affair, believe it or not.

And how does Wal Mart steal from its employees? No one is forced to work there. It's a voluntary arrangement. If the job sucks, move on. Now when was that point in time when retail was anything but a minimum wage affair?

Boomstick Mike, on 30 June 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

That is a poor and unhealthy outlook.

fg42lol, on 30 June 2011 - 01:12 PM, said:

How is that an unhealthy outlook?

I think that was already explained, but we'll try again. Would it be okay for someone not as well off to steal from you? You are better off than they are. Essentially that's what you're saying.

fg42lol, on 30 June 2011 - 01:12 PM, said:

If we live in a capitalist society, than why is the government subsidizing wally-world construction? Why would local governments toss tax payer funded niceties to that company. and beyond that (For the sake of argument); How can we be a capitalist society, if the federal reserve bank note is created out of debt? Capital, Capital Gain, Debt, Capital Debt? Oxymoron?

You act as if Wal Mart is the only company that gets some sort of consideration fromt he government. How about GE which paid zero in taxes last year?

fg42lol, on 30 June 2011 - 01:12 PM, said:

They fire their employees over talk of unionization, they encourage their employees to use safety-net programs instead of providing health care. Their business model is insidious.

So? Wal Mart isn't the first company to do that and certainly wouldn't be the last. Seeing what unions have done to far too many companies, I don't blame them a bit.

[Boomstick Mike]

You are preaching to the choir on most parts. Also in a capitalistic society there is no To big to fail clauses or redos for corrupt, vampiric financial institutions that destroy a culture and classes purposefully so the executives can buy that third mega-yacht. I wasn't trying to endorse Walmart, I was ultimately trying to say that 2 wrongs don't make a right. I'm sure that if you have or do have children you taught them that stealing was wrong and believe it as fact for yourself. Hopefully you did, because it isn't your property that you bought with money that you worked for and got raked over the coals by the government for. Also the justice system and almost all religions consider it wrong and a crime worthy of punishment and restitution. So if one teaches and personally believes that stealing is morally wrong or against the law and civilized society, then to endorse or condone the crime because one hates a cancerous business or person is a coruption of that person's value system. That action is against one's psychological and psychosocial character and moral normalcy. This is why I said poor and unhealthy outlook. People change their moral views during life, but it can be for good or bad socially and mentally. We will all have large moral and character shifts during a zombie apocalyse. It will guide our path and our decisons and the way we greet and interact with others. Give it a year and answer these same basic questions with appliable needed adjustments like phones and their will be tons of changes. But different people will change their moral scales at different rates and to the opposite ends of good and bad personality traits.

[mattifikation]

I should probably point out that Wal-Mart deducts a lot of the losses due to theft from the employee's bonus checks, rather than from their own bottom line.

[fg42lol]

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And how does Wal Mart steal from its employees? No one is forced to work there. It's a voluntary arrangement. If the job sucks, move on. Now when was that point in time when retail was anything but a minimum wage affair?

Small things, like hours. Isn't free labor the same as theft?

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I think that was already explained, but we'll try again. Would it be okay for someone not as well off to steal from you? You are better off than they are. Essentially that's what you're saying.

Once more, you're trying to personify a corporation. Do you think those sammiches belong to any one person?

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You act as if Wal Mart is the only company that gets some sort of consideration from the government. How about GE which paid zero in taxes last year?

Does that make it right?

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So? Wal Mart isn't the first company to do that and certainly wouldn't be the last. Seeing what unions have done to far too many companies, I don't blame them a bit.

So, Pretty much what you're saying is - Those wal-mart employees have no right to job benefits and a fair work environment? I agree with you to an extent. Unions are capable of BS; but who do you turn to when you get screwed by your employer? the tripple B?

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Tell us how you really feel fg.
You don't mind crime done against somebody or something you don't like?
I see maybe letting some things go, but if everybody did that nobody would be safe. Trinkets off the shelves lead to other things. Why not take the registers instead? Filled with cash going to the evil company. Is that acceptable? If you don't like the management, find the office and stomp his guts out.
When I was doing LP I had my own guidelines. Dollar amount was one, attitude was by far the most important. If I catch somebody and find a wad of cash on them....Bingo, call the law anddont you come back. Come in flat broke with pockets sewn inside your coat... Gotcha, I go for a burglery charge because of intent. I had part of my ear sewn back on for a dog collar and leash. I went to ER, he went to prison. Fair trade? For me YES.

There is no Somebody, and you bet your ass I'll turn a blind eye. I have my personal reasons for my distaste for walmart.

You're promoting acts of personal violence due to "Not liking" someone. I don't think that's a proper response to "Not liking" Someone. Jack Henry Abbot worded it best. I don't have respect for a man who can bring physical harm or kill another man. I have respect for the integrity of a man. my views on corporate america might oppose those of the law and religion, but that's none of my concern. I value my freedom, so I will play ball- but I will not pretend to like the wally-world god machine, and I will not stop someone from stealing their sammiches.

Does that make me a bad person?

[Underdude]

Not at all FG. I'm kinda sweet on you. I started this thread for one reason........
Morality. It's a small part but it can be telling. You hate wal-mart...I get it.
What if it's another company? Then you'll say something? I do condone violence for certain things, that's all most people know. Right or wrong. I don't look at what is being stolen or who it's stolen from, only the act. I've stopped hundreds of people. All I hear are excuses.
"Why did you steal 4 packs of new york strip?"
I'm broke and I can sell them.
"Alright, why did you remove them from the packages and cover them with plastic wrap? Who will buy them now?"
Or....
"why did you steal 2 half gallon bottles of booze?"
I'm thirsty.
See what I'm getting at here?
If you let it go, it will evolve into something much worse. That's why I was so aggressive about it. On the job I was cut 3 times and had a gun pulled on me a dozen times.
My claim to fame was this...
Before my shift even started one day, a guy cruised the med aisle and swept an armful of stuff into his coat. I followed him off the premises (a big no-no) to a liquor store where he sells them, didn't touch or threaten him and got him to follow me back for the report. He was crying by the time we got back.
He had 50,000 in burglery warrants already. It snowballs....

I won't stand by and let things happen. To me or anybody else in my presence. Family, friends, or strangers. I have the scars to remind me of it.

[rowdyrugby]

Underdude, on 30 June 2011 - 02:53 AM, said:

Rowdy, that's the problem here. People should be passive? No Way.
Citizens are told this, and criminals know nobody would fight back or get involved helping strangers.
I understand you but don't buy it. That won't stop or reduce crime.
BUT......If people stood up for themselves and for others the rate would drop. If they know/think they're in for a fight for it, they'll move on. Don't be the prey, make them the prey.

I agree but disagree.

[Underdude]

Fair enough.

[Boomstick Mike]

I understand now and I find it sad and odd for a likely bright person to have your views. You have rationalized crime as no-crime or ok-crime due to your Hate. That has happened before; luckily you and your mentality don't have executive or military power. Maybe rash, but crimes that are ignored compound and increase in frequency and intensity. But if you believe it is ok then that is your right, so start "borrowing" sandwiches and if you get caught just expain your view. I'm sure the police will be swayed to your rational view on crime vs hate. They may even go back with you for some "free" doughnuts.

[mattifikation]

You're mad about Wal-Mart stealing from employees, but like I said, if somebody steals from Wal-Mart the cost comes out of the employees' bonus checks. If you let the thief go, you're letting him steal from the employees. Not that it really matters, Wal-Mart won't do eff all about theft unless management or loss prevention directly witnesses the entire theft.

I'm reminded of the scene in Spider-Man where Peter Parker allows a robber to escape because it wasn't his problem, and he had a beef with the guy who was getting robbed, and minutes later the robber shot Peter's uncle and stole his car. Criminal is criminal, just because you don't like the victim today doesn't mean the victim tomorrow won't be somebody you care about.

[Underdude]

True matt it has to be witnessed, and for us we weren't allowed to approach if they left our vision at any time. But we knew what happened, we have to use our head. Embarrassing the person works quite well.
You don't have to write a report or make an arrest, but they won't leave with the loot. Guys in my group and area averaged 3 lawsuits per year, we never lost one.

[CAVU45]

fg42lol, on 30 June 2011 - 04:27 PM, said:

Small things, like hours. Isn't free labor the same as theft?

And hasn't Wal Mart had to pay for those indiscretions? Sp how is the corporation any different from the individual?

fg42lol, on 30 June 2011 - 04:27 PM, said:

Once more, you're trying to personify a corporation. Do you think those sammiches belong to any one person?

They belong to the people who own the corporation, they belong to the employees who work for it. The losses from those thefts is passed on to the employees and to the customers. So enough with this "victimless crime" bull. Theft is theft, whether it's stealing from an individual or a corporation. It's simply wrong. Surely if you can justify stealing from a business I can justify stealing from you.

fg42lol, on 30 June 2011 - 04:27 PM, said:

So, Pretty much what you're saying is - Those wal-mart employees have no right to job benefits and a fair work environment? I agree with you to an extent. Unions are capable of BS; but who do you turn to when you get screwed by your employer? the tripple B?

Again, an employee makes a voluntary contract with the employer for a set wage and benefits in return for a set days work. Either can renegotiate the contract at any time and if they can't come to terms disolve the contract and each go his own way.

[fg42lol]

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And hasn't Wal Mart had to pay for those indiscretions? Sp how is the corporation any different from the individual?

No, Wal Mart has NOT paid for those indiscretions, because it's still happening. As far as the difference between a corporation and an individual, Firstly you could compare definitions.
cor‧po‧ra‧tion
1 a big company, or a group of companies acting together as a single organization
individual
1 a person, considered separately from the rest of the group or society that they live in:
2 a person of a particular kind, especially one who is unusual in some way

The ETHICAL implications are very different. The machine is insidious. yes, Insidious
in‧sid‧i‧ous
an insidious change or problem spreads gradually without being noticed, and causes serious harm

What happens when business is reduced to a few outlets? What do we call that? An Oligopoly

ol‧i‧gop‧o‧ly
the control of all or most of a business activity by very few companies, so that other organizations cannot easily compete with them

What happens when that oligopoly is reduced to one singular company, the dominant company? What do you get?

mo‧nop‧o‧ly
1 if a company or government has a monopoly of a business or political activity, it has complete control of it so that other organizations cannot compete with it

Now, if one company controls retail, and infrastructure to support it, maybe not own, but contract - what will
A) Happen to the market
and
B) Happen when the bubble pops?

Removing competition screws everybody, friends.

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They belong to the people who own the corporation, they belong to the employees who work for it. The losses from those thefts is passed on to the employees and to the customers. So enough with this "victimless crime" bull. Theft is theft, whether it's stealing from an individual or a corporation. It's simply wrong. Surely if you can justify stealing from a business I can justify stealing from you.

You mean the shareholders? Who buys stock in Wal Mart anyway?

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Again, an employee makes a voluntary contract with the employer for a set wage and benefits in return for a set days work. Either can renegotiate the contract at any time and if they can't come to terms disolve the contract and each go his own way.

Well, What would you suggest? Work at wal mart, or not work period? Maybe suck off of the hind tit for 99 weeks? Unionization is an employee movement, not an employer movement, and it also happens to be an employee right. yes, unionization is a right, Covered by the National Labor Relations Act. Firing someone for conspiracy to unionize is illegal.

[Boomstick Mike]

Honestly, a very good rebuttal fg although you lost a few points for pomposity. I could just feel the smug look on your face while you were typing with one-finger and smashing down hard on each key, especially when breaking words into syllables for our dumb asses. Just joking, kinda. 2 questions from way back if you have time. 1 - Is stealing ethical? 2 - Is stealing a crime?

[zbuddy]

I think that stealing IS a crime, pretty cut and dry. Taking something that is not yours, regardless of the purpose, should be considered a crime in most cultures. However, the ethics of it is relative. Would I steal to ensure the livelihood of my family or friends, would you? If you're stealing just because you're a cheap ass or have some sort of disorder where you get your rocks off jacking people then I think it is pretty clear that it is UNETHICAL. But the inverse may also be true.

[Underdude]

Yo boom,

FG has been here awhile. He believes what he believes.
Don't toss turds at him.
Pompous?
And I doubt he's slamming keys.

Zbuddy, there's another type of thief we have dealt with......
True cleptos. One I stopped 3 times, he did a little time for it.
He came in one of our stores 2 days after his release, looked directly at me and stuffed cheese and bologna in his pants. That's a sickness.