Ghosts and Spirits (Serious Chat)

[Darkness]

"Yes, I believe they exist. I know a lot of you might think I'm crazy, but I can feel them around me, some more than others. I have seen things move that shouldn't be moving, and I have felt a touch when no one was there. Sometimes they even find a voice and I'll hear my name called. And I know I'm not alone. How about you guys? Anyone out there have any real life ghostly experiences they would like to share? I'd love to hear about them."

[Pain]

The jury is still out on the subject of Ghosts for me. I did date a girl once that was convinced they exist, in fact she scared the hell out of me one night when I had to sleep over at the hotel I worked in. She jumped up in the middle of the night convinced that something was stood at the end of the bed. That really messed my nights sleep up.

[Darkness]

"I actually saw three cabinet doors close loudly, and a broom fly out of the corner where I kept it, and smack this violent guy upside the head that wouldn't leave my apartment where I was living. As he left, the front door slamed shut, almost knocking him off his feet."

[Dr. Freudstein]

I've always believed in the supernatural, but I don't think ghosts are sentient beings. The human body, especially the brain, emits an electromagnetic field and at times of great stress or agony (as in death) this can become trapped, especially within the confines of a room, and loop. So really it's like a home movie that's stuck on a reel and repeats at certain intervals.

Spirits I see differently, these are manifestations outside our casual reality that appear to communicate via an instrument such as a medium or by séance. As to whether they are the 'souls' of human beings is something of conjecture. There are energies in the universe that can't be rationalized, that are numinous and chaotic and only manifest through us as 'good' or 'evil', and, much like 'spirits', may be a projection of our own desires rather than evidence of life after death.

[Zombie Survivor]

I don't know, I'm sceptial but if you look at my thread (creepy places and faces) I experienced some freaky stuff. I'm open minded, but as long there's no real evidence, I'm not sure...

[Darkness]

"I have had too many personal experiences not to believe. But I can fully understand not being able to believe without first hand proof."



I've always believed in the supernatural, but I don't think ghosts are sentient beings. The human body, especially the brain, emits an electromagnetic field and at times of great stress or agony (as in death) this can become trapped, especially within the confines of a room, and loop. So really it's like a home movie that's stuck on a reel and repeats at certain intervals.

"I totally agree with this. Ghost aren't a 'thinking spirit'. They are caught here, as you said, in a loop, reliving their last thought/moment over and over again. The sensation of 'the hair standing up on the neck' could very well be caused by these EMFs moving through our own physical structure."



Spirits I see differently, these are manifestations outside our casual reality that appear to communicate via an instrument such as a medium or by séance. As to whether they are the 'souls' of human beings is something of conjecture. There are energies in the universe that can't be rationalized, that are numinous and chaotic and only manifest through us as 'good' or 'evil', and, much like 'spirits', may be a projection of our own desires rather than evidence of life after death

"Interesting concept, and I find myself agreeing with this too. I do believe that some souls are strong enough to become spirits, but not all spirits are souls. I have a friend who died, and before he did, he promised that I would never be alone. I believe he is the one who calls my name from time to time."

[nirvroxx]

I had a creepy experience when I was about 10. It was a saturday morning, I had kinda woken up but decided to stay in bed a little longer, so I was asleep but not fully asleep...anyway as I lay there I distinctly felt someone covering my face with a pillow as if to smother me, I sat up angry because I thought it was my little sis playing a joke on me. I looked to both sides of my bed thinking she would be hiding there. no luck, then I checked underneath my bed. she wasnt there either. Thats when I started to realize something wasnt right and the hairs on the back of my neck started to rise. I ran out of my room, across the hall to my sisters room and she was sound asleep.

there was no way it could have been her or anyone else for that matter. I mean, I got a couple of seconds after I felt this pillow on my face and I sat up with my eyes open, so I would have seen whoever was doing this instantly. there would have been no time to hide or run down the hall....It was pretty creepy. I didnt sleep in my room for 2 weeks after that.still gives me chills writing this down.

[Darkness]

"Wow! I would have slept somewhere else too. Fortunatly for me, all of my experiences have been the calm type."

"I do get a lot of visits from my cats that have passed. I can sometimes feel them curling up beside me in their 'favorite spots', as I'm laying there slowly falling asleep."

[R-Complex]

"I actually saw three cabinet doors close loudly, and a broom fly out of the corner where I kept it, and smack this violent guy upside the head that wouldn't leave my apartment where I was living. As he left, the front door slamed shut, almost knocking him off his feet."
I hate to sound like a complete prick here but I’ve read and heard many similar claims of paranormal events but I have never seen anything that held up under any rational scrutiny. At the risk of sounding condescending, and I truly apologize if it sounds this way, but I am hesitant to accept your version of the story. Granted, I don’t necessarily doubt you interpreted and remembered it this way, but interpretations are a malleable thing and memory is fickle at best. Of course I wasn’t there and my opinion shouldn’t have much bearing on your opinions, but I remain skeptical of the plausibility much less the actual reality of life after death. The only form of immortality we may attain is that which remains in loved one’s memories, your artistic creations in life, writings, ideas and impact on the world around you. Once ye ol’ metabolism ceases to be, well, you are then as nonexistent as before your conception.
I've always believed in the supernatural, but I don't think ghosts are sentient beings.
I agree. Creaking floorboards warping as the temperature changes aren’t sentient. Drafts and gusts of wind from undetected openings aren’t cognitive. Weird echoes, temperature changes in certain areas of old houses, thumps and bumps are all unthinking phenomena. Humans are sentient though; there are no haunted houses, only haunted people. No ghosts save for those that rattle around in our easily confused heads.
The human body, especially the brain, emits an electromagnetic field and at times of great stress or agony (as in death) this can become trapped, especially within the confines of a room, and loop. So really it's like a home movie that's stuck on a reel and repeats at certain intervals.
Well, more accurately electrochemical processes occur in the brain and nervous system but there are no scientific studies that support the idea that they can extend beyond the dendrites and neurons of the brain. The skull is an effective barrier against these rather weak electromagnetic forces. If this “energy” were capable of exceeding its brain-prison then becoming trapped in a specific location stuck in a “loop”, why would this extremely weak force do so yet the much more powerful magnetism of a fridge magnet would not? Using your criteria and definition(s), the world’s human ghosts would be drowned out by the electromagnetic spooks from electronic equipment and cell phones.
Spirits I see differently, these are manifestations outside our casual reality that appear to communicate via an instrument such as a medium or by séance. As to whether they are the 'souls' of human beings is something of conjecture. There are energies in the universe that can't be rationalized, that are numinous and chaotic and only manifest through us as 'good' or 'evil', and, much like 'spirits', may be a projection of our own desires rather than evidence of life after death.
What sorts of “energies”? I’m only aware of the strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, and the gravitational force. Anything else has failed to demonstrate its presence. To date, no medium that I’m aware of has provided information not available to any researcher through normal means or by a clever use of cold reading techniques (http://www.randi.org/library/coldreading/index.html).
I had a creepy experience when I was about 10. It was a saturday morning, I had kinda woken up but decided to stay in bed a little longer, so I was asleep but not fully asleep...anyway as I lay there I distinctly felt someone covering my face with a pillow as if to smother me, I sat up angry because I thought it was my little sis playing a joke on me. I looked to both sides of my bed thinking she would be hiding there. no luck, then I checked underneath my bed. she wasnt there either. Thats when I started to realize something wasnt right and the hairs on the back of my neck started to rise. I ran out of my room, across the hall to my sisters room and she was sound asleep.
there was no way it could have been her or anyone else for that matter. I mean, I got a couple of seconds after I felt this pillow on my face and I sat up with my eyes open, so I would have seen whoever was doing this instantly. there would have been no time to hide or run down the hall....It was pretty creepy. I didnt sleep in my room for 2 weeks after that.still gives me chills writing this down.
Sounds like a text book case of hypnagogic sleep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis). The smothering sensation, the half-awake half-asleep limbo state of consciousness- all are pretty common precedents for such an experience. I’ve had many all my life and as I got older, and more inquisitive, I found out what they were and can now control them with some success. They’re still panic inducing and nerve wracking experiences though!

[Darkness]

"Paranormal experiences, just like alien encounters, are something that it is hard to believe, unless you have experienced it for yourself. Because only then can your mind accept what society has imprinted on us as being impossible. I don't expect anyone to believe it blindly, that would be just stupid. I only believe because I have felt and seen what they said could not happen."

[Dr. Freudstein]

Well, more accurately electrochemical processes occur in the brain and nervous system but there are no scientific studies that support the idea that they can extend beyond the dendrites and neurons of the brain. The skull is an effective barrier against these rather weak electromagnetic forces. If this “energy” were capable of exceeding its brain-prison then becoming trapped in a specific location stuck in a “loop”, why would this extremely weak force do so yet the much more powerful magnetism of a fridge magnet would not? Using your criteria and definition(s), the world’s human ghosts would be drowned out by the electromagnetic spooks from electronic equipment and cell phones.

The problem with scientific rationalism is when dealing with any phenomena it relies on studies and provable theory. But does that limit our world to what can be written down and recorded? I wonder even how much scientific and medical theory is discounted because it doesn't conform to an academic criteria. Five hundred years ago much of what we rely on today wasn't even conceivable, yet here we are using computers and talking about electromagnetic forces like it was the most natural thing in the world. What if, in another five hundred years, the "supernatural" of today becomes known and real to us, does it make it any less real now?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Shakespeare, "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5

If ghosts actually do exist then this is what I believe them to be. I agree with you that the electromagnetism in the human brain shouldn't be able to travel beyond the confines of the skull, but what if in rare cases it was stronger than usual and directed (even unconsciously)?

What sorts of “energies”? I’m only aware of the strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, and the gravitational force. Anything else has failed to demonstrate its presence. To date, no medium that I’m aware of has provided information not available to any researcher through normal means or by a clever use of cold reading techniques

Again (and I don't wish to sound churlish in my use of your phraseology) it's "what you're aware of", what has "demonstrated its presence". By "energies" I refer to that known as magikal, which may or may not originate in the known physical world (as opposed to the acausal or non-physical realm), but whose current (energy) is certainly manifest within it.

I'm well aware that this is a somewhat esoteric ontological idea (or belief, albeit shaped by over twenty years of study and experience), and unproven (by any conventional method). But unproven does not mean unreal, to quote Einstein, "All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike..."

[Darkness]

Here! Here! Well put!"


"Imagination is more important than knowlege." ~Albert Einstein~


"Like I stated before, I only believe because I have seen, felt, and heard what should not be there. Until a person has an experience of their own, they usually can not accept the possibility of it's existance, and this is how it should be. To believe that every noise, movement, or touch sensation, is a spirit or ghost will only serve to drive one insane. Even after growing up in a 'visited' house, it wasn't until I had a personal experience, along with about seven other people who saw it happen too, that I really started to believe it wasn't all in my head. It suddenly became undeniable to my mind."

[R-Complex]

The problem with scientific rationalism is when dealing with any phenomena it relies on studies and provable theory. But does that limit our world to what can be written down and recorded?
I would alter this slightly in that science does not deal in “proofs” (proof is verifiable only in mathematics), but in theory and laws. And the distinction ‘tween theory and law is tenuous at best, and so fine as to be irrelevant to many studies. We have the theory of evolution which is as confirmed as the theory of gravity; unfortunately the use of the term theory amongst scientists is very different from that of non-scientists. Many mistakenly believe “theories” are educated guesses or mere conjecture, while physicists and biologists manipulate, hold in their hands, and work with “theories” every day they’re in the lab or on the field.
So I don’t think science limits knowledge to what can be written down and recorded, but it also allows conjecture and hypotheses beyond what is capable of being recorded. Atoms exist, yet there is no actual snapshot of an atom; we can verify their existence by tracking electrons that catapult from the atoms. Tracking the electron’s footprints we can build an atom’s blueprint in detail. So no, atoms have not been directly “recorded” and their nature “written down”, but we can infer their existence based on the actions, reactions and properties of other particles. Much of science is done this way.
I wonder even how much scientific and medical theory is discounted because it doesn't conform to an academic criteria. Five hundred years ago much of what we rely on today wasn't even conceivable, yet here we are using computers and talking about electromagnetic forces like it was the most natural thing in the world. What if, in another five hundred years, the "supernatural" of today becomes known and real to us, does it make it any less real now?
Sure. But your example of computers falls squarely into the materialist realm. Granted, the concept of cell phones and the internet would seem magical to a 14th century peasant, but we know that these devices conform to well understood physical laws. I certainly don’t think that everything has been discovered in nature, nor do I believe that no great mysteries remain. I hope that in my lifetime a grand unified theory for physics will be unveiled (biology already has one: the theory of evolution by natural selection); I anticipate great leaps in AI and human cognition, consciousness being one of the great unexplored frontiers yet remaining. So there are certainly big questions just begging to be explored, but the answers to these questions will follow well established physical precepts. The foundations on which the universe operate are well understood; the details within await further explanation yet those explanations will stand on the shoulders of scientific naturalism with no hint of a ghost in the machine or a specter in the cogs.
If ghosts actually do exist then this is what I believe them to be. I agree with you that the electromagnetism in the human brain shouldn't be able to travel beyond the confines of the skull, but what if in rare cases it was stronger than usual and directed (even unconsciously)?
I’d love to see this demonstrated using the scientific method. If so, I’d accept that a bold new frontier in science had been opened! But there has been nothing to date that even suggests psychic phenomena, whether telepathy, psychokinesis, precognition, clairvoyance, etc. If the presence of disembodied “minds” that existed independent of the biological structures that guide them were validated, I suspect the scientific world would be turned on its head and this discovery would be praised as being far more spectacular than splitting the atom or deciphering the structure of DNA. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Again (and I don't wish to sound churlish in my use of your phraseology) it's "what you're aware of", what has "demonstrated its presence".
No worries! If I’m hoisted by my own verbal petard so be it.....:)
By "energies" I refer to that known as magikal, which may or may not originate in the known physical world (as opposed to the acausal or non-physical realm), but whose current (energy) is certainly manifest within it.
I'm well aware that this is a somewhat esoteric ontological idea (or belief, albeit shaped by over twenty years of study and experience), and unproven (by any conventional method). But unproven does not mean unreal, to quote Einstein, "All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike..."
Don’t forget the rest of Einstein’s quote: “-and yet it is the most precious thing we have.” It is the most precious due to its being the sole successful means of describing and predicting the universe. You may propose magikal energies, supernatural entities, or forces from unknown dimensions but they remain conjectural and rather trivial given the proven track record of scientific naturalism and the scientific method. We’ve intimately described the structure and function of DNA, split atoms with predicted results, sent humans to other celestial bodies based on simple Newtonian physics- we can predict the passages of planets humans will likely never set foot on through computer simulations and mathematical models! These tried and true successes fill me with wonder and amazement; talk of magik and esoteric energies are trivial as they have never shown even a glimmer of being anything but fantasy. Noone has described the world via paranormal abilities that wasn’t already explained by science. I say that if there were forces beyond what science has put on the table let the mediums and mystics offer up some evidence for their claims. Why are traditional religious texts devoid of any description of DNA, where were the medium’s description of the speed of light in gas lit parlors written, or why did no seer predict Homo sapiens origins on the African continent? Instead we have vague platitudes and generalizations with no substantive value from the mystics and tea leaf readers. Granted, unproven does not mean unreal, but the invisible and the nonexistent look much alike. Einstein summed this up rather well: “Truth is what stands the test of experience.”

[R-Complex]

"Imagination is more important than knowlege." ~Albert Einstein~
"I like quoting Einstein. Know why? Because nobody dares contradict you."
Studs Terkel, Guardian interview (March 2002)
:greet:

[Darkness]

Einstein summed this up rather well: “Truth is what stands the test of experience.”

"Which is exactly why, no matter how many 'paranormal experiences' I had growing up, I never truely believed it inside, until the night I finally wasn't alone when it happened. Having others looking at the same thing, saying 'Did you see that?' all at the same time was a revelation, and a true turning point, in my belief in existance beyond the veil."

[toe_tag]

There was a ghost at the hippie commune I lived at. Don't think she liked me too much. She hated this other asshole who lived there, but that's because he was disrespectful to her family.
I never saw her, as an entity, I felt her, and saw her move things and make things happen. Always the rocking chair. Always.

[R-Complex]

I never saw her, as an entity, I felt her, and saw her move things and make things happen. Always the rocking chair. Always.
Why do ghosts have a proclivity for moving things that are, well, easily moved by a subtle wind, a movement or vibrations. I'd be rather surprised if a rocking chair or porch swing or ceiling lamp didn't quiver or sway every once in awhile with no apparent reason. I always wondered why ghosts would decide to make their presence known by such subtle and ambiguous means- if they can influence the physical world, even by such slight actions as moving a rocking chair, why couldn't they create a more convincing demonstration of their wants and needs? ;-)

[Sambob]

Why do ghosts have a proclivity for moving things that are, well, easily moved by a subtle wind, a movement or vibrations. I'd be rather surprised if a rocking chair or porch swing or ceiling lamp didn't quiver or sway every once in awhile with no apparent reason. I always wondered why ghosts would decide to make their presence known by such subtle and ambiguous means- if they can influence the physical world, even by such slight actions as moving a rocking chair, why couldn't they create a more convincing demonstration of their wants and needs? ;-)
Things that are easily moved are only easy to move if you have a solid presence. If you had all the substance of a fart you wouldn't really want to attempt to push a car up a hill.

[R-Complex]

Things that are easily moved are only easy to move if you have a solid presence. If you had all the substance of a fart you wouldn't really want to attempt to push a car up a hill.
That's my point! If ghosts are tangible enough to move a rocking chair or whack someone with a broom why can't they exert enough strength to push a key on a computer and type a coherent message containing info. only they and a select few have access? I find it interesting that ghostly claims revolve around drafts and rocking chairs but we never hear of ghostly interference occurring within drift chambers and the passage of ions being "tweaked" by the restless dead. Instead we have things moving that tend top move at the faintest hint of a breeze or a bump from a housepet (Did you see that door open by itself?!?!?! Surely that's proof of gnosis after death!)........:roll:

[Darkness]

"What I, and about six other people, saw wasn't something a 'breeze' could have done. Cabinet doors slammed shut. The front door shut, and latched, on it's own. A broom literally flew across the room, it didn't just fall down. There was no wind, and it would have taken a real wind, not just a breeze, to move these things. It wasn't just a little rocking chair moving in the breeze or something easy like that. A guy hit me, and the ghost/spirit kicked him out of my house, and that was that."

[Detroit Dogg]

Yes, I believe in Ghosts. I have seen many odd things in my life and there is no way you can convince me that they were all caused by wind and mind tricks.



~Dre

[Phrozin]

One move that doesn't make ghosts all that convincing is The Uninvited. I believe it's supposed to be based on a true story. All of the ghost encounters seem heavilly exagerated. It looks like they took something simple, like an egg rolling around and made it spin around like a top.

There's also a scene were the mother is ignoring her children screaming when she's on the phone. You can clearly see her put her finger up to the ear she's using when she's not on the phone. Then she's messing with the loud fruit juicer machine. I think she tried saying she didn't hear then because ghosts can cover up sounds or something like that.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

R-Complex knows how I feel about this stuff. :) :?

[Dr. Freudstein]

My first paranormal experience was when I was 7. I'd been ill in bed with an upset stomach (but wasn't delusional or feverish) and I'd put down a book (one of the later Biggles novels, can't remember exactly which one) and glanced over at the window. There was a ball and a stuffed toy (a penguin to be exact) moving up and down in mid-air. It seemed as though, I realized later, a small child was putting first one and then the other up to their face as though choosing which to play with. I moved to the side of the bed and made to get out, but as soon as my foot touched the floor they dropped suddenly, and landed, inanimate, on the floor. I stared at them for what seemed like hours waiting for something else to happen but it didn't.

The next day I came out of the toilet, sat down on my bed and reached across to my bedside cabinet to pick up the book, but it wasn't there. I looked under the cabinet, the bed, the pillows, down the bottom of the bed under the sheets, everywhere. Then I looked at the window, and my book was resting on top of the curtain rail. There was no logical reason as to how it got there. I didn't do it, and certainly my sister and my parents didn't (not in the few minutes I was in the toilet). I had to drag my bedside cabinet round from the other side of the bed, put it against the window ledge and climb up. I held onto the curtain, reached across and plucked the book from it's perch. I still to this day have no idea how it got there.

My childhood had been punctuated by drawers being opened as I left or entered the room, and taps turning on (and off), books tipping from shelves and cisterns flushing of their own accord, but this is the most dramatic episode as a child.

In my late teens, a friend had moved into a new flat and within a week he was in the pub complaining about household objects being moved from where they were left and books and magazines being found strewn on the floor in the morning. So I jokingly said, 'let's try a seance or an ouija board', whereupon a girl we all knew piped up "I have an ouija board, or at least my uncle does". So we agreed to met on the saturday to attempt to communicate with whatever was, as my friend believed, haunting the house.

