Sensory overload and zombies

[Faran Brigo]

I was just thinking, like any other animal zombies also use their senses to catch prey. I know this isn't new, for instance some people have suggested stinking yourself up to mask your smell, but I have to wonder if the opposite would work too.

By that I mean since Zeds use sight, hearing and smell, then maybe using flashbangs or tear gas could give you an edge over zombies in a pinch, could be useful in clearing buildings or making an escape route.

Like, say you were trapped on a rooftop and below there was a small crowd of them below and for some reason you can't go back inside the building (fire, the way is blocked, there's more zeds coming for you inside). Just toss a flash bang at the crowd and before they can recover you can make your escape. If you don't have flashbangs maybe regular fireworks could do the job, provided they're also noisy and flashy.

Or, using tear gas, pepper spray, chlorine or other irritants you could impair or disable their sense of smell.

[Hitman]

I think flashbangs would work . the same should hold true with large fireworks (mortors come to mind) . the real question is how long would the effect last.

[Faran Brigo]

Depends on the kind of zombie I suppose, but I think with traditional Romero ghouls it would knock them out for quite awhile, probably longer than a regular human since they already have pretty bad motor skills and reflexes on account of being dead, and if I understand correctly, there's after-effects to those sorts of weapons even after the initial confusion has worn off.

[Dave Of The Dead]

I really don't think that a zombie, in any situation, can get "confused". I'm sure you can blind them or make their ears ring for a few seconds with a flash bang, but I really don't think that they're are intelligent enough to not be able to decide what to do in a situation of choosing between "Looking at the my surroundings or looking at my prey." I'd think that if there was a human around, the zed would use all of its available senses to locate it.

[JakAttak]

flashbangs won't impair smell either and all pepper spray does is cause pain which Z's don't feel

[Faran Brigo]

flashbangs won't impair smell either and all pepper spray does is cause pain which Z's don't feel

Nobody said flashbangs affect smell, and I for one can't think of someone who would think a light and sound grenade would somehow.

Only pain? how do you know? I HAVE been sprayed with pepper spray (prank by friends) and you can't smell anything but an acrid, choking smell for quite awhile, even after the intense pain is gone (which is ironic because the pepper spray itself smalls faintly of anatto). What's your source on that?

I really don't think that they're are intelligent enough to not be able to decide what to do in a situation of choosing between "Looking at the my surroundings or looking at my prey."

Ever gotten drunk and into a fistfight? You can see the other guy, that still doesn't mean you can land a hit on him, even if he's not moving, simply on account of the disorientation. It'd be the same with the zeds, the disorientation could cause them to stumble around and trip while they're trying to chase the outline of whatever they think their prey is (and since their eyesight wouldn't work fine and they couldn't locate you by sound, that "prey" may very well be another zombie).

[Dave Of The Dead]

Hahaha, you have a very good point.

[Augustus Desius]

Sounds like it should work, Though I don't think there will be much confusion, just a momentarily blind and deaf zombie. Note that the main effect only lasts about 5 seconds before vision is restored (don't know about hearing), with only minor effects lasting longer. So this may work if you're just trying to run from one room to another and they are in the way, but you couldn't do much in 5 seconds other than run.

Still, every second is valuable in emergencies.

Also, unless you are particularly smelly, I wouldn't worry to much about their sense of smell. I doubt they could identify a human scent amongst all the environmental scents in any given area. It's just too faint, unless life itself has a smell.

[JakAttak]

just a quick question to disable a Z's senses you would need a combination of flashbangs and pepper spray. how would you get close enough to spray them while keeping away from flashbang

[mattifikation]

You wouldn't need a combination. The way any of those devices work is that they overload one or two senses, and that in turn overloads the brain's ability to process *any* sensory information.

The only sense that zombies don't have is touch, so pressure points are out. But flashbangs work through site and sound, air horns work through sound alone, bright flashlights or lasers could work through site, anything that smells awful would work through smell, and so on.

I think zombies would recover faster than regular humans because the pain factor would never be there, but usually weapons designed to work by sensory overload do NOT rely on pain alone, so there would be some effect still.

You should be able to use a stun gun on a zombie also. Stun guns don't operate on sheer pain, contrary to popular belief. They actually operate by overriding the electrical signals traveling through the nervous system, causing the body to tense up or go limp (sometimes, if you're really lucky, you can get a great laugh when the effect causes somebody to do both at the same time.) In Land of the Dead, electrical fences stopped zombies from being able to move, so there's movie support for that theory too. :-)

[Dave Of The Dead]

Now just because zombies ignore all pain doesn't mean that they don't have the ability to feel you when they can't see you.

