Nothing but head shots

[straightjacket]

I was wanting to test my skills and see if I would be ready to lead people in the days of the zombie apocalypse. So i set out and found some targets that were made for just that, and as you all can see I did just fine. Well enough that I can safely say that I could lead a squad of men down ally ways in the middle of the night and only loss one or two.

[Screwballgunnut]

I hate to be the one to bust your balls over this, but its better that it happens now, instead of you getting yourself (or worse, someone else) killed by you being overly (read stupidly) confident in your own skills. There is a lot more to leadership than being able to shoot paper on a gun range. The scenario you said you're competent to lead people through is nothing like where you were shooting, as I'm willing to bet you were shooting in broad daylight, and at known distances. Also, its hard to get a good adrenaline rush while shooting menacing paper, which makes shooting a little bit more of a challenge. So before you volunteer yourself to be the savior of the modern world, may I humbly suggest you put a little more thought into your plans.

You want a better picture of your shooting skills on Z day, go do a couple of 40 yard dashes in the woods, around 11pm during a new moon (or a really cloudy night) without the aid of a flashlight, and then pop off some rounds at that same target.

[mattifikation]

Yeah, do what he said. Except do it while dozens of people are trying to eat you.

[bandits1]

...yeah, what they said.

Plus, I don't think it's a prerequisite for a leader to be a great shot. He just has to be a great leader.

[Tripoli]

I was wanting to test my skills and see if I would be ready to lead people in the days of the zombie apocalypse. So i set out and found some targets that were made for just that, and as you all can see I did just fine. Well enough that I can safely say that I could lead a squad of men down ally ways in the middle of the night and only loss one or two.

Just because you can shoot, that does NOT mean you can lead. This is the reason I would not follow you.... You should know that without me telling you. Sorry I can shoot better.

[john154]

Here are a set of "zombie drills" i've practiced before at the range. This is an unoffical range exercise and I kind of dread how long its gonna take to copy onto here but its a gooder and i'd like to share it with anyone here who can appreciate it. Keep in mind this was with a bunch of fully competant troops, a very openminded RSO and all drills were practiced dry in advance. As usual proper safety procedures are paramount.

Conducted 2-4 lanes at a time with 1xARSO for each shooter.
Loadout: Rifle: 3x20 rd mags. Pistol: 1x12 rd & 2x6 rd mags(ARSO holds 3rd mag...you'll see why later)
Targets: 4 foot screen with 2xfig.11 & 2x handheld fig.11

200m 4 foot screen with two fig.11(man size targets). Rifle and 1st mag lay at firing point side by side. Load 12 rd pistol mag but don't ready. Holster.

Ser.1: Do 50 squats & 25 pushups. Move up to rifle. Adopt prone pos. Load and ready 1st mag. 4 left & 4 right. Adopt kneeling pos.

Ser.2: From the kneeling pos. 3 left & 3 right. Adopt Standing Pos.

Ser.3: From standing pos. 3 left & 3 right. Reload, ready and prepare to move.

Rifles at the alert pos. When targets come up ARSOs control a run up to the 100m point.

100m 4 foot screen with two fig.11(man size targets).

Ser.4: Immediatly adopting the prone pos. 3 left & 3right. Adopt kneeling pos.

Ser.5: From the kneeling pos. 3 left & 3 right. Adopt Standing Pos.

Ser.6: From standing pos. 4 left & 4 right. Reload, ready and prepare to move.

Advance in the alert position to 50m.

50m 4 foot screen with two fig.11(man size targets).

Walking from 50m to 25m conduct RSO controlled serials of 2 left & 2 right.

Ser.7 At the walk. On the order "UP." 2 left & 2 right.

Ser.8 At the walk. On the order "UP." 2 left & 2 right.

Ser.9 At the walk. On the order "UP." 2 left & 2 right.

25m 4 foot screen with two fig.11(man size targets).

Ser.10 Standing alert pos. On the order "UP." Short burst Left & Right.

Advance at the alert pos to 15m.

15m 4 foot screen with two fig.11(man size targets).

Ser.11 Standing Alert Pos. On the order "UP." Short bursts Left & Right. Mag runs dry. Conduct Immediate Action and transition to pistol. Ready pistol. Scan for targets. No targets.

15m 2x handheld fig.11(man size targets).

Ser.12 Standing Alert Pos. On the order "UP." Doubletap left.

Ser.13 Standing Alert Pos. On the order "UP." Doubletap left.

Ser.14 Standing Alert Pos. On the order "UP." 4 left.

Advance at the Standing Alert Pos to 10m.

10m 2x handheld fig.11(man size targets).

Ser.15 Standing Alert Pos. On the order "UP." 4 left. Pistol runs dry. Conduct Immediate Action, reload(6 rd mag) & ready. Scan. No target.

Mozambique Drill: Doubletap to the body & 1 aimed shot to the head.

Ser.16 Standing Alert Pos. On the order "UP." Mozambique Right.

Ser.17 Standing Alert Pos. On the order "UP." Mozambique Right. Mag runs dry. Conduct Immediate Action. No more mags. ARSO tosses the last 6 rd mag in front of your feet. Adopt Kneeling Pos and reload. Scan. No target.