We sat down that saturday night round the dining room table. There was four of us who agreed to do it, one of the girls stayed in the kitchen because she was too frightened to participate and another guy, Mark, sat in the room but didn't want to join in. So we all placed a hand on the planchette whilst the girl, Lee-Ann, called upon the spirit world. Five, ten minutes passed but nothing. So I said, "perhaps it needs all of us", so we convinced the other girl to sit down, but still couldn't convince Mark. After about five minuted of cajoling he agreed to sit in. The moment he placed his fingers on the planchette, it took off straight to YES, but then the lights flickered and the contents of top shelf of the box case flew off the shelf onto the floor. The girl who'd been nervous let out a scream and I turned from looking at the books, to her and then to Mark. He was sitting there rigid, tears streaming dowm his face, repeating over and over, "it's so sad, she's so alone", before he fainted.

We brought him to, and after he regained his composure we asked him what had happened. he said that he'd seen, in the corner of the room, an old lady sitting in a chair. All he felt was extreme loneliness, desperation and a longing to die. About a week later the guy who was renting the flat spoke to the landlord and he confirmed that the previous owner, an old lady had died in the front room of the house, that she had no relatives and he's picked up the house cheap at public auction. I never found out if that was the last of it as our friend moved to London a short while after (I went to live in his new house when I moved to the city).

As for where I live now, in the morning and in the evening I've distinctly heard the sound of footsteps on a wooden bedroom floor (granted our cottage is a few hundred years old, but these are patterned sounds) and the curtain opening, but on a metal rail and our curtains run on wood rails. The cats reaction was quite distinct, to begin with they'd back away, hissing, run down the stairs, but now they just look in anticipation. The only time I've been in the bedroom when this happened (as opposed to the room underneath) the older cat danced round in a circle like he was rubbing against a leg. Quite bizarre.

Don’t forget the rest of Einstein’s quote: “-and yet it is the most precious thing we have.” It is the most precious due to its being the sole successful means of describing and predicting the universe. You may propose magikal energies, supernatural entities, or forces from unknown dimensions but they remain conjectural and rather trivial given the proven track record of scientific naturalism and the scientific method. We’ve intimately described the structure and function of DNA, split atoms with predicted results, sent humans to other celestial bodies based on simple Newtonian physics- we can predict the passages of planets humans will likely never set foot on through computer simulations and mathematical models! These tried and true successes fill me with wonder and amazement; talk of magik and esoteric energies are trivial as they have never shown even a glimmer of being anything but fantasy. Noone has described the world via paranormal abilities that wasn’t already explained by science. I say that if there were forces beyond what science has put on the table let the mediums and mystics offer up some evidence for their claims. Why are traditional religious texts devoid of any description of DNA, where were the medium’s description of the speed of light in gas lit parlors written, or why did no seer predict Homo sapiens origins on the African continent? Instead we have vague platitudes and generalizations with no substantive value from the mystics and tea leaf readers. Granted, unproven does not mean unreal, but the invisible and the nonexistent look much alike. Einstein summed this up rather well: “Truth is what stands the test of experience.”

I would say that we have to agree to disagree on this matter. Without first hand experience of Magik (as in undertaking a magikal act) you can have no idea of the experience or results that come from it. Magik is not interested in the known, but the manipulation of the unknown (or unseen), hence Occult. There are varying ideas as to how it works, manipulation of luck/fortune, natural forces (electromagnetic fields etc.) or the use of acausal (supernatural) energy. All however can be subjected to the volition of the protagonist. All amount to the same thing, to cause change in conformity with WILL. All I can say is, I have had clear results, many good and some very bad, for others shall we say. The difference between myself and spiritualists, mediums etc. is I don't have anything to sell, and nothing to prove. We're not interested in some occult evangelism, in fact the less idiots that latch onto it (because they've seen a film, bought a metal record etc.) the better. But I have to ask you, do you really think that I and the many neophytes, adepts (although I wouldn't place myself anywhere near this category) etc. would waste our lives if it was nothing but "fantasy"? If, after some 23 years, nothing had taken place then I would have shut my books and blown out the candles long ago.

[R-Complex]

I would say that we have to agree to disagree on this matter.
Agreed. Like most threads of this nature, I believe we’re at an impasse. But if nothing else can be gained, I can honestly admit that I’ve enjoyed your well written and fascinating posts.
Without first hand experience of Magik (as in undertaking a magikal act) you can have no idea of the experience or results that come from it. Magik is not interested in the known, but the manipulation of the unknown (or unseen), hence Occult.
And thus the issue becomes removed from any possible discourse. If it’s incumbent on personal anecdotes and experience, it is protected from any scrutiny. I may argue that there’s a species of invisible critters that accompany me at all times, but they are visible only to me and only I can attest to their influencing the external world. I’ve removed them from anyone’s frame of reference; they are intangible, untouchable, inarguable.
But I have to ask you, do you really think that I and the many neophytes, adepts (although I wouldn't place myself anywhere near this category) etc. would waste our lives if it was nothing but "fantasy"? If, after some 23 years, nothing had taken place then I would have shut my books and blown out the candles long ago.
Well, I think it’s a bit unfair to imply that I argued that anyone has wasted their lives. Whether they’re “fantasies” or not, I do believe there are countless examples of people who’ve pursued passions that were unwarranted or based on a misinterpretation of the evidence. Intelligent, well educated, sincere people have dedicated their lives to all manner of questionable philosophies. Breatharians, Raelians, macrobiotics practitioners, Ayn Rand libertarian devotees (alright, alright… no politics!), etc. I don’t doubt their lives are fulfilling and their personal beliefs are an inspiration and buttress against daily travails. But a belief that inspires and motivates has no connection to whether it’s based on anything of substance. So I don’t think anyone’s life has been wasted here: no more than Mormons have wasted their lives despite my believing Joseph Smith to have been a con artist; no more than self proclaimed “vampires” who gather a sense of worth from their lifestyle; no more than Blondlot wasted his life by pursuing N-Rays (well, I guess he did waste a year or so!); and so on….. But a prolonged devotion to an ideology has no connection to whether it’s true or not. Sincerity and reality are mutually exclusive concepts when it comes to cherished beliefs.

[R-Complex]

R-Complex knows how I feel about this stuff. :) :?
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a103/Sugriva/FRAUD.jpg
:scare:

[Darkness]

:) "And I, myself, would LOVE to hear more of those fasinating stories." :)

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

...and I'd put down a book (one of the later Biggles novels, can't remember exactly which one) ...

This makes me think of the Monty Python Biggles spoof skit.

Biggles: Algy, are you a poof?

Algy: Well, I should say so, old chap! *Bang!*

:mrgreen:

Sorry.

No one dies better of a gunshot wound than Michael Palin.

[Detroit Dogg]

This makes me think of the Monty Python Biggles spoof skit.

Biggles: Algy, are you a poof?

Algy: Well, I should say so, old chap! *Bang!*

:mrgreen:

Sorry.

No one dies better of a gunshot wound than Michael Palin.

:evil: that reminds me of another Monty Python skit......


Im a lumberjack and Im okaaaay, I work all night and I sleep all daaaay.:)


Back on topic now. :)



~Dre

[alexxthird]

When I was a teenager, I saw an honest-to-god ghost while, ahem, parking in an abandoned subdivision (I know, that sounds really lame, but suburbanites don't really have that much in the way of gothic).... Has anyone else experienced the paranormal or the extraterrestrial?

[Darkness]

"Anyone else seen a physicial appearition? Besides something moving? I have once. The same one who was 'playing' with the bully in my house also appeared to me a few nights later, as if to say she felt comfortable. Like she knew I wasn't afraid."

[Pain]

When I was a teenager, I saw an honest-to-god ghost while, ahem, parking in an abandoned subdivision (I know, that sounds really lame, but suburbanites don't really have that much in the way of gothic).... Has anyone else experienced the paranormal or the extraterrestrial?

I merged this thread Alex as they are very simlilar in theme

[Darkness]

"I was thinking the same thing when I saw that thread, Pain. That's why I bumped this one. So they could find it. Thanks!" :)

[thezombiebunny]

I've never been totally comfortable with the term "ghost" because that implies a very strict definition to which I'm sure the things we call ghosts don't always apply. That being said, yes, I believe there are spirits/ghosts/energies/whatever be the term.

My theory is as follows, as of right now: Scientifically speaking, matter is just trapped energy. Everything we're made of and that is made, is energy. I believe from personal and investigative experience this energy can, when released, become trapped somewhere else in a manner of speaking. Ever visited an abandoned mental hospital? The energy there is enormous, almost suffocating. Graveyards, old houses, even not-so-scary things like a street in your neighborhood, they can feel 'heavy'. Storms, as well, on occasion. I think we're all susceptible to feeling it; I believe that's why on Halloween you get more ghost reports than normal, because more people are actually paying attention to it. There's a whole different spectrum of reality, and I think it's completely ignorant and arrogant for humans to think we're the creme de la creme of the universal experience. There has to be an explanation for why a room, or house, or area, will suddenly trigger that heaviness, beyond 'imagination'. Are they repeated videos, as someone stated above, or can they think? No clue. Some sightings would definitely suggest intelligence. But perhaps that falls into a theological realm.

[Darkness]

I've never been totally comfortable with the term "ghost" because that implies a very strict definition to which I'm sure the things we call ghosts don't always apply. That being said, yes, I believe there are spirits/ghosts/energies/whatever be the term.
"Which is why I added the term 'Spirit' to the title of this thread. Had it occured to me, at the time, I would have added 'Energies' and 'Enities' as well."


My theory is as follows, as of right now: Scientifically speaking, matter is just trapped energy. Everything we're made of and that is made, is energy. I believe from personal and investigative experience this energy can, when released, become trapped somewhere else in a manner of speaking. Ever visited an abandoned mental hospital? The energy there is enormous, almost suffocating. Graveyards, old houses, even not-so-scary things like a street in your neighborhood, they can feel 'heavy'. Storms, as well, on occasion. I think we're all susceptible to feeling it; I believe that's why on Halloween you get more ghost reports than normal, because more people are actually paying attention to it. There's a whole different spectrum of reality, and I think it's completely ignorant and arrogant for humans to think we're the creme de la creme of the universal experience. There has to be an explanation for why a room, or house, or area, will suddenly trigger that heaviness, beyond 'imagination'. Are they repeated videos, as someone stated above, or can they think? No clue. Some sightings would definitely suggest intelligence. But perhaps that falls into a theological realm.
"Well put, Zombiebunny. I have indeed visited an old Mental Institution, and there were times I felt like I was walking through a veil, like the air itself had suddenly gotten thicker."

"When I was younger, I was put in the children's section of a huge one. I hardly slept at night, I could hear howling and screaming coming from one of the other buildings. Years later, when I got the courage to go back, I found out that the building I was hearing the noise from was abandoned. Had been for many years before I was ever there. I decided to go see for myself. I will never go back there again. That was the only scary paranormal experience I've ever had. The howling and screams were still going on, as if, like you said, they were still looping. The air was so thick, and cold, you could feel it wrap around you, and it was a hot summer night, with no real wind or breeze to speak of."

[thezombiebunny]

Yes...they are definitely some of the most energetically heavy places on earth. To me, insanity is worse than death. I'd definitely choose dead, with no afterlife included, to being insane. The energy stuck in those places from years of torment and fear, it's just..unreal. Perhaps that is what the other guy said, the "replay" of memories lived, but even with that theory, their torture obviously hangs around.

[Darkness]

"So true."

"Old Underground Seattle, in Washington State, is quite spooky too. I know of a lot of places in Washington that make your hair stand on end."

[Thing]

I hope this is relevant, if not I apologize, but...

My father encountered what he believed was the spirit of the Virgin Mary
in our very home when I was 12.

He was very moved by the event and couldn't even bring himself to speak
of the matter until two nights later.

He experienced this in the middle of the night in our main hallway.
He said she appeared to try to communicate but he could not discern Her words.
He stood there frozen until she turned and faded away.

I have never had any kind of paranormal experience.

[Darkness]

I hope this is relevant, if not I apologize, but...

My father encountered what he believed was the spirit of the Virgin Mary
in our very home when I was 12.

He was very moved by the event and couldn't even bring himself to speak
of the matter until two nights later.

He experienced this in the middle of the night in our main hallway.
He said she appeared to try to communicate but he could not discern Her words.
He stood there frozen until she turned and faded away.

I have never had any kind of paranormal experience.
"Wow! I bet it took him by surprise for sure."

[HEDSHOT45]

Okay I am not sure if this story fits the bill of a ghost or a sprit but here it goes.

I was out one night drinking with a friend of my by the Navajo reservation. Now for those that may not know, the Navajo tribe the largest indigenous tribe in the USA. They are very rooted in there beliefs. One of which is the belief in Skinwalkers.

Anyway after a few hours of drink and b.s.ing we headed for home which included about a twenty minute drive down a dirt road in the middle of no where. About five minutes into the drive we see a large naked Navajo man standing in the middle of the road. My first thought was that some poor guy had got robbed and dumped out there (not to uncommon), so we pulled up next to him to see if we could help. I as I rolled down my window he looked at me and smiled. I could not begin to describe the look on his face other than sinister. With that he took on running right down the middle of the road. Very soon into his mad sprint the fell to the road landing on all fours and kept on going. We drove up the road to see if we could find him and in the middle of the road stood a coyote. We hauled butt out of there and never went back.

Now that may have been nothing more than a drunk man and a coincidental coyote but I have heard to many stories to think it was anything else but a skinwalker

[Darkness]

"Wow! Great story, HEDSHOT45! Thanks for sharing." :clap:

"I'd LOVE to see a shapeshifting spirit sometime. That would be cool." :)

[Darkness]

"It's getting close to Halloween, great time for Real Life Ghost Stories. Anyone got any? Doesn't have to be your own." :)

[Zombiekilla55]

Yes I have one. It is my own, and true.
One time, near halloween, my dad took me and my friend out to a graveyard somewhere in the boonies...it had been closed off, due to dumb ****s going there to worship whatever they do. (My dad says they sacrificed cats and stuff...but I know that may not be true. (Trying to stay clear of religious stuff here mind you.) Anyway...my dad had to take a piss (yes a piss...what a stupid piece of crap!) and I could see what I thought was a little girl in a white dress over on the other side of the road...and she started walking towards the car. I'm like DAD GET BACK IN THIS ****ING CAR AND DRIVE! And my friend had to piss rly rly bad, so when my dad came back we sped off across the dirt road..and he tried to pea in a cup :lol: Anyway..when we got home...we saw handprints on the back of the car (it was covered in dust) and one drop of water on the back windshield...This really did happen.

[T-Boy Dallas]

The closest I've ever come with anything 'spirit and ghostly' would be at my work ironicly. Being a multi-million dollar building and government property which was five months behind schd. they started having construction crews work at night.

Well story goes back when our building was being finished one of the workers was helping set up the lift one night around 10pm, and something happened. A power surge or something of that nature that kicked through and set the elevator in motion. He was on the ground floor setting up the wiring and such for it (Some say he might have accidently done it himself crossing wires...) and the elevator started to come down right on top of him. No one noticed. Seeing the lift lower from the second to the first floor people assumed he'd done his job. Around 11 everyone kicked off for the night since they knew they'd have to be up there at 9am.

It was that next morning they discovered what had happened to the worker. The school hushed it up, making up some story about not putting phone lines in certin rooms of the school and kept it closed for another two months after the building was finished.

Now the building closes at 9:30pm and having the job I have I don't get out of there till a few minutes or so after 10. But everytime I've rode the elevator to the different floors around ten it seems darker and more malevelant, like a heavy presence there. (During the day I take the same elevator up to my classes in the same building) but at night I've grown accustom to taking the stairs. I've made up the excuse I don't want to get stuck in it if it breaks down since there's only ten of us in the entire building after 9:30.

Most of the time I would pawn this off on my over active imagination and natural reflex as a writer but everyone once and awhile I'll see the elevator start and lower from the second floor. First few times I've expected to see my coworker in it when the doors open but no one was there.

In reality it's probably nothing. Just my imagination hyped up by the works of Barker and King.

[Darkness]

"Thank you! Both of you!" :)

"I love hearing stories about personal experiences. And I feel that sharing them helps us, who have seen things like this too, feel not so alone." ;-)

[zombieslayer11]

i hear you...my friend and her family (no...shes not my GF :x ) are constintly haunted by the same ghosts. the ghosts are a small girl, an mid aged woman, and the most evil ghosts a man..mabe 40 or 30. where ever they go, thay keep haunting theam..they moved 5 times. they got a speacilest who works with super narutal fanaminan (i know i didnt spell that right sorry :-( ). the miniute she walked in she was suprised at the amount of ESP (she went with a team that had ESP readers, thyermal detection, and motions sensors.) in the house. she tryed connecting with the spirits, the little girl said something about her daddy being mad. from thean on...they have been living with the spirits for more thean 4 years.

[Darkness]

i hear you...my friend and her family (no...shes not my GF :x ) are constintly haunted by the same ghosts. the ghosts are a small girl, an mid aged woman, and the most evil ghosts a man..mabe 40 or 30. where ever they go, thay keep haunting theam..they moved 5 times. they got a speacilest who works with super narutal fanaminan (i know i didnt spell that right sorry :-( ). the miniute she walked in she was suprised at the amount of ESP (she went with a team that had ESP readers, thyermal detection, and motions sensors.) in the house. she tryed connecting with the spirits, the little girl said something about her daddy being mad. from thean on...they have been living with the spirits for more thean 4 years.
"Wow. I wonder if the ghosts could be linked to an object, or person, instead of a location. Have they tried leaving recording equipment going, in the house, over night while they sleep? Sometimes you can learn a lot from those."

[triple6]

I have one, and this made 3 people beleive in the supernatural,(me, my friend and my friend's mom). This was my first paranormal experience that ever happened to me, i was around 1 when it happened, i always would here the name bobby whispered in my room, at the time we didn't even know a bobby and didn't even have a neighbor named bobby, I would always hear that name no matter what each night when i was asleep, and it would always wake me up and i would always go complain to my mom about it, and she would never believe me, she would always think he was "imaginary", until my friend stayed the night in my room, he heared the name "bobby" to, my mom was still not convinced (she believed in ghosts, she just needed some proof before she believed a ghost story) anyway she was finally convinced there was a ghost when a third friend visited, and he said he heared the name "bobby" to, so she finally decided to get it blessed, so she asked her friend who got rid of ghosts to check the room out, he brought in 3 more people to check if there were any 'ghostly readings' and they found out that it was indeed a very high ghostly reading when they found they status using there equipment (i can't remeber what they used, but it was different then most standard ghost finding equipment), so then they communicated with the ghost and learned that he was a past resident who lived in the house, back when it got burned down, apparently he was the one who burned it down and died in the proccess by hiding in a closet. So then they got rid of the ghost the next day, then 2 years later we found out that there was a boy named bobby who burned down the house. Ever since then I have beleived in ghosts.

[Darkness]

"Neat. Have you ever felt/seen one since then?"

[triple6]

Sometimes, i feel a chill up my spine whenever something out of place or weird happens

[Darkness]

Sometimes, i feel a chill up my spine whenever something out of place or weird happens
"Ever feel like the air around you suddenly got thicker? Like real dense, and hard to move through?"

[triple6]

Ya, that has happened, and then felt like I was unable to breathe, then would suddenly be able to again.

[Darkness]

"That's what I feel every time I have an encounter. Like I'm trying to breathe, or walk through, pudding or something close. Or like I'm at an extremely high altitude, trying to breath steam."

[triple6]

Ya, an encounter with a ghost can be a win/lose situation.

[Darkness]

"Close contact can be, yea." :)

[jackskellington]

I absolutely believe in ghosts without a doubt. When I was 17, (1987), and my parents had recently divorced, I was living at my dad's house which was about a 3 to 5 year old good sized 4 bedroom 3 bath home with a full finished basement. My dad was on the road alot with his job which left me there alone probably 4 days out of the week. Anyway, I played in my first band back then and we had our 'practice room' set up in the basement. Needless to say, I had alot of friends that would stay over all the time since it was an 'authority figure free' environment. Well, strange things began happening with human figure shadows and strange buzzing sounds that would increase at times if you approached certain areas of the house. One particular night I had gone to bed in my room at the end of the hall and some of my friends were sitting in the living room watching TV when they heard a door open in the hallway and then footsteps coming toward the closed door separating the living room from the hall. I had a pet cat at the time that stood up on the back of the couch and began hissing at the door. Everyone in the room thought it was just me coming in, but when the cat began freaking out they looked towards the door and watched the knob turning back and forth several times and then suddenly stopping. After that, no footsteps, no nothing. A couple of the guys then opened the door and went down the hall and found me fast asleep in the bed under the covers. Needless to say, after that there were VERY few friends that would actually stay the night with me. After a couple more strange occurrences we even had to get a new practice room at another location since none of the guys would even set foot in the house. Eventually I ended up alone there most nights and would always sleep on the couch, but would end up playing basketball in the driveway from the middle of the night to sun up from fear of staying in there. Some friends would still take a chance and come over but would almost always end up leaving in the middle of the night. My dad was home one weekend night and we were sitting in the living room watching TV when we both heard the basement door that goes into the backyard open and slam violently 6 or 7 times. The thing about that door, though, is that it was an incredibly hard door to open since the frame was warped. It took a grown man two hands to open it. Anyhow, I just sat there stunned and terrified and my dad, (world's biggest skeptic), got up and went downstairs thinking someone had broken in. I followed him down and we found the door totally secure with the chain lock still hooked on. Neither of us could ever explain it and we really haven't spoken about it since then. A week or so later I moved in with my mom and my dad sold the house. Thing is, though, that I found out just a year or so ago that that house has been bought and sold several times over since then, with families only staying in it for a couple of years at best. Most of the time it sits on the market empty. Sorry for such a long ass story, but that's why I wholeheartedly believe in ghosts, spirits, demons or whatever you wanna call them.

