[Underdude]

detpat, on 03 June 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

didn't they do an Izzy HB?

That might be what I'm thinking of. Large wood furniture on it?

[detpat]

yup, stepped down handguards. nice rifle! i had an imbel several years ago and traded it off because i couldn't afford to feed it in the manner it had become accustomed to.

[Underdude]

Along the same lines.......a friend has Rem. 700 in 300 Ultra Mag. Every shot he made we would say "5 bucks, 10 bucks, 15..."
He doesn't shoot it much these days.

[50 cal]

Bob, on 03 June 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

Whats the deal with the ones at Classic Arms?
Are they crap?

http://www.classicarms.us/index.htm

Built on a G1 kit. No, those are very good kits. Depends on who built them though. If they are Century builds, they can be a crap shoot. A really good one, or will need to be completely gone through by someone that knows FALs to make it run correctly. A guy I work with bought a Century built FAL from another guy. The first guy had nothing but problems with it. Barrel over torqued, wrong headspace.
I disassembled it and started from scratch. A few hours of labor and all was good to go. My co-worker loves it now. I should have tried to buy it from him. But I already have 2 FALs.

[McNally]

The 'one' rifle for me is going to be an AR. I love 'em. You can't beat the availability and adaptability.
Now, the 5.56 is a smaller round, but you can load up an AR exactly how you want it, all the way up to the .50 Beowulf.
I remember reading about a round, can't remember the exact specs, but it was basically a 5.56 case necked up to a 6mm bullet. Gave a little more 'oomph' to the AR using the same magazines and most other components. I got real excited about its potential but haven't heard much about it since. Ah well.
So yup; give me an 18 inch barreled AR, and 1-4x zoom scope, and I'll feel confident all through my days.

On another note, you also won't go wrong with a solid bolt-action .308 or 30.06

[mattifikation]

For me, it's going to be an AK. I hope to join the AR crowd someday but I have to prioritize my spending. I have an AK and it will do the job.

[nleksan]

Assuming we're talking about ranges under 300 yards, and an urban/suburban environment, I would no doubt go with the rifle I've had the most experience with, an HK416, although I'd have to go with the 10.4" barrel as opposed to the 14.5" that I've actually owned. As easy as it is to swap out the barrels on these rifles, I'd no doubt like to carry a 14.5 or 16.5 inch barrel with me, but the 10.4" barrel makes the weapon much quicker to get on-target IME, as well as having more than enough range for an urban or suburban environment. I do wish the weapon was available in 6.8mm, but in a ZPAW, there's no doubt that 5.56 would be much, much more common.

My Number One Go-To "Long-Arm"
Rifle: H&K HK416 D10RS 5.56mm
As far as "setup" is concerned, I'd probably stick with what I know:
- SureFire M900V 150lumen LED weaponlight/vertical foregrip (I personally owned the M900A, but the LED "V" version has 10x the battery life... better when batteries are scarce, although you are down to 150lumen from 225)
- EOTech Model 553 Holographic Weapons Sight (1100hrs continuous operation at highest brightness before needing new batteries) with an L3 G23.FTS (flip-to-side) 3x magnifier (the G23 offers an increase in range if needed while still allowing for both eyes to be open, and takes 1-2sec to move out of the way while transitioning indoors)
- MagPul UBR Stock - Utility/Battle-Rifle (the 7-position adjustability along with the small storage area in the back, say for extra batteries for lights/sights, makes it a win-win for me)
- Advanced Armaments (AAC) M4-2000 Sound Suppressor (not just for use with subsonic rounds, but so that I can fire anytime needed, inside or out, without hearing protection; also, it can easily transition to other 5.56 weapons)
- Insight Technologies AN/PEQ 2A Visible/Infrared Laser Pointer and IR Illuminator (the IR ability is fantastic if I would be able to get my hands on a set of high-end military NVG's)
- 12x MagPul EMAG MagLevel 30rd 5.56x45 Polymer Magazines with PMAG/EMAG Ranger Plates installed (open slit on side makes it easy to visually estimate how many rounds remain, while the ranger plates make reloading much faster)
- Troy Front and Rear Low-Profile Folding Battle Sights (back-up iron sights designed around the HK416 and EOTech sights; fold out of the way when not in use, but a simple button push pops them up; good for when the world does eventually run out of batteries)
- MagPul Enhanced Aluminum Trigger Guard (for use with full-fingered gloves and/or cold weather operation)