Ser.18 Kneeling Alert Pos. On the order "UP." Mozambique Right.

Ser.19 Kneeling Alert Pos. On the order "UP." Mozambique Right. Mag runs dry. Conduct Immediate Action. ARSOs clear shooters.

And thats the show. Shit that took way to long to copy out of my range book:(

[Hitman]

John , that sounds like a good drill. I need to become an RSO at the range I go to mostly to do stuff like this on days the range is closed.

to the Op , this is the most dangerious thing I've shot at . it still doesn't come close to shooting at zombies trying to eat you.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/bobsboobs/200hog.jpg

headshot BTW .

better pic.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/bobsboobs/DSC00399.jpg

[straightjacket]

I never said that I could lead man kind, nor be it's savior. All I said was lead a squad. Maybe that means I am in charge, BUT it could also mean I'm at the front of the line. You know "leading", maybe I trust my skills enuff put myself in harm way first. So there is no reason to go ripping my head off. Let me guess your also the type of man that takes the Bible literally I bet you think there was a boat with two of every animal on it.

[Dave Of The Dead]

I'm an atheist and even I found your first post to be naive. A lot of people can shoot guns and just because you can hit a piece of paper in the same spot a few times doesn't mean that people will look up to you and trust you enough to lead them through zombie infested territory. Leadership is based on good decision making and the thought of leading a group through zombie infested territory in the first place and only losing 1-2 members would get you out of the leadership position rather quickly.

[mattifikation]

First off, let me say that I think you should take your religious attacks elsewhere. I'd like to ask other posters to simply not answer your question. It has nothing to do with zombie survival and really just came out of thin stupid air.

Second, it's clear to everyone that you were saying you could be the leader of a group. You didn't say "go in first," you said "lead." It was your own choice of words, so don't whine when people can't read your mind - or should I say, back peddle when people refute what you said?

Third, if you lost one or two men just going down one dark alley, then you'd have made a huge screw up anyways. I'd be following the guy who didn't lose anybody, thank you.

[Behemoth]

Well i have to agree with what's already been said, losing group member by walking down an alleyway, please! Dude, that is bad leadership in any ones game. As for your shooting ability, well that's good for you, but if you're leading ( in the lead, taking the lead ) who's covering your rear?

[Screwballgunnut]

I don't go ripping people's heads off when they don't deserve it, and I haven't yet, but yet is coming.

To post a picture of a shotup paper target, and then proclaim that you're "ready to lead people in the days of the zombie apocalypse," is at best extremely naive, but probably much closer to full blown moronic. For your sake, I hope you're 18, fresh out of high school, and young enough that your bad judgment can be chocked up to immaturity. To then come back and post up some backpedaling drivel about "Oh, well I meant to take the point position" means you either think I'm dumb enough to buy that tripe, or that you are a spineless weakling that can't take constructive criticism. Yes, I do consider my first post (and most of the other posts in the this thread) constructive criticism. How? Simple, I verbally slapped you upside your head, to get your attention, and then proceeded to explain the error of your ways in small, simple terms, and then offer a solution, as did several others. You responded with that spineless, back pedaling drivel and a pointless attack. Frankly, from what I've seen so far, I wouldn't let you lead a pack of horny college freshmen to a whore house in Mexico.

[mattifikation]

Maybe he could lead the zombies instead? Nobody would complain if one or two of them got killed in every alley he took them down. :lol:

[Dave Of The Dead]

Maybe he could lead the zombies instead? Nobody would complain if one or two of them got killed in every alley he took them down. :lol:

except maybe the ones in back... the zombies who only got left an eyeball, a pinkie, and a clavicle with hardly any meat. :drool:

[Dave Of The Dead]

I have heard a lot about the .22 and how it is probably an able to penetrate the forehead because the skull is too thick. Now, we're talking about zombies here, correct? Zombies are motorized instinct. There are certain parts of the brain that controls certain parts of you. People have been impaled through the skull and survived with the only result being dementia. So aiming for the head, though key, will not always do the job. Behind the forehead are parts of the brain that control the conscious and mental activities. If you damage these (with a zed), you probably won't kill it. Now you can do all the research in the world and disagree with me here, but I would think that the best place to aim for would be the cerebellum & brain stem. These control balance, movement, and instinctual activities. If you shoot the zombie in the face (The eyes, nose, and that general area) where the skill is not as thick and for the eyes and nose not even there, you have a better chance at striking these parts of the brain. You could even do that with a .22!

[secretcog]

Mr. Dave, you've just entered into my cool book.

My fiancée and I have been discussing zombie brain death at great length recently.

