Zombjitsu!

[angekfire]

Krav Maga would be the best right out of the gate. It teaches you everything you need to know to escape any situation unharmed, including when you're outnumbered, which would be one of the most important skills with zombies everywhere.

Tae-Kwon-Do's kicks, a boxer's punches, and Muay Thai knee strikes are powerful enough to at the very least cause a concussion in a live human, a concussion strength should be enough to at least temporarily stun a zombie while you can escape, grab a weapon, or head stomp. I would say one of those 3 would be the next best thing to Krav Maga. You don't really want to have to grapple with a zed.

[kiltedninja]

Originally Posted by angekfire

Krav Maga would be the best right out of the gate. It teaches you everything you need to know to escape any situation unharmed, including when you're outnumbered, which would be one of the most important skills with zombies everywhere.

Tae-Kwon-Do's kicks, a boxer's punches, and Muay Thai knee strikes are powerful enough to at the very least cause a concussion in a live human, a concussion strength should be enough to at least temporarily stun a zombie while you can escape, grab a weapon, or head stomp. I would say one of those 3 would be the next best thing to Krav Maga. You don't really want to have to grapple with a zed.

I've done both TKD and boxing, and I'm currently doing Muay Thai, and Muay Thai is alot more streamlined and effective than TKD, the boxing aspect of it is about the same, but Muay thai's kicks are far more powerful than TKD's kicks. And we learn alot of the same boxing drills as regular boxing.

[angekfire]

I remember seeing a documentary on the power of different martial arts. A boxer had the strongest punch out of them all, with enough force to give someone a concussion.

I then remember for kicks, Tae-Kwon-Do came second in power (way above a boxer's punch), but was still waaaay behind Muay Thai, which a knee from Muay Thai was the equivalent of the impact from a car crash (I forget the speed of the collision).

I think Muay Thai is largely much closer for combat though, focusing more on elbows and knees (not 100% sure as I've never done it) and Tae-Kwon-Do has a lot of longer ranged kicks that are still powerful enough to deal some serious damage to a zombie skull.

I don't think Krav Maga was in that documentary, but Ninjutsu had Dim-Mak which made it the single most destructive martial art. However, that wouldn't do a damn thing to a zed.

[kiltedninja]

Originally Posted by angekfire

I remember seeing a documentary on the power of different martial arts. A boxer had the strongest punch out of them all, with enough force to give someone a concussion.

I then remember for kicks, Tae-Kwon-Do came second in power (way above a boxer's punch), but was still waaaay behind Muay Thai, which a knee from Muay Thai was the equivalent of the impact from a car crash (I forget the speed of the collision).

I think Muay Thai is largely much closer for combat though, focusing more on elbows and knees (not 100% sure as I've never done it) and Tae-Kwon-Do has a lot of longer ranged kicks that are still powerful enough to deal some serious damage to a zombie skull.

I don't think Krav Maga was in that documentary, but Ninjutsu had Dim-Mak which made it the single most destructive martial art. However, that wouldn't do a damn thing to a zed.

Most of the kicks for long range in the TKD arsenal are really flashy, but hard to do, and very ineffective.

I know about those knees, I caught one last week that put me on the ground, my instructor was trying to demonstrate something and went a little bit too fast and hit me. I've been hit with baseball bats and that knee was still the most painful thing I've ever felt.

Muay Thai's focus isn't on the elbows and knees, it's called 'The Science of the Eight Limbs' because of the use of eight points of impact, our fists, elbows, knees and shins. We strike with whatever we need to strike with when we need to strike. The art itself came from two style, Muay Boran and Krabi Krabong, Muay Boran means ancient boxing and is a generic term much like kung fu. Krabi Krabong is a weapons based art, utilizing swords as well as the eight limbs principle.

TKD, contrary to what they like to tell people is a post-reformation art, much like judo and aikido, it comes from two martial arts as well, Taekkyon and Karate. When the korean people were reforming after the Korean war, the government wanted them to have a martial art, but something 'softer' than the original battlefield arts. An old practitioner of Taekkyon and a karate master took bits of things from each other and taekwondo was born. The Pinan forms of Karate are also that way. If you know where to look, and you know some stuff about the Ryukyuan people you can see where the changes were made, if you know the Heian forms as well.

One that's often overlooked when it comes to these kinds of discussions is Kempo. It's also kind of born from another art, when chinese monks were in Japan they taught mountain farmers and monks their chinese boxing and the Japanese adapted that.

If you're really looking into a practical art, go for Kempo, Krav Maga, or if you're willing to invest a lot of time, Muay Thai.