[JakAttak]

But Z's would have to rely on all senses equally because of decay of organs

[mattifikation]

Right... but... one sensory input overloaded = all sensory input shut down.

I'm pretty sure a flashbang would work, but it's only going to buy you a few seconds.

[Faran Brigo]

Still, a few seconds is all it would take to wade past a crowd if you don't have enough ammo (or time to deal with them). I'm thinking it would also help tremendously in tight places packed wall to wall that you cannot afford to destroy, but you need to get into.

Besides, unless you'd attract too much attention in a place that's already crawling with zeds, I think tossing a flashbang inside a room where you suspect there might be resistance is a good idea regardless. Zombies aside it might also be the difference between apologizing profusely to temporarily blinded survivors, or being accidentally shot in the head.

[Darkness]

Besides, unless you'd attract too much attention in a place that's already crawling with zeds, I think tossing a flashbang inside a room where you suspect there might be resistance is a good idea regardless. Zombies aside it might also be the difference between apologizing profusely to temporarily blinded survivors, or being accidentally shot in the head.

"I like this point. Well thought out, Faran Brigo, good job." :)

[JakAttak]

good point you would attract a ton of attention

[Dave Of The Dead]

Thats why you always say something before you enter a room. If they're survivors, they might talk back. If its a zombie, they'll moan and start clawing at the door. And if its nothing, well, I wouldn't expect much to happen.

[Faran Brigo]

Well put, except:

If they're survivors, they might be hostile

If they're hostile, they will fire back, not talk back

Hence why I chose the word "resistance". Going around audibly saying "Hello! anybody there!" conveys three messages:

1.- I'm not a zombie
2.- Hey scavengers! here's a potential source of supplies behind this door/corner! shoot me now!
3.- Hey Zed! fresh zombie chowder right here! come get some!

The flashbang will still attract attention, granted, but it's still an improvement.

Attracting attention might be useful though.

[Dave Of The Dead]

But here is another thing. If there are survivors on the other side of the door, hostile or not, and you throw a flash bang in there before entering, they will most likely become hostile after that. I know I would be pissed, or maybe even think "Hey, this guy has better supplies than us. Lets kill him!"

[Faran Brigo]

Oh yes, undoubtedly that will piss almost everyone off, but by the time the effect wears off you've disarmed them and are hold them at gunpoint, which is a wonderfully efficient way to conduct negotiations.

If they're ok people, they will probably be willing to let it go after you talk them out of revenge. If they still want to shoot you, then likely they would have shot you as soon as you announced your presence regardless.

[JakAttak]

there might be a problem what if one guy has his head in something he's fixing or they're wearing earplugs. I know there would still be an effect but wouldn't it be less powerful

[bandits1]

Oh yes, undoubtedly that will piss almost everyone off, but by the time the effect wears off you've disarmed them and are hold them at gunpoint, which is a wonderfully efficient way to conduct negotiations.

If they're ok people, they will probably be willing to let it go after you talk them out of revenge. If they still want to shoot you, then likely they would have shot you as soon as you announced your presence regardless.
If you're going to go around flashbanging and sticking a gun in the face of every survivor that's suspect, I don't think you're going to live long enough to be eaten by zombies. Someone's bound to take having a gun pointed at them seriously enough to blow your head off.


...and then steal all your flashbangs.

[seeker28]

A flashbang could also be used as a distaction. I'm guessing zombies are going to be attracted to noise (since we humans are sooooo silent). So throwing a flashbang one direction and then running in the other might work. What do you guys think?

[Faran Brigo]

No offense but lets analyze what you've just said.

I toss a flashbang in a room with armed survivors, I go in and see that:

1.- It's a couple, give or take 1. I take their guns before the effect wears off, take some steps back and keep them on my sights.

2.- It's much more than I can handle even with the edge that the flashbang gave me, in which case I run in the opposite direction before they recover.

Somehow these people will blow my head off because they're pissed. This implies I'm either a complete moron that tries to take on a dozen survivors armed to the teeth, or that they magically grow firearm appendages because, unless I accidentally flashbang Chow-Yun Fat or Neo, I don't see someone getting their guns back, taking aim and shooting me in the head faster that I could just pull the trigger having them already on the crosshairs.

It is of course, not an argument without merit, going around pissing people off is bound to cause you trouble eventually.

But so is going around trying to be Mr. Niceguy, and I would have to argue that being Mr. Niceguy will get you killed faster than being a prick, considering it's a post apocalyptic dog-eat-dog "society" where people might rather kill you than look at you. It's more dangerous to approach an armed, odd-looking stranger with your guns down than to approach them with your sights trained on them.

As for how much it might piss them off, I don't even think it would be that much since, this would be the default mindset of most people post-outbreak, a defensive borderline paranoid one.

[terror28]

The flashbang might work but then again theres a chance it could blind you too then you would really be in trouble. I would sugest a distraction such as bait to draw there attention away from the building then jump and run away.

[bandits1]

No offense but lets analyze what you've just said.

I toss a flashbang in a room with armed survivors, I go in and see that:

1.- It's a couple, give or take 1. I take their guns before the effect wears off, take some steps back and keep them on my sights.

2.- It's much more than I can handle even with the edge that the flashbang gave me, in which case I run in the opposite direction before they recover.

Somehow these people will blow my head off because they're pissed. This implies I'm either a complete moron that tries to take on a dozen survivors armed to the teeth, or that they magically grow firearm appendages because, unless I accidentally flashbang Chow-Yun Fat or Neo, I don't see someone getting their guns back, taking aim and shooting me in the head faster that I could just pull the trigger having them already on the crosshairs.

It is of course, not an argument without merit, going around pissing people off is bound to cause you trouble eventually...
I think I understand perfectly the scenario as you have it layed out in your mind. I'm saying that even with the advantage of surprise and the flashbang, that every situation might not be as perfectly controllable as you seem to think it will be. Given that most survivors will have the "defensive borderline paranoid" mindset that you mentioned, what's to stop them from firing wildly as soon as the flashbang, or any other unexpected loud noise, goes off?

I just think it's better not to toss a flashbang into every single room of survivors that you don't personally know and trust. Eventually it'll get you killed. They may not be a "Chow-Yun Fat or Neo"...but neither are you.

[Faran Brigo]

I guess the same thing that stops hostage takers and others on which flashbangs are routinely used, nothing. And I guess (as long as I don't charge in stupidly) their blind fire would be marginally effective, like those people too.

I know what you're saying though. Yes, if it happened over and over and over again, there would be at least one ocassion where you get shot, and probably one where that shot might be fatal. I don't need to be Neo, they're the ones that are blind, deaf and disoriented.

I agree that it's by no means a flawless tactic. In return, please concede that if you go around talking to people you don't trust without any sort of edge because it might piss them off, it will also eventually get you killed because you'll run into someone who doesn't really care and just wants whatever you're carrying.

Which one is more likely to get you killed, I don't know. So I guess before flashing or talking to someone, it wouldn't hurt to try to watch them from a distance while trying not to be spotted.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Honestly, if I were in a room with a gun and saw a grenade come through the doorway then suddenly lost all vision and hearing for a second, I would shoot wildly in the general direction of the doorway. Of course I have never been flash banged, so I don't even know what to expect if I were. But there's always the chance that might happen too.

And also, I wouldn't underestimate the ability for humans to hide weapons from each other. If you flashbang someone successfully, and disarm them (or at least to your knowledge). there is always the chance that they have a .38 special hidden up their sleeve.

[bandits1]

^^^Exactly. If I were holed up somewhere and someone threw a flashbang in without provocation, I'd take it as a definite sign of aggression and probably start shooting. I would assume whoever threw the grenade means to do me harm and/or steal all my sh*t.

Faran Brigo - I agree that you do need to try and have an edge at all times. Many survivors are going to be viciously looking out for #1, but as we've seen in DOTD '04, there's acting cautiously and then there's being overly aggressive(the asshole security guards) and making yourself the bad guy, and thus, a threat that needs to be eliminated.

Lobbing flashbang grenades at every suspect stranger is an aggressive attack that will warrant an aggressive response.

[Faran Brigo]

Point taken. It might be too hostile. I nonetheless mantain that it's still an option to keep on the table, but should be avoided.

[JakAttak]

well I'd say knock if they yell or tell you to go ( I doubt they would shoot since they wouldn't know your numbers) If you really NEED to get in unharmed then and only then use a flashbang.

[Faran Brigo]

Since zombies are rather dumb, and use their senses equally, decoys would probably be good against them, at least for awhile. Discuss your ideas about how to fool the suckers here please.

[Behemoth]

Well if you feel safe in going out to tend to your decoys, you could make easy ones from car batteries & horns, mobile phones have a talking voice mail or a speaking ring tone just call the number every so often & the zombies will go to the sound. If battery power runs out, well just use clockwork alarm clocks, you can modify the type of noise they emit by reworking the clanger & bell. The wind is your friend, use it. An ancient trick was to use bee hives filled with dried reeds, the bees made a heck of a racket cleaning up.

[Faran Brigo]

I'd rather not use powered decoys precisely because I'd have to tend to them, and since they're decoys there WILL be a wall of zombies around them if they are working right. The exception here are RC toys for obvious reasons. Are there solar alarm clocks? those would be great.

Fireworks linked on a long fuse would also be useful, for a limited time anyway.

[UNDEAD FRED]

I remember in the book Day by Day Armegeddon they just turned on the car radio on an abandoned car as a decoy, away from thier shelter.

[Behemoth]

My one reservation with fireworks is they might attract more than just zombies, i would try to aviod making explosive type sounds.

[Behemoth]

I remember in the book Day by Day Armegeddon they just turned on the car radio on an abandoned car as a decoy, away from thier shelter.
Well that's good, but the zombies would still be to close, here is what i would do if the situation allowed: Park vehicle on a slope, put car in neutral, place chunk of ice under one of the wheels, once the ice melts the car will roll down the hill, taking the zeds with it.

[Undead Ryan]

Well aside from electrical decoys, the question is would zombies fall for dummies, say you had a few Department store dummies on the top of a building. That could very well lead to a decoy of some sort.

[Behemoth]

Well aside from electrical decoys, the question is would zombies fall for dummies, say you had a few Department store dummies on the top of a building. That could very well lead to a decoy of some sort.

Good idea, if you dressed them in clothes you have been wearing for a week or two they would follow the scent, i doubt if they would hang around it for long though.

[CplKerberos]

This does pose an interesting question. How do zombies sense what is a target? Is it just noise or does it include smell?

This can lead to a number of different things being decoys. If noise is the primary attractor and smell only becomes a factor up close I have to imagine you'd need live decoys of sorts to keep them entertained away from you. An animal in a cage on a stand out of reach perhaps but that's rather cruel to the critter inside.

There is a lot that would go into selecting proper decoys or distractions. Specifically stronghold and surrounding area are the top contenders. If you have an area that is fenced in, i.e. a prison or gated community, you could have trained dogs or even people act as decoys allowing members of your party to slip out the front gate unnoticed by the mass of zombies.

This is a pretty good topic. Makes me think of different setups that would work.

-Cpl K

[Behemoth]

I would be worried about using dogs, untill i had proven that zombies would not attack them.

[CplKerberos]

So long as my puppies are behind a fence, I'll let them attract zombies all day.

[mattifikation]

Fat people with bells nailed into their backs.

And stab wounds in their feet.

[DarthJoe8]

Fat people with bells nailed into their backs.

And stab wounds in their feet.

:lol: :drinking:

[Victor Clark]

Would blow-up dolls be a decent temporary decoy for zombies? The one advantage to that over store maniquins is that they can be deflated and taken more easily from place to place. Plus it could be entertaining for more than just the zombies. :lol:

[Faran Brigo]

<Insert witty comment about impregnating it with human smell here>

[Victor Clark]

<Insert witty comment about impregnating it with human smell here>

:lol: That was awesome! :clap:

[Dave Of The Dead]

If I were in a defensive situation, I would use trip alarms and if they also worked as decoys, fine by me. The string across the lawn with a tin can and a bell on the other end is always a good one.

Firecrackers might simulate a small gun and the zeds might be attracted? *shrug*

[Hitman]

captured raiders tied to a pole with a small radio tied to them. that should draw the zombies and keep them there for a while.

I see it more as live bait than a decoy .

[Faran Brigo]

1.- Remind me never to piss you off man

2.- Why the radio?

[Hitman]

1.- Remind me never to piss you off man

2.- Why the radio?

the human won't start screaming till after the feast has started. something is needed to draw the zombies there in the first place.


btw , I've been told that before.

[Faran Brigo]

I believe the radio's redundat, I'm pretty sure the smell of prey will at least attract some zombies. After that, the screaming will start and won't stop until they rip out his throat, or he passes out due to shock or blood loss.

I can see why, are you proud? you should be :D

[mattifikation]

Instead of wasting a perfectly good radio, you could always poor some motor oil down the leg of their pants and light it. They'll scream.

[ghdeh1]

:evil: Loser tied to a pole in front of a large pit or moat put a zombie on a chain next to the loser but not close enough for him to bite the loser he'll scream and when the zombies come they will fall into the pit or moat.:zom1:
:) or even better put the loser in a box above the hole with what ever he fears inside it :no zombies:

[Dave Of The Dead]

Now all you need is the time and man power to build a moat!

[ghdeh1]

I mean naturally happening Like a river or lake

[Ball Tripper]

This is all assuming zombies will go for a decoy. Zombies are stupid, but they are also supernatural to a certain degree. I think it was the zombies in World War Z or something but I remember in one book they talked about removing all of the sensory organs on a zombie in a lab and them still just knowing where the humans are if they are close enough.

I think the only assuredly reliable decoy would be a living human.

[Faran Brigo]

That was on "The Zombie Survival Guide", the part goes (got it in .pdf format):

E.- Sixth Sense

Historical research, coupled with laboratory and field observation,
have shown that the walking dead have been known to attack even
when all their sensory organs have been damaged or completely
decomposed. Does this mean that zombies possess a sixth sense?
Perhaps. Living humans use less than 5 percent of their brain capacity.
It is possible that the virus can stimulate another sensory ability that
has been forgotten by evolution. This theory is one of the most hotly
debated in the war against the undead. So far, no scientific evidence
has been found to support either side.

Bonus points for anyone who can tell how the 5% bit is wrong.

[bandits1]

That was on "The Zombie Survival Guide", the part goes (got it in .pdf format):



Bonus points for anyone who can tell how the 5% bit is wrong.
Every part of the brain is used - just not all at the same time. I believe only about 10% of the neurons in the brain are firing at any one time.




:greet:

[mattdettorre123]

Cars playing marriage of figaro tend to draw zombies

[RevolutionTime]

While I think small decoys would be helpful, I think a more grand scale approach would really give you results. Dogs, mannequins, or even fat people with bells nailed into their back would only attract so many. It would be hard to set up, and would require a lot of people and supplies, but if you could set up a whole bunch of lights, that would attract zombies for miles around. You could set it up by a cliff or some kind of obstacle that would kill them as they approached it.

[Creature]

Aw hell. I have to post this. Does any one think that they would only go after humans or other WARM things since they have a heat vision thing? Just askin. Might be true.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Zombies have heat vision? Wouldn't that mean that humans have heat vision too? How do I turn on my heat vision? I doubt it.

[mattifikation]

Superman's zombie might have heat vision. The rest of us would die and come back as ordinary rotting corpses, I'm pretty sure.

If we're ever attacked by zombies from Planet Krypton I'm pretty sure we'd be too busy dying to try and defend ourselves.

[DarthJoe8]

I liked the part in LotD with the "sky flowers". I thought it was clever way to distract zack. I would give it a try.:think:

:drinking:

[mattifikation]

Why was the decoy thread moved to the sensory overload thread?

[JakAttak]

I dunno

All I know about decoys is trip the guy you don't like while running.

[Darkness]

Why was the decoy thread moved to the sensory overload thread?

"Because they are both ways of distracting zombies." ;-)




"I think decoys, using the concept of sensory over load, would be best. Attracting the Zombies, with noise and lights, drawing them to a trap, or away from you, could be very useful." :)

[rogeneck]

Can i ask when you add a thread into another one that you change the name of the thread so it doesn't get off topic till some one points out the fact of the change.

well the ear drum is the last sensory organ that will stop working because the bone parts wont rot. but zombies will most likely hunt by 1 ear 2 nose 3 eyes 4 touch 5 taste (for all of you who just thought of a zombie biting every thing in sight your not alone)(brick NO, pole NO, tree NO, animal maybe?, human YESS!!!!1). so i thing the bang will be very useful.

but alas flash grenades are illegal so you would have to find them your self. and i dont know about you people but i think police stations are 3rd worst place to go first being hospital second being grocery store.

[mattifikation]

I can't believe I didn't think of this sooner. Zombies can't feel anything and they have no reflexes. If they get something in their eye, they won't shut their eyelid to protect it.

You could use spray paint to block a zombie's eyesight. They'd be too stupid to wipe it out of their eyes and they'd be too... well... zombified to close their eyes to stop you from doing it.

[Bob]

Wow
Paint what an idea!
I have got to think on the ramifications of this.

[Deej]

Dudes - straight up bleach in a watergun.

They wouldn't protect themselves, and they'd be blinded.