I have much to share on this subject, and as soon as we have time, we will. There are also other posts covering this topic.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/Thomascharming/Blinkingbackground-1.gif

[bandits1]

I have heard a lot about the .22 and how it is probably an able to penetrate the forehead because the skull is too thick. Now, we're talking about zombies here, correct? Zombies are motorized instinct. There are certain parts of the brain that controls certain parts of you. People have been impaled through the skull and survived with the only result being dementia. So aiming for the head, though key, will not always do the job. Behind the forehead are parts of the brain that control the conscious and mental activities. If you damage these (with a zed), you probably won't kill it. Now you can do all the research in the world and disagree with me here, but I would think that the best place to aim for would be the cerebellum & brain stem. These control balance, movement, and instinctual activities. If you shoot the zombie in the face (The eyes, nose, and that general area) where the skill is not as thick and for the eyes and nose not even there, you have a better chance at striking these parts of the brain. You could even do that with a .22!
Points taken, but I'll stick to a 9mm or larger just in case I don't have the time or patience to aim for the eye or nose when being attacked by 1230238430534858 zombies whose only goal in life is to eat my face. I'd feel safer with a round that can reliably smash through any part of the skull I happen to hit.

[mattifikation]

One quadrillion two hundred thirty trillion two hundred thirty-eight billion four hundred thirty million five hundred thirty-four thousand eight hundred fifty-eight zombies.

That's a lot of zombies.

[Iron Knuckles]

One quadrillion two hundred thirty trillion two hundred thirty-eight billion four hundred thirty million five hundred thirty-four thousand eight hundred fifty-eight zombies.

That's a lot of zombies.

With that many after me I'd probably go with the oldest and noblest of pirate traditions and run.

[Bob]

The sinus cavity for sure.
That is the only semi-reliable place to hit with a 25.

[Jimmy]

One quadrillion two hundred thirty trillion two hundred thirty-eight billion four hundred thirty million five hundred thirty-four thousand eight hundred fifty-eight zombies.

That's a lot of zombies.

Hecks yeh. O_O

[Lian]

Penetration is fairly reliable with a .22 against any part of the skull for somewhere up to around 30-40 yards. That's initial penetration mind you, after that it pretty much losses most of it's velocity and often is unable to leave the skull again causing it to bounce around and liquefy the brain. 30-40 yards isn't a lot in the grand scope of things I suppose, but if your sitting on top of the house surrounded it'd be a better option to burn through a few thousand rounds of the less useful .22 ammo before wasting you 9mm or bigger.

On that note I think you should still aim for the nose area, it's a central target so no matter how far off you may end up your odds are better that you even make contact at all, unlike aiming for the forehead where if your a half inch too high you miss altogether. And in my experience most people tend to shoot too high because they pull their triggers instead of squeeze them.

As for the actual odds of a head shot not actually killing a zombie I don't know. I think if the round penetrates the skull at all that you'll be doing OK, impact trauma might do sufficient damage to the brain and kill it anyway even if the vital parts near the back aren't directly hit. The brain is a squishy thing. Though nothing is 100% so even if they happen to survive the first round... Just cap em again?

[mattifikation]

If I were left with nothing but a .22 and the zombie hordes were closing in on me, I'd aim directly for my temple.

Wait... no... I wouldn't do that. I know of a guy that tried that with a .22. It didn't work. Neither did his second attempt. Third time around he used a shot gun. If only he'd remained true to the .22, he might still be alive today...

Anyways, I'm with the guy who said aim for the nose. It's right in the middle.

[Lian]

If I were left with nothing but a .22 and the zombie hordes were closing in on me, I'd aim directly for my temple.

Wait... no... I wouldn't do that. I know of a guy that tried that with a .22. It didn't work. Neither did his second attempt. Third time around he used a shot gun. If only he'd remained true to the .22, he might still be alive today...

Anyways, I'm with the guy who said aim for the nose. It's right in the middle.

Must not have been trying too hard. Glancing blows galore. :drool:

[BioWeapon]

Taking point is not the same as being the leader of a group.

But, sure, I'd let you take point.

[Dave Of The Dead]

My thread moved here has absolutely nothing to do with a kid who thinks he's a hot shot because he can get head shots at a shooting range. My thread is about the structure of a human brain and how to kill a zombie with that knowledge. Don't be deterred because of the original thread and lets get on with the one moved here.

[stark55]

Points taken, but I'll stick to a 9mm or larger just in case I don't have the time or patience to aim for the eye or nose when being attacked by 1230238430534858 zombies whose only goal in life is to eat my face. I'd feel safer with a round that can reliably smash through any part of the skull I happen to hit.

give me those odds any day and i will die happy.

[mattifikation]

The mods did that to a thread of mine. Didn't have the slightest drop of spit to do with the thread it got moved to. Even the subject lines didn't match up. I asked twice for an explanation and didn't get an answer, so I'm pretty sure the mods don't read shit. They just do whatever.

It's all good though, the site's free and the less they read, the more we can get away with. :rock:

[beyerwrestler]

Im a good shot on my own but I know I wouldnt be leading. I could focus on shooting zeds and shooting alone to help the group. Even though Id always be carrying a 9mm or my .357 ruger which I for one would think would deal enough damage/trauma to the brain, so it wouldnt matter where I shot in the head. My friend youd be in the same boat as me. Keep practicing but dont make ignorant assumptions of yourself being cocky wont get you out alive.