[SWAT Zombie]

ryukyu kempo is one of the best i've personally come across. i trained at a school that practiced mainly kempo with some jujitsu and philipino stick fighting. i was impressed with this school's realistic training and effective techniques. you don't have to be strong or athletic to do the techniques (but it never hurts to be fit). it is especially good for women. other schools i'd been to that required a certain amount of physicality to pull off the techniques the women often struggled with it. i'm a big guy and my instructor at that school had no trouble using what he taught on me but he was quite a powerfully built guy. smaller men and women would often struggle to effectively use the techniques on me, no matter how long they'd trained. in fact, one girl was practicing an armlock and was struggling to get a reaction from me. i told her to go harder if she liked but she said she was going as hard as she could and it was actually hurting her to do it. but at ryukyu kempo even the women could effectively apply the techniques we learnt against me. it took alot of hard work for them to get the techniques right, but any effective hand to hand training will take some practice before you get good. it was a great school because of the diversity of techniques on offer for different shaped and sized people.
just a side note, kempo actually evolved from the chinese styles in Okinawa, the Japanese actually got Karate from the Okinawans. ryukyu kempo is their term for Okinawan kungfu as kempo is another word for kungfu and ryukyu refers to the Ryukyu islands of which Okinawa is one. also the original moves in kempo were short punches and kicks that targeted pressure points. the okinawans only taught the japanese their kata but not the true applications of the moves, so because they didn't learn the proper pressure point applications of the kicks, punches and grapples, they developed the extended punches and long thrusting kicks because without knowing where to place these strikes the short, fast moves were not effective enough. and alot of the moves which the japanese interpreted as blocks were in fact grappling moves. the fist being drawn back to the hip during a punch or "block" in karate is actually a grappling move where you are pulling the opponent into you as you strike, increasing the impact of the move.

Originally Posted by kiltedninja

If you're really looking into a practical art, go for Kempo, Krav Maga, or if you're willing to invest a lot of time, Muay Thai.

i'd agree whole heartedly with that.

[Noc]

Originally Posted by kiltedninja

I've done both TKD and boxing, and I'm currently doing Muay Thai, and Muay Thai is alot more streamlined and effective than TKD, the boxing aspect of it is about the same, but Muay thai's kicks are far more powerful than TKD's kicks. And we learn alot of the same boxing drills as regular boxing.

Yeah I just done a little TKD and didn't really care for it. It neglects the hands, and like you said the kicks aren't as practical as they are in Muay Thai.

Although I think boxing develops better hands than Muay Thai, just because 100% of boxing is focused on the hands.

[Nopkar]

I guess Muay Thai would work really really well. I have a little experience in wrestling (brothers a navy seal >.>) and so I've learned that a persons head is super maneuverable...with that said, grab a handful of zed hair, yank, pull whatever you need to do, get it on its stomach, put that knee to the back of the neck and slam it down, zed ded eh?

I'm voting for the quick, dirty and down right personal for my zedjitsu. it might not be that SMART but by damn if it's a must, you might as well right?

*edit* quick, very rounded math: It could take anywhere from 16-873N to crush a skull right? (yes this is a HUGE gap, but the skull isn't uniform now is it?) a smaller person, 160lbs or so, has over 1600N falling just a foot...the knee drop, perfect ^.^ I'm sure with me being a pretty hefty guy I could deliver that much with my elbow to a temple or even the base of the skull.

[kiltedninja]

Precision is key with elbows. And a temple shot isn't always a guarantee, I've hit people in the temple with an elbow and it's not even a guaranteed knockout. I can take shots to my temple and still come back swinging.

To Noc:
I did about 6 months of boxing, and it gives me a big advantage over the other people in my gym.

[SWAT Zombie]

boxing may be fairly limited as a fighting style by itself but it makes a very good supplement when training in multiple styles. i've been on the business end of a series of thunderous punches when training with someone from a boxing background. also you might find alot of boxings training drills have been incorporated into other styles of fighting and it is excellent for cardiovascular improvement. its also relatively simple to learn so its great for someone who wants to learn some quick fighting moves. it may only concentrate on the torso and head by itself but combined with leg and grappling training it can be devastating. the other thing about boxing is how hard the average boxer is trained. i've seen some ridiculously soft training methods from some so called martial arts schools i've looked at, and alot of schools do way too much non contact training. but boxing gyms don't seem to muck about from what i've seen and heard. if you wanna box, be prepared for some pain. if you last it will harden you up pretty quick smart and at the very least you'll be in some pretty damn good shape to handle yourself amongst zombies, even if its just having the physical stamina to run like hell.

[kiltedninja]

That's about the size of it for boxing. I don't expect to be breaking bones with my punches(A jaw maybe, but nothing life threatening), I'd use H2H only if it was an absolute must, and I'd likely be doing it to run away.

[angekfire]

Originally Posted by SWAT Zombie

i trained at a school that practiced mainly kempo with some jujitsu and philipino stick fighting.

Eskrima? I want to actually study some of that. I am doing a bit of chinese stick fighting with my twin chinese broadsword training. They use many of the same movements & techniques.

And I have to wholeheartedly agree that TKD is largely useless in practicality. As a kid, it was good because it gave me a good mindset to learn other martial arts quickly.

Boxing is limiting, definitely, but there is also kickboxing if you want to branch out. It definitely makes for a good supplement though, even if just for the conditioning.

[Onslaught]

Originally Posted by Nopkar

I guess Muay Thai would work really really well. I have a little experience in wrestling (brothers a navy seal >.>) and so I've learned that a persons head is super maneuverable...with that said, grab a handful of zed hair, yank, pull whatever you need to do, get it on its stomach, put that knee to the back of the neck and slam it down, zed ded eh?

I'm voting for the quick, dirty and down right personal for my zedjitsu. it might not be that SMART but by damn if it's a must, you might as well right?

*edit* quick, very rounded math: It could take anywhere from 16-873N to crush a skull right? (yes this is a HUGE gap, but the skull isn't uniform now is it?) a smaller person, 160lbs or so, has over 1600N falling just a foot...the knee drop, perfect ^.^ I'm sure with me being a pretty hefty guy I could deliver that much with my elbow to a temple or even the base of the skull.

One problem I see with attempting to break zombie bones with your body is the risk of a compound fracture on their part, and infection on your part.

I have a quick question. When I was wrestling I learned very quickly that the pelvis is the source of all movement. Yes, where the head goes, the body must eventually follow, but if you control a man's hips, he isn't going anywhere. And a zombie's head is where the bitey parts are. So, if you were in a hand to hand survival/defense situation against a lone zombie, (let's say you've taken out six of his mates and your revolver is empty) would it be a better bet to kick to the chest or the pelvis? The intent is to put him on the ground quickly. (Let's say you don't want to get tangled in his arms and we're disregarding the knee as a target, just for the challenge of it.)

[SWAT Zombie]

i think bruce lee's philosophy of do whats effective and discard what isn't applies. why go to the chest or pelvis when a kick to the knee is quicker, takes less effort and will take away a major support base from your opponent. if you try to make any fight more challenging, against a zombie, a cage fighter, a drunken pub yobbo or even a 90 pound weakling (he may look weak, but who knows what he's really capable of), you're looking for trouble. mucking about in a fight will get you hurt or worse.
ok, now that i'm done preaching i'd say if you can smash the pelvis it will likely be more effective at putting them to the ground and keeping them there. since breaking ribs or damaging internal organs isn't really gonna effect a zombie, damaging them structurally would work better and a smashed hip will make it harder to hold up the rest of the body. also a kick to the chest, even if you do damage may not keep them down. i guess tho it depends on how much damage you do. this has all really been guess work for me because my personal style of fighting has always been to keep kicks low. the higher the kick the more energy and time it takes and the more unstable your balance becomes (another pro for targeting the hip as opposed to the chest). also if someone catches your leg they can put you down quite easily. if they catch your arm you have a better chance of escaping and haven't lost your support base.
but for an untrained person who may not have the accuracy or power to break bones, i think a solid boot to the chest or gut might be better to knock them down or even just away from you.

[Onslaught]

Originally Posted by SWAT Zombie

i think bruce lee's philosophy of do whats effective and discard what isn't applies. why go to the chest or pelvis when a kick to the knee is quicker, takes less effort and will take away a major support base from your opponent. if you try to make any fight more challenging, against a zombie, a cage fighter, a drunken pub yobbo or even a 90 pound weakling (he may look weak, but who knows what he's really capable of), you're looking for trouble. mucking about in a fight will get you hurt or worse.
ok, now that i'm done preaching i'd say if you can smash the pelvis it will likely be more effective at putting them to the ground and keeping them there. since breaking ribs or damaging internal organs isn't really gonna effect a zombie, damaging them structurally would work better and a smashed hip will make it harder to hold up the rest of the body. also a kick to the chest, even if you do damage may not keep them down. i guess tho it depends on how much damage you do. this has all really been guess work for me because my personal style of fighting has always been to keep kicks low. the higher the kick the more energy and time it takes and the more unstable your balance becomes (another pro for targeting the hip as opposed to the chest). also if someone catches your leg they can put you down quite easily. if they catch your arm you have a better chance of escaping and haven't lost your support base.
but for an untrained person who may not have the accuracy or power to break bones, i think a solid boot to the chest or gut might be better to knock them down or even just away from you.

The challenge comment was for the sake of argument, not intended as a way to make an actual encounter more challenging. I just didn't want 9000 replies of, "kick the knee".

I'm also not concerned with doing structural damage with a kick. I'm really more interested in whether or not people think that kicking the pelvis, even though it's lower and therefore takes away some of the leverage, might be a better alternative to a sternum kick. The zombie is trying to maintain balance by keeping it's shoulders above it's hips above it's feet. The more you mess with that alignment, the less balanced the zombie becomes. A kick to the chest would seem to have the most effect because that is the level furthest from the ground and therefore you have leverage working on your side. But I wonder what happens when you move the middle section instead. Will the zombie fold in half, bringing it's head toward you, or will the legs and shoulders follow suit and be forced backward?

[SWAT Zombie]

i think you're right. if you're just talking about a knockdown then i'd say a kick to the chest would be better. i think a pelvis/midsection kick might not stop the zombies forward momentum as much, but i do think it would cause the head to come forward and potentially be in a position for you to attack. but it would also create a greater bite hazard as well. so for a straight knockdown, chest, but to set it up for a quick head smash, pelvis.
the other thing tho about a pelvis kick, because it might cause the torso to fold forward it could allow the zombie to use its hands to stabilise itself, allowing it to recover quickly. a chest kick would (hopefully) cause it to fall on its back and take it longer to recover. so i guess both have their pros and cons. really just depends on what you plan to do after you've knocked it down