[Darkness]

"Don't be sorry. It's a great story. Thank you for sharing it with us." :)

[Victor Clark]

You should try to find the house's history on the internet and see if anyone died in it. Maybe it can be investigated by thouse Ghost-Hunters on Sci-Fi.

[Darkness]

You should try to find the house's history on the internet and see if anyone died in it. Maybe it can be investigated by thouse Ghost-Hunters on Sci-Fi.
"Great thought, Victor. If you invite them they will usually come."

[Nemesis]

Interesting story Jack, very creepy.

[R-Complex]

You should try to find the house's history on the internet and see if anyone died in it. Maybe it can be investigated by thouse Ghost-Hunters on Sci-Fi.
Better yet, save your minutes and don’t call. The Ghost Hunters are frauds. The show does have a certain charm in its ineptness: the ridiculous instruments they incompetently use to detect ghosts, the bickering, weak attempts at pretending they’re approaching the investigation(s) rationally and skeptically- well, it’s all a sham. I think the show would’ve been rather entertaining if they’d taken the Spinal Tap route and made it a mockumentary about inept ghost hunters by night, plumbers by day, but unfortunately they sold the show as a straight docudrama. Pity.

[zombiekilling101]

how do you know its a scam?

[T-Boy Dallas]

Better yet, save your minutes and don’t call. The Ghost Hunters are frauds. The show does have a certain charm in its ineptness: the ridiculous instruments they incompetently use to detect ghosts, the bickering, weak attempts at pretending they’re approaching the investigation(s) rationally and skeptically- well, it’s all a sham. I think the show would’ve been rather entertaining if they’d taken the Spinal Tap route and made it a mockumentary about inept ghost hunters by night, plumbers by day, but unfortunately they sold the show as a straight docudrama. Pity.


It has a great deal of charm and entertainment value. I believe with editing and speculation they only pick the most entertaining bits of things. 90% of it would just be dull hissing of empty recorded sound and video of a chair. :drinking:

[R-Complex]

how do you know its a scam?
Of course I can only surmise what’s going on since I’m not involved in the production of the show, but there have been a few investigations of the alleged investigators as well. First, the Sci-Fi network claims that the Hunters are not manufacturing anything; they’re certain of this since Hawes’ and Wilson’s reputations are on the line if they’re not honest. I am a little reluctant to accept any claim of “open mindedness” on the part of the Hunters themselves; both Hawes and Wilson are co-founders of the Atlantic Paranormal Society, and both star as well as produce the show- that alone isn’t damning but it does raise questions of objectivity and honest reporting one would hope to find in a documentary, or even a lark-umentary (yeah, I invented a word. What’s it to you punk!?!).

While I’ll agree that a documentary is a very different craft than journalism (I think Michael Moore is a brilliant satirist and doc’ film maker, but I don’t think he ever claims to be a journalist), the Ghost Hunters show does claim to perform objective investigations which just doesn’t seem overly convincing.

There’s the now infamous episode (number 105:Eastern State Penitentiary) where a creepy dark figure disengages from the darkness and runs along the catwalk towards the camera. A skeptics group (the Skeptical Analysis of the Paranormal Society) attempted to mimic the footage and found that it could only be replicated (by non-paranormal means of course) by altering the footage to 15 frames a second instead of the 30 that TAPS productions normally uses. Simply put, only TAPS members had access to it and only they could’ve tinkered with the frame rate. Check out the show’s footage here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJjpiXLILnI) and the SAPS replication here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkTMRz6lx0w).
And SAPS also debunked the moving chair incident in episode 101: Race Rock Lighthouse (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx8eN9FG9AE) rather convincingly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6PoCBLpy00).

Ah screw it, here’s (http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-08-10.html) a great link that leads to other links that effectively demolish any claims that the Ghost Hunters are anything but entertainers who manipulate and gimmick their “investigations” to hoax ghost sightings.

This article kicks the paranormal in its lying fukcing teeth!

Also, check out the latest issue of Skeptical Inquirer (Sept./Oct. ‘06) which has a great article by Joe Nickel on ghost hunters in general which mentions the TAPS crew. Nickel investigated the haunted Myrtles Plantation in Louisiana which TAPS investigated in the premiere of season two. One of the more interesting occurrences was a moving lamp that slid atop a table in the plantation’s supposed “slave shack”. Many viewers claimed that in a night-vision shot aired they could actually see the lamp cord extending from the table to Wilson’s hand. And apparently the shack was never a slavehold, but was built recently.
And don’t get me started on their use of what these guys assert are “scientific instruments”! :x

[Darkness]

"I would really prefer it, if you would please take The Ghost Hunter Topic to the thread intended for it....."

http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5409

"This thread here is really just for serious talk, and stories about ghost, spirits and other such stuff." ;-)

[R-Complex]

"I would really prefer it, if you would please take The Ghost Hunter Topic to the thread intended for it....."

http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5409

"This thread here is really just for serious talk, and stories about ghost, spirits and other such stuff." ;-)
Well, I was responding to someone's post and I do believe my post was a wee bit more in the "serious talk" vein than the silly stories posted here, but I do apologize and cordially implore a mod to move my postings to the appropriate thread.
Thanks!

[Darkness]

Well, I was responding to someone's post and I do believe my post was a wee bit more in the "serious talk" vein than the silly stories posted here, but I do apologize and cordially implore a mod to move my postings to the appropriate thread.
Thanks!
"Your still welcome to stay and talk about ghosts, its just the conversation of The Ghost Hunters Show was starting to pull this thread off topic, and you know how the mods hate when that happens." ;-)

[headshotscrazy]

I'm un decisive on ghosts but this house is over 200 years old and supposedly some person died of the plague here and ever since doors randomly close at night. my mum says she feels a presence in the house sometimes so I'm starting to get a bit freaked.

[Darkness]

I'm un decisive on ghosts but this house is over 200 years old and supposedly some person died of the plague here and ever since doors randomly close at night. my mum says she feels a presence in the house sometimes so I'm starting to get a bit freaked.
"As I suggested before, if you have the chance, set up a recorder in the house, while your gone or asleep, in the most active room. Perhaps more than one, if you have more than one active room. I know this is a tactic that is often laughed at, but I have done it in an old house and what I heard recorded scared the sh*t out of me. If you can, try setting up some nanny cams as well. You never know what you will see."

[zombiekilling101]

you give a valid argument r-complex.

[headshotscrazy]

"As I suggested before, if you have the chance, set up a recorder in the house, while your gone or asleep, in the most active room. Perhaps more than one, if you have more than one active room. I know this is a tactic that is often laughed at, but I have done it in an old house and what I heard recorded scared the sh*t out of me. If you can, try setting up some nanny cams as well. You never know what you will see."

well i will have to set it up in the living room then but would i get interference from any other spirits as we are only about 5 meters away from a cemetery?

[Darkness]

"Those just may be the 'spirits' that are visiting you. I'd set it up, and see what you get, and take it from there."

[Victor Clark]

I heard of a railroad intersection in Texas which took the lives of a bus full of children when a train hit. Rumor is that if you put your car in neutral when crossing the tracks, no matter how slow you're going, the car will go completely off the tracks every time. And if you put talcom powder on the rear bumper when doing it, you can see tons of little fingerprints all over the bumper! Pretty freaky stuff!

[Zombiekilla55]

Well, I was responding to someone's post and I do believe my post was a wee bit more in the "serious talk" vein than the silly stories posted here, but I do apologize and cordially implore a mod to move my postings to the appropriate thread.
Thanks!
These stories aren't silly. Mine actually happened to me. You need to state your opinion on things being made up. You truely don't know if they are or not.

*BACK ON TOPIC*
I do have another story (true). Although it doesn't necessarily have to do with ghosts, but I do think it might be appropriate for this thread.
Last year [I was into occult (I really am trying to stear clear of religious stuff...) ] I had a vision *or so I thought* that there were three boys on the railroad close to my house. I saw them getting hit by the train. So the next day, on my way home from school, I passed the railroad. I saw three crosses beside it, with flowers, and three pictures of the boys I saw. I know this sounds phoney (atleast I know it happened). I could have sworn I saw them walking across the railroad when I got up from looking at their graves.

[Darkness]

I heard of a railroad intersection in Texas which took the lives of a bus full of children when a train hit. Rumor is that if you put your car in neutral when crossing the tracks, no matter how slow you're going, the car will go completely off the tracks every time. And if you put talcom powder on the rear bumper when doing it, you can see tons of little fingerprints all over the bumper! Pretty freaky stuff!
"You should ask T-Boy Dallas if he wants to check that one out for you." ;-)

I do have another story (true). Although it doesn't necessarily have to do with ghosts, but I do think it might be appropriate for this thread.
Last year [I was into occult (I really am trying to stear clear of religious stuff...) ] I had a vision *or so I thought* that there were three boys on the railroad close to my house. I saw them getting hit by the train. So the next day, on my way home from school, I passed the railroad. I saw three crosses beside it, with flowers, and three pictures of the boys I saw. I know this sounds phoney (atleast I know it happened). I could have sworn I saw them walking across the railroad when I got up from looking at their graves.
"That one gave me the shivers, real shivers. Thanks." :)

[Zombiekilla55]

Thanks Miss Darkness! :) It is creepy how stuff like this actually happens. :drool:

[Bub4Prez]

I believe in ghosts, although I think that a lot of the time we spook ourselves into seeing or hearing things that aren't really there. I know for a fact that I've done it from time to time. For me it's when things become consistent that I start believing there may actually be something there.

For instance.....I have a room in my house that whenever I walk into it I feel as if I am being closely followed by a large, looming figure. I don't feel frightened though as it's more of a protective sensation than anything else.

Also, there is a small girl figure that pops out from around the same corner at nearly the same time every night in the hallway. I always see her peeking around the corner, but my bf says he sees her feet only. I personally think he only sees her feet because he has a foot fetish, lol. But there seems to be some small female presence that hangs around the hallway and one of the other rooms in the house.

When I was a teenager my friends and I would do the whole walking through cemetaries at night, spooking each other, etc. We were into tarot cards and speaking to the dead, etc. One night we took a Quija board to HyVee and sat down in their eating area before someone came up to us with a bible. I have a lot of spook stories, real and unreal but it's hard to tell between some of them. Did it really happen or did we just make each other mentally shit ourselves into belief?

lol....good times.

[Dead J]

Bub that would be so scary to see a little girl in my house i would probly move lol i have watched the ring to many times i guess lol. My experience was a little creepy it was about a month or so after my grandma died she passed away in her sleep in our house.And what she used to do when i was lying on the couch watching tv she would grab my big toe as she walked by. So one morning i was half awake lying in bed i felt somebody grab on my toe and at the time it didnt really scare me i just thought it was just grandma saying hi . I believe there are spirits or ghosts but i dont think they can really harm us.

[Dead J]

well i will have to set it up in the living room then but would i get interference from any other spirits as we are only about 5 meters away from a cemetery?

Dude you have a 200 year old ghost in your house and you live 5 meters away from a cemetery? How do you sleep at nite?

[Darkness]

Dude you have a 200 year old ghost in your house and you live 5 meters away from a cemetery? How do you sleep at nite?
:lol: *Darkness falls off her seat laughing.* :lol:

"Interesting point, Dead J." ;-)


"By the way, Dead J, I was riding with my family down the freeway, coming back from a vacation, when I saw my Grandmother standing in the middle of the medium between the two sets of lanes. She waved at us as we past her, and I waved back. At the time it didn't occur to me to wonder why no one else waved at her, or why she was standing in the middle of the freeway. Two days later, when we got home, there was a message on the answering machine, dated the day I saw her, informing us that she had just died. The time of her death was almost to the second of when I saw her."

[headshotscrazy]

Dude you have a 200 year old ghost in your house and you live 5 meters away from a cemetery? How do you sleep at nite?
thats a good question how do i sleep at night! hmm its creepy that church has its lights on again and its 2 in the morning! it was the same last night at 4 in the morning maby its just a cult. oh i forgot to say my bedroom window looks right onto the cemetery how wonderful is that?

I heard of a railroad intersection in Texas which took the lives of a bus full of children when a train hit. Rumor is that if you put your car in neutral when crossing the tracks, no matter how slow you're going, the car will go completely off the tracks every time. And if you put talcom powder on the rear bumper when doing it, you can see tons of little fingerprints all over the bumper! Pretty freaky stuff!

well isn't that nice the children are trying to save people lives!

[Dead J]

:lol: *Darkness falls off her seat laughing.* :lol:

"Interesting point, Dead J." ;-)


"By the way, Dead J, I was riding with my family down the freeway, coming back from a vacation, when I saw my Grandmother standing in the middle of the medium between the two sets of lanes. She waved at us as we past her, and I waved back. At the time it didn't occur to me to wonder why no one else waved at her, or why she was standing in the middle of the freeway. Two days later, when we got home, there was a message on the answering machine, dated the day I saw her, informing us that she had just died. The time of her death was almost to the second of when I saw her."


Wow darkness that sounds like the stuff you see in the movies and im not saying your making it up but im sure u get what im saying lol. I never saw my grandma after she passed just the toe thing but I did see white dissapearing footprints on the carpet almost as the if the sun was shining on the carpet but the blinds were closed

And my mom saw my dad who passed away only 4 months earlier standing at the edge of the bed at my brothers house .

thats a good question how do i sleep at night! hmm its creepy that church has its lights on again and its 2 in the morning! it was the same last night at 4 in the morning maby its just a cult. oh i forgot to say my bedroom window looks right onto the cemetery how wonderful is that?





Well if your up at 2 and at 4 am maybe u dont sleep at nite much . Headshot your house sounds like it would make for a great horror movie .

[Leeboy]

"I do get a lot of visits from my cats that have passed. I can sometimes feel them curling up beside me in their 'favorite spots', as I'm laying there slowly falling asleep."

Yeah, I get visits from my cats too, Darkness. But most of them aren't as good as yours are.

Like, for example. My cat Bostwick got hit in the head by a car and we had to take him to the vet. He had his mouth stuck open for weeks like a stroke victim and we had to feed him with a syringe, but eventually he recovered and I was happy. Then, four months after he got hit, he just suddenly died. My mom put him down in the basement for the night because he might smell and get ants and stuff everywhere from his body, and said she'd bury him in the morning. I was given the understanding he was cold, had no pulse, was dead. Now the basement is right below my room, and I was sitting there watching cartoons and I hear this meow . . . . So, I just thought I was being punished for something and turned the TV up ignoring it. Kept hearing the meows for three days.
And then, a year later my little kitten Zeke was dying and I went back to my room mad and angry because this kept happening to me, and all of a sudden I felt this . . . evil presence, so evil it makes me scareder than hell even writing this, like Bostwick was mad that I had let him die . . . I don't know. I was scared shitless, I can tell you. Like . . . he wanted me to get what I deserved, wanted to kill me.
I ran the hell out of that room.

[Dead J]

Darkness im not sure if you have heard if this movie but its a documentray that claims it "proves the most convincing about the existence of the supernatural"
its called GHOST ADVENTURES I know it sounds a little cheesy but the trailer looks really creepy. Anyways i really want to see this movie heres the link

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=94806581

[headshotscrazy]

Well if your up at 2 and at 4 am maybe u dont sleep at nite much . Headshot your house sounds like it would make for a great horror movie .

does it? well lets make house of the dead 2! im sure it will be even worse than house of the dead 1.

[triple6]

I have another one that i had forgotten because it came natural at my house, this one happens in my basement (we moved into a new house when this happened) ok, when this one happened i always would see some sot of dark evil presence when i encountered it, i never have encountered it directly but, trust me, seeing at a distance is good enough, alright whenever i go past the top step down into my basement i would see a big, dark figure, something that resembled a man, but whenever i went down there i would always miss it, but then as i went back up the stairs i felt a chill go up my spine and the room get colder, then sometimes when i went on my old computer i would see out the reflection of the glass and see the same dark figure walk by, then the same thing would happen, this ghost never seemed to harm us or do anything out of place, in fact it helped us, it would sometimes make strange things happen to keep people out, for example, there was this person who was mean and would egg peoples houses all the tme, noone in the neighborhood liked him, his family was disfunctional and the kid was ugly, but one time he tried to egg our house, but as his bike pulled up in front a box of tacks i had put on top of my car fell off and landed straight at the middle of the street, popping his front tire and making him fly off into the lake near our house, the thing was odd was i placed the tack box on the middle of the car with no wind and we had a wide street which would have probably have been 9 feet to the middle so there was no way that was an accident, my cousin was even there watching what happened with me, and ever since then the ghost always seemed to come like something ordinary to us.

[Sambob]

I wouldn't say I was a skeptic but most of the time noises and strange feelings I have can be put down to general house noises and the fact that it's 2 in the morning etc. but I always get this really wierd feeling that someone is watching me from behind or following me up the stairs when I'm going to my room and it's night. Doesn't even have to be dark but whenever I go upstairs at night I get the same feeling.

I think their might be one or more enteties that aren't entirely corporeal in my house. I even gave one of them a name, he is called Harold no idea why that name came to me.

I think these feelings that we weren't totally alone in this house started about two weeks after we moved in (about six years ago). I had a really bad nightmare that the house was being attacked by ghosts, sounds daft I know, but in the nightmare I remember looking out of my window at the garden and it being full of dead people that all wanted to get in the house, I remember trying to confinve my parents what was going on but they couldn't see anything wrong. I woke up quite scared.

If I really tried I could probably prove everything that is making me think these things was completely normal, but for some reason I don't think it would stop me being freaked out by them.

[Bub4Prez]

I get the same feeling when I'm walking back up the stairs from my basement. Yeah I know..OoooOOOooOOoooo basement boogermen!!! ARRRRGHHH! But seriously....ever since I've lived in this house I get the sensation that I'm watched while I'm in the basement. It doesn't matter if it's day or not, although I scare myself more about it at night. It's more intense when I either go to the area by the heater or I'm walking back upstairs. In fact, the feeling I get is that something is chasing me out of the basement, through the garage and into the house. Once I shut the door to the house it's no big whoop.

Now....since I'm older I've of course changed my thoughts on this whole experience. Now when I get that sensation I usually turn around and look. I've never seen anything but the sensation doesn't stop. As far as 'seeing' that's typically in the main part of the house and not the basement.

When I was a teen I had a friend that claimed to be able to converse with ghosts (not 100% believer in this) and she said there was a pissed ghost trapped in our basement that fed off of fear and sent evil squirrels after me when I left the room. Ridiculous but being a gullible teen it kept me out of the basement for a looooooooooong time.

[Sambob]

Now....since I'm older I've of course changed my thoughts on this whole experience. Now when I get that sensation I usually turn around and look. I've never seen anything but the sensation doesn't stop. As far as 'seeing' that's typically in the main part of the house and not the basement.

That's how it has become with me now. I have had to force myself to turn around and see that there is nothing there and it's just a figment of my imagination. Doesn't stop it happening though.

[jackskellington]

...she said there was a pissed ghost trapped in our basement that fed off of fear and sent evil squirrels after me when I left the room.

:lol: Hilarious!! I'm in no way dogging on your experience...I just got a big kick out of the 'evil squirrel' thing! As for basement fears, I had those same feelings coming up the stairs from the basement in the house I lived in as a teenager.

[Bub4Prez]

I'm in no way offended at all! I find it quite funny myself. I forgot to mention that these evil squirrels also flew.

I can't remember what she said to me to get the ghost to leave. She told me his name and said that if I ever said it aloud again after he left then he would come back. I can't remember his name.

I had another friend though that claimed she was psychically raped by a ghost named Fred. I'm serious in that she was very serious about this having happened. I wish I could remember all the details surrounding her experience but I can't. I tend to forget details to stories that are just too far fetched when being claimed they are true.

I'm fairly open minded about ghosts....but ghosts that rape you psychically and flying evil squirrel ghosts? Ehhhhhhh........

[Book]

I'll be going here: http://www.ghostseekers-of-michigan.com/investigations.html

in three weekends with some co-workers. This is one of the very few places that I haven't visiited in Michigan/Ohio/Indiana. I am sure a good time will be had by all. Giggle.

[Darkness]

:clap: "Way cool, Book!! Let us know if you spy anything usual, okay?" :)

[Dead J]

I know what u guys mean buy that creepy feeling you get when u think something is following you or chasing you and all the lights are off and all u want to do is piss or get a snack lol .I usually get that after i read a stephen king book.

[T-Boy Dallas]

Update on my thing:

Well it appears that other people have had negative experiences with the elevator I spoke about. And, now that it gets closer to Halloween it’s starting to take on eerie ‘Urban Legend’ feel of a ‘Haunted Elevator’.

I came in a Saturday morning since I had missed a day due to bad weather, well for the first few hours nothing happened. But about noon we had lunch and a couple of the weekend workers started to talk, of course being close to Halloween they started to talk about a Haunted House that’s put on locally and then slowly evolved to the topic of the elevator.

This is where it gets funny.