[Bob]

A forty yard head shot on a stumbling zed?
That would be a tough shot.
I actually shoot NRA rim fire silhouette so I have a tad of experience shooting a 22 pistol out to 100 yards.
For most people a head shot at 40 yards would be a tough to impossible shot at that range.

Any pistol would be best for close range.
For most people anything further than ten yards would be a total crap shoot.
Considering the ability of the average guy at the range where I shoot they would be much more likely to miss than hit.

Head shots are like shooting silhouette it's a binary condition. You either hit or miss there is no 9 ring.

A brain stem shot would leave you with a paralyzed zed that could still bit even though he could not move.
My personal opinion is there has to be enough trauma to reduce the brain to goo.

[Lian]

Waaaiiit...are we talking .22 pistols here? I was thinking about my .22 rifle. I frequently go plunking with those at 50 yards out by my uncles. 30-40 yards with a .22 handgun though, maybe? I don't think my hands would be steady enough though at that range for me to confidently shoot though without a lot more practice. Damn Americans and their love of handguns, the wild, wild west is dead kids.

[Bob]

The wild west dead?
The faces have changed but there are still roving bands of outlaws called gangs. They just aren't called by the name of the leader anymore. They go by names like MS13 or Bloods etc.

Somehow I thought we were talking about handguns.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Even though I mentioned the .22 in the post, this thread was not meant specifically for that caliber gun. I'm sure you could shoot a zed in the forehead and probably see him still walking toward you afterward. The point of the post was to show that only the lower brain and stem would have the capacity to control a zed. The Brain's hemispheres have absolutely nothing to do with anything besides higher thought. So don't aim there!

[Bob]

I'm not sure I agree about the stem.
I'm no neurosurgeon but I think it's more about blasting enough matter rather than a precise hit with Zombies.
I do agree many of the areas would / should have no real effect.
One thing to remember a severed Zombie head will still bite.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/521/brainpickz1.jpg

[Lian]

The wild west dead?
The faces have changed but there are still roving bands of outlaws called gangs. They just aren't called by the name of the leader anymore. They go by names like MS13 or Bloods etc.

Somehow I thought we were talking about handguns.

Gangs? There were gangs in London before the wild west was even born. Hell there were gangs in Rome, Jerusalem, Mesopotamia. If anything the wild west copied them. When I said the wild west was dead though I meant the era where a handgun and a man to man showdown at the OK corral is dead. Fastest hand in the west won't save you when an M4 can drop 13 rounds a second in a burst pattern.

Nowadays your gangs hide in the shadows with their full auto rifles and litter a street with bullets and run away. If they only use a handgun it's either A to attack an unaware, unarmed person, self defense when they find themselves on the other end of the Assault Rifle, they think it makes them look cool, or they are just plain dumb.

The military's current view on a handgun is that is should only be used so you can fight back to your rifle that you shouldn't have dropped to begin with like a dumbass.

But this is getting outside the scope of the thread so I'll shut up now. :lol:

[Gummerfan]

...I can safely say that I could lead a squad of men down ally ways in the middle of the night and only loss one or two.

If I'm going to follow someone, it's going to be someone who's smart enough NOT to go down a zombie filled alleyway in the middle of the night. :)

[Bob]

Lian

I don't think it ever was like that.
The OK corral type thing was not the norm.
There are many misconceptions of what the old west was like.
However many of us carry handguns every day of our lives.
You are not from the US are you?

[JakAttak]

the high noon showdown happened once that we can tell.

[Lian]

Lian

I don't think it ever was like that.
The OK corral type thing was not the norm.
There are many misconceptions of what the old west was like.
However many of us carry handguns every day of our lives.
You are not from the US are you?

Maybe not, but I'll stand by my assessment that a handgun is only really for when something goes oops. Till then I'll take a good rifle.Though admittedly I do know a couple people that have handgun's in like glove boxes of cars and such. And I do have my own handguns, the fact of the matter is that a handgun should not ever be considered a primary weapon in any kind of long term survival scenario. At best it's to help you out in a pinch so you can get home to your real guns.


And I do Live in the US, technically I'm a US citizen even. But I'd never really say that I'm American. And at least where I'm at, handguns aren't very common place, and Colorado has some of the loosest gun control laws in the country, aside from two or three states in the deep south.

And this whole conversation has turned outside of the scope of the thread here which was placement of shots in general and has digressed into yet another this gun is better than that gun cause I say so thread.

[Bob]

I didn't intend to insult you.
I resemble that remark about Southern States I suppose.
Handguns are very common where I live.
Many of us carry them on a daily basis.

I partially agree with you.
A handgun will let you fight your way to a rifle.

The primary problem is I can't fit a CAR-15 or a M1A in my side pocket.
Nor can I carry one on my belt under a untucked shirt.


Why so set on keeping threads on topic?
Threads should be organic, let them grow and evolve.

[DarthJoe8]

Why so set on keeping threads on topic?
Threads should be organic, let them grow and evolve.

Agreed to a point! But that's why we have thread titles. If you opened up this thread on head shots and it "evolved" into a discussion about money shots....well then, besides being funny it would have devolved into nothing that the OP had wanted to discuss. :think:

Soooo.... If you'd like to talk about money shots(not saying you do) then start another thread. :lol: This one is about head shots!! :)

:drinking:Besides head shots i like money shots!!:drinking:

[Darkness]

Why so set on keeping threads on topic?
Threads should be organic, let them grow and evolve.

"So we don't have a thousand threads talking about the same thing. Now stay on topic, or I'm gonna get out the tranquillizer gun and put you all out of my misery." :evil:

[Bob]

Grumble Grumble dang gum topic Nazi's.:evil:
I am going to say one more off topic thing then I will make up for it with on topic.
The moderators here do a good job of keeping things under control.
Anyone who recognizes my nick will understand.

Nothing hand held is going to beat a rifle or a shotgun with large shot or a slug for a head shot. Handguns are in my not so humble opinion are superior in a close encoutner like hallways and smallish indoor areas. They are much more compact and can be held much closer so there is less for a zed to grab. If it does get grabbed there won't be much leverage to use against you.

Head shots with a pistol should not be attempted beyond about ten yards unless you are a really good shot. I would expect a zeds head to move about unpredictably as they stagger along.

[Lian]

"So we don't have a thousand threads talking about the same thing. Now stay on topic, or I'm gonna get out the tranquillizer gun and put you all out of my misery." :evil:

I'll go first but only if you promise to rape me in my sleep. :drinking:


I'm still of the opinion that 90% of the time it won't matter where the shot hits the head as long as you get initial penetration. The brain itself is squishy so any serious blow to it will cause enough damage that the zombie should in fact go down. Weather it's from actual impact with the vital part of the brain matters little as long as the end result is the same right?

It's the same concept of a bullet proof vest, the kevlar may be tough and can stop the bullet but without the strike plates in it to help stop and spread out the impact from the bullet you'll turn the same vest into swiss cheese. Once you get a round to actually penetrate the skull there is no strike plate, in this example the strike plate is the skull itself. So with the bullet already well mushroomed and presumably still spinning it's gonna have a similar effect to dropping...oh...scrambled eggs into a blender. :zom2:

[Bob]

Cranial penetration is what it's all about...

[Trumble0]

I've seen a 600 pound pig take 3 .45 hydrashok hollowpoints almost point blank to the head and stay standing, and that same pig took a .17 FMJ from 10 yards afterwards and fell over immediately dead. Im not saying Killing Zombies would be like butchering a pig, but I thought for sure that those .45's would take it down quick, the pig before that went down in 1 shot with the .45 so I think shot placement does have a little effect but I agree, the skull is like a pressurized container (This is why someone's head will sometimes go towards where they were shot... I think I've heard it called 'Jet Effect'?) once you crack it, pretty much anywhere your follow up shots are are going to leave the zed in a world of :poo:

[Dave Of The Dead]

In my high school psychology book, I remember seeing a quick article about a miner who was pushing dynamite into a hole with a steel rod. The explosive went off sending the rod through his head and out the other end. The only thing he suffered from was mood swings for the rest of his life. So, I really do think that placement of the round is a lot more important than plain old penetration.

[Darkness]

In my high school psychology book, I remember seeing a quick article about a miner who was pushing dynamite into a hole with a steel rod. The explosive went off sending the rod through his head and out the other end. The only thing he suffered from was mood swings for the rest of his life. So, I really do think that placement of the round is a lot more important than plain old penetration.

"Watching shows such as Ripley's Believe it or Not, Discovery Channel, and the like, I have seen clips of stuff like that, and yes, I agree. It's not just important to penetrate the skull bone, but one needs to make sure the shot does enough damage in the right place to drop a Zombie."

[Lian]

Still you hear about these stories that thus and such person survived and what not but honestly. Has anyone really met someone that has suffered a major cranial injury like getting shot in the head and surviving? We had the example with the pig, but I don't really think that surviving like that is a common occurrence. :2cents:

[DarthJoe8]

Still you hear about these stories that thus and such person survived and what not but honestly. Has anyone really met someone that has suffered a major cranial injury like getting shot in the head and surviving? We had the example with the pig, but I don't really think that surviving like that is a common occurrence. :2cents:

I'm picking up what your laying down. :)

What are the odds of your shot being the one that misses the sweet spot anyway? :think:

:scare: I've seen lots of films with real gun shots to the head and none of them survived.

:drinking:

[Darkness]

Still you hear about these stories that thus and such person survived and what not but honestly. Has anyone really met someone that has suffered a major cranial injury like getting shot in the head and surviving? We had the example with the pig, but I don't really think that surviving like that is a common occurrence. :2cents:

"Does surviving a head on colision, with a semi-truck, on a motorcycle, count? I know its not guns and all, and I'm only bringing it up as a 'OMFG YOU SURVIVED WHAT?' type of story."

"And I have met people with what looks like bullet wounds in the head, vets who survived wars, and the likes. And althought I wasn't around at the time they got shot, I do tend to believe their tales. Some have coherent thoughts, but many are lucky to remember such simple things as their names."

[DevilsRain]

"Does surviving a head on colision, with a semi-truck, on a motorcycle, count? I know its not guns and all, and I'm only bringing it up as a 'OMFG YOU SURVIVED WHAT?' type of story."

"And I have met people with what looks like bullet wounds in the head, vets who survived wars, and the likes. And althought I wasn't around at the time they got shot, I do tend to believe their tales. Some have coherent thoughts, but many are lucky to remember such simple things as their names."

http://www.nbc10.com/health/4563166/detail.html

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/205285/amazing_kid_with_only_half_a_brain/

I think you should look at these! and thank you!

[Darkness]

http://www.nbc10.com/health/4563166/detail.html

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/205285/amazing_kid_with_only_half_a_brain/

I think you should look at these! and thank you!

"You're very welcome. Thanks for the links." :)

[peacemaker1330]

I have seen an individual who was shot in the head with a .22 handgun, and he was up and talking to me about who shot him. He was shot just above the left ear, towards the back of the head and his skull was penetrated. Actual penetration of the skull doesn't always mean certain death.

[bandits1]

Still you hear about these stories that thus and such person survived and what not but honestly. Has anyone really met someone that has suffered a major cranial injury like getting shot in the head and surviving? We had the example with the pig, but I don't really think that surviving like that is a common occurrence. :2cents:
The chances of meeting an actual living, breathing, walking, talking human being who has survived a single gunshot wound to the head?

I'm guessing very low. In fact, I don't think I know anybody who's actually ever been shot anywhere on their body. I know guys who've been shot at, but no one who's actually been shot.

The chances of seeing a zombie survive a single gunshot wound to the head while he and a few hundred of his buddies attack a group of armed civilians?

I'd say the chances are pretty damned high. If you're expecting every single zombie you shoot in the head to go down after one(sometimes hastily fired) bullet, I think you're in for a big surprise.

...and you're probably going to need a lot more bullets than expected.

[Gummerfan]

The chances of seeing a zombie survive a single gunshot wound to the head while he and a few hundred of his buddies attack a group of armed civilians?

I'd say the chances are pretty damned high. If you're expecting every single zombie you shoot in the head to go down after one(sometimes hastily fired) bullet, I think you're in for a big surprise.

...and you're probably going to need a lot more bullets than expected.
If I were to find myself greatly outnumbered, I'd shoot for the hip. It's a much easier target to hit. A major caliber should break the pelvis, especially with ball or fmj. No, it won't stop 'em, but it would at least slow them down and make them easier to "deal with".

[VideoJunkie]

I find this thread disturbing. Damn it, a shot to the head kills zack. That's the rule. This talk of why that might not be true is just to upsetting. Ok, maybe once in a rare while the bullet will manage to miss doing enough damage to drop a zack. Maybe. On second thought, forget that! I've gotta believe that head shot = dead zombie...well, you know what I mean...re-dead or whatever. Damn it if a head shot's not gonna do it then we're just screwed!

[Bob]

I agree, head shots hitting the brain are hard enough.
Kronlein shots are more rare than might be expected.
Anyone who thinks head shots are easy needs to go to the range with me.
The thing most people forget is when Zombies walk they stagger.
The head is not going to be nice and still waiting on you to poke a hole in it.
Even with 9mm and up there is going to be a chance you will miss the brain. The bullet could impact to low and just take off a piece of face or neck.
However the movies tell us it does not take an enormous amount of damage to do the job as evidenced by the screwdriver in the ear in Dawn of the Dead.
I am taking this to mean any disruption of the brain itself is enough to accomplish the task. Perhaps all that is needed is release the cerebrospinal fluid surrounding the brain.

[killnburn]

well, i prefer to go with the modo: if its not dead after the first shot......just shoot again

i mean, the chances of surviving a headshot are slim, surviving two headshot?? close to impossible, if it still dosen't work after 2.... well just shoot a third one! if after 3 he still dosen't go down i swear the 4th one is gonna be for me.....

that might be where the shotgun can come in handy, 00 buckshot to the head region, you are almost sure to hit the brain

[Dave Of The Dead]

Shooting the brain isn't the issue here. Shooting the useless parts of the brain is. Alive humans only use 10% of their brain, and that includes reasoning, hunger, anger, blah blah blah. So this means a zombie will use less of their brain and narrows brain activity down to a few select areas. I'm not saying that headshots will be completely useless, but I am saying that maybe aiming for the spinal cord to paralyze a zombie is a bit easier than aiming for the base of the brain which is the most likely spot for a zombie's "mental processes" to be occurring.

[mattifikation]

Alive humans only use 10% of their brain

Wrong.

Humans use all of their brains. Urban legends are not medical journals.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Wrong.

Humans use all of their brains. Urban legends are not medical journals.

It wasn't meant to be serious. It was only something to compare both the human and zombie, as if saying that humans use this this and this part of their brain, then zombies would only use this part.

