Taking out a zed

[Dave Of The Dead]

Lets just say that you are just finishing a raid on a super market. You sling your pack over your shoulder and holster you gun. As you walk out and turn a zombie stumbled toward you, mouth open and moaning. You draw your pistol and click click click!You're out of ammo! You have just enough time to draw your trusty melee weapon, whatever it may be! How do you kill this zombie?

ex: decapitation, penetration of the skull, bashing in the skull, ect.

[ghdeh1]

I pull out a stick and poke him away and walk away:) oh oops ummm... machette

[Dave Of The Dead]

The question is "How you would you take out the zombie?"

note the ex: decapitation, penetration of the skull, bashing in the skull, ect.

[Faran Brigo]

Depends on the melee weapon:

Blunt force, short: Solid whack to the temples is my best bet I think.

Blunt force, long: Step back/sidestep, knock him down (aim at the knees) then try to drive it through an eyesocket.

Edged, short: Penetration of the skull

Edged, long: Decapitation


Thankfully due to horrible coordination, no reflexes and minimal speed slow zombies are notoriously bad melee fighters. Ben took on a whole mob of them in NOTLD and he was no Stallone.

[Running From Zombies]

Assuming a fast zombie, I'm trying to think of the best way to hold it off while you use your knife to get at the base of the skull. How well would holding the neck work? Would it be difficult to get your hand there under the gnashing teeth and the chin shielding it?

[Screwballgunnut]

Assuming a fast zombie, I'm trying to think of the best way to hold it off while you use your knife to get at the base of the skull. How well would holding the neck work? Would it be difficult to get your hand there under the gnashing teeth and the chin shielding it?

Turn off the movie screen, folks. Stop and think about all the times you've bonked your head on the underside of the car, fallen off a horse & landed head first, flipped a 4 wheeler and landed on your head, etc. Now consider how many times you've had skull fractures. We've all heard stories of .22's & .25's deflecting off of someone's skull. I've seen people in 2 vehicle car crashes (each vehicle at 70ish mph) get bounced around between the rear seats of a van, their skull got cracked, but no "splattering" of gray matter inside the van. In fact, in all the fatals I've worked, I've never seen a split open skull. Speaking of skulls, how often do you hear of skulls lasting several hundred years after someone's death? Quite regularly. Point being: The human skull is VERY stout. Driving a knife through someone's skull is not going to be one light shove like you see in the movies with a pocket knife. Its going to take some serious force, a direct blow to one or two relatively small, specific spots, and a VERY stout fixed blade.

Decapitation is not much of an option, as even back when it was a preferred method of execution and the executioners had big heavy axes, it was still messy & required repeated blows to severe the head from the body. The one chop lop off is not a reasonable expectation. I liked the LotD scene where the zed with the partially decapitated head used a shoulder lunge to fling his head forward and bite the prissy bullfighter guy, as that would probably be the common occurrence when you try to decapitate a zed.

The skull crunch after one blow with a baseball bat, tire iron, pry bar or ball peen hammer just isn't a reasonable expectation, either, unless of course you're up against the army of frail, osteoporosis riddled grandmother zeds. Blows to the body, while ineffective for killing a zed, would stand a much higher likelihood of landing a blow that will disable & slow the zed to a point where you can escape.

To the OP: I pull my pistol, it goes click, I check the safety, and then go through a reloading/clearance drill, and resume firing, while backpedaling to put distance between me and said zed. In the event of a weapon malfunction, I toss that gun aside and go to one of my spares. The day that I run out of ammo is a good day to die :doh:

[Lian]

For one my gun wouldn't click empty unless there is a few of them cause I would take the time to reload, and count my shots as a fire. If I'm out of ammo that would have been the first thing on my to raid list.

So caught in the situation that I have no ammo and I'm in close quarters. I bust my knife out hamstring the bastard, shove him away and put leather to pavement. Or back pedal till a better option shows itself.