As far as distances 500m and beyond, such as rooftop sharpshooting in an urban environment, providing precision cover fire for teammates, or any other situation that would require a longer barrel, a heavier caliber, and a more stable platform, I'd no doubt go with a modified M14. Although I loved my L96 in .338 lapua magnum, the M14 uses the much more easily found .308 Winchester, and fires semi-auto as opposed to the bolt-action L96, making follow-up shots much easier and that is pretty much the point of an urban "precision rifle" compared to a "sniper rifle", I do believe. Wouldn't make much in the way of modifications, as it's pretty well loaded from the factory.
Rifle: Smith Enterprises M14 SDM 18" Chrome-Moly Barrel in 7.62mm
Setup:
- SEI Quad-Rail MIL STD-1913 System
- Sage International Modular Collapsing Stock w/ "Sniper-style" Pistol Grip
- Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x50 LR/T M1 Mil-Dot Scope with the Barrett Optical Ranging System integrated ballistic computer (automatically calculates bullet drop based on temperature/humidity/wind speed and direction/etc, making varying-ranged shots incredibly quick and easy)
- Harris Compact Folding Spring-Loaded Bipod
- SureFire M600C LED "Scout" Weaponlight
- MagPul Folding Vertical Foregrip
- SEI M14DC Sound Suppressor with quick-detach and Vortex Flash Hider
- MagPul PMAG 20rd Polymer Magazines with Ranger Plates

(It would look something like this, although with a different scope/weaponlight/foregrip/magazine: http://www.smithente...s/m14se.008.jpg )

[hotlead]

nleksan, on 28 June 2011 - 05:00 PM, said:

Assuming we're talking about ranges under 300 yards, and an urban/suburban environment, I would no doubt go with the rifle I've had the most experience with, an HK416, although I'd have to go with the 10.4" barrel as opposed to the 14.5" that I've actually owned. As easy as it is to swap out the barrels on these rifles, I'd no doubt like to carry a 14.5 or 16.5 inch barrel with me, but the 10.4" barrel makes the weapon much quicker to get on-target IME, as well as having more than enough range for an urban or suburban environment. I do wish the weapon was available in 6.8mm, but in a ZPAW, there's no doubt that 5.56 would be much, much more common.

My Number One Go-To "Long-Arm"
Rifle: H&K HK416 D10RS 5.56mm
As far as "setup" is concerned, I'd probably stick with what I know:
- SureFire M900V 150lumen LED weaponlight/vertical foregrip (I personally owned the M900A, but the LED "V" version has 10x the battery life... better when batteries are scarce, although you are down to 150lumen from 225)
- EOTech Model 553 Holographic Weapons Sight (1100hrs continuous operation at highest brightness before needing new batteries) with an L3 G23.FTS (flip-to-side) 3x magnifier (the G23 offers an increase in range if needed while still allowing for both eyes to be open, and takes 1-2sec to move out of the way while transitioning indoors)
- MagPul UBR Stock - Utility/Battle-Rifle (the 7-position adjustability along with the small storage area in the back, say for extra batteries for lights/sights, makes it a win-win for me)
- Advanced Armaments (AAC) M4-2000 Sound Suppressor (not just for use with subsonic rounds, but so that I can fire anytime needed, inside or out, without hearing protection; also, it can easily transition to other 5.56 weapons)
- Insight Technologies AN/PEQ 2A Visible/Infrared Laser Pointer and IR Illuminator (the IR ability is fantastic if I would be able to get my hands on a set of high-end military NVG's)
- 12x MagPul EMAG MagLevel 30rd 5.56x45 Polymer Magazines with PMAG/EMAG Ranger Plates installed (open slit on side makes it easy to visually estimate how many rounds remain, while the ranger plates make reloading much faster)
- Troy Front and Rear Low-Profile Folding Battle Sights (back-up iron sights designed around the HK416 and EOTech sights; fold out of the way when not in use, but a simple button push pops them up; good for when the world does eventually run out of batteries)
- MagPul Enhanced Aluminum Trigger Guard (for use with full-fingered gloves and/or cold weather operation)

Sounds expensive.