[Gummerfan]

However the movies tell us it does not take an enormous amount of damage to do the job as evidenced by the screwdriver in the ear in Dawn of the Dead.
I am taking this to mean any disruption of the brain itself is enough to accomplish the task. Perhaps all that is needed is release the cerebrospinal fluid surrounding the brain.
A guy who used to post on another board had an interesting theory. He theorized that since the zombie virus is anaerobic (doesn't require oxygen to live, zombies don't breathe) that oxygen may in fact be toxic to it. If you can introduce oxygen into the brain, say by poking or blasting a hole in it, the virus dies and the zed goes down.

[Bob]

That works except for the rapidity the Zed died from the screwdriver.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Well say the zombie is missing an eye, why wouldn't it die then?

[Gummerfan]

Because the O2 has to get deeper inside?
I'm not saying the theory is correct, or that it's absolute truth, but I do find it interesting.
And we'll never know 'til we can get a real "live" zombie to test it. :)

[Bob]

Perhaps since the fluid is not being replaced any loss in pressure causes an immediate shutdown.

[Dave Of The Dead]

This might work on the same concept, but maybe the cells are swelling and the hole from a gunshot squeezes the brain out like toothpaste... thats a far fetch.

[Bob]

Killing Zombies is a binary thing, you either hit the brain or you don't.

60 shots 30 feet rapid fire.

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8729/102808targs001crophb4.jpg

[homelitexl]

m y theory is its like aids it spreads thorough mucus ducts and when the right chemical comes a long bam your a zed:loon:

[Trebek]

I concur with the idea of needing to hit parts of the brain related to motor function. This would lead to a recommendation of ammunition designed to expand such as hollow point or soft point rounds.


Also am I the only one who noticed that the OP was talking about how great he was when of the 19 rounds I counted, 4 were completely off, one only hit hair, and the other got the Jaw and wouldn't have hit brain?

[Bob]

Also am I the only one who noticed that the OP was talking about how great he was when of the 19 rounds I counted, 4 were completely off, one only hit hair, and the other got the Jaw and wouldn't have hit brain?

Did I miss something?

[Trebek]

I think they merged two threads.

[Bob]

Ok, but I still feel like I missed something.

[Darkness]

Also am I the only one who noticed that the OP was talking about how great he was when of the 19 rounds I counted, 4 were completely off, one only hit hair, and the other got the Jaw and wouldn't have hit brain?

"There are only two Ops here. Which one are you refering to?"

[Trebek]

First post, first page. It has an attached photo of a target which the poster was quite proud of. I was simply joking about the fact that he was saying that he was "ready to lead a squad" when he's scoring less than 70% hits.

[Darkness]

"Ok, well he isn't a Moderator of this forum, and you mentioned something about an OP's statement."



"Ok, back to the topic."

[VideoJunkie]

People here seem to have the idea that movement is controlled by the lower or rear areas of the brain. According to my exhaustive research (2 minutes on GOOGLE) that's not the case. The Frontal Lobe controls thinking and planning, but it ALSO controls motor function. That means without it zack don't move. So, it seems that the old theory of "just shoot 'em in the face!!!" is still the way to go with zombies. Personally, I find that quite comforting.

Here's some of the info I dug up.

http://www.umich.edu/~cogneuro/jpg/Brod_hemi2.gif




Frontal Lobe
thinking, planning, & central executive functions; motor execution

Motor
primary 4
secondary 6
eye mov't 8
speech 44

Motor, tertiary 9, 10, 11, 45, 46, 47

[Bob]

Trebek

Thanks I was confused.
I wonder what distance that target was shot at?

[detpat]

Something to keep in mind is that, in affect, the brain isn't strictly the only effective target for a zed stop. a frontal shot to the skull may also inflict a through and through spinal shot. LEO Sharpshooters are taught to shoot at the triangle made by the ocular orbits and the sinus, or even so low as the mouth. these thin areas of the skull allow access to the spinal column, as would a base of the skull shot from the rear.

[Trebek]

Very true detpat. A shot to the spinal cord while it would not necessarily destroy a classic zombie, it would likely render it immobile so that it could be approached from a safe angle, or so that you could get away.

[Dave Of The Dead]

On behalf of VideoJunkie, Motor skills includes dexterous movement of the fingers, toes and all those useless things a zombie wouldn't do... like draw a pretty picture. Yeah those parts of the brain control movement, but my idea is that zombies shamble, stumble, and crawl around very ungracefully. So if that part of the brain were damaged, maybe the zombie would continue to shamble, stumble and crawl around just as ungracefully. I'm not a neurologist or anything, but a few years of Bio and Psychology classes is what give me these conclusions.

[detpat]

a health brain is a delicate organ, a partially rotted brain, already impaired by decomp is, IMHO going to even more easily damaged by temporary wound channel and hydrostatic shock than a live one.

[Necrowerx]

"Ok, well he isn't a Moderator of this forum, and you mentioned something about an OP's statement."

"Ok, back to the topic."

OP being "Original Poster", I think - not "Operator".
If that's what you meant? ;)

[Necrowerx]

In any case, I agree, you gotta take out the brainstem area, which is comprised of the pons, the medulla, and the cerebellum (not to be confused with the cerebrum). This is the "reptile" brain you hear about. In evolutionary terms, all brains are extensions of the spinal cord.
The more highly evolved cortex/cerebrum area of zombies is not crucial to their existence - I think that part remains dead.

[mattifikation]

Shoot both parts, just in case.

[detpat]

i was wondering why you were getting worked up over this "OP" business and what it had to do with moderators.

[Darkness]

OP being "Original Poster", I think - not "Operator".
If that's what you meant? ;)

"Thank you for clearing that up." :hug:

[Bob]

For my part I thought OP meant "operator", now I know.
Not knowing about the picture on the first post and having just posted a picture in the thread I was thinking huh? What am I missing, there must be another picture somewhere perhaps that has been removed. There is no way he counted 19 hits in my picture, there are a few that missed the brain pan but for the most part there is a big ragged hole in the gray matter.


Now as to the parts of the brain.
I might agree on parts if the skull is penetrated by a knife / screwdriver / icepick etc. But when you blast through it with a high velocity projectile, well have you shot a milk jug full of water? I think the key word here is going to be SPLAT!

Besides the Historian George Romero has shown us that all it takes it penetration by any object or a severe concussive impact to take out a Zombie.

[Darkness]

Now as to the parts of the brain.
I might agree on parts if the skull is penetrated by a knife / screwdriver / icepick etc. But when you blast through it with a high velocity projectile, well have you shot a milk jug full of water? I think the key word here is going to be SPLAT!

"I have. And yes, it splatters quite well." :)

[KrimsonKing]

Here is a good way to test your head shot skills.

Get a buddy to drive around a RC car that has several helium filled balloons tied to it then try to shoot the balloons whilst walking your self.
You may find that shooting a moving head is harder than you thought.

[Bob]

Just don't shoot the car :evil:

Not a bad idea one of the inexpensive ones would probably run at about the right speed for a shambler.

[Lurker13]

Here is a good way to test your head shot skills.

Get a buddy to drive around a RC car that has several helium filled balloons tied to it then try to shoot the balloons whilst walking your self.
You may find that shooting a moving head is harder than you thought.

Okay, ill try it, but if people on my street get mad about stray bullets you explain it to them. (its funnier if you know how close the other houses are)

[manaketes]

ive seen alot of threads about guns and bullets and how much they spread and how much they destroy the head, but i was wondering. there seems to be a lot of contradicting opinions about this. my question is, how much of the brain needs to be destroyed before the zed drops for good? ive seen people saying it only takes a little bit, while in the same thread somebody says "completely destroyed, turned to mush" :lol: so if i could get some insight that would really help.

also, i didnt know if this belonged here or in the zombie talk thread so i picked here, as this seemed like the right place for it. if it has to be moved, sorry for the inconvenience in advance :)

[RzXzB]

Good question It would be hard to answer because most of the brain doesn't work if it did they would be able to do things like speech,thinking,and other things so there must be a part of the brain that keeps them moving and the rest of the brain must be dead.So in order to kill the zombie they must destroy at least that part of the brain I have no clue about the rest of the brain.But if you go back to the land of the dead the zombies begin to think and speak just like day of the dead so this is going to be to hard to answer.So my best answer is blow the zombie head apart just to be safe.

[Chaos Nightbringer]

I wouldn't imagine it taking all that much. A large hammer to the brains will cause enough damage to a human to put them down, so I imagine it's about the same for zombies, possibly less, considering the decay to the skull. So any hit to the brain that kills a human will logically kill a zombie too.

[mattifikation]

I'm no doctor, but according to most people who reference medical fact (if you CAN reference medical fact in a discussion about zombies) say that the brain stem is the part that needs to be destroyed.

It's my personal belief that there are varying degrees of "destroyed" that a zombie can be. A severed head leaves a completely de-animated corpse body, but a head that can still try to bite you. A brain stem that's 50% destroyed results in a 50% deterioration in the zombie's function. Considering that the zombie is impaired to begin with, that would leave it with little more than the ability to squirm and crawl after you on the ground.

This is only a guess, but I figure 75% destruction of the brain stem would leave a zombie immobilized for all practical intents and purposes, although it might still be able to twitch and bite at things that get near its mouth.

But to completely disable the zombie, I think the brain stem needs to be completely destroyed.

[Birdman44]

I think the shock of a bullet going through the brain stem will completely destroy the zombies function, or any function it has left, unless its a .22lr or something.

[JimiVengeance]

i know some form of leadership is necessary but it would also be bad. with leadership comes big egos (most of the time) and i wouldnt want someone who thinks theyre bad ass and try to be bossy and controlling...teamwork is required and leaders think they are the team...:drinking:

[Darkness]

i know some form of leadership is necessary but it would also be bad. with leadership comes big egos (most of the time) and i wouldnt want someone who thinks theyre bad ass and try to be bossy and controlling...teamwork is required and leaders think they are the team...:drinking:

"Excuse me, but what does this have to do with a discussion about Headshots and Zombies?" :roll:

[Dave Of The Dead]

"Excuse me, but what does this have to do with a discussion about Headshots and Zombies?" :roll:

Probably from the very first post, but its a stretch. Still, being a marksman is not exactly a huge qualification for being a leader.