[Running From Zombies]

Turn off the movie screen, folks. Stop and think about all the times you've bonked your head on the underside of the car, fallen off a horse & landed head first, flipped a 4 wheeler and landed on your head, etc. Now consider how many times you've had skull fractures. We've all heard stories of .22's & .25's deflecting off of someone's skull. I've seen people in 2 vehicle car crashes (each vehicle at 70ish mph) get bounced around between the rear seats of a van, their skull got cracked, but no "splattering" of gray matter inside the van. In fact, in all the fatals I've worked, I've never seen a split open skull. Speaking of skulls, how often do you hear of skulls lasting several hundred years after someone's death? Quite regularly. Point being: The human skull is VERY stout. Driving a knife through someone's skull is not going to be one light shove like you see in the movies with a pocket knife. Its going to take some serious force, a direct blow to one or two relatively small, specific spots, and a VERY stout fixed blade.

Since you quoted me I'm going to assume this was in part directed at me. You do realize there's a hole in the skull where the spine connects, yes?

[Screwballgunnut]

Since you quoted me I'm going to assume this was in part directed at me. You do realize there's a hole in the skull where the spine connects, yes?

First, yes, it was partly directed at you. It was also directed at the others who believe one whack with a baseball bat will crush a human skull. It just ain't so.

Second, yes, I do realize there is a hole in the skull. Its called the foramen magnum and is one of many holes (also known as foremen) in the base of the occipital bone. It is called the foramen magnum because it is the largest of the foramen and is on average 30-35mm in diameter, or 1.18-1.379 inches. If you feel like you can reliably stab a knife through that opening on a writhing, biting zed (or a living person), go right ahead. Also, let me remind you that the foramen magnum is partially shielded by the vertebrae of the spine, muscles and cartilage, making that 1.18-1.379 inch hole even smaller.

The fact that we're discussing killing zeds doesn't mean that the rules of anatomy or physics suddenly go out the window. I have done a significant amount of reading on human anatomy, and a fair amount of reading on historical accounts of executions, and I'm not just randomly making comments to piss you off.

[Faran Brigo]

When I said edged weapons, I thought about axes. I think those could break a skull.

Edit: Yeah blunt weapons probably won't do much. Still, if it's all you have, you might as well go down fighting.

Edit to the edit: Wouldn't bone necrosis significantly weaken the skull of a zombie?

[Dave Of The Dead]

Okay, hold the phone. I'm talking about the zombie is right in your face. The only thing you have time for is to grab whatever your melee weapon is. If you want to reload your gun with a zombie in your face, about to gnaw off your arm, go ahead and put the barrel right under your chin while you're at it.

You people don't seem to get the idea here. I hear tell of everyone with their blunt objects, their ninja swords, their crowbars, or whatever. But I never hear anyone tell me how they intend to use them in a close combat situation.

You know why it took repeated blows when executioners tried to decapitate with an axe? There are a few reasons actually. The executioner's ax is VERY unbalanced. As they would start chopping, the blade would turn slightly, and botch the attempt. Others wouldn't sharpen their blades before hand.
HOWEVER!

We are not talking about executing a sitting duck. We are talking about fending off a zombie that is no more than 4 ft. from you. So grab your god damn base ball bat, machete, hatchet, or whatever you plan on carrying with you and tell me how you plan to dispatch this zed! I don't want any spare pistol tucked in your shoe bullsh*t either. Now, go!

[bandits1]

In light of how difficult and time-consuming it seems to be getting access to the brain of a zombie with any melee weapon short of a +5 Dwarven Battle Axe, the best bet looks like it's hobbling the zombie first to limit it's mobility...then run like hell to get more bullets.

[Faran Brigo]

What about a massive flamberge of the leech? :p

Seriously though, yes it's not easy to break or pierce a human skull, but it's not uniform in thickness, some spots (and some skulls) are thicker than others. Provided you try to do it with something heavy and hard enough, I think it'll work alright. Something like a heavy hammer, a big crowbar or a hatchet.

[Running From Zombies]

First, yes, it was partly directed at you. It was also directed at the others who believe one whack with a baseball bat will crush a human skull. It just ain't so.

Second, yes, I do realize there is a hole in the skull. Its called the foramen magnum and is one of many holes (also known as foremen) in the base of the occipital bone. It is called the foramen magnum because it is the largest of the foramen and is on average 30-35mm in diameter, or 1.18-1.379 inches. If you feel like you can reliably stab a knife through that opening on a writhing, biting zed (or a living person), go right ahead. Also, let me remind you that the foramen magnum is partially shielded by the vertebrae of the spine, muscles and cartilage, making that 1.18-1.379 inch hole even smaller.