So I’m eating and they’re talking retelling the general story I heard but with some additional facts. Instead of being an accident, it apparently was a murder in which the foremen planned on getting rid of the guy because the electrician/elevator installer was having an affair with his wife and gotten her pregnant. Also instead of 10pm it happened at midnight and supposedly the elevator didn’t kill him right away and he lingered there over the weekend. Because we all know that a several ton elevator won’t turn you into paste right away right?

What was added next was the most unique. “If at midnight, you go up to the elevator send it up to the top floor and then call it down, wait till it’ll it’s almost at the ground floor and knock against the elevator door something will knock back panicked till it reaches the floor and the doors open.”

[R-Complex]

Update on my thing:

Well it appears that other people have had negative experiences with the elevator I spoke about. And, now that it gets closer to Halloween it’s starting to take on eerie ‘Urban Legend’ feel of a ‘Haunted Elevator’.

I came in a Saturday morning since I had missed a day due to bad weather, well for the first few hours nothing happened. But about noon we had lunch and a couple of the weekend workers started to talk, of course being close to Halloween they started to talk about a Haunted House that’s put on locally and then slowly evolved to the topic of the elevator.

This is where it gets funny.

So I’m eating and they’re talking retelling the general story I heard but with some additional facts. Instead of being an accident, it apparently was a murder in which the foremen planned on getting rid of the guy because the electrician/elevator installer was having an affair with his wife and gotten her pregnant. Also instead of 10pm it happened at midnight and supposedly the elevator didn’t kill him right away and he lingered there over the weekend. Because we all know that a several ton elevator won’t turn you into paste right away right?

What was added next was the most unique. “If at midnight, you go up to the elevator send it up to the top floor and then call it down, wait till it’ll it’s almost at the ground floor and knock against the elevator door something will knock back panicked till it reaches the floor and the doors open.”
That is awesome! I love to actually see the whole gestation process of urban legends and folklore taking place.

When I was a kid my family moved to the darkest, most remote forests of Oregon. Our driveway was a gravel road that stretched for over a mile before it hit asphalt; our nearest neighbor was over two miles away. So the previous owner of this house had a massive heart attack and died on the roof a few months before. And his elderly wife had no idea what had happened to him and didn't report him missing until several days later where the police eventually found his corpse on the roof (mind you this is Oregon, and the house had a level roof with no slant to easily allow rainfall to slide off. So the guy's body had been festering in mossy rainwater for days). So growing up there we had many ghostly experiences: I remember hearing glass breaking in the kitchen after everyone was asleep only to go out and find nothing but an open cabinet drawer.The obligatory stomping on the roof, the sound of a body collapsing heavily as well. Pale, moss encrusted faces peering through the windows.....

One night when I was about 8, I awoke to an odd sound, a sweeping or brushing sound that emanated from the corner of the room's ceiling. I stared into the darkness until my eyes adjusted and I saw a writhing mass of human-shaped shadow rolling across the ceiling and emitting a low guttural moan. It was like a tangle of hair sculpted into a person's form that was twitching and quivering. I then remember drifting back into sleep as if I had no control over my body. My brothers had similar tales of ghostly occurences and horrific encounters.

Of course it turned out that there never was a guy who died on the roof. In fact the previous owners were a young hippy couple that had moved to Portland since the husband had been promoted in his law firm. To this day I have no idea who instigated the legend of the guy dying up there: my older brother maybe, my dad telling tall tales, a schoolmate mentioning it- I don't know. Anyway, the folklore was so persuasive that over the years we'd invented ghostly scenarios where none were. Our imaginations were so attuned to expecting the unusual that any creak or groan was amplified as stomping corpses or screaming ghosts. I believe my "shadow ceiling" dream was the result of hypnagogic sleep hyped up by my expectations.

I was lucky enough to experience an urban legend from beginning to end. That's pretty damned cool.

[Leeboy]

Sweeeeeet!

[Darkness]

"Great tales, folks! I love reading about what you have experienced."

"And it's true, not all 'spooky noises' are ghosts, and not all silence is empty of spiritual activity. I would not believe in them myself, if I hadn't experienced one personally, with all my senses intact. And I don't expect anyone else to believe in them blindly."

[Book]

In another thread we were discussing haunted houses and whatnot and the whole "well are ghost even real?" came up. I spent a few years working with different programs, teachers, students, ect that were more interested in the science of the subject than "ghostbusting". One of my friends in this program wrote a paper about long term effects of depression based on exposure to hauntings. I personally didn't see much in what he was trying to find but I had a WONDERFUL oportunity to meet many people that either worked or lived in a haunted place.
The other thread got a bit sidetracked from haunted houses to "Are they even real?" and that is when I found the topic the most interesting, so I wanted to branch out into this one. I know they have something like this over in General Horror, but those kids are on a roll with their own topic and I don't want to interupt it.
So what do you think? Are they real? Why or why not?
I do think they are real, but they are nothing most people, especially those self styled "ghost hunters" think they are. The camp I was in was mostly :These are moments in time, and for some reason they are played over and over again. We can no more figure out why than a cave man can split an atom. I am sure we will know why some day, but not today. But I would really like to hear what everyone else thinks about it.

[jackskellington]

I believe they are real but as for the 'moments in history that replay themselves', I'm not so sure. I mean, I DO believe that happens in certain geographical locations and that those instances are commonly mistaken for 'ghosts', but I don't believe that's what every haunting can be attributed to. I posted a story in Darkness' thread, (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showpost.php?p=227569&postcount=56), about an alleged haunted house that I lived in for a while and I'm certain those weren't just parts of history replaying themselves. I do agree, though, that most of these ghost hunter shows are simply witnessing those instances of history that replay. IMO, genuine hauntings are very few and far between.

[R-Complex]

I feel like such a wuss for not starting a thread like this! I've posted my opinion(s) in a couple of other threads but held back for fear of derailing or risking inciting the ire of mods. My views on Ghosts (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?p=234690#post234690) and revenants (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?p=234477#post234477) and spirits (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?p=228132#post228132) and immortality (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?p=199562#post199562) (this whole thread is a good one!...)

Well, I don't believe there's any evidence for an afterlife, nor do I find any evidence to support any space-time temporal glitches to explain ghost claims. Book, I responded in the Orbs thread (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?p=228101#post228101)to your time repetiton theory, so I'll cut and paste the question:

Your idea of “replayed events” reminds me of Arthur C Clarke’s World of Strange Powers show where he investigated afterlife claims. Some guy (hey, it was 20+ years ago!) claimed he could hear the crowd noise that had been recorded onto an ancient pottery wheel. The vague claim was that ghosts are “recorded” onto the atmosphere by some unknown mechanism and hauntings are merely a replaying of that event that had been recorded into the grooves of time. So the afterlife was basically the same thing as old vinyl. Please expound!

I apologize if I'm harassing you Book but I find your opinion interesting; I have known few atheists that believed in anything similar (though there have been a rare few).

I think psychology, sociology and cultural anthropological explanations are more than sufficient to expose the phenomena for what it is: human's predilection for imposing patterns on their environment as filtered through cultural preconceptions. We are as non-existent after our deaths as we are before our conception. What composes who we are is dissipated, collapsed into inert matter and dispersed amongst the cosmos after the physiological processes we call "life" have ceased. Done and done. :-P

[Ark]

Nope. Pure, 100% fiction and made-for-TV bullshit. In my opinion.

[Dead J]

Heres a cool link I found top 10 most real life ghost pictures

http://english.pravda.ru/photo/report/album-1042

[Brian De Palma]

I have experienced some weird shite in my time and can't chalk it up to anything in particular, expecially ghosts or other para / supernatural phenomenon even if I'd like too

Is it just a coincidence that none of us know anyone ever who has had an experience with a ghost ? Don't ya think we may hear more about it if it was true ?

I wish it was; but it is not IMO

[The Blind Dead]

I think psychology, sociology and cultural anthropological explanations are more than sufficient to expose the phenomena for what it is: human's predilection for imposing patterns on their environment as filtered through cultural preconceptions. We are as non-existent after our deaths as we are before our conception. What composes who we are is dissipated, collapsed into inert matter and dispersed amongst the cosmos after the physiological processes we call "life" have ceased. Done and done.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

[T-Boy Dallas]

Heres a cool link I found top 10 most real life ghost pictures

http://english.pravda.ru/photo/report/album-1042

I'm afraid all most all of those photos have been proven to be hoaxes. Sorry buddy.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

Nope...no ghosts. There's just no solid, repeatable proof for any of it. As for people who say they've had experiences being "liars." I wouldn't go so far to say that. While I think that, yes, there are people out there who flat out lie, and even take something shaky and exaggerate it into something else. But I also think there are people out there who truly feel as if they've experienced something paranormal, and rather than explain it rationally, they choose to go in the other direction--I feel this happens for two reasons: 1) people's perceptions, as much as they generally get us through the day, are not always reliable. They are apparently enough for some people as far as "ghosts" are concerned, but they aren't enough for court, the law, or scientific research. Go ask some cops, judges, and scientists. If paranormal researchers held themselves to the same strict, and more thorough standards, I suspect most things paranormal would have either been proved or disproved a long time ago. And 2) people desperately need to feel special, and if nothing is going on in their lives that makes them feel as such, they will make themselves feel spceial by inventing something out of practically nothing. See something out of the corner of your eye? Ghost! Look, you're so special that a ghost revealed itself to you. Wow.

Now, I don't want to hear any crap about "Oh, you've just never experienced anything." (Or, the one I like..."They'd never show themselves to you because you're a skeptic and you're non-receptive because of it"--I like that one because I keep hearing story after story about people's paranormal experiences, and they almost always follow it up with "And, you have to understand, I was a total skeptic before this!"--this raises two comments, 1) if that is indeed true, then they're not doing their math right when they're telling me I'll never experience anything (proving that they're merely trying to cover their asses when I never do see anything), and 2) they're admitting that they won't be taken seriously if they say they weren't a skeptic...calling themselves skeptics gives them a certain amount of credibility...which should give them a hint about things in general :)). I have had my own experiences, from supposed "ghosts" to "out of body experinces." The difference between me and most people is that I don't need something otherwordly in my life to make me feel special, and hence I have no motivation to make it into something it's not. Therefore, I can easily find rational explanations for my experiences, so far having been tricks of the light, and a temporary sleep disorder. :roll:

[chewy]

The camp I was in was mostly :These are moments in time, and for some reason they are played over and over again.

Then how do you explain poltergeist cases where they interact with people or objects in their current environment?

[ZombieJohn]

didn't darkness start a thread on this?

[headshotscrazy]

yes she did and your on that thread!

[Darkness]

"Welcome, all, to this thread. Know this, I don't expect anyone to believe in ghost or spirits blindly. We are all entitled to our own ideas and opinions. As in all things, there will always be two sides to the coin." :)

"That said, lets have some fun and talk 'Ghosts'." :)

[Book]

I feel like such a wuss for not starting a thread like this! I've posted my opinion(s) in a couple of other threads but held back for fear of derailing or risking inciting the ire of mods. My views on Ghosts (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?p=234690#post234690) and revenants (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?p=234477#post234477) and spirits (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?p=228132#post228132) and immortality (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?p=199562#post199562) (this whole thread is a good one!...)

Well, I don't believe there's any evidence for an afterlife, nor do I find any evidence to support any space-time temporal glitches to explain ghost claims. Book, I responded in the Orbs thread (http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?p=228101#post228101)to your time repetiton theory, so I'll cut and paste the question:

Your idea of “replayed events” reminds me of Arthur C Clarke’s World of Strange Powers show where he investigated afterlife claims. Some guy (hey, it was 20+ years ago!) claimed he could hear the crowd noise that had been recorded onto an ancient pottery wheel. The vague claim was that ghosts are “recorded” onto the atmosphere by some unknown mechanism and hauntings are merely a replaying of that event that had been recorded into the grooves of time. So the afterlife was basically the same thing as old vinyl. Please expound!

I apologize if I'm harassing you Book but I find your opinion interesting; I have known few atheists that believed in anything similar (though there have been a rare few).

I think psychology, sociology and cultural anthropological explanations are more than sufficient to expose the phenomena for what it is: human's predilection for imposing patterns on their environment as filtered through cultural preconceptions. We are as non-existent after our deaths as we are before our conception. What composes who we are is dissipated, collapsed into inert matter and dispersed amongst the cosmos after the physiological processes we call "life" have ceased. Done and done. :-P


Don't get me wrong R-complex, I don't believe there is an afterlife or souls or anything of that nature, so I have no reason to think that these 'ghost" are the souls of the dead or anything of the dead for that matter. A ghost would be no different that a photo of someone that had died or a video of them. There has been situations where people have claimed comunication with these ghost, but what ever happened in these moments would be the same as saying "I talked to this hologram and it told me the barn was on fire." I think these moments of communication are interpreted under the stress of the incident and I doubt anyone has ever spoken with a ghost.

[Book]

Then how do you explain poltergeist cases where they interact with people or objects in their current environment?


Thank you for bringing that one up Chewy. In another thread I mentioned to R complex that in almost all cases of poltergiest, there is a perimenstrual or menopausal female in the home. I think, and so do a few other paranormal students, that they are the epicenter of this phenomena. Combine it with a little latent telekenetic ability and you will get what is described as "nosiy ghost". Since stress probably makes it worse it will seem like the "ghost" are flipping out more and more by throwing things around, slamming doors, or breaking shit. But when the females get into another phase the ghost seem to calm down and disapear altogether. Again, no way to know if there is a real connection between the two, just speculation.
There are also a few cases where there was a mentally handicap adolecent or parapalegic. I'll do a search to see if I can find them since I don't recall any of the details, just the writer trying to link the two.

[R-Complex]

...A ghost would be no different that a photo of someone that had died or a video of them. There has been situations where people have claimed comunication with these ghost, but what ever happened in these moments would be the same as saying "I talked to this hologram and it told me the barn was on fire." I think these moments of communication are interpreted under the stress of the incident and I doubt anyone has ever spoken with a ghost.
I know you mentioned already that the mechanism for such a phenomena has yet to be uncovered (or may never be uncovered), but shouldn't the actual phenomena be substantiated before any attempt at explaining the workings of it are even made? We can postulate all sorts of intricate descriptions of the inner workings of telepathy, reincarnation or pyrokinesis, but introducing tachyons, quantum mechanics or string theory do nothing to actually support the validity of the phenomena. I can make up all manner of explanations of how precognition might work, but without actually showing it exists, you're building a hypothesis on an empty foundation. Simply put, though your idea does avoid the messy philosophical and scientific issues of life after death, it does nothing to actually sustantiate anything unusual even happening in the first place. Witness unreliability, embellishment, the human predilection for (mis)remembering based on personal beliefs- all are more parsimonous reasons for hauntings than any alternative yet proposed.
...in almost all cases of poltergiest, there is a perimenstrual or menopausal female in the home. I think, and so do a few other paranormal students, that they are the epicenter of this phenomena.
You said "perimenstrual"....:mrgreen:
I agree, but not that there's anything paranormal here. Most cases do involve adolescents; pre-teens and teens tend to think the world revolves around them. That's the perfect age with which to hoax (http://skepdic.com/poltergeist.html) a phenomena to draw attention to themselves (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_5_29/ai_n15400028). The rather tragic Tina Resch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Resch)story is an infamous example.

Combine it with a little latent telekenetic ability and you will get what is described as "nosiy ghost". Since stress probably makes it worse it will seem like the "ghost" are flipping out more and more by throwing things around, slamming doors, or breaking shit. But when the females get into another phase the ghost seem to calm down and disapear altogether. Again, no way to know if there is a real connection between the two, just speculation.
I think replacing the poltergeist/afterlife hypothesis with psychokinesis is exchanging one miracle for another. There is no evidence to support psychokinetic abilities or telepathy or the whole pantheon of psychic claims. I've never seen a poltergeist event hold up under scrutiny; nor telepathy, telekinesis, cryokinesis, clairavoyance, etc.-these are brazen hoaxes, mistakes in interpretation, or natural occurences exaggerated into supernatural importance.

There are also a few cases where there was a mentally handicap adolecent or parapalegic. I'll do a search to see if I can find them since I don't recall any of the details, just the writer trying to link the two.

Cool! Let's hear 'em! :)

[zombieslayer69]

Im sure most of the stuff on Ghost Hunters is fake but the Stanley Hotel, from the shining, looked pretty real to me. A closet door that cant close at all the way, opens up by itself and closes and shuts completely. I dont know abou yall, but i believe in that one. Theres even a Steven King book and movie about it. but it could all be a hoax.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

I think replacing the poltergeist/afterlife hypothesis with psychokinesis is exchanging one miracle for another. There is no evidence to support psychokinetic abilities or telepathy or the whole pantheon of psychic claims. I've never seen a poltergeist event hold up under scrutiny; nor telepathy, telekinesis, cryokinesis, clairavoyance, etc.-these are brazen hoaxes, mistakes in interpretation, or natural occurences exaggerated into supernatural importance.


Thank you. It's like parapsychologists who insist on using "psychics" in their investigations. It's using one thing that has yet to be proven to prove something else that has yet to be proven. Ah, but parapsychologists will say "Well, it's been proven enough in our circles to warrent usage." Can you imagine a physicist, or an engineer, or a biological researcher trying to pull something like that? That's part of why parapsychology can't get anywhere. That and the fact that it refuses to use the same sort of peer review techniques that other scientists use, not to mention that it's work is both self-cannibalistic and incestuous--meaning, there is only a handful of people doing it and all of their articles can only refer to either themsleves, or each other. That's not helpful. Granted, the sceintific community at large needs to be more responsive if any progress could ever be made in parapsycholgy, but that won't happen until parapsychologists start producing real results. They won't do that until they start using proven, acceptable scientific methods, and they have to stop doing silly things like using these so-called psychics in their research. By all means, research the psychics, but don't use them as proof of something else equally as intangible.

The other thing is...how long does it take to produce thse results. There are hundreds of theories out there, most of which have zero backing them up in any way--but no proof as of yet. For any of it. At what point to these people look around them and finally admit that there may not be anything there in the first place? If there's a reasonable explanation for phenomena, there's no shame in finding it out and allowing it to be the reason/cause. Just because it's not some magical thing doesn't make it any less interesting, and more importantly, any less real. In fact, it's just the opposite.

It seems to me that they really don't need to bother with any of it, since most people seem perfectly willing to just accept whatever anyone tells them is true. They're also unwilling to think critically about their own experiences, which is sad.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

Im sure most of the stuff on Ghost Hunters is fake but the Stanley Hotel, from the shining, looked pretty real to me. A closet door that cant close at all the way, opens up by itself and closes and shuts completely. I dont know abou yall, but i believe in that one. Theres even a Steven King book and movie about it. but it could all be a hoax.

I don't understand...which is it? Is it real to you, or is it a hoax?

[zombieslayer69]

I don't understand...which is it? Is it real to you, or is it a hoax?

I think the Stanley Hotel one is real to me, but some of the other episodes seem really fake.

[Book]

I know you mentioned already that the mechanism for such a phenomena has yet to be uncovered (or may never be uncovered), but shouldn't the actual phenomena be substantiated before any attempt at explaining the workings of it are even made? We can postulate all sorts of intricate descriptions of the inner workings of telepathy, reincarnation or pyrokinesis, but introducing tachyons, quantum mechanics or string theory do nothing to actually support the validity of the phenomena. I can make up all manner of explanations of how precognition might work, but without actually showing it exists, you're building a hypothesis on an empty foundation. Simply put, though your idea does avoid the messy philosophical and scientific issues of life after death, it does nothing to actually sustantiate anything unusual even happening in the first place. Witness unreliability, embellishment, the human predilection for (mis)remembering based on personal beliefs- all are more parsimonous reasons for hauntings than any alternative yet proposed.

You said "perimenstrual"....:mrgreen:
I agree, but not that there's anything paranormal here. Most cases do involve adolescents; pre-teens and teens tend to think the world revolves around them. That's the perfect age with which to hoax (http://skepdic.com/poltergeist.html) a phenomena to draw attention to themselves (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_5_29/ai_n15400028). The rather tragic Tina Resch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Resch)story is an infamous example.


I think replacing the poltergeist/afterlife hypothesis with psychokinesis is exchanging one miracle for another. There is no evidence to support psychokinetic abilities or telepathy or the whole pantheon of psychic claims. I've never seen a poltergeist event hold up under scrutiny; nor telepathy, telekinesis, cryokinesis, clairavoyance, etc.-these are brazen hoaxes, mistakes in interpretation, or natural occurences exaggerated into supernatural importance.



Cool! Let's hear 'em! :)

Whoa. I think you misunderstood a lot of what I was saying. None of what I suggested is concrete at all. This is about just as much pie-in-the-sky speculation as anything else, I was just removing the afterlife aspect of it. I also passed off, badly, theroies and conceps that were contemplated by people who make this a life study, have better educations that I do, and are skeptics. This was more "it could be this or that" rather than "It's my dead grandma and she is pissed I was masturbating the other day!". I would go with the "repeating moment in time and space" suggestion before that. But like the theory of evoluion, it may not be right but it's better than the alternative.