Do the Troy BUIS cowitness with the other stuff you have on top?

nleksan, on 28 June 2011 - 05:00 PM, said:

As far as distances 500m and beyond, such as rooftop sharpshooting in an urban environment, providing precision cover fire for teammates, or any other situation that would require a longer barrel, a heavier caliber, and a more stable platform, I'd no doubt go with a modified M14. Although I loved my L96 in .338 lapua magnum, the M14 uses the much more easily found .308 Winchester, and fires semi-auto as opposed to the bolt-action L96, making follow-up shots much easier and that is pretty much the point of an urban "precision rifle" compared to a "sniper rifle", I do believe. Wouldn't make much in the way of modifications, as it's pretty well loaded from the factory.
Rifle: Smith Enterprises M14 SDM 18" Chrome-Moly Barrel in 7.62mm
Setup:
- SEI Quad-Rail MIL STD-1913 System
- Sage International Modular Collapsing Stock w/ "Sniper-style" Pistol Grip
- Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x50 LR/T M1 Mil-Dot Scope with the Barrett Optical Ranging System integrated ballistic computer (automatically calculates bullet drop based on temperature/humidity/wind speed and direction/etc, making varying-ranged shots incredibly quick and easy)
- Harris Compact Folding Spring-Loaded Bipod
- SureFire M600C LED "Scout" Weaponlight
- MagPul Folding Vertical Foregrip
- SEI M14DC Sound Suppressor with quick-detach and Vortex Flash Hider
- MagPul PMAG 20rd Polymer Magazines with Ranger Plates

(It would look something like this, although with a different scope/weaponlight/foregrip/magazine: http://www.smithente...s/m14se.008.jpg )

Why a weapon light and VFG on a DMR? seems to me like they'd be in the way, if not a liability.

Where did you find M-14 PMAGs? Magpul has AR and M-110 PMAGs out, but I've never heard of any available for the M-14.

[CAVU45]

hotlead, on 28 June 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

Sounds expensive.

Do the Troy BUIS cowitness with the other stuff you have on top?





Why a weapon light and VFG on a DMR? seems to me like they'd be in the way, if not a liability.

Where did you find M-14 PMAGs? Magpul has AR and M-110 PMAGs out, but I've never heard of any available for the M-14.

Good questions. I zoned out after reading for a minute or two. Kinda reads like a mall ninjas wet dream. I can see no reason for a weapon light and the VFG would most definately be in the way of the bipod and absolutely unnecesary on such a rifle.

[nleksan]

CAVU45, on 28 June 2011 - 07:59 PM, said:

Good questions. I zoned out after reading for a minute or two. Kinda reads like a mall ninjas wet dream. I can see no reason for a weapon light and the VFG would most definately be in the way of the bipod and absolutely unnecesary on such a rifle.

The reason I decided to throw a VFG on my theoretical "one rifle" would be because it's just that, one rifle that would have to be able to serve multiple purposes. The reason I'd go for a folding foregrip is because if I were to be using the bipod, it would be folded out of the way, and should I need the grip, the bipod would be folded forward and out of the way. The same principle applies to the light; while it's not meant to be a very mobile weapon, the last thing I'd want in a ZPAW is to be stuck in the dark with no way to illuminate what's in front of me. It's purpose wouldn't be for target acquisition, but rather for navigation while moving from spot to spot. When carrying an 18-20lb DMR in the dark, the last thing I'd want to have to do is manage a flashlight in one of the same hands that's carrying the weapon. I perhaps should have clarified this. Also, it's my opinion that what is useful/practical in a modern human armed conflict does not necessarily correlate with what would be useful/practical while fighting off hordes of the undead.

Ideally, I wouldn't be limited to one weapon and would have a sidearm, or in the case of a DMR a PDW or something similar, such as an MP7 or P90 to handle anything that got in close, negating the need for a light or VFG.

hotlead, on 28 June 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

Sounds expensive.

Do the Troy BUIS cowitness with the other stuff you have on top?

Why a weapon light and VFG on a DMR? seems to me like they'd be in the way, if not a liability.

Where did you find M-14 PMAGs? Magpul has AR and M-110 PMAGs out, but I've never heard of any available for the M-14.

Refer to my above post about the DMR. And you're correct, I was wrong about the MagPul PMAGs. I was trying to do this from memory, and misspoke. With a weapon like a DMR where the engagement zone is ideally a couple hundred yards, quick-change magazines aren't exactly a high priority, especially not as much as they are on something like a 10" HK416.

In regards to the Troy BUIS, it is my understanding that they co-witness assuming the EOTech isn't sitting on a raised mount, but I personally used standard-height GG&G BUIS on my personal weapon. Seeing as my EOTech never once failed me or ran out of juice (I sold the weapon before the original batteries even died... about 600hrs of use), the BUIS were kept folded down 99.9% of the time. The reason I picked the Troy sights for my "ideal one rifle" is because we used to sell them where I worked, and every person who bought them loved them; in fact, they were installed on every AR owned by the local police departments ESU team.

And yes, it was expensive. Even though I got everything at dealer cost, I still had around $8k into my HK416, although as I mentioned it was a 14.5" barrel model, not the 10.4". However, I don't believe that paper money is going to carry much weight when it comes to acquiring weapons and accessories in a ZPAW. Luckily, I sold my HK to a friend, so I'll know where to get it back from should the undead start to rise ;)

[Bob]

My AR has a disco ball.
The guys here will vouch for it.

[nleksan]

Bob, on 28 June 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

My AR has a disco ball.
The guys here will vouch for it.

Darn, I knew I was forgetting something!

[hotlead]

Bob, on 28 June 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

My AR has a disco ball.
The guys here will vouch for it.

True story. I've seen pics.

If I ever get around to building an AR, I'm gonna hang two disco balls off my rifle in a Crown Royal bag.

[mattifikation]

I wonder how light I could get an AR-15 if I did a home build using the lightest components I could find?

NO! No... musn't buy more guns. Need a car first.

[Underdude]

Get a truck to carry the guns you'll have.

[mattifikation]

I don't think I'm gonna be in a position to be picky. lol

[nleksan]

mattifikation, on 28 June 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:

I wonder how light I could get an AR-15 if I did a home build using the lightest components I could find?

NO! No... musn't buy more guns. Need a car first.

Depending on how short you're willing to go with the barrel, and if you're willing to forgo any accessories (grips/lights/sights/etc), probably pretty light... Even more so if you have the budget to have parts custom made out of a lighter material, such as carbon fiber. Although in my opinion, the trick is finding a balance between functionality and weight; I don't think I would want to be without a weapon light during a ZPAW where the power grid is down, and I would much prefer to have an EOTech holo sight than just the standard iron sights.

----------------

I understand that there is a pretty big divide between people who like to add accessories to their weapons and those who believe that anything beyond a sight and maybe a VFG is unnecessary, but in the end it comes down to personal preference. If the attachments can provide two (or three) functions in one, then all-the-better, such as the Surefire M900 weaponlights with the attached VFG, or the EOTech holographic sight with a built-in laser pointer.

Then again, my opinion is based on having worked in a gun store and collecting various weapons of my own over the years, with only some amateur-level competitive shooting and plenty of time at the range under my belt. The closest I've ever gotten to actual combat is demonstrating Simunitions to potential clients, and a brief foray into airsoft.

Thus, I can't say that I know what it's like, in any way, to be in an actual live fire situation. There are plenty of people here either active or retired military who can provide much better answers on what is or is not useful or necessary in a combat situation. My knowledge comes from simply having handled and fired a multitude of weapons... Theirs comes from actual EXPERIENCE. I have an immense respect for those brave enough to serve in our armed forces, defending our country and putting their lives on the line everyday to do so, and I would never presume to know more about actual combat (or use of weapons in such situations) than these brave souls.

However, I do hope that I can offer my own perspective and my own knowledge, despite its limitations. When it comes to firearms/accessories/gear, I know what I sold for five years and I know, to varying degrees, what I've owned and what I've had experience handling and firing. But when it comes to actual combat or military experience, I will always defer to the knowledge of the people who have been there, the same people that lived with, relied on, and perhaps even had their lives saved by the products I merely sold to them.

[hotlead]

That'll help the discussion a lot. Honesty, perspective, and personal experience drives opinions and the willingness to learn and ask the right questions.

Just remember, whatever your weapon mounted light is pointing at, your weapon is pointing at, the reason concientious folks also have a hand held light. I wouldn't use it as your primary light source, while I only have a light on my primary HD gun and likely won't be using one in the ZPAW, I'd much rather burn up handheld flashlight batteries before my weapon light.

[Underdude]

How long do 123 batteries last in storage anyway?

[Hitman]

Underdude, on 29 June 2011 - 03:16 PM, said:

How long do 123 batteries last in storage anyway?

usualy rated at 10 yrs .

"According to Energizer's web site, Lithium batteries have a shelf life of 10-15 years. Note that "lithium" refers to disposable batteries, as distinguished from lithium-ion batteries, which are rechargable."