The fact that we're discussing killing zeds doesn't mean that the rules of anatomy or physics suddenly go out the window. I have done a significant amount of reading on human anatomy, and a fair amount of reading on historical accounts of executions, and I'm not just randomly making comments to piss you off.

I think I'll stay with the military's contention that aiming for the base of the skull is, among many others, an applicable take-down tactic.

[JakAttak]

whip out my crowbar and nail him through the skull cap with the sharp edge.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Much better. Thank you guys.

I would decapitate that SOB with my kukri and stomp on the skull afterward.

[Onslaught]

i'd assume that he's reaching out for me as zombies will do when they close in for the kill.

reach across to the hilt of my falcata (mounted cross draw on the left leg, sidearm occupies right leg) with my right arm.

simultaneously grab the outside of his left cuff with my left hand. give a firm tug to the left to throw him off balance and spin him to my left. at the very least it pulls his left arm across his body, away from me.

this position should give me access to his left knee, hamstring, elbow, shoulder, and most imprtantly, the left side and left rear portion of his head.

swing hard (at a slightly downward angle, the falcata woud have been partially raised form drawing it) for a point just behind his ear.

the whole process should happen in the ammount of time it takes to draw the blade and chop once.

alternately:

grab the sheath with the left hand and draw the falcata forcefully with the right.

continue the motion and bring the blade upward through the zombie's left forearm, under the reaching hand. and down on his right forearm.

give a firm front kick to either knee or sternum, and chop the head while zombie is prone.

the kick could be delivered after removing the first hand, they aren't that fast after all.

[JakAttak]

something like that but grab by the throat and up through the chin and palate into the plain.

[csmasterrave]

Hi guys i been reading this forum for quite some time and i decided today to join in the discussion.

Anyway i been thinking about using blades against zombie and chopping them through the skull is not the best thing as you will need to go through quite a number of things. Best way is to either slice them by the neck or stabbing them in the eye or face to get to the brain.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Hi guys i been reading this forum for quite some time and i decided today to join in the discussion.

Anyway i been thinking about using blades against zombie and chopping them through the skull is not the best thing as you will need to go through quite a number of things. Best way is to either slice them by the neck or stabbing them in the eye or face to get to the brain.

I understand where you are coming from, but both instances to where it is said that we would use blades to cut through skull is actually more capable with said weapons. Both the kukri and falcata were designed to be chopping weapons and compete with a hatchet in chopping capability. Research both of these blades and you will see that they have been used for centuries to decapitate and breach the skull. And if it doesn't make it though on the first swing, if you're just that unlucky, the second try will.

[csmasterrave]

i agree with that but thats is going against one zombie. what i have in mind is going against two or more zombies, and i believe the neck is a easier target to go through then the skull.
Anyway would a slightly damaged brain stop a zombie??? or you would need to destroy a large part of the brain?

[Dave Of The Dead]

I'm sure that's been brought up before, and is probably still up for debate. I agree, I would much rather decapitate a zed rather than testing my blade over and over again by trying to chop through skull.

[JakAttak]

heres how I keep with skull piercing ... I use guns.:machgun2::shotg::guns::evil:

[Faran Brigo]

Lets just say that you are just finishing a raid on a super market. You sling your pack over your shoulder and holster you gun. As you walk out and turn a zombie stumbled toward you, mouth open and moaning. You draw your pistol and click click click!You're out of ammo! You have just enough time to draw your trusty melee weapon, whatever it may be! How do you kill this zombie?

ex: decapitation, penetration of the skull, bashing in the skull, ect.

Helps to read the first post in the topic.