I know I didn't explain the psi part of the dicussion well because at that moment I was pressed for time. I wasn't talking about a Carrie or a Charlie from Firestarter here. If there is any latent telekenetic abilities in anyone I doubt it is powerful enough to push tin foil across a table or is it anything realized. I am pretty closed minded when it comes to matters of the spiritual but I'll happily accept extra servings of anything about potential. No, this isn't X men and I don't envision a world where people can shut the door with a blink of the eye. It's more along the lines of the 110 lb woman pushing a car off of her husband after an accident. We have barely scratched the surface as to what we ourselves are capable of much less the rest of the natural world. I totally agree that a lot of the demonic possessions and poltergiest are probably emos' pitching a b!tch or sadly, like in that movie about Emily Rose, a mental sickness that can twist the body and the mind into monsterous porportions.
Which brings up something else I was thinking about on my way home and that is how we cannot really trust even ourselves. You can be sitting there typing on your computer and you look suddenly to your left and you see a demon sitting there drinking Red Bull and giggling about your lame post. You jump back and the demon and Red Bull is gone. If I had seen that the first think I would think would be "aaaaahh shit. This is what happens when you spend your teenage years on 'cid." and would make an appointment to get an MRI the next day. But most people would be totally convinced of what they saw and would even let it influence them the rest of their lives. It would never occure to them that anything can make your senses betray you. Ask a stroke victim how fun that is. One mifire of a snyaps and suddenly broccoli smells like oranges. If you took the thousand upon thousand reports and cases of ghost, ufo, or cryptozoological eye witness accounts you just made a grocery list of people that probably need to get some blood pressure medication stat!
Faulty human wiring with a dash of supernatural paranoia, a dolop of irrational spiritual belief, with a side of Hollywood and you have a souffle of the supernatual...BAM!

[Darkness]

"What about 'Group Experiences'? Where a group of people see the same 'visitation', at the same time? Can you explain that one?" :)

[Book]

"What about 'Group Experiences'? Where a group of people see the same 'visitation', at the same time? Can you explain that one?" :)


Sure, just like I can explain why a bunch of little girls saw devils and witches in Salem, MA a while back. Hysteria.

[Darkness]

"It wasn't the same thing. There were no drugs, drink, or weird stories involved. It was just a group of us in an old apartment of mine. We all saw the things move. The lights were all on, no shadows to play tricks or anything."

[R-Complex]

It's like parapsychologists who insist on using "psychics" in their investigations. It's using one thing that has yet to be proven to prove something else that has yet to be proven. Ah, but parapsychologists will say "Well, it's been proven enough in our circles to warrent usage." Can you imagine a physicist, or an engineer, or a biological researcher trying to pull something like that?
Hells no! They’d be outta the ivory tower before anyone could say “tenure”- and rightfully so. That reminds me of the various “ghost enthusiasts” who lug around a baffling array of electronic equipment as a badge of just how serious and scientific minded they are. Of course they have little practical knowledge of how to use the devices then react excitedly when an EMF meter detects a fluctuation (it would be more amazing if the meters didn’t react- our world is inundated with EMFs). And don’t get me started on the heat sensitive cameras.... You’d think these guys had never taken a physics class or actually read the instructions on how to operate the equipment.
That's part of why parapsychology can't get anywhere. That and the fact that it refuses to use the same sort of peer review techniques that other scientists use, not to mention that it's work is both self-cannibalistic and incestuous--meaning, there is only a handful of people doing it and all of their articles can only refer to either themsleves, or each other.
And look at the circle jerk that composes parapsychology: Charles Tart, Jeffrey Mishlove, Raymond Moody- hardly a stellar cast. Have you attempted to tackle any of their papers? Try reading some of Tart’s stuff (http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ctt_articles1.cfm)published in various parapsychology journals, particularly the ASPR (http://www.aspr.com/). On second thought, don’t bother; they’re full of gems like this:

Unacknowledged fears of psi can create unconsciously motivated behaviors that inhibit and/or distort the operation of psi in the laboratory. Observations suggest that unacknowledged fear of psi is widespread among parapsychologists, as well as others. The ingenious approaches of K. Batcheldor and J. Isaacs for producing psi may be effective because they bypass fears of psi, but have long-term limitations through not dealing directly with it.

In other words, if the investigator has any attitude other than anticipation and acceptance it will make the magic go away. Fear, skepticism or anything contrary to blind belief might make the psi puff into the aether. Oh yeah, and titles like “Human Aura: More Complex Than We Think” had me laughing out loud. Good shit!
The other thing is...how long does it take to produce thse results. There are hundreds of theories out there, most of which have zero backing them up in any way--but no proof as of yet. For any of it. At what point to these people look around them and finally admit that there may not be anything there in the first place?
Beautiful point. Ann Druyan made a similar statement in a recent podcast (Point of Inquiry?) where she was referring to ID specifically, but it could be applied to the paranormal in general: The scientific method’s inception can be traced back to the ancient Greeks, but it was refined as the practical tool it is for today’s scientists in the hearths of the enlightenment(s) during the 17th century. The scientific approach with it’s methods, demands for replication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproducibility), susceptibility to being falsified (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiable), etc., are quite young. Yet in the mere four centuries and a handful of decades since then we’ve cracked atoms, described DNA, unfurled the human genome, released humans from Earth’s gravity- all using these simple yet incredibly accurate and powerful scientific tools. What have inquiries into magical realms dredged up? Nothing! Absolutely nothing in all of human history has anything that would violate the scientific evidence been found frozen in amber, exposed in quantum packets, or found pulsing away in the mitochondria of a cell. No ghosts in the machine here.
It seems to me that they really don't need to bother with any of it, since most people seem perfectly willing to just accept whatever anyone tells them is true. They're also unwilling to think critically about their own experiences, which is sad.
Sad indeed. Tradition is a powerful thing: ethnic groups, religious ideologies, nationalistic commitments- all are powerful inclinations written into pack mammal’s genes and superstitious thinking is just another vestige of our primate ways.
Whoa. I think you misunderstood a lot of what I was saying. None of what I suggested is concrete at all. This is about just as much pie-in-the-sky speculation as anything else, I was just removing the afterlife aspect of it.
That’s cool- really, I assumed as much. I’m a complete nerd (no-really!:) ). I can’t count the number of hours my friends and I have sat around discussing various plausible ways Colossus could transform his body into steel (we settled on wave-particle duality), or just how the scanners could make Michael Ironside’s veins burst (hydrokinesis- the ability to manipulate liquids with one’s mind- in this case via the EPR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_Paradox) paradox). All of fiction is “pie in the sky” imagining and making shit up to help explain something no matter how implausible it may be. Imagination is important- I just have problems with people mistakenly applying imaginative conjecture with reality, particularly when the answers are readily available.
This was more "it could be this or that" rather than "It's my dead grandma and she is pissed I was masturbating the other day!". I would go with the "repeating moment in time and space" suggestion before that.
I was going to insert a tasteless joke here but I think my mentioning such will be sufficient.
Faulty human wiring with a dash of supernatural paranoia, a dolop of irrational spiritual belief, with a side of Hollywood and you have a souffle of the supernatual...BAM!
Mmmmm... supernaturalicious. :drool:
"What about 'Group Experiences'? Where a group of people see the same 'visitation', at the same time? Can you explain that one?"
Mass hysteria (http://skeptically.org/skepticism/id11.html)(running the gamut from small groups to entire movements) has a long history of study; the first comprehensive investigation probably goes back to the publication of Mackay’s book Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds in 1841. Though its examination of Tulipomania and South Sea Bubble schemes are now outdated, it does conclusively show how normal, hard working, thoughtful folks can get caught up in irrational movements. (Joseph Bulgatz’s unofficial sequel Ponzi Schemes is really good too). I think most people here remember the mass hysteria surrounding Y2K claims- none of which were really taken seriously by institutions such as banks that were allegedly at risk. It’s a subtle, but recent example of mass delusion whipped up by media hysteria. Hell, Orson Wells’ classic War of the Worlds broadcast is a textbook case of mass hysteria! And Book mentioned the Salem witch trials as well... Good call!
"It wasn't the same thing. There were no drugs, drink, or weird stories involved. It was just a group of us in an old apartment of mine. We all saw the things move. The lights were all on, no shadows to play tricks or anything."
Same principles involved. Friends can influence each other's perceptions of an event. Without much more than an anecdote it's impossible to have much of an opinion either way. I do think it's incumbent on you, the claimant, to provide evidence supporting anything unusual occurring. The onus is not on us, but on those who make the allegation.

And here's some videos of various psychokinetic tricksters at work (just because I felt like posting 'em):
Nina! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMj_bgzCUw8)
Decent spoonbender (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6IUNOgIGzA)
Ha! This guy and the guy above both bought the same magic effect from the dealer...! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-CHVWnGYOg&mode=related&search=)

[Darkness]

Same principles involved. Friends can influence each other's perceptions of an event. Without much more than an anecdote it's impossible to have much of an opinion either way. I do think it's incumbent on you, the claimant, to provide evidence supporting anything unusual occurring. The onus is not on us, but on those who make the allegation.
"But none of that applies to the situation we were in. See, there is one of the problems in debating the existence of ghosts, and other such entities. The only way to have proof of the experience, is to experience it. There were no strings attached, or tricks, going on in the apartment. No outside influence. We were just sitting around watching some comedy on T.V."

"Plus I never asked you to prove anything, I was just courious as to how you guys would explain it. I have stated many times before, belief is in the eye of the beholder. This is serious chat, not a debate. I am not out to prove I'm right, nor am I out to prove you wrong. I just like to talk about ghost and hear other people's stories of what they have, or think they have, experienced." ;-)

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

The only way to have proof of the experience, is to experience it.

...or for "researchers" to produce some viable, scientific proof. But, you're right, experiencing something that can't be rationally explained would help. And I'm not talking a wispy bit here that could be anything, or a blur from the corner of my eye. I want a full body apparition three feet in front of me, for longer than 5 seconds. People say they see these things all the time...so, why not? But that hasn't happened yet, which is weird, because if I go on what people tell me, paranormal experiences in general are rather common. Can someone explain why I live in Gettyburg--supposedly uber-haunted--and I am all the time in a position to experience something paranormal (I've even set up cameras in reputedly haunted places...yes, the park service here is a bitch, by the way), but nothing. That being said, there's consistently stories of people who visit from out of town, once, for two days, and they go home thinking this place is a regular spook-fest.

I suppose Tart's piece above could explain. :):roll:

This is serious chat, not a debate.

We weren't allowed to talk about it in the Haunted House thread, and the we had own our debate thread, but it was merged into this one. Is there anywhere we can debate this? Or are "ghosts" going to be added to the list of things we can't discuss? :x

[Book]

[QUOTE=Zombie-A-GoGo




We weren't allowed to talk about it in the Haunted House thread, and the we had own our debate thread, but it was merged into this one. Is there anywhere we can debate this? Or are "ghosts" going to be added to the list of things we can't discuss? :x[/QUOTE]

Which is why I wanted us to have our own thread so we "upset" anyone on this tread. You could just not respond or ask questions of the really really serious among us. Especially if you don't like the answers.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

You could just not respond or ask questions of the really really serious among us. Especially if you don't like the answers.

I'm not sure what this means. Are you talking me specifically, or "you" in general?

[T-Boy Dallas]

One should have an open mind of all things but not so open that they become gullable. (The world Gullable isn't in the dictonary. If you don't believe me, go check!)

[Book]

I'm not sure what this means. Are you talking me specifically, or "you" in general?

Well I would consider it a "y'all" as a rule, but specifically I meant Darkness. Don't ask a question and then get pissed at the answer. The answer is "you were all hysterical".

[Book]

One should have an open mind of all things but not so open that they become gullable. (The world Gullable isn't in the dictonary. If you don't believe me, go check!)

Probably because too many people had submited photos of their friends for a definition.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

One should have an open mind of all things but not so open that they become gullable. (The world Gullable isn't in the dictonary. If you don't believe me, go check!)

You're right, "gullable" is not in the dictionary. Gullible, however, is. :)

Well I would consider it a "y'all" as a rule, but specifically I meant Darkness. Don't ask a question and then get pissed at the answer. The answer is "you were all hysterical".

That's why I thought the threads should have stayed separate. There's a difference between just discussing the topic and debating it critically, and the two, usually, don't mesh. Whatchogonnado?

[Book]

Whatchogonnado?

Call Ghostbusters? Oh wait, that is "whoyagonnacall".

Not sure if anyone has checked out Yahoo today but this is a link to an article about Ghost, Vampires, and Zombies:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0608/0608059.pdf

[Pain]

I don't know why people are getting there knickers in a twist. This thread is for Ghosts, so post what you want if if is related to ghosts.

If you have a problem with the way I moderate bring it to me in a Private message, and not moaning in the forums.

[R-Complex]

Not sure if anyone has checked out Yahoo today but this is a link to an article about Ghost, Vampires, and Zombies:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0608/0608059.pdf
Thanks so much Book-that paper is the first thing I read this morning! It's a pretty fun read. Those wacky physicists....I still remain unconvinced of the tetrodotoxin/oxygen deprivation explanation for zombieism ala The Serpent and the Rainbow (many an anthropologist has foamed at the mouth in annoyance over Davis' work), but the article kicks ass anyway.
Good for Sohang (http://www.spsnational.org/programs/2005_scholarships.htm)! And he's President of his Campus Freethought Alliance Chapter. You know what that means ZAGG- dreaded skeptical secular humanists! :evil:

[Darkness]

"Serious chat: Discussing the pro and cons of an idea."
"Debating: Calling names and saying someone is stupid for believing what they believe."

"Personal Definitions. All I'm saying is discuss it, don't sit here and argue about it. Just keep it civil. Just because a few disagree, doesn't mean we have to get mean about it. Just a caution"

"I never said it had turned into a debate yet, I'm just being careful. And I was not upset at the answers I got. I asked a curious question, and got an answer. Nothing wrong with that. Please, don't assume that I'm mad, just because we disagree on something."

[jackskellington]

Found this on Yahoo...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061026/ap_on_sc/vampire_science

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

"Serious chat: Discussing the pro and cons of an idea."
"Debating: Calling names and saying someone is stupid for believing what they believe."

"Personal Definitions. All I'm saying is discuss it, don't sit here and argue about it. Just keep it civil. Just because a few disagree, doesn't mean we have to get mean about it. Just a caution"

"I never said it had turned into a debate yet, I'm just being careful. And I was not upset at the answers I got. I asked a curious question, and got an answer. Nothing wrong with that. Please, don't assume that I'm mad, just because we disagree on something."

I don't recall anyone saying that people are stupid or for believing in ghosts. And I have to disagree with your definition of "debate."

[Darkness]

I don't recall anyone saying that people are stupid or for believing in ghosts. And I have to disagree with your definition of "debate."
"That's what I ment by 'Personal Definition'. I just don't want this to turn into a name calling session. No one has yet, but I know it can happen. Besides, I have an idea. It's a surprise, but I think it's time." ;-)

[Book]

"That's what I ment by 'Personal Definition'. I just don't want this to turn into a name calling session. No one has yet, but I know it can happen. Besides, I have an idea. It's a surprise, but I think it's time." ;-)


You mean open up a discussion thread about ghost from the point of view of skeptics and believers? Yeah tried that one. And it got merged with this thread. I don't know if that other thread will be left open or not, but no one is name calling on this one and I doubt anyone will. If the sensitivity can be kept in check I can assure you so will the misplaced blunt responses.


Know what I always wanted to do but haven't gotten around to it? I want to reread everything about The Winchester House and try to figure out what exactly was wrong with that poor woman. I mean yeah she was crazy, but did she sucumb to it from lonliness and paranoia or was it always there?

[Darkness]

Know what I always wanted to do but haven't gotten around to it? I want to reread everything about The Winchester House and try to figure out what exactly was wrong with that poor woman. I mean yeah she was crazy, but did she sucumb to it from lonliness and paranoia or was it always there?
"That's one weird house. I saw a floor plan of it on a site one time. Real hard to follow, but trippy."

[jedi1]

i just read this and woa. my baby key {my cat} just passed away 2 weeks ago. to us she was a daughter, species did not matter. i feel her rub against my leg and crawl in bed still. also different time long time ago in my current house. i was tapped on the shoulders before to turn around and find no one even in my house. also my name has been called out even in front of someone else who also heard it. ive seen a shadow of a person at the top of my steps. ive had other eerie occurrences but i was younger and lived in a house that was once a holding cell for confederate soilders in the civil war. everyone in my house saw something. my dad wont even talk about living there. he is so not a believer.im rambling anyway i know whats up and i think that my kittie visiting is a great thing. i swear its hurts to lose her more than anyone ive lost.

[Darkness]

"Welcome to our haunted, or as I like to say 'visited' realm, Jedi1!" :)

"Cool story. I have a few cats from my past that like to visit me alot. Mostly this time of the year. Not so much in the summer time. I guess they spend that time hunting 'ghost mice'." ;-) :lol:

[headshotscrazy]

theres this small wooded area about half a mile away and for some weird reason when ever i take my dog there he seems to go crazy and bark hell of alot. well im unsure if it has anything to do with ghosts but there has been a small battle there back in 16th century most of the people who fought there died.

and another thing how can i describe this.... i keep getting some feeling of something moving through the living room but when i turn round theres nothing there just furniture.

[Sambob]

I was just reading about The Winchester House and I was wondering if these were the floorplans that you looked at?

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tvprograms/houseproject/floorplans/0,16660,261878,00.html

[Darkness]

I was just reading about The Winchester House and I was wondering if these were the floorplans that you looked at?

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tvprograms/houseproject/floorplans/0,16660,261878,00.html

"Real close. But the ones I saw were in more of a blueprint style. Bigger, with more detail. What's a bummer is, I found them, accidentally, on a friends computer. And I haven't been able to find that site again since." :-(

[Divided Soul]

I have seen the plans and they are immense... I'll try an locate em 4 ya.

[Darkness]

I have seen the plans and they are immense... I'll try an locate em 4 ya.

"Way cool! Thanks DS!" :hug:

[M_Sinistrari]

This is going to probably sound like I'm flip-flopping around, but here goes with me and the Paranormal.

When I was a baby, my parents lived in an apartment complex that was next door to a large cemetary. Matter of fact, thier kitchen window overlooked the graveyard. They weren't creeped out by it but did have some funny stories about what they'd sometimes see there like the time my mom was doing the dishes and saw a woman wearing a brown bra and girdle sunning herself. She was more mortified over the colour of the underwear than the lack of clothes and a neighbor ended up calling the cops over it.

Anyhoo, the day of my christening, as the party wound down to just my parents and some close friends, they pulled out the ouija board that had been left behind by the previous tenants and mucked about with it. Whatever they were talking to identified itself as James and gave some non-commital answers as the night wore on. Not long after my parents noticed travelling cold spots that would follow whoever was holding me.

They believed that James might've been my Great-Grandpa Jim who often babysitted the kids in the family when the parents had to go to work and he was just keeping an eye on the newbie to the family.

Cold spots didn't follow when they moved out and they did leave that ouija board behind. They didn't move due to the 'event', just that the rent was going up again.

The two-flat we moved to ended up haunted by the ghost of a little girl. She was only seen at night, but during the day there'd be the occasional door or window closing on it's own along with our dog acting like someone else was in the room and expecting them to play. My parents were more curious than freaked out and going from what we'd researched nothing involving death happened either in the building or in the time when it was just an empty lot according to the neighbors who'd lived on our block the longest. Even checking the town records, nothing as far back as the records went which was the 1800s. Not helping much was the ghost would appear wearing a long white dress with her long dark hair loose so that pretty much fits time periods going back to the 1600s so we just figured she might've been someone who died sometime before what records our town had.

Over time her sightings grew fewer, though we'd still have the closing doors and windows with the occasional something gets moved. I didn't see her until we were getting ready to move and I was doing some late night boxing up. To be honest, it could've been an honest sighting or my wishful thinking concidering out of everyone who'd visted or my family who'd lived there I hadn't seen her yet.

Oddly enough, the two guys who bought the place did call us some months later freaked out wanting to know if the place was haunted since they were having dishes getting thrown and windows slamming down to where glass broke. We liked saying we hadn't a clue what they were talking about since they might've tried something with reneging on the house. They sold the place to someone else and I don't know if anything either continued or stopped after that.

Overall, the experience left me amicable to the concept of hauntings, so reading of the more violent ones ala Amityville Horror (I know that's a hoax) always threw me for a loop since we treated our ghost like just another person living there who just happened to not be so visible.

With that said, I've found anything regarding the paranormal as fascinating, though over the years I've come to the opinion that about 99% of the stories and such out there are baloney. I look at the pics of orbs and the first thing that comes to mind is floating dust.

I do believe in the concept of UFOs since there's so much out in space that it's impossible that there isn't life out there but I do believe the vast majority of the stories out there are some form of hysteria since I'd like to think that aliens capable of travelling those vast distances would be smarter than picking on Cletus and Brandine from the trailer park and leaving bits of metal in them along with the anal probes.

Cryptozoology like Bigfoot and all, very possible since we're still discovering species we didn't know existed like those gill nosed deer in China. Who knows what we'll discover as time goes on, and that brings me to my next brush with the paranormal.

It was over a year ago when I was working graveyard shift at my last tech job which funnily enough is about a few blocks from my current tech job.

I headed out for my usual smoke at lunch and sat on the curb out front since the lighting on the sides of the building was crap concidering the probable 10 pounds of dead bugs that still hadn't been cleaned out from the year before. The parking lot was well lit since it was large and did eventually share with the apartment complex across the way which made for some interesting listening when people'd argue.

Anyway, I'm sitting out there alone as usual when I see something dart out of the corner of my eye towards the one big poofy bush about 10 feet away. I'm thinking it's a bag blowing even though there was no wind since the expressway's fairly close and it's possible something's still moving from momentum that way. As I'm looking at the bush for lack of anything better to stare at as I'm taking a drag, I see this pale bipedal hunched over bald figure briskly walk towards the light pole and look at me. I don't recall much of it's face other than it had a mouth.

We probably looked at each other for a good few seconds and I calmly got up, crushed out the only four puffs taken of my Marlboro100 and walked right back into the building, not looking back. I wasn't so much scared or freaked out, but more like not wanting to risk anything. For the rest of my shift I didn't even look towards the windows since we were on the ground floor (almost all floor to ceiling windows) and I don't know what I'd've done if I saw whatever it was looking in.

Since then I've tried googling around to find out what the hell it was but haven't found a thing. It doesn't fit any of the descriptions of Chupacabra so I'm at a loss as to what it was.

And since I'm in the same state as hedshot45, I can add to his tale of skinwalkers. My boyfriend's mom is an ICU nurse over at UNM and they had someone brought in and needed to notify the family and they were out on the res with no phone. Res cops were called in and soon as they heard where the family lived, they said they'd notify them in the morning because the area was known for skinwalkers and they weren't going out there at night.

[zombiekilling101]

I have a couple experiences that happened to me and my mom.

Alittle backround though. My great grandfather and I had a very strong connection even though he lived about 10 hours away. He died when I was very young and I only remember tidbits ove himeself.

I used to get sick alot when I was a young lad and one time I had the flue real bad. My mom was watching over me and I was on the couch. She went to get something than came back and my grandpa was there and said to her "dont worry. he'll be fine".

Another time my 2 grandparents were driving me in there car and my mom dad and sis where in another car driving along side them. My mom said she looked in the car I was in and my great grand dad was sitting next to me. I

I dont remember personally seeing him but me and my mother strongly beleive that he is my guardian angel.

The dog I grew up with died 2 years ago. She meant everything to me.. died in my arms. And every now and then I'll be sitting around or walking and I'll feel her in the room and then I just feel well.. like my body and mind settles.I get depressed sometimes when I think of her so I think that thats her way of letting me know shes ok. I know that shes having a good time with my great grandpa and hope that they both teamed up on me. :)

[zombiekilling101]

Cryptozoology like Bigfoot and all, very possible since we're still discovering species we didn't know existed like those gill nosed deer in China. Who knows what we'll discover as time goes on, and that brings me to my next brush with the paranormal.



my take on that sort of stuff is either its inter-dimensional. Meaning we see those things (usually quickly) due to a short window to another place. or. There creatures that learned a long time ago that modern man was dangeous and its a safe bet to avoid them.. thus why we dont see em much. Than again its all possible that people simply just see some animals.. get spooked. than think they saw something else.

[B00Ne]

Than again its all possible that people simply just see some animals.. get spooked. than think they saw something else.

A pileated woodpecker flew over my cottage once, and I swore to god I'd seen a pteradactyl. Those buggers are HUGE:

http://www.bionmr.ualberta.ca/rbo/house/backyard-wildlife/backyard-wildlife-Images/15.jpg

[Darkness]

"It's true, animals can be mistaken for spirits in the dead of night, and some are extremely huge. But what about when those types of spirits are seen in the daylight?" ;-)

"Thanks for the great stories, M_Sinistrari and Zombiekilling101. I enjoyed them throughly." :clap:

[zombiekilling101]

A pileated woodpecker flew over my cottage once, and I swore to god I'd seen a pteradactyl. Those buggers are HUGE:

http://www.bionmr.ualberta.ca/rbo/house/backyard-wildlife/backyard-wildlife-Images/15.jpg

shit that is a big damn bird. The thunderbird would beat it up though:)

"It's true, animals can be mistaken for spirits in the dead of night, and some are extremely huge. But what about when those types of spirits are seen in the daylight?" ;-)

"."

oh I dont doubt that they exist at all. Its just people that havent seen them so they automatically think they cant exist. Some peeps think that spirits or whatever you want to call them only show themselves to people that can take it or are "worthy".

[hungryzombie]

I was never a believer in ghosts throughout my life. I would and still do consider myself a skeptic who looks for logical answers in everything I see that cannot be easily explained. I also consider myself a strong guy, mentally and physically. I normally don't get scared very easily in everyday situations. But I did experience some things over the last year and a half that I still cannot explain and cannot find any logical answers to that frightened me more than anything else has in my life. One night in August 2005 while sleeping in my bed, I awoke from my slumber and looked over towards our open bedroom door. It was dark and I don't know why I focused at this area, but as I did I saw what I believed to be a small figure standing there looking in at my wife and I in bed. It was so real that I screamed at the top of my lungs at first glimpse. Of course, once I screamed and looked back towards the figure, it was gone. That experienced passed and nothing out of the ordinary happened again after that until April 2006 when one night while sleeping in the same bed I awoke again in the middle of the night and happened to glance over to the door way. This had turned into somewhat of a habit since my experience months before (an act where I forced myself to look hoping not to see anything), and luckily I hadn't seen anything since. This time, once again, I didn't see anything. But, after looking towards the doorway, I rolled over to lie on my other side when I caught a glimpse, and then a full view of an apparition at the foot of our bed. It was either very tall or floating above the ground. It almost touched the ceiling. My first impression was that it was a female, but it had no real features that I could make out other than the shape of its body and head with what seemed to be long hair. It was slightly transparent. Once again I screamed at the top of my lungs (like a little girl) and my wife instantly woke up. And once again, the apparition was gone. This time though, as I frightfully explained what I saw to my wife, we both experienced something. It was still dark in the room and as I described to her what I had just seen, the fan (a tall oscillating type) that was at the foot of our bed, near where I saw this thing, made an odd whirring noise (that I can only describe as sounding like a power surge), it then bumped against the wall behind it (which could have only been pushed with some considerable force) and then it turned off. No lie. To say that we both weren't frightened out of our minds is an understatement. I immediately got out of bed, turned on pretty much every light in the house and looked around to try and calm myself. I went back into our bedroom, turned the fan back on and it worked fine. Nothing was found out of the ordinary throughout the house that night and no more experiences have occurred since then. But to be honest, I still peek several times every night to see if anything is there. And not that I think the house is "haunted", but recently we sold the house and are moving out in February.

[Zombie Survivor]

Damn, hungryzombie that's a very creepy experience :scare:

I'm very sad to report that there hasn't been any sign paranomal activity or entities in our house for months or so...

[hungryzombie]

Damn, hungryzombie that's a very creepy experience :scare:

I'm very sad to report that there hasn't been any sign paranomal activity or entities in our house for months or so...

Survivor, it was very creepy. So creepy in fact that I am not embarrassed to say that I have strategically placed a few night lights throughout the house as to give it a little better lighting when dark so that my eyes don't play tricks on me. I didn't believe in ghosts before these experiences, but now I'm not too sure. I try to rationalize it all in my head but yet I can't completely discount what my wife and I saw and heard. So now I just try to take it night by night and wait and see if we have anymore visitors.

When I try to rationalize the experiences I've had, I take into account all factors. One common event both encounters have is that before each of these experiences occurred I had someone close to me die. The first experience in August 2005 followed the death of an Uncle who I had not seen in a few years. The second April 2006 experience closely followed the accidental death of my younger brother (who I was very close to), the death of a friend/co-worker and the death of a fellow musician friend of mine that all occurred in March 2006. And even more specifically, it also occurred the night I came home from a short road tour with my band. It was the first night I was to sleep in my bed in over a week. Was my mind playing tricks on me in both events? Was it due to stress related anxiety following deaths in my family? Was the second experience related to exhaustion from touring, road weariness, no real sleep in days? And if so, why did my wife also experience part of the second encounter? Coincidence? Maybe I was just ultra sensitive to things around me due to the above factors. Maybe it was real and always occurs but these times my mind was so broken down that I saw things I normally wouldn't see. I do not know. I could go on and on. I'm still trying to think it all through in my head. What exactly did I see? I will never really know. Maybe I'll experience it again. I'll just have to wait and see...

[Darkness]

"Excellent stories and great feed back." :clap:

"I know how you feel, hungryzombie. It truly tests our standards of reality when we see what we can't deny or explain."

[Zombie Survivor]

Survivor, it was very creepy. So creepy in fact that I am not embarrassed to say that I have strategically placed a few night lights throughout the house as to give it a little better lighting when dark so that my eyes don't play tricks on me. I didn't believe in ghosts before these experiences, but now I'm not too sure. I try to rationalize it all in my head but yet I can't completely discount what my wife and I saw and heard. So now I just try to take it night by night and wait and see if we have anymore visitors.

When I try to rationalize the experiences I've had, I take into account all factors. One common event both encounters have is that before each of these experiences occurred I had someone close to me die. The first experience in August 2005 followed the death of an Uncle who I had not seen in a few years. The second April 2006 experience closely followed the accidental death of my younger brother (who I was very close to), the death of a friend/co-worker and the death of a fellow musician friend of mine that all occurred in March 2006. And even more specifically, it also occurred the night I came home from a short road tour with my band. It was the first night I was to sleep in my bed in over a week. Was my mind playing tricks on me in both events? Was it due to stress related anxiety following deaths in my family? Was the second experience related to exhaustion from touring, road weariness, no real sleep in days? And if so, why did my wife also experience part of the second encounter? Coincidence? Maybe I was just ultra sensitive to things around me due to the above factors. Maybe it was real and always occurs but these times my mind was so broken down that I saw things I normally wouldn't see. I do not know. I could go on and on. I'm still trying to think it all through in my head. What exactly did I see? I will never really know. Maybe I'll experience it again. I'll just have to wait and see...

I certainly don't want to be in your situation. Good luck! ;-)

[Divided Soul]

One time I was drinking in the woods with my cousin when we both at different times looked over our shoulders (without discussing what we saw) both took off for our camp... after settling down we both reported seeing a faint ghostlike sillohette, what triggered the run was the figure lifted its arms and started to walk towards us.... My Mom told us that where we were was at one time a cemetary.

[ZombieJohn]

I believe in them. I haven't really had any experiences though.

[Nemesis]

The first time I went over to my friend Ricky’s house, weird things began to happen, a picture fell off a wall, without the nail holding it up being moved. I also felt a touch on my shoulder. When I turned around, nobody was there.

[ZombieJohn]

The first time I went over to my friend Ricky’s house, weird things began to happen, a picture fell off a wall, without the nail holding it up being moved. I also felt a touch on my shoulder. When I turned around, nobody was there.

Creepy did he ever say anything?

[Nemesis]

He said he's had similar experiences in the house before. He's gotten used to it, I guess.

[ZombieJohn]

He said he's had similar experiences in the house before. He's gotten used to it, I guess.

Strange! I do remeber something now. When I went to my cousins we saw a shadowy looking man in a outfit that looked like a civil war uniform at his house. :scare: He id some weird things!:scare:

[Divided Soul]

Confusing but weird!

[zombiekilling101]

me and my gf went to this medium sized cemetary where my great grandmother is buried last night. It was pitch black and I took my camera. My GF is kinda sensitive to things. Whenever she drives by street lamps they turn off.. as well as when she walks by them.

We were rounding a corner that on the right was graves and on the left was very think 7 foot bushes and a tree. She tried to not go down there but being the manly man that I am I made her. something in the bush. tree started moving and something fell (this could have been an animal casue.. animals live in trees and bushes) and she got really scared.. as did I. so she convinced me to leave.. but not before I snapped a few pictures and this is what we saw. The first picture was taken right before the noise. the second picture as I was back peddaling/being dragged by her... the 2nd was when I said.. oh **** on what was on the screen.

lower left corner white orb.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6901/cemetary054zx7.th.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cemetary054zx7.jpg)

same tree... as we were leaving. same corner.. bright orange (pissed off) orb:)
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/388/cemetary055fq4.th.jpg (http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cemetary055fq4.jpg)



maximize the photos to see clearly.

Now I belive in ghosts but Im not concrete on orbs. Theres just too many variables to consider like dust or smudges on the screen. but we were really spooked in this section and there was no reflective material in the tree becasue I was right there.

[Darkness]

"WOW! Life in the Ghost Story Corner!" :)

"I love the story, zombiekilling101. Thanks for sharing it with us. I know what you mean about all the different 'non-paranormal' things that can cause an orb, on and off the film. It does bring up questions though. Have you been back since? In the daytime?"

[zombiekilling101]

"WOW! Life in the Ghost Story Corner!" :)

"I love the story, zombiekilling101. Thanks for sharing it with us. I know what you mean about all the different 'non-paranormal' things that can cause an orb, on and off the film. It does bring up questions though. Have you been back since? In the daytime?"



thanks for the interest darkness. this thread used to be hot but I guess not anymore:-(

no we havent been back. we are going to go to the big LA cemetary on the weekend. we want to go back to this one ASAP.

I was looking through the other hundred or so pics and theres a bunch of orbs that I cant explain due to lights.. like ones on the ground and above tombstones.

good times

We actually blew up the orange orb and theres a face in it and well.. you can blow it up for yourself and tell me what you see.. its freaky.

[nirvroxx]

We actually blew up the orange orb .

with dynamite.....or a grenade....who you gonna call! TODD!

[zombiekilling101]

with dynamite.....or a grenade....who you gonna call! TODD!


your damn right

[Darkness]

*Darkness waves to nirvroxx.* :greet:

"Welcome Aboard, Dude!" :)

thanks for the interest darkness. this thread used to be hot but I guess not anymore
"My fault, really. Been too busy with other things lately." :oops:

no we havent been back. we are going to go to the big LA cemetary on the weekend. we want to go back to this one ASAP.

I was looking through the other hundred or so pics and theres a bunch of orbs that I cant explain due to lights.. like ones on the ground and above tombstones.

good times

We actually blew up the orange orb and theres a face in it and well.. you can blow it up for yourself and tell me what you see.. its freaky.
"Although they don't really hold much credit, pictures can be fun. But once in awhile, you come across one that just screams out at you, 'Orb!', and no matter what others say, you know it's real." ;-)

[zombiekilling101]

*"Although they don't really hold much credit, pictures can be fun. But once in awhile, you come across one that just screams out at you, 'Orb!', and no matter what others say, you know it's real." ;-)


yep.. like this one. I have a bunch of orbs in shots.. but this one.. organe? come on.. angry ghost

[nirvroxx]

[B]*Darkness waves to nirvroxx.* :greet:

hello! *waves back*

[zombiekilling101]

hello! *waves back*

get back in your cage boy!

supposed to go ghost hunting at the Pomona Cemetary tonight.. will post pics if I get anything worth while.

[nirvroxx]

get back in your cage boy!

supposed to go ghost hunting at the Pomona Cemetary tonight.. will post pics if I get anything worth while.

*wild ape kills trainer* OOOOO OOOOO AAAAAAA AAAAHAHAAA!


dont crap your pants! you need those for work!

[zombiekilling101]

*wild ape kills trainer* OOOOO OOOOO AAAAAAA AAAAHAHAAA!


dont crap your pants! you need those for work!

"get away from me" *throws elbows

tell that to lindsey:lol:

[DentFoster]

me and my gf went to this medium sized cemetary where my great grandmother is buried last night. It was pitch black and I took my camera. My GF is kinda sensitive to things. Whenever she drives by street lamps they turn off.. as well as when she walks by them.

We were rounding a corner that on the right was graves and on the left was very think 7 foot bushes and a tree. She tried to not go down there but being the manly man that I am I made her. something in the bush. tree started moving and something fell (this could have been an animal casue.. animals live in trees and bushes) and she got really scared.. as did I. so she convinced me to leave.. but not before I snapped a few pictures and this is what we saw. The first picture was taken right before the noise. the second picture as I was back peddaling/being dragged by her... the 2nd was when I said.. oh **** on what was on the screen.

lower left corner white orb.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6901/cemetary054zx7.th.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cemetary054zx7.jpg)

same tree... as we were leaving. same corner.. bright orange (pissed off) orb:)
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/388/cemetary055fq4.th.jpg (http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cemetary055fq4.jpg)



maximize the photos to see clearly.

Now I belive in ghosts but Im not concrete on orbs. Theres just too many variables to consider like dust or smudges on the screen. but we were really spooked in this section and there was no reflective material in the tree becasue I was right there.
Cool pics ZK! :clap: You say you have more? You should post 'em.

[zombiekilling101]

me and the girl went back there last night at around 10-11. We brought an audio recorder and left it at the spot where we got the orange orb. I asked some questions then left for about 10 minutes then came back. Ive only been through the first 5 minues or so but there is some faint stuff.. but nothing to write home about. nothing concrete.

I did take some pics of the same spot and I got a white orb, about the same size of the orange one, on the back side of the same tree as I was walking away. I posed at the spot.. but nothing else besides that one shot.

good times.

[Darkness]

"Way cool! Are you gonna post the pics for us at some time? I'd love to see them." :)

[DentFoster]

"Way cool! Are you gonna post the pics for us at some time? I'd love to see them." :)
So would I.

[Occoris]

fwoo . . well. lets try this, then.

I was watching a Security camera the other day, at my house, just one we have set up because we don't have a peephole in our door, and there's a wire security door right outside the camera- And the way the human brain works it sort of edits out the black parts and fills in what should be there- always at a imd-day doloration and shading, as long as there's egnough light outside.

on the same subject, sometimes if people or objects are generally in one place, for a logn time, or often, and then when all of a sudden they aren't there anymore, your brain will fill in bad informaiton- when the object is normally in thr corner of your eye. (like if a cat normally jumps on a chair at a certain time, like when you're wakign out the door, and then one day it stops, your head will fill in that the cat is there) .. i think this probably has something to do with why sometimes you see things out of the corner of your eyes that shouldn't be there, and then they're gone.

So dad and i start talkign about it, because. . . that's how my family is. and he mentions how our brains fill in information like that because if we could see it properly, we'd about go mad (its his theory that that's why some of the really intelligent people are so insane- they process too much information that most people wouldn't pick up)

He connected that with the fact that cats and other animals look at things that nobody else can see- he figures those are the spirits, he says. since animals don;t have the same cognitive abilities we do, seeing thos spirits wouldnt; overload their brains cuz they wouldn't be spending a whole lot of time trying to figure it out after the fact. *shrugs* which kind of makes sense.

I personally have a bit of a problem with "ghosts" and other entities.. because my insomniactic, over-thinking, sort of logical brian says there's no way for them to exist, but aprt of my sanity rests in both their existance and the existance of a "god"- We'll say i'm torn. (i have to include a god in this simply because he fits into a definition of supernatural, in my opinion)

I think that a lot of things can be explained by the fact that humans simply forget certain things- so things turning up in any one place and us not knowing about it really shouldn;t come as a surprise- cuz if we don;t remember it it might as well haev not happened.

and perhaps the "ehavyness" can occasionally be described by part of us trying to remember somehting- my mom and myself have panic attacks (if you haven't experienced one, they tend to include hot/cold flashes, symptoms of whatever you're panicing about, if it's a disease, the need to run away or keep moving, and occasionally restrict breathing- my mom has twice thought she was havign a heart attack when one set on- we thought i would, too, or have a stroke-- or various other health problems) - often when we're remembering something out mind didn;t want us to remember because it was too horrible, or when we contemplate such terrifying things as the supernatural and allt he worlds plausibly beyond our own.

I think that.. ghosts and the supernatural in general are entirely plausible. but as of yet i can;t say i truly beleive in them. . . That'd set me off for the loony bin for sure.

(my opinions on crazy people today and alot of mental issues we have mostly blame the speed at which technology takes off, and the fact that we lock up our crazy people, crazy people souldn;t be locked up. it's jus thow i see it.)

[zombiekilling101]

I respect your opinion and agree that our minds can make us see things that are usually there. but that doesnt explain something that is right in front of your face for a while.. then isnt.

darkness and dent. i'll post the pics when I can. Thanks for the interest:)

[Godzilla_Rules]

"I actually saw three cabinet doors close loudly, and a broom fly out of the corner where I kept it, and smack this violent guy upside the head that wouldn't leave my apartment where I was living. As he left, the front door slamed shut, almost knocking him off his feet."

Sounds like the ghost likes you:)

But yes, I am a sensitive so I believe.
I have seen ghosts on occasion. I saw a full body apparition (spelling??)
about 6 times(including animals) in my entire life and I am 37. I have bizarre stuff happen around me but not so much anymore. Sometimes years will go by with nothing then all the sudden weird events start to happen. i grew up in a haunted house. That is too long of a story to type here. A few years back though I dated a man that had a ghost that haunted not only his house but the two neighboring houses. Apparently the ghost built the homes and thus 3 households of people witnessed this ghost. I never saw it but when i started dating him weird stuff began to happen to me at home. I had a ghost phone call once I am convinced it was my ex's ghost. One day I called his cell and thought I was talking to my man but the connection was weak and the call faded out. I then called repeatedly and noone answered. He later called me back wondering why his caller id showed i called over and over and i told him about the talk we had. Well apparently it was not him i talked too. He left his cell phone at home all day and no one else could have answered it for he lives alone. He told me that it was very creepy for he left the day with the phone off in the charger but came home with it moved and it was turned on. Also my ex has a very distinctive voice and it was his voice i heard. I hear ghosts can mimic people. I do not know but it was very creepy!!! Also in the same time frame i had my door fly off its hinge and fall on top of me in the middle of the night and there was a few times something held my hand as i slept but i would be alone. Real creepy! Huh?
sorry for all the typos i am typing in a hurry :) :)

[Occoris]

Hm. Well. I'm aware that there are quite a few things that are. . . oddly explained. Like face-on, full body apparitions and the broom flying across the room (actually, the whole ghost kicking the guy out of the house is awesome, really, if not a little over the top) and in truth i tend to avoid the subject that's . . here. . just because i often get panic attacks >_>
but no; yeah, i understand everything can't be explained. Just the closest things to encounters I personally have had can be- like in fourth grade (I'm still of the beleif that the house next to my elementary school is haunted) myself and multiple friends would climb up to the top of the play structure to get a good glimpse of the house next door. Saw, at one point, in a window, what looked sort of like. . . a mottled green person. thing. I remember seeing it brighter than i imagine it really would have been- more of a lime green. And THAT set me of believing in ghosts for a really long time. . . . But now i've gt the means to explain it away as a light imprint in my eye .. or something (Though i've yet to completely rule out the possibility of an actual spirit there)

The only other possible situation i am currently aware of would have to be . . One day; mom takes the smoke detector down, replaces the batteries, and puts it back up in the mount. The next day, the whole thing, mount and all, is down face-up on the washing machine. (which is right underneath where the mount normally is)
nobody could figure out why, really. and it's nto the BEST story ever, but. . . hey.

hmm. My skeptiscism comes mostly from lack of personal experience, mostly.
Though . . the stories and, especially the debate that occured in this thread i find intrigueing. . . and ZK101, I'd love to see more pictures . . this one'd be somehting to go back and look for. Perhaps the white orb was what rattled the bush? moving over to the tree. *shrugs* mostly just a thought.

[zombiekilling101]

could have been a orb moving it.. could have been an animal.. but on the other side of the fence was a load of more graves...

I'll get the picks soon.

[Darkness]

"Hey, Occoris! Welcome to the conversation!" :)

"I, too, have had quite a few bizarre experiences in my life, and I have always had the feeling spirits and ghosts did exist. But the ghost who threw the jerk out of my apartment was the one that truly made me believe."

"Yes, it did seem as if she liked me a lot. Yes, 'She'. After that night she didn't really 'hide' her existence from me any more. She would touch my dreams, play games like hide the scissors, and stuff like that. Sometimes I would wake up in the morning and the window in the bedroom would be open a touch, when it had been closed when I went to sleep."

"One night in particular, I woke up to see her standing at the foot of my bed. I was only startled for a minute, then I said 'Hello'. She looked at me, smiled, and said one thing, 'Elizabeth, then vanished. I took it to be her name."

"Later I discovered that before that building was there, before the town itself was there, it was a farm. It was owned by a man, with his wife and daughter. One heavy winter both the wife and daughter died from a fever. He buried them under a big fruit tree in the back yard. It was said that he died the following winter, some say from loneliness. Whether he was buried with his wife and daughter, was never clear. But one thing they DID know. the corner of the apartment building that my apartment was in, stood right over the spot where the old graves used to be. The bodies were 're-located', but the tree still stood tall right outside my living room window. One old man told me that the tree hadn't born fruit for as far back as he could remember, until I moved in and acknowledged her existence. I don't know how much credit I can put into that last thing, but I like to believe it was just because she finally felt like she had a home again."

"And the old dead farmer's daughter's name was 'Elizabeth'."

[mazlionheart]

I am a believer, I have been since I was about 6 years old. But its what happened to my family in January 2004 that left no room for doubt in my mind. My sister and I have lived in the same house since 1981, both of our parents died in that house. When I we first moved there I used to see 2 black figures go up and down the stairs. It used to terrify me and it was worse that my parents could never see it. Well my sister has a daughter who is almost 6 now. And in January 2004. We have never spoken to her much about her grandfather (he died nearly 10 years ago) and we were planning to tell her about him as she got older. On January 18th 2004 my niece was sitting on the floor with my sister when we had a power cut. She kept pointing at the doorway and saying "gam pa" we didn't think much of it. My mum was quite ill and had recently been discharged from hospital. When my niece went into the hallway she asked if nan was still with us. Not thinking much of it we said yes. Later that night in the exact spot in the hallwaywhere my niece asked the question, my mum had a heart attack and died. Jess was asleep during that, when she woke up she said "gam pa has taken nan" when we asked who "gam pa" was she didn't answer. A few days later we were going through photo albums looking for a picture of our mum for the wake. Jess sat with us and pointed to a picture of me and my sis as kids with our dad. Her words were "look - its gam pa". She had never been shown any pictures of him before, and even now she tells us stuff that only he would have known. She has also said she's seen 2 black figures going upstairs - something I've never mentioned as I don't believe in forcing views/fears on to children. But the fact that she's seen it makes me feel much better - as I was 6 when I first saw it and she's nearly 6. The other thing is my dad used to have a pattern of movement at night - the same thing at around 11:45pm - he'd go to the kitchen, make a cup of tea and a sandwich. We still even now 10 years on, hear those sounds at 11:45 every night. Its quite funny. I've had loads of other experiences too but the things I've mentioned stand out in my mind.

[Darkness]

"Hey there, mazlionheart! Great story, thank you for sharing it with us. And welcome to the conversation." :)

[mazlionheart]

thanks Darkness... I'm always intrigued by people's supernatural experiences...

[Jackie Coupe]

"Yes, I believe they exist. I know a lot of you might think I'm crazy, but I can feel them around me, some more than others. I have seen things move that shouldn't be moving, and I have felt a touch when no one was there. Sometimes they even find a voice and I'll hear my name called. And I know I'm not alone. How about you guys? Anyone out there have any real life ghostly experiences they would like to share? I'd love to hear about them."

I believe you. I saw my grandads spirit when I was ten years old.
I have been visited very often by a 'man' who sits at the end of my bed. He keeps the other whatever it is away that likes to bring me dreams of suffocation.
I don't know how to become more sensitive or am sure I would like to be.
I've have heard clapping in an empty house.

Totally true.

[mazlionheart]

Do any of you watch Most Haunted and if so what do you think about the programme?

[BRAAAAAAINNNNNS]

Great stories peeps. My mom, sister, and self have all believed that we have seen ghosts. I don't tell people about that instance often because i get looked at like i'm crazy...which brings up my new thread i'm going to start. WHAT MAKES ONE CRAZY?

[mazlionheart]

Great stories peeps. My mom, sister, and self have all believed that we have seen ghosts. I don't tell people about that instance often because i get looked at like i'm crazy...which brings up my new thread i'm going to start. WHAT MAKES ONE CRAZY?


I completely understand that one... I don't think there's ever been a subtle way to say you've seen a ghost though:doh:

[ERiKDude]

Quite a few weird things have happened in my house, but i think the craziest one was when i was home alone one time and i was just putting my shoes on to leave the house then a newspaper hit me in the head out of nowhere.

[DentFoster]

Quite a few weird things have happened in my house, but i think the craziest one was when i was home alone one time and i was just putting my shoes on to leave the house then a newspaper hit me in the head out of nowhere.
That's pretty strange. Was there anything significant to you in the paper you were hit with? The first thing I would have done after changing my soiled trousers, would be read that paper and look for something significant to my circumstances at that time.

(Any history of paperboys being killed on your street?) j/k :lol:

[ERiKDude]

That's pretty strange. Was there anything significant to you in the paper you were hit with? The first thing I would have done after changing my soiled trousers, would be read that paper and look for something significant to my circumstances at that time.



Checking the paper would have been the logical thing to do, but I was in a hurry and that thought never even crossed my mind...I suppose I should've been more curious as to why i got hit in the head with a newspaper, but i'm weird and don't care about what happens around me, hahaha

[retro zombie killler]

I had moments where I felt somebody watching me and no one was in the room but it felt like somebody was there. That's about it

[mazlionheart]

Has anyone ever thought about taking part in a ghost vigil before?

[Darkness]

"There is an old Mental Institution near me that I have wanted to 'investigate', if I ever can get any proper stuff to do it with."

[DentFoster]

Ooooooo, that'd be feckin' creepy....I wanna go!

Back in WV in western greenbrier co. there was an old civil war hospital out in the middle of nowhere that was supposed to be haunted. I went in it a couple of times in the middle of the night with a group of friends. Nothing ever happened to us but flashlight failure, but we were all scared shitless none the less.

[zombiekilling101]

"There is an old Mental Institution near me that I have wanted to 'investigate', if I ever can get any proper stuff to do it with."

what time and where:)

[DentFoster]

"There is an old Mental Institution near me that I have wanted to 'investigate', if I ever can get any proper stuff to do it with."
I've got a low end gaussmeter, a digital camcorder, a digital camera & a sony mini-disc recorder (I just need a decent microphone).

[zombiekilling101]

I've got a low end gaussmeter, a digital camcorder, a digital camera & a sony mini-disc recorder (I just need a decent microphone).

i have a decent voice recorder we can add to that

[DentFoster]

"There is an old Mental Institution near me that I have wanted to 'investigate', if I ever can get any proper stuff to do it with."
Darkness, can you get us permission or do we enter like the ninja?
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Photo_Ed/eng_beverly_hills_ninja.jpg

[Darkness]

"This sounds like the start of a decent investigation!" :)

"I will have to get permission first, being as there is still a functional Mental Institution on the grounds and I'd rather not be mistaken for a random, wandering, lunatic." :lol:

"There are three main buildings, if I remember correctly. The original building is now in ruins. The one they built to replace it is unused, but still mostly intact. Then there's the present Hospital, and the old annex of the second building, that is still in use."

"If that fails, there are many other 'Haunted' structures and properties, around here, that have my interest as well." :)

[DentFoster]

"This sounds like the start of a decent investigation!" :)
It sure does.
Here's a couple of pictures I found.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q191/DentFoster/western.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q191/DentFoster/western2.jpg

[zombiekilling101]

whoa those are great lookin sites

[Darkness]

"Would make a GREAT Horror Movie site too. Don't you think?" :)

[DentFoster]

"Would make a GREAT Horror Movie site too. Don't you think?" :)
Hell yeah. That place looks feckin' creepy. :scare::scare::scare:

[Jackie Coupe]

Has anyone ever thought about taking part in a ghost vigil before?


That sounds like an awesome idea - having everyone 'tune' in at the same time!

[Occoris]

Hmm . . *blinks* A vigil would be interesting. Id be frightened I'd go into panic attack mode, though >.>

[Patrick]

Well, my wife thinks our house is haunted. I know I've had a weird experience here.

When she was pregnant with Gina, she was lying on the couch one night. She asked me to go up to the bathroom and get a particular shade of nail polish. So, I'm looking through 9,000,000 bottles and hear her come up the stairs - I hear her steps, I hear the steps creak too (as they do) and she goes into our room. So I ask "is it this one, or that one?" No answer. So I call out louder. "Is it this one or that one?" Then she replies - from downstairs "Did you say something?"

I found out later, from the neighbors, two owners ago the wife died in our kitchen! Creepy!

[Zombie King]

I believe in ghosts. I've had scary experiences in my condo with ghosts. Some nights when I'm sleeping spirits pull my blanket off from on top of me and then they touch me.

[zombiekilling101]

I believe in ghosts. I've had scary experiences in my condo with ghosts. Some nights when I'm sleeping spirits pull my blanket off from on top of me and then they touch me.

its hard to read peoles tones in posts. Are you serious?

the other night my doorknob was rattling like someone was shaking it. then the door came open and nobody was there.. creepy as hell.

[Zombie King]

its hard to read peoles tones in posts. Are you serious?

the other night my doorknob was rattling like someone was shaking it. then the door came open and nobody was there.. creepy as hell.

Ummm, Well.....

[Twistedlink]

Ya this one time my parents like left and i was the only one left in my house this was like ..... 7th grade and now im in 11th so anywho i heard this noise at the door and i thought it was like my bro comin back in for somethign and i saw this imprint of the face on the window and i waved to it because the door was locked and i strted to walk over and the headlights of the car were leaving the driveway and i realized that wasnt any of my family so i got scared shitless and like was freakin out and i was playin lost key and i kept lookin around to make sure nothing was there ... leme tell u that was pretty F*@kin scary

[Zombie King]

Ya this one time my parents like left and i was the only one left in my house this was like ..... 7th grade and now im in 11th so anywho i heard this noise at the door and i thought it was like my bro comin back in for somethign and i saw this imprint of the face on the window and i waved to it because the door was locked and i strted to walk over and the headlights of the car were leaving the driveway and i realized that wasnt any of my family so i got scared shitless and like was freakin out and i was playin lost key and i kept lookin around to make sure nothing was there ... leme tell u that was pretty F*@kin scary

Yeah, this one time in band camp.....

[mazlionheart]

It sure does.
Here's a couple of pictures I found.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q191/DentFoster/western.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q191/DentFoster/western2.jpg

Am loving those sites... would love to do a vigil... I may have to look into that now... we've got so many old places and registered protected buildings in London that would be cool sites for vigils too. I'd love to go into my old secondary school and do a vigil there... Its been there since the 1800s and have had a few registered deaths - one which was treated as a murder that occured on Halloween at a party the school had in 1982 so I'd love that.

[Corpse Grinder]

Thank you, Darkness, for this thread.

I'm 42 & I've experienced a lot of scary stuff over the years, either by myself or with others. There is just too much to tell so I'll have to write a few at a time. And they are all true, so skeptics can skept all they want-I've heard it all before.

But I will say that even though I'm a believer, I make sure that whatever I've seen or heard were not my imagination, my one strand of hair that hangs in my peripheral, a radio playing faintly in the background, a reflection on plexiglass or the mirror, pets running up & down the stairs, etc. I try to debunk my experiences first, to analyze every rational explanation before I can accept anything paranormal. I even do this to my family, friends & co-workers when they say they saw something.

Now, my three best friends have three different attitudes, too. David is a firm believer, he's experienced quite a lot & I was with him for some of them (He & I used to work in a cemetery years ago, so I'll share those stories in time-though, there not that climatic). Mike has experienced a lot but he tries to dismiss everything, even though he admits that he believes but he doesn't want to. And Sean is a Jehovah & he's worried that demons live in my house & they are trying to sway me into the occult.

My earliest memories were at my parents house that my mom & sis still live in. I would always see at the corner of my eye when I'm watching tv or reading, someone peering around the corner looking at me. Of course, my reactions were always to look that way but the figure would duck back. Sometimes it's my hair flowing but sometimes it's a dark, human shape-usually the head & shoulders. This happens occaisionally at my current house, I'll see someone peer around the corner from the kitchen or from the stairs.

I was sitting on the toilet at my folks when I was still in college, it was around 3 in the afternoon & my parents were still at work & my sis was probably at school when I heard the front door open & close. I thought my sis came home. When I was done, I went to her room to chat but she wasn't there. I called her name but no answer. I walked to the front door & it was locked! I went outside to see if her car was in driveway but it wasn't. I told my sis & parents that story the same day & my parents said that they always hear the door open & close! It happens maybe once or twice a year, sometimes real late at night. They'll check to see if my sis or I are playing around or if we are coming home & either we are sleeping in our beds or we're not home; they've accepted the fact that there's a ghost in the house but they say it's not always the same one. They've never explained what they meant by that.

I've seen a reflection in the patio glass door of someone walking into the kitchen behind me early on morning, thinking it was my dad, but when I turned around, no one was there. Dad was still sleeping. Another morning I heard the rustling sounds of plastics bags in my bathroom thinking it was my dad (my bathroom connected to the utility room where the back door was located) getting the bags so he can collect aluminum cans at the park. But I didn't hear the bathroom door close so I got up to close it but it was already closed; I thought it was strange so I went to check on my dad & he was sleeping!

Well, I don't want to write a novel, so I continue with some more later. Most of the ghostly, unexplained things occurred during the mid-'80's when my sister started practicing black magic & my then girlfriend had paranormal activities in her house, culminating to my working at the cemetery. I still hear & see things but most of the scary stuff happened back then.

Thanks again for this thread & for me to get some of this off my chest.

[Darkness]

"Glad to help, Corpse Grinder, and welcome to the conversation. I look forward to hearing more about your experiences." :)

[DentFoster]

Thanks for sharing Corpse Grinder. I'm looking forward to hearing more as well.

P.S. Great screen name!

[Jackie Coupe]

Does anyone do anything special for summer solstice, anyone believe they can make contact on that magical day?

[Boomstick]

its hard to read peoles tones in posts. Are you serious?

the other night my doorknob was rattling like someone was shaking it. then the door came open and nobody was there.. creepy as hell.

Bro it's DEAD-KNIGHT here!! remeber your big bro! lol
Anywhoooo. Well my son (yes i'm a dad now) has to be sensative, i say this cause my wife and I catch him out of no where... STOP.... sits down... and stares into blank space... and begins to laugh... when we ask him what he's doing all he says is "tata" meaning Grandpa... my father has been dead since '99...suicide.

[Corpse Grinder]

Well, here's some more of my experiences, these are from around '87-'89. I got back with my girlfriend on the condition that she wanted it to be an open relationship-so I took her seriously. One girl I was dating, Beth, said her house was haunted & her uncle's house had a spirit in it-a woman. One night after visiting her uncle, she dropped me off at my house where my girlfriend was inside! Well, later that nite I was in the dining room & I saw a woman in a white or very light outfit, walking very fast into the living room. I walked over to the room to see what my girlfriend was doing but there was no one there. I went to the bedroom & she was laying in bed reading. Of course I asked if she was in the living room but she said no. The next day I related the story to Beth & she literally turned white as soon as I mentioned the white woman. She claimed that the woman/spirit at her uncle's house that we were at that nite was a white figure. She believed that the spirit followed us to my house. I don't know if her story was true but I know that I did see a female figure walking-or at least, moving-in the room. I never saw it again since & my family has never seen any white figure, either.

Couple of weeks later, my gf & I broke up & a couple of months later, Beth became my girlfriend-and that's were the fun begins.

Beth's house was haunted. The neighborhood was new, built over an old landfill. Her family were the first to live in that house, so unless someone died on that land years & years ago, I could never figure out why her house had so much activity.

No one would be home but us two, & we would be upstairs in her room & we can hear people talking downstairs. No radio or tv on, no neighbors talkin', just faint conversations. We couldn't make out the words, but it's more than one voice. We would be downstairs & we would hear footsteps going up or down the stairs or the walking sounds upstairs in one of the rooms. No one but us were home & her cat was downstairs.

Her younger sister, who was mentally slow, would have full blown conversations with herself. Beth & her parents thought that she's just playing with her dolls 'til one day I noticed she wasn't playing with anything, she was just talking to her bed. Now, after reading & seeing the Amityville Horror, stupid me said that she's speaking with ghosts! That's one way to win my girlfriend's dad's blessing! So Beth & I decided to investigate on our own without her parent's help or knowledge. Although, a year later, her mom confessed to us about her experiences with voices & glimpses in that house.

Whew! I'm not even a quarter through. I don't know if it's too much to read in a sitting (I tend to ramble in writing, same in actual talking) so I'll continue with more later (like I said, we're getting to the hardcore stuff soon). And for those that think I'm :loon: , well, I am! But these are still true.

[mrheadshot]

I've always believed in the supernatural, but I don't think ghosts are sentient beings. The human body, especially the brain, emits an electromagnetic field and at times of great stress or agony (as in death) this can become trapped, especially within the confines of a room, and loop. So really it's like a home movie that's stuck on a reel and repeats at certain intervals.

Spirits I see differently, these are manifestations outside our casual reality that appear to communicate via an instrument such as a medium or by séance. As to whether they are the 'souls' of human beings is something of conjecture. There are energies in the universe that can't be rationalized, that are numinous and chaotic and only manifest through us as 'good' or 'evil', and, much like 'spirits', may be a projection of our own desires rather than evidence of life after death.

I haven't read through this thread but I'm glad I found a forum where this can get some serious attention.
I'm not sure if anyone has elaborated on this but I think I'll give it a shot.
There are several types of haunting or "ghosts" if you like. There are:
1. residual- this is the type you discussed first, basically it's a bit of energy that somehow nature has recorded and is playing back like a broken record. It's been theorized that locations where limestone is in abundance that this can happen more easily.
2. Poltergeist- This type of "haunting" is probably not a haunting at all; it's probably more like the physical manifestation of someones feelings (anger, sadness, happiness, or even just hyperactiveness). These are sometimes violent but usually just playful or mischievous. They tend to occur more often when children are active in the environment.
and finally
3. A real haunting- Pretty much self explanatory, it's what you would call a spirit. Nobody really knows what this could be, possibly it's a glimpse into another dimension and somehow the energies from ours and the other dimension become mixed up, possibly it's just the trapped spirits of dead people. Your guess is as good as mine.

Awesome thread btw :clap:

[Corpse Grinder]

I haven't read through this thread but I'm glad I found a forum where this can get some serious attention.
I'm not sure if anyone has elaborated on this but I think I'll give it a shot.
There are several types of haunting or "ghosts" if you like. There are:
1. residual- this is the type you discussed first, basically it's a bit of energy that somehow nature has recorded and is playing back like a broken record. It's been theorized that locations where limestone is in abundance that this can happen more easily.
2. Poltergeist- This type of "haunting" is probably not a haunting at all; it's probably more like the physical manifestation of someones feelings (anger, sadness, happiness, or even just hyperactiveness). These are sometimes violent but usually just playful or mischievous. They tend to occur more often when children are active in the environment.
and finally
3. A real haunting- Pretty much self explanatory, it's what you would call a spirit. Nobody really knows what this could be, possibly it's a glimpse into another dimension and somehow the energies from ours and the other dimension become mixed up, possibly it's just the trapped spirits of dead people. Your guess is as good as mine.

Awesome thread btw :clap:

I also have three theories of my own:

1. Subconciously missing a dearly departed- I think when a loved one has died, we miss them so much or keep thinking about them that we want to see a sign that they are with us. I've experienced my dad, my girlfriend, two cousins & an aunt before; usually within weeks of their passing.

2. Dreams/Astral plane- It is possible that we could be seeing someone who is astral planing, either they are dreaming & they're projecting themselves into our awaken world; or they are purposely projecting out to experience astral planing & we just happen to to catch glimpses of their "self".

3. Dreams of the Dead- Okay, this may sound far-fetched, but my Jehovah friend says that we are only sleeping after we die. So why can't we dream if we are only sleeping? It makes sense to me, but then, that's just me.

Thank you for your patience.

[Patches]

I really don't think people give the mind enough credit, or little enough depending how you look at it.

The psyche of every man woman and child is in a constant chaos, it's an imperfect mechanism, and due to the imperfections, mainly those in the most base areas of our brain, our higher levels suffer.

Every fear stems to one single daunting question that travels back to when we could first truly fear something that was not an immediate threat. The fear of what lays outside the cave, what is just beyond our current scope, what doesn't the fire illuminate.

I fully believe that the same mind that can force its own body into paralysis is also capable of taking something that we at the time do not understand, and morph it into the "bear" outside the "cave", because it's easier to cope with the fear of a known bear, than another unknown beast (the devil i know is better than the one i don't). The idea of the paranormal did stem originally from fear, and later turned to the genuine interest we have come to Know (for all of you who will say "but i don't FEAR it, i'm intrigued").

Hell, im more inclined to believe in Morphogeneticism than my Uncle Herm coming through from the otherside. And as for a physical manifestation of emotion, that's an incredibley base assumption. Even if i were to give ground to "emotional energy", the idea that something as complex as human emotion could be interpreted by the environment is almost inconceivable (how do you know what you consider love and hate, isn't interpreted entirely opposite in my mind, or entirely so in every humans), and then, you have one very small problem, how does thought turn to energy especially when we are talking kinetic energy (the firing of neurons that equate "I hate david", does not equal 12 newtons or 3 joules or whatever you want of force). We all had some form of study or another regarding physics, energy may not be created nor destroyed. Then we must always remember Entropy, how does a thought turn to an apparition or a physical interaction. It would be much more likely that even if thoughts could cause some form of physical change, it would be much more likely that everything in the room vibrated at an almost infinitesimally small amount higher than it would typically for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second...not a plate flying across the room.



...

but that's just my opinion on things, i could very well be, and often am, wrong

[Horror of Party Beach]

This is one of my favorite subjects, right here. In a nutshell, I can say, like you, I've felt them, heard them, been scared by them, been NOT scared by their presence, (been REALLY scared by a CAT ghost once...that was freaky. At Lizzie Borden's house, which is now a bed and breakfast...) been horrified by one (I call it the Bathroom Experience, long story)...... enjoyed many orbs and strange things going on around me AND felt and smelled my Dad (may he RIP) and had his hand on my shoulder from the back seat of my car. That's really in a nutshell. I'm not scared of them like I am with zombies, I don't live in fear, but there are times when I'm afraid, sure. You?

[Corpse Grinder]

Well, I'm back with more from my '88-'89 experiences.
My sister dropped her Baptist upbringing & started doing white witchcraft with her best friend Judy, it eventually steered them into the black arts. My girlfriend, Beth, dabbled in the occult with her girlfriends. I, of course, joined in.

One night, Beth & I were sitting downstairs in her living room doing a two-person seance where she claimed she can "feel" the spirits in her house. She said that a man was in the stairway watching us, but I didn't believe her (this was still early in our dating before I started to hear the voices in her house) & was just playing along when there was a loud BANG on her dining room window that was facing us. This made her scream & we both shot up. It sounded like someone hit the window after she asked the "man" a question. I knew that no person in her back yard could have hit that window with their hand because she lived in a tri-level house and her dining room window was at least 10 feet from the ground. Either someone threw something at the window or a bird flew into it. We went out to investigate and we didn't see any bird or any objects lying around that would have been thrown. It could have been a coincidence, & I still try to this day to be skeptical, but I actually believe that something hit that window on purpose to stop us from our seance. And it worked for that night, because we didn't do another one in her house for at least a month or two.

We did another seance with my sis, Judy, Beth & her friend in Beth's bedroom at night (is there any other time to do one?). We were just asking for anyone that might be in the house to answer us when, after awhile, we started to hear what sounded like foot steps on the roof. Something was walking from the center of the roof towards our end! Someone said it was probably a cat, but it sounded too heavy for a cat; and, the way the house was built-being a two-story house with a reach from the side yard fence to the roof was at least 15 feet. And the neighbors' houses on both sides were at least 20-25 feet away, I doubt a cat from either house with the same fence clearance can get on any roof and then attempt to jump from house to house.

Anyways, hearing that the sounds were now walking around above us & that my disproving the cat theory sounded, well, sound, we immediately broke the circle and the walking stopped. Again, I being a skeptic and trying to find ways to debunk what we heard that night & how it stopped when we stopped was more than a coincidence; I've heard naturally creaking houses all my life, & to this day I've never heard a house that would creak from one end of a roof to another-even in a wind storm! And it was a calm night that night.

Those are the only two seances that had any paranormal occurences that were frightening or worth mentioning, the others we had done were usually Judy faking her claims (she admitted it to my sister a few years later). The irony in Judy & the seances were that the very last one she did with us and the last time she did anything with us was in mid-'89 when we were in our circle and she tried to conjure up someone, she started choking and falling back until she broke the circle. She was crying & claimed that she could feel two hands choking her from behind and was pulling her backwards. I don't know if she was telling the truth or was using that as an excuse to not to hang out with us ever again. But she stopped doing witchcraft and any other occult related activities. She eventually stopped hanging out with my sister & she lost touch with her.

I still don't know if Judy was shittin' us that night, but of all of the hoaxes she pulled with us with the seances and ouija boards and crystal balls that she admitted to my sis, that was the only one she claimed was true.

That's it for tonight, I'm getting goosebumps just remembering some of this & it's getting late for me. I'll write more later. Bye...

[zombiekilling101]

damn corpse your hardcore:)

ive been meaning to go back to the cemetary for some more pics and audio recordings.. but havent had anyone to go with. drove by a cem i havent been to the other night and stared like there was a naked chick walkign bye:)

[Darkness]

"I'd go to a cemetary with you, if I lived close enough. I know how hard it is to find someone to go with you, who takes it as seriously as you do atleast."

[Corpse Grinder]

damn corpse your hardcore:)

ive been meaning to go back to the cemetary for some more pics and audio recordings.. but havent had anyone to go with. drove by a cem i havent been to the other night and stared like there was a naked chick walkign bye:)

Well, depends where in so. cal. you live in, I'd be willing to go. I know where alot of cemeteries are. Ever heard of a defunct cemetery called Spadra right next to the 57 freeway?

[zombiekilling101]

"I'd go to a cemetary with you, if I lived close enough. I know how hard it is to find someone to go with you, who takes it as seriously as you do atleast."

would be fun!

Well, depends where in so. cal. you live in, I'd be willing to go. I know where alot of cemeteries are. Ever heard of a defunct cemetery called Spadra right next to the 57 freeway?

57 is close. im down in chino. where you at?

[Corpse Grinder]

57 is close. im down in chino. where you at?

Monterey Park, near Rose Hills. I used to live in Covina where my mom still lives. I used to work at Oakdale Cem. in Glendora and at the La Verne Cem. in La Verne. I've been to many cemeteries in the area and took alot of pics, but nothing ever showed up in them. I want to try the digital voice recordings, but I have to get one first. If ya ever wanna go, just pm me.

The only eerie happenings at the two cems I worked at were just hearing voices, or hearing my name being called and once in La Verne while weed whackin' around a child's headstone, I heard a baby cried. When I stopped the weed whacker the crying stopped. La Verne is a very small cemetery surrounded by houses on two sides, a garden nursery on another and more houses across the street. The baby crying could've came from one of the houses so I have to remain skeptic. Oakdale is surrounded by busy streets on three sides and a trailor park in the back, so any voices could've from any of those directions.

The only creepy thing that has happened several times and two other workers said it happened to them often is: I'd be buzzing a headstone and at the corner of my eye I would sometimes see either someone running towards me or a truck driving towards me. I would always jump back with my heart pounding, especially with the truck, but there would be nothing there. I would move my head around to see if it was a shadow or reflection from my safety glasses but I could never duplicate it's effect. After I mentioned this about the second time, two other guys said they experience those same visions. We just figured someone or something didn't like the noise or the way we trimmed the headstones.

[zombiekilling101]

Monterey Park, near Rose Hills. I used to live in Covina where my mom still lives. I used to work at Oakdale Cem. in Glendora and at the La Verne Cem. in La Verne. I've been to many cemeteries in the area and took alot of pics, but nothing ever showed up in them. I want to try the digital voice recordings, but I have to get one first. If ya ever wanna go, just pm me.

.

cool man thats pretty close. we'll set it up on a weekend or something. i have a digital recorder so we're set with that.

[Darkness]

"I just wanted to say that it's great to see this thread wake up like this, and I am enjoying reading all of your posts. They are extremely interesting. Thanks guys!" :clap:


The only eerie happenings at the two cems I worked at were just hearing voices, or hearing my name being called and once in La Verne while weed whackin' around a child's headstone, I heard a baby cried. When I stopped the weed whacker the crying stopped. La Verne is a very small cemetery surrounded by houses on two sides, a garden nursery on another and more houses across the street. The baby crying could've came from one of the houses so I have to remain skeptic. Oakdale is surrounded by busy streets on three sides and a trailor park in the back, so any voices could've from any of those directions.

"I have to add to your skepticism, by mentioning that the 'crying' could have also been a acoustical illusion, created by the drone of the weed whacker, reverberating between the machine, the headstone and the ground."

"The rest of your story sounds like fun. Wish I could have experienced it as well." :)

[Corpse Grinder]

I've always try to remain skeptical whenever I experience anything of the supernatural (or when I go on dates!) because I don't want to end up as the boy who cried wolf.

I watch these shows on tv about ghost hunting and stuff and most of them are just fooling themselves when they think they've seen shadows or orbs. I don't really believe in orbs, most are dust or light reflections. In photograghy class waaaay back in high school I learned how to make special effects with different light sources with high speed film.

I'm not familiar with digital voice recorders so I don't know if they will pick up radio or c.b. signals.

I've also experimented with various cameras, different kinds of films from black & white to color with different speeds to infrared film and shot at lots of cemeteries, old abandoned houses & buildings and just in various, general places. I've never gotten a shot of some vague, shadowy figure or half a person floating. I've gotten alot of light reflections of various shapes but I've never believed that they are anything but flaws in the film, reflections or just dust. But I keep trying, it's like playing the lottery, maybe I'll get lucky but then I have to try and debunk it before I can shout "Eureka!"

I've debunked many a things and what I can't explain, I'll just present them in this thread and let you fair people judge them for yourselves. So far, I've been getting positive feedbacks but I'll also take any criticism anyone has to offer. I just think that most people want to believe but some are hindered on either science or religion or being made fun of.

[zombiekilling101]

dont know if Ive mentioned this one...

I was in my room and my Gf at the time (dumbass:)) and I were sleeping. I woke up cause the doorknob was shaking back and forth then just opened. the GF thought it was me and I thought it was my dog who often walks up to the door and head butts it...

could have been the dog, wasnt mom and dad casue they dont play tricks like that... but if it was the dog how would it shake back and forth like someone was handling it then swing open? scary.

I recently stayed 2 nights and 3 days at the Queen Mary with my present GF (amazing girl :)) and I was all psyched to see some ghosts (she wasnt.. not to into it and gets scared.. but she came around). We went on the paranormal ship walk which was horrible. they added a bunch of stupid FX and bad actors which just dumbed it down and seemed disrespectful. They even have the floor with the haunted pool closed down, so we got through some locked doors at like 1 am and I got into the pool area.. wehre they were having a physic reading and we were chased out.. so that was ruined.. was very freaky by yourself though.

only "paranormal" thing I had was. We were sleeping in the bed, Someone whispered in my ear "someones in the room" so I jumped out of bed (naked) and checked the room. she said it wasnt her but she could have been sleep talking..

goign back in 2 weeks though!

edit.

we're goign back there this wednesday to friday afternoon.. gona be fun again.

[Darkness]

"Well, guys, I just moved to a new house and property, I'll let you know if I find any spirits." :)

[zombiekilling101]

anything darkness?


You guys know about the old hag and her story?

[Leeboy]

"Well, guys, I just moved to a new house and property, I'll let you know if I find any spirits." :)

Meh, I've been in my new house for months. I've gotten some creepy vibes from the closet, but that's about it.

[Lazerbeak]

I believe it was Einstein who said that nothing is every destroyed..... only changed from matter to energy and back again. That would allow for spirits.... though I tend to think of them as energy manifestations as well as many of you.

My mind is very rational and until I witness a ghostly event I have to remain sceptical. I did however once see two UFO's and if they can exist then why not ghosts?

[zombiekilling101]

I believe it was Einstein who said that nothing is every destroyed..... only changed from matter to energy and back again. That would allow for spirits.... though I tend to think of them as energy manifestations as well as many of you.

My mind is very rational and until I witness a ghostly event I have to remain sceptical. I did however once see two UFO's and if they can exist then why not ghosts?

explain your ufo sightings.

[Lazerbeak]

It wasn't anything mind-blowing but here it is....

I grew up on a farm out in the middle on nowhere and one night I was walking down a canal bank.

I saw a light drop out of the sky and then race across the horizon. It was totally silent. No plane I know of can drop straight down and then resume speed without missing a beat and no helicopter I know of can do that at the speed it was moving and while being silent.

Another light moved across the horizon and the two balls of light met over a ranch and hung there in the sky, perfectly still.

While they hovered there the field began to glow green, kind of like a big spotlight was on it. The field was roughly half a mile away. With that in mind I was able to make a guess that the balls of light were maaaaaaaaaybe schoolbus sized.

I watched that for a while (while hiding behind an old tree) and finally they left; straight up into the sky. I thought they were gone so I started walking home.

That's when one of them came back down. It was getting closer to me. I could tell because the ball seemed to be getting bigger (though a friend pointed out to me later that it might have just been becoming more brilliant and not moving at all... giving the illusion that it was coming closer). It still made no sound.

I ran like hell, got home, jumped into bed and pulled the covers up over my head until I fell asleep.

So I guess it's a classic Unidentified Flying Object.... not a plane nor a helicopter. It could move very fast, make right angle turns, there were two of them, they had some kind of business going on over a field in the middle of nowhere.

I always wanted to go to the owners of the field and ask them if they ever saw weird things. I got as far as the guys front door. The son of the rancher was in my grade at school and didn't want to be labled a kook.

[Zombreach]

I have always been a "show me" kind of person. I have to see it to believe it...rarely taking anything based on faith alone as fact. I consider myself opened-minded, and I will not say these things don't exist. I think there is a good chance that ghosts, aliens, UFO's, etc. may actually exist, but I will have to experience them for myself to truly believe. I find it hard to accept that we are the only intelligent life-form in the universe.

So far, I have never seen or heard anything supernatural in my lifetime. Although I do love to listen to people talk about them or watch movies about it. I also have never had a "feeling" about something that was about to occur, but I have met people who seem to be more "sensitive" to things around them. Just not me! :cry:

[Commander Ambrose]

:-(:-(

I've had a lot (I think ghosts are stalking me)but i'll sum it up into three types.

Once when i sick(When i was 10, 8 years ago), i looked at the TV and it turned old and had some creature on it with a long but thin head and same with the neck.

The day after, i was walking in the same room when in the bathroom i heard something say my name and when i looked a figure (that looked like it had bad camo from Halo 3) disapeared.

One week later my friends and I were playing during recess when all of a sudden the upstairs door on an abondoned house opened and shut loudly. Plus the wind wasn't even going when it happened. Then the door continued it until i left school 7 years ago. Wierd thing was that only i and my friend heard it and not the teachers. We formed the watch squad and when we left we passed it to my best friend and his group. That was my last encounter of the unkown kind.

I R SCAR3D CAUS3 OF GHOSTS!!

MAIFO

:-(:-(

[garthaman]

you'll get a kick out of this one

My dad, about 20 years ago, bought our old house. The day he moved in, he took some boxes up to the attic. As he was setting one box down, he noticed that there was a circular plate propped up against the wall. He picked it up, and instantly reconized it as a civil war grave marker (might have helped that it said civil war on it). He thought he had just missed it when he was inspecting the house, and decided to call the people who owned the house previously. When he called them, they said they didn't know what he was talking about, so he decided to keep it.

That night, he put the grave marker in a glass-front cabinet in an office room just below the attic. He then fell asleep in the couch in that room, since he hadn't brought up his bed yet. In the middle of the night, he was slowly woken up by a chill on his hand, which was let out over the side of the couch. He opened his eyes to see what it was, and saw that there was a very short gray-blackish figure (which was not transparent) standing over him. My dad's hand was in its stomach. My dad, to stunned to move, watched the figure carefully. After about 5 minutes of them just looking at each other, the figure raised its hand and pointed to the grave marker. The ghost then faded away. The next morning, my father took the grave marker and left it at a local cemintary.

He thought it was over. Then, about 1 year later, when we were packing up to move, my father went up to the attic and found the grave marker, in the exact same spot. We lugged around the grave marker for a few months. I don't know where it is now.





Also, when I was very young, about 5 years old, we went out to this island called oakercoke. Its an old, this will sound cheesy, but its an old "pirate" island, famed for being directly related to Black Beard.

We were staying at a hotel on the island. The first night at the hotel, my mother and I were laying in bed watching TV. Again, this is about to get REALLY unbelievable, but just trust me with this. We were watching some show on TV that my mother liked, when the TV suddenly fuzzed out, and switched to a educational program talking about black-holes, featuring homer from the simpsons!

We tried to change the channel, but we couldn't. My father then walked out to get some drinks from a soda machine. About 1 minute after he left, the tv flipped off, and a purple/black hole with swiling white lines appeared on the wall next to me, not more than 1 foot away. I wanted to reach out and touch it, but I was frozen solid to the bed. After about 30 seconds of looking into it, my father walked in, saw it, and then it dissapeared. Needless to say, we left that hotel right then and found a new one, very far away.

[Darkness]

"Being the season it is, anyone have any Haunted Christmas Stories they would like to share?" :)

[Dave Of The Dead]

SUPER BUMP!

I'll share all my experiences with spirits, ghosts, and the weird I've experienced from my first to latest.

When I was a little kid, about 7 or 8, I slept with my door open. A staircase is right outside my door. I woke up in the middle of the night and saw a figure standing at the top of the stairway. It wasn't completely transparent, but enough to see the handrail behind it. It watched me for about five minutes until I said "mom?" At that point, it looked down and made the motion as if to touch their knee. Then it disappeared and I fell back asleep. This being my first experience, I remember it very well.

I didn't have any other experiences until just recently. Two weeks ago, I was washing dishes about an hour before close at the Subway where I work. The building is about a hundred years old, by the way. The water was running in all three sinks, so I couldn't hear anything. Then I hear a woman's voice say "Hey David" very casually coming from the area near the cooler about ten feet to my left. It wasn't so weird because people come in all the time to check the work schedule. I almost said hey back, but I looked up and nobody was there. ****ed up, huh?

Tonight, what provoked Darkness to tell me about this thread, I was driving home from dropping off a friend after a concert. My usual rout home wasn't an option because of road construction, so I had to take the highway past the hospital. Highway 24. Well, all the way to the hospital, I followed a car toward a stop light. Before the stop light was a hill where the car drove over and I lost sight of it for only a second. As I drove over the hill, I saw the car disappear. Even the illuminating tail lights just faded into nothing.

And supposedly I'm a medium...

[Nameless1]

I usually think of ghost mainly as a kind of recording or imprint on a place. My experience was when I was working at a museum. I was doing the last round of the night, checking all the departments for people staying late. When I was in one department which had something of a history of weirdness. I stepped on this loose piece of metal and looked down, when I looked up I saw this guy walking toward the exit of the department. I went after him but couldn't find him. In fact the exit that he would have taken lead to concrete stairs that makes noise when you walk down them and I didn't hear nor see anyone on them. I also didn't hear the door open or close.

I searched the whole department and couldn't find anyone. When I told my supervisor about it he said he didn't see anyone exit either. The thing that makes me think he was a ghost was the fact that he was dressed like he was still in the seventies bell-bottoms, plaid shirt, handlebar mustache. He also didn't have any eyes just shadows where they should have been.