[Onslaught]

I'm sure that's been brought up before, and is probably still up for debate. I agree, I would much rather decapitate a zed rather than testing my blade over and over again by trying to chop through skull.

you'll have a tough go of it either way. with decapitation you're cutting through muscle, sinew, and vertebrae. with the direct aproach, you're going through solid skull.
to each his own. the human skull is no match for sharp steel, and neither is the human neck.
i can't help but think that each technique relates to a different style though.
to get through the neck, you are cutting through about 6" of muscle with a 1.5" core of bone. similar to a thick upper arm or thin thigh. cutting through something like this would likely require a draw cut, a slicing motion, similar to that of a katana.
in contrast the skull is only about .25" but it is solid bone. to get through it would require a high impact chop much like one delivered by an axe or kukri.

it would make sense that each weapon wold have an ideal target, right tool for the right job.

[detpat]

i would think you wouldn't have to completely sever the head, just sever the spinal column to disable thee zed. destroying the spinal column is much easier than actually cutting the head free of the body.

[Onslaught]

i would think you wouldn't have to completely sever the head, just sever the spinal column to disable thee zed. destroying the spinal column is much easier than actually cutting the head free of the body.

true enough.

if you're going in through the front, i would argue that they are one in the same. an example would be a righty encountering the zombie from the zombie's right side.
the easiest would be a righty encountering fromthe zombie's left as the spine is completely exposed to the blade.

[mattdettorre123]

My melee weapon is generally my survival knife, so i would poke the zed in the eye they hate that especially when you reach the brain. Or if I out on a raid I have a crowbar that would make Gordon Freeman proud

[Trebek]

Honestly, I think the best be is to use whatever melee weapon you have on hand to create distance and reload. If you are carrying a weapon for close combat that is less than 18 inches long, you are WRONG. Remember these guys can only kill you at extreme close range. Distance is your friend! Taking reloading on the fly out of the picture, still want to fall back to start and let the thing come to you over a greater distance, so you can pick and choose your targets. Personally, I'd try to disable one or both legs, and then dispatch the bastard when it couldn't move.

Oh, and clean your magazines when you get home. if the slide didn't lock back, you were either holding the gun wrong, or the magazine didn't hit the slide lock.

[Dave Of The Dead]

A melee weapon that is less than 18 inches would restrict every melee weapon to a sword, which are hard to find (I'm talking about the real ones not replicas), a shovel, or maybe a large crowbar. I have a 10" kukri and have trained extensively with it. Of course distance is your friend, but sometimes you are put into a situation where there is no distance between you and you opponent with no way of getting back to pick and choose targets. Getting up close and personal is sometimes the only way to survive. Work with what you have and get good at it.

[Haji]

I don't have Glocks that go "click". That said, the rule is "removing the head or destroying the brain". In that case, a battle axe, mace or perhaps a wakizashi would be the tool of choice. I'm 6'6" tall, 300 pounds. Crushing a skull, or at least causing enough trauma to the brain to stop the Zed is well within the realm of possibility for me, but is probably not the case for most. The bigger question is, where the hell is my battle buddy who's supposed to be covering my back while I'm loading the pack?

Also, are we talking about the Luxury Condo City of the Dead zombies that can "learn"? If so, they'll probably recognize a gun and "know" what it can do. That should buy me enough time to do a ficticious clearance drill on the ficticious failure of my Glock 19.:)

[Dave Of The Dead]

Frankly, I don't think a zombie would give a damn if you had a gun and it sure as hell wouldn't hesitate to attack you whether it was smart or not. The point, as stated a page back, is you are all alone in this situation. What do you use and how do you use your melee weapon to dispatch this zombie? I really don't want to have state this a third time.

[Augustus Desius]

If the zombies are fast, then I would likely be wielding a long knife, which I would use to stab up through the floor of the mouth (just past the chin and up or up and back) in order the pin the mouth shut, and hopefully sever the spine from the brain or hit the brain by going through the hard palate.

If they are slow, I would wield a longer, wedged weapon, like a fire axe. To which I would swing hard at the head and hope for a solid connection.

[Boomstick Buddy]

I hit it on the head with my crowbar, when it's on the floor I put the flat end of the crowbar through the eye socket and into the brain... Me: 01 Zombie: 00

[Firedude]

Front snap or side thrust kick to the chest of the ZED to get him off me and gain some distance. Draw back-up firearm, gunshot to the head.:clap:

No back-up firearm? Same thing, except insert favorite melee weapon here, if no clear shot at head, take out legs of the ZED so he's not as mobile while evading his arms and mouth, then crush cranium. :evil: