Zombjitsu!

[Augustus Desius]

Topic

Hey, what hand-to-hand combat style would you think be the most useful on a zombie covered world? I personally think judo, as it has a number of methods to defeat overwhelming strength and grappling.

Also, I made this topic before, but I couldn't find it since the revamp. So I'm remaking it. Please delete this if you find the previous one.

Example:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scenario:
-Situation: Z-day
-Location: Gun Shop
-Mission: Restocking ammunition
-Party: Alone

You enter the shop, closing the door behind you. All is quiet and dark, the only light is that which is filtering though the broken segments of the boarded windows. You notice most everything has been looted already. Mostly what you find is loose rounds on the floor, empty cases, and blood. You decide to head upstairs.

When you get there the door is locked, you listen carefully, placing you ear against the door, in order to pick up any sound, and other than your own heartbeat, you hear nothing. Not to be fooled, you gently knock on the door, in order to alert anyone inside, or perhaps get a zombie to move. You listen again. Nothing. You decide to kick open the door.

No sooner than you do so, a zombie stumbles though the opening, hands stretched out. You attempt to draw your melee weapon, but the zombie was too close, and you can't draw the weapon without exposing yourself to a bite. It grabs onto you, struggling to draw you in. In an instant, you close the distance, position your center of gravity beneath its, and perform a perfect hip throw.

The zombie now lies on it back on the floor. You step back and kick as hard as you can. You are rewarded with a satisfying crunch as your boots come away sticky with undead brain matter.


tldr: be prepared.

[Darkness]

"Is this one about Weaponless Combat?"

[Augustus Desius]

Yes'm

Also, grats on making moderator!

[Darkness]

"Cool, just wanted to get the description right." :)

"And thank you." :)

[Zombie_215]

What if you don't have any hand to hand combat training? I have no idea what a "perfect hip throw" is or how to do it.

[Behemoth]

When zombie lunges, side step, whack it in the small of the back with both hands like a baseball swing without the bat, zombies momentum will keep it moving forward, run into room, shut door if possible, draw weapon, go back to finish of zombie or if unsure that a single is all you have to face, get the heck out!

[fester_hicks]

Ya...Judo i'd think...but i hope not to be that damn close... but you have to think, alittle karate or akito wouldnt be bad either just because it might not only be Zeds your battling... some striking skills would be good

[mattifikation]

Judo is too close for comfort for me. I'd rather use something that keeps them at a distance, so they can't bite me. Tae Kwon Do and some nice boots sounds like the ticket.

[zmbvan]

Muey Thai kick-boxing would be perfect for this type of combat. Hell any form of fighting could probably take down a zombie. But you still have about a 50/50 chance of being bit.

[zombie butcher]

Hmm I teach Taekwondo and I think my legs could keep them at bay but I would prob go into my Aikido training to send them flying away from me once they got in close. Also grappling would be a nice skill if you are one on one and they had you pinned to the ground. But if get pinned with more then one I would think you were screwed.
Escrima Training would be also usefull.

[skullwarrior]

i think ive played enough re4 to try and do hunks special move to side step a zombie and snap its neck.

[fester_hicks]

i will tend not to put myself even CLOSE to a situation were I have to get that close to a Zed. Who knows what the situation will be regarding the initial reason the Zed's arose....

[Evil Pug]

The Father McGruder style! :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt-29u0e7Bo


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b38/lcple3/priest.jpg

[voyager]

The defensive moves learned while studying judo and grappling would be very useful in close quarters. Zeds are mostly grabbers to pull either them to you or themselves to you to bite. I belive very tight fitting, but still practical and protective, would be key. If they can't grab hold it is easier to slip around so to speak

[IronJayBee]

Koppojutsu is a bonebreaking technique, also a great way to break graples and holds that a zombie might have on you

[Faran Brigo]

What kind of zombies are we talking about here?

NoTLD 68? They're pathetic one on one, Ben took a few at the same time, they're slow, weak and dumb.

Dawn remake? I think you're toast if you don't have weapons, those things look RABID.

Land of the dead? the zed might be armed, but I guess you could still kick its ass hand to hand if it was only one.

[fester_hicks]

I will study the ancient art of RUNNING, with a minor disipline in the ancient art of tripping the fat guy first

[Headless Lynx]

What would you do if a zed was to burst through your door and attack you off guard?

I would put my thumbs in it's eyes and push as far as I could to the brain and I would quickly rap a t-shirt or some clothing around my hand and would then grab it's jaw and try to rip off it's jaw. :evil:

[RogueAI]

I'd try to get behind him and break his neck. Although, depending on his speed, simply kicking him back and running for a weapon may be the best option.

[IronJayBee]

I agree with Rouge, i would just keep them back until i could grab something to wail on it with :evil:

[kai055]

you could also use elbows if zombies get 2 close and hit under the chin or in the chest.

[jagus12]

I would just try the sweeper! (kick his legs making him fall, and kick the ****er in the head:evil:)

[Umbrela]

I'd have to agree that Judo would be the best unarmed fighting style to deal with zombies. The problem is I can't seem tho find a dojo that teaches judo.

[Augustus Desius]

I'd have to agree that Judo would be the best unarmed fighting style to deal with zombies. The problem is I can't seem tho find a dojo that teaches judo.

Although it isn't nearly as effective as learning from a dojo, there are several sites that give you instruction on the techniques of judo. Look for video files so you can see it in action. Also, the USM FM21-150 was released a while ago, which borrows heavily from judo for it's hand-to-hand. Just use google and search for FM21-150 and you should be able to find a .pdf to download somewhere. Beyond that, it's just looking for some people who will let you practice on them.

[Umbrela]

Although it isn't nearly as effective as learning from a dojo, there are several sites that give you instruction on the techniques of judo. Look for video files so you can see it in action. Also, the USM FM21-150 was released a while ago, which borrows heavily from judo for it's hand-to-hand. Just use google and search for FM21-150 and you should be able to find a .pdf to download somewhere. Beyond that, it's just looking for some people who will let you practice on them.
Thanks, I'll be sure to look for that.

[JakAttak]

Judo would be good any martial art that teaches how to initiate and escape holds to buy you time to whip out your glock and shoot it between the eyes.

[Cjyounger33]

I was thinking about this the other day and the best martial arts I came up with for zombie defense is aikido and/or Judo. First off, most strikes against zombies would most likely be ineffective. Most sources seem to agree that pain is no deterrence to zombies and that is the primary effect of strikes. Incapacitating strikes such as knee kicks could be practical however. So learning how to kick might be a good idea seeing as a zombie with broken legs would be easier to outrun. Other than that though, most zombie-like attacks seem to be nothing but sloppy force and aggression. Aikido and judo would be perfect for redirecting said force to take a zombie down quickly and easily and make a quick getaway. Thoughts?

[VideoJunkie]

...uh...ok, how about...well, see I...um..:loon:


Ok, here goes. Don't do that. That's it, just don't do that. I think Jenny said it best R-U-N Forest! R-U-N!!!It also works with zombies!

[mattifikation]

Judo requires grappling. The most useful techniques from the grappling arts would be the escapes.

So let's say you get cornered somewhere by a zombie and you're out of ammo.

Do you really want to have to get close-in to do a Judo move on it?

Or would you rather just knock it over with a kick to the chest? You don't have to cause pain. You just have to knock it out of the way. If you're a good, fast, powerful kicker, a slow zombie isn't going to be able to grab your leg in time.

In all other situations, VJ has it right. Run, Forrest indeed. So free running/parkour might be a more suitable martial-arts-like sport to get into for zombie training.

[Subgenius]

I agree. Don't get in close and wrestle with a zombie. But, if you cannot help it, then it would help to know Judo throws and Jiu-Jitsu sweeps in order to keep from being bitten or scratched. Sweeps are usually used in Jiu-Jitsu and wrestling or grappling to get out from under an opponent. So, if you get surprised and end up on your back, then a sweep would be helpful. Judo also has sweeps, but less so than other forms of hand-to-hand close-in fighting where a punch or a kick may not be an option.

But, ultimately, since zombies (usually) want to bite you, any close-quarters fighting will be extremely dangerous as they can bite you or scratch you and cause you to die without winning the fight. I don't know many martial arts forms that really focus on defending from being bitten or scratched at the way that a zombie seems to do in most every zombie story. Still, I would rather know how to defend myself than to wrestle around with a zombie without any idea of what to do.

[mattifikation]

Well, a scratch is generally only going to be a problem if their bodily fluid gets into the wound. Of course, since they're decaying, there's a huge chance of that. So I guess this post is a big waste of time. Oh wellz. Haha

[craniumcrusher]

I think that all fighting systems that were developed for fighting people are ineffective for combat against the undead. If you try to grapple with a zombie, what’s to stop it from biting you? If you try to punch a zombie there is a good chance the zombie will catch your fist with its mouth. I believe the only way to slay an undead unarmed is to first knock it to the floor by kicking it in the back of the knees and then jump-stomp on ether its temple or the base of its scull. Heavy steel toe work boots work best.

[Darkness]

I think that all fighting systems that were developed for fighting people are ineffective for combat against the undead. If you try to grapple with a zombie, what’s to stop it from biting you? If you try to punch a zombie there is a good chance the zombie will catch your fist with its mouth. I believe the only way to slay an undead unarmed is to first knock it to the floor by kicking it in the back of the knees and then jump-stomp on ether its temple or the base of its scull. Heavy steel toe work boots work best.

"I have a suggestion.....check out this thread......."

http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15836


"........and come back." ;-) :lol:

[VideoJunkie]

Darkness has a point. The right protective wear would make a HUGE difference in a melee situation with a zed. Good leather welding gloves would make it impossible to bite your hands or forearms. Similar gear could be used to protect the neck and shoulders, which are always at risk in close combat. Hell, a wetsuit would offer great protection from bites! Then there's the idea of using chainmail and gauntlets! I nice armored glove would give your fist that "biteproof" quality so in demand with the Zombjitsu crowd! Not to mention adding a nice bit of extra bang to your punches! So, if you want to go hand to hand with a zed, think PROTECTIVE GEAR!

As for me, no thanks! I'll trade the extra protection for the ability to move quickly. Also, without the wetsuit I'll be able to turn my head. Being able to look behind me might be a real plus in the survival game. I simply refuse to engage in ANY melee with zeds. That's just not bright! So I REFUSE!

Okay, for the sake of argument, if I did somehow wind up confronted with a couple of zeds while I was unarmed, I'd...Oh Crap! I was gonna use my freakishly deadly ninja skills, but I just remembered that I don't have any!

I guess I'll just fight a zed the way I'd fight a drunk. Count on his lack of agility and even greater lack of intellect! Grab one of his arms and spin him away from me, then run. Repeat as needed. The truth is that I'm not nearly confident enough in my hand to hand skills to get physical with a zed if there was any other way. I'd be willing to go toe to toe with most men (didn't say I'd WIN, just that I'm willing), but when it comes to infectious undead...I'm all about the 'better part of valor'! Hey, that's just me.

I guess what I'm saying is that as long as we're all discussing this from the position that unarmed combat with a zed is out of the question, except as the last resort of someone who's plan has gone TERRIBLY awry, then I guess it's not a bad idea to figure out how you'd deal with the situation. Planning for the worst case scenario is an excellent survival strategy! But if any of you young ninja wannabe's are thinking of this as a viable alternative to actual weapons...that's just a terrible idea. Hell, what makes you think you could keep a zed from biting you in hand to hand combat? Even professional boxers can't stop that from happening!OOWWW!!! My Ear!!! Damn you TYSON!!!
What makes you think you'll do any better?

[Bob]

If you carry enough guns you won't wind up unarmed.
But if I found myself in that most horrible of situations I would...
Hmmm I am at a loss, no knife, no gun, no chucks, no axe or baseball bat?
I guess I would jump off a building and find out if I can fly.

[Subgenius]

It's all based on the circumstances. What if you are not in the military, SWAT, or some other force where they get issued body armor? What if you are just a common Joe or Jane with jeans and a tee-shirt? In that case, you have to fight them (or use the suicide option). Having a gun is great, if you happen to be home when the outbreak sweeps through your town. Or, if you always carry it. What if you did not bring it with you?

Hand-to-hand combat with zombies is just not going to go well. Most of what we discussed here assumes (or so it seems) that just one zombie is attacking you while you do not have weapons to fight with and cannot easily run away. So far, the only smart option seems to be knocking the zombie down and placing the boots to its head repeatedly. Or, grab the nearest blunt or sharp object and whack the zombie into the afterlife.

If there are more than one or two zombies, then you are in trouble. Especially if these are fast-moving zombies. Slow moving zombies are easier to fight. Look at how well they did in Dawn of the Dead 1978. Numbers will always win out eventually, so you have to get to a safe place fast.

[Bob]

If I have pants on I have at least one gun.
If I can make it to my office or home I will be ok.

[VideoJunkie]

If I have pants on I have at least one gun.
If I can make it to my office or home I will be ok.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again! Whatever happens. I hope and pray that you'll have pants on!:lol:

[Krazymouse]

Grab the Neck, Its probably decayed a bit. If you can, rip it off with your bare hands. The more it decayed the easier. If you can't, Shake it around and try to cut off blood circulation. The brain needs blood to work, even if it is zombiefied

[VideoJunkie]

The brain needs blood to work, even if it is zombiefied


Gotta disagree with that. If blood flow were a determining factor, putting a few rounds through the heart would drop a zed. Hell, for that matter, any really significant trauma would cause enough disruption of the blood flow to stop a zombie. It doesn't work that way. Sorry, but to stop a zed you've gotta destroy the brain!

[Necrowerx]

What would you do if a zed was to burst through your door and attack you off guard?

I would put my thumbs in it's eyes and push as far as I could to the brain and I would quickly rap a t-shirt or some clothing around my hand and would then grab it's jaw and try to rip off it's jaw. :evil:

I gotta say, I think that's a genuinely bad idea.
For starters, I doubt your thumbs are long enough to reach the brain stem/medulla. Second, it might take more pressure than you expect, depending on your knowledge - a lot of people have the misconception that eye sockets are holes into the skull, but they're not - there is solid, albeit thin, bone in the back of the ocular cavities. You'd have to break through that to get to the brain, which takes time, time in which you could get bitten.
Just push 'im over if you can and run.

[Necrowerx]

Thanks, I'll be sure to look for that.

I have FM 21-150 in PDF if you still want it.

[UNDEAD FRED]

The brain needs blood to work, even if it is zombiefied


The head allways seem to live on in Romero movies once it gets decapitated.

[MFISH618]

The head allways seem to live on in Romero movies once it gets decapitated.

Yeah it does. I'm getting a chain mail suit, steel toed shoes and mucho ammo.
A sharpened steel rod might come in handy.

[craniumcrusher]

Well if I had the luxury of armor I could use it as a weapon itself. I would have a suit of riveted chainmail, not links that are just bent or even welded, but Minnie bolted. With a chain hood and if possible a chain facemask covering my nose and mouth, and a pair or those big goggles S.W.A.T teams and skiers are so fond of but I would replace the elastic band with a tight leather belt. If I can’t get the chain hood I would ware a full face motorcycle helmet that has a visor and possibly, drill a shallow on the center of the fore head of the helmet then fill the whole with liquid epoxy.
Then when dry drill a long, fat screw into the epoxy then snip the end off and cut it to a 4 sided spike with my trusty bolt cutters. You will need to have a steel file to smooth the sides of the screws and to keep your spikes sharp. You could use that for some serious no hands zombie slaying. A pair of plate armor gauntlets that have on the top of the hand in the same place as Wolverine’s middle claw. You could punch clean whole in a zombies fore head with that. Spiked elbow and knee pads as well. It might be possible to weld a spike on to a steel toe boot. All spikes should be about 3 ½’’.
I believe armor such as this could render melee weapons obsolete. A punch, elbow, knee, kick, and head butt are all now one hit wonders. There is no rebound time, by that I mean there is no brief period of time after you swung and how long it takes you to deliver another shot. I really don’t like to define martial arts by styles but if I had to you should become familiar with judo, jujitsu, karate, Taekwondo, and Aikido. Muay tie would be especially effective because all they focus on is punching kicking, Kneeing, and elbowing.
So what do you think?
:)

[Darkness]

"Okay, my point wasn't to start a conversation about clothing and such in this thread. That's for the other thread." :naughty:


"My point is, you should take two things in to consideration in this conversation."

"A). Some of us are planning on wearing protective clothing, so you should adjust your comments accordingly."

"B). Most of us are gonna be wearing 'something' to protect our skin, usually including some kind of heavy duty gloves, such as work gloves. This will make a difference on how quickly a zombie will be able to get a bite in." :think:


"If you plan on wearing protective clothing, just say so, without major details. We will add it to our data." :)

[craniumcrusher]

Sorry, I guess I got more than a little carried away. :doh:

[Warlock]

I'd prefer Krav Maga or Pai Shin Te Kwa, not Judo as it is grappling and since you're so close you it's easy to get bitten

[Bob]

craniumcrusher

Just don't fall in a pond...

[KrimsonKing]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nmoCTo513M

these guys are the ultimate skull smashing martial artists.:clap:

You can do it to, just start hitting stuff that is harder than you are. Just watch the video.

[Subgenius]

I am learning the martial art form known as Flying Guillotine in preparation for the zombie outbreak. :)

Master of the Flying Guillotine - U.S. Theatrical Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmdP1qTjGZY

[kiltedninja]

Krav Maga is a must in this situation, they teach effective striking, escaping holds, and counter throws.

I think Cystema(sp?), A Russian art, similar to Judo would also be effective.

Certain disciplines of Kempo, there's like 300 of them.

[tytanos14]

Judo Would be Perfect Z's Pretty much grab and bite so just Deflect there grabs

[KrimsonKing]

A zombie would grab you with its teeth, not its hands.:roll:

[KrimsonKing]

You must remember the only way to kill a zombie is to kill the brain.

Hand to hand martial arts that are designed to fight people would be ineffective against the undead. If you want to just knock a Zom down just kick it in the chest or back of its knee. It’s a lot safer and quicker than trying to grapple with it. If you are untrained and are going to kill a zombie knock it to the floor then stomp on its temple or the base of its skull. It may be possible to sever its spine with an axe kick (downward kick with the heel of your foot) delivered at the base of the back of the neck to immobilize it.

If you are going to be an effective martial artist against zombies, you must become proficient in hard body training. You could then easily crush a skull with a single punch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nmoCTo513M

[Darkness]

If you are going to be an effective martial artist against zombies, you must become proficient in hard body training. You could then easily crush a skull with a single punch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nmoCTo513M

"Tell me more about this 'hard body training', I'm interested. I know its been done, breaking big hard stuff with the bare hands. I'd like to learn more." :think:

[KrimsonKing]

Everything I know about it is in the video (which I highly suggest you watch if you haven’t already) which is a clip from a show called fight science on the National Geographic channel. Sorry I can’t be of more help.

The more you traumatize your bones the more calcium structure they lay down, making them harder so you can break harder and harder things without injuring yourself. It is painful in the beginning but totally worth it in the long run.

Here is a guy doing some hand conditioning with a hammer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf31ZUkoHow

[snakebite]

I would lean more towards styles like aikido or hapkido where you are twisting and breaking joints and limbs--thus preventing them from grabbing you/standing up/moving. Granted you'd still need to kill them and they would still be dangerous but you can "disarm" them with proper application of force to joints, etc. I myself have dallied a little and its awesome. As an actual Army Infantryman I have spent most of my time with Krav-Maga (the Army advocates/teaches jiu-jitsu, and it is fun but not really good for actual fighting. It is useful and provides a good base, but you need more. Most Combat Arms units encourage this extr-curricular training, but officially the Army stays away from it to prevent injuries. Anyways...). Krav-Maga is awesome in its defensive applications for civillians, but really shines when taken in the context of someone in actual combat. Its all about beating somebody senseless while taking/tossing them to the ground (via joint-lock, throw, what-have-you) and finishing them off with repeated blows to the face, neck, head, ankle, whatever. By the by you can kick somebody in the head pretty hard without breaking the skull...So yeah, I guess thats it. Krav-Maga or Aikido (if you've done it for a while).

[zombienerd]

I am wondering what you guys think about martial arts as a defense against zombies. I practice both Judo and Jiu-jitsu and I think these would be the most effective. These two disciplines teach techniques for a smaller and weaker person to subdue a heavier one, including chokes, limb breakage, throws, but no striking. I think striking would not work, BUT chokes, breaking a zombies neck, legs and arms, and throwing them with ease (technique) would prove valuable if only dealing with one or a few slow ones. Some of the submission holds would even work for just holding the zombie until helps arrives.

So, 1. what do you guys think of the above, and,

2. I am wondering if it is possible to choke a zombie. Yeah yeah, "but zombies are dead..." but there has to be some brain function, right? Their need to feed, their senses and coordination required for walking mostly comes from the brain so for the brain to function, shouldn't there be a connection from the brain to the body that can be interrupted? Chokes are just that, disconnecting activity between the brain and other organs that the brain needs to function. Choking = temporary incapacitation and eventual brain destruction.

[kiltedninja]

IMO, I'd think that if you're in the situation where you can choke a zombie, break it's neck.
Judo and Jujitsu would be great, except that they don't teach much in the way of striking. Why get into a grapple with a zombie, when you can simply stomp out it's knee and leave? that's why I say Krav Maga, In my class, we're told to wear street clothes, to get used to fighting in our normal attire.
If you're surrounded by multiple zombies, there is methods of throwing them about to escape, it's all about your defense, if you're going in to fight Zack bare handed, then you're F**ked, now if you'd dropped your weapon when you got blindsided by one, that's a different story.

[Bob]

The techniques should all be about keeping the maximum distance from a Zombies primary weapon, their mouth.

Remember in conventional martial arts you can heal.
You do not heal from a zombie bite.

Break his legs not his neck.

A dragger is less dangerous than a shambler except perhaps for the trip hazard.

[Redfields]

I would think the RLH(run like hell) fighting style would be extremely effective in keeping alive that little longer. If you got enough energy to fight a zombie, use that energy to run.

But back onto the point, I would think that Muay-Thai would not be bad against these zombies if you dont mind the risk of getting chomped by engaging in non-weaponed combat. It is because of the kicks and the stance. With the TS's opinion on Judo, I sort of disagree because of the style that you would do take-downs in. It sometimes requires slamming when grappled where the zombie would MOST likely have bitten you.

IMO handed combat with zeds is a NO-NO

But, yes that is my opinion, Muay-Thai Kickboxing

P.S I agree with kiltedninja's view on this. Break its knee and run. Too bad I am not trained in Krav Maga.

[JimiVengeance]

im not experienced in hand to hand combat...so in this situation i push the z away and then run like a little bitch til im able to find a way to blast em haha:drinking:

[kiltedninja]

The techniques should all be about keeping the maximum distance from a Zombies primary weapon, their mouth.

Remember in conventional martial arts you can heal.
You do not heal from a zombie bite.

Break his legs not his neck.

A dragger is less dangerous than a shambler except perhaps for the trip hazard.

Amen to that mate. A dragger is also open to a good stomp on it's skull.

[the_velociraptor]

...As in, instead of bite-resistant whatever, you're caught with clothes that could be easily be bitten through.

What shifts in tactics would occur, besides an extreme amount of caution in CQC and "lol find new clothes"?

[Deadman83]

My one and only plan for defeating a Zombie pack or two would be to run as fast as I could to get distance then if cornered without a weapon,I'd improv with a rock or something I could use for a club and just go town bashing skulls in unless bitten,in that case I would just be more of a danger to any surrounding enemies.

Because if you're bitten it's bye-bye anyway so why avoid the Kamakazi route.

[Deadman83]

I would use the D.F.B. technique (Dirty Fighting Bastard).

[kiltedninja]

DFB is street fighting, and we're not trying to get into scraps with Zack, he's mean and bites people. If I was unarmed, and cornered by enough Zombies that there's a possibility that I'll escape, then I'd just use a push kick, knock them, and get out.
A good push kick is enough to knock even a well balanced person over. If I'm just unarmed, I'm going to leave.

[kiltedninja]

Digging up an old topic yet again, I saw something interesting about a week ago. A friend of mine who was a professional Muay Thai fighter in Thailand from the ages of 14-16 showed me that he can kick through a piece of (roughly)3 inch thick bamboo with his shin.

So, the point I'm getting at is that our bones are as open to being broken by the strikes that we throw as well, unless we've conditioned our bones to such torture as these fighters. Kyokushin Karate is another one that can break insanely hard objects with their strikes.

I'm not saying I'm an expert on all martial arts, but I'd like to do a little analysis of the ones most popular in America.

TKD:
Pros: Certain strikes like the push kick and side kick can knock back enemies, at master levels, extremely dangerous.

Cons: Strikes with top of foot and the balls of feet, not good places to strike with. No training in throws/grappling.

Karate:
Pros: Again, Certain strikes can create distance and damage if used correctly. Mastery of this art ensures that you can break about anything(I broke 4 ceramic tiles at ten years old).

Cons: Strikes are usually centered towards body, low line kicks aren't used, and you fight how you train, so that creates a problem. No training in grappling.

Western Style Boxing: Pros: Teaches good movement, and can create a good sense of range, good against living targets.

Cons: Strikes with the fist to the hard head of a human can cause broken hands and cuts on the knuckles, no training in use of legs, but its fun.

Kung Fu:
Pros:I'm not too sure about this one, since I've done relatively little, (I trained for about a month), but the way strikes are delivered can be both powerful and fast, as well as precise to a point at higher levels.

Cons: Being unfamiliar with it, the only one I can see is that Kung fu styles tend to be quite flashy, and if you're not a master, it can be difficult to strike quick and hard enough to break joints.

Judo:
Pros: Teaches Grappling and joint locks, which can be used to break the joints of Zack. Many Judo schools emphasize you staying on your feet while you toss your enemy about.

Cons: Very little striking, if any. Grappling with Zack seems like a bad idea unless you're really good.

Jujutsu(traditional):
Pros: Teaches movement, grappling, weapons usage, and more often than not, is very similar and more brutal than Judo.

Cons: Same as Judo.

BJJ:
Pros: Teaches grappling and painful joint locks, nuff said.

Cons:Mostly ground fighting, designed for use against enemies who are going to wrestle back, not try to gnaw the closes limb off.

Aikido:
Pros: A very different type of tossing your enemy about than the previous three, in my thirteen months of practice, I very rarely had my head anywhere near my opponents. Teaches weapons, schools often teach Iaido and Kendo as well, I loved training in Aikido.

Cons: Unarmed striking is not taught in aikido.

Kempo:
Pros:Very dirty and brutal fighting, teaches striking, joint control, weapons, movement, and often in a very unconventional and functional way.

Cons: This style was created before firearms were really a worry for people, and as such, doesn't have a defence for them generally.

Krav Maga:
Pros: Oh, this style is just lovely, if by lovely you mean dangerous, brutal and bloody, then it's the most beautiful thing ever. Teaches the most efficient style of unarmed AND armed defence/offence that I've ever seen or partaken of.

Cons: I'll let you know when I find one.

Ninjutsu:
Pros: Ninjutsu's H2H system is kempo, and various weapons, it teaches ukemi(falling), and a god damn million different types of weapons, as well as some empty hand fighting. I have a friend who's a black belt in it.

Cons: Most of the weapons are exotic and rather pointless in a ZPAW situation.

Muay Thai:
Pros: Brutally effective striking if you know where to hit. There's usually some form of physical conditioning involved. Teaches some take downs. Requires strength and flexibility, which are useful elsewhere.

Cons: I dunno about you, but I don't want to be close enough to Zack to knee and elbow him in the face, I'd rather just use a kick to knock it over, and stomp on its head.

Any that I missed, or have some other comments? Go ahead and say so. I've practiced almost all of these more than a little, Kung fu and TKD are the ones I've practiced the least of.

[mattifikation]

Against a dumb, uncoordinated, and shambling zombie with little or no reaction time, I actually think the powerful kicks in Tae Kwon Do could really shine. You can put a lot of distance between yourself and a zombie with a high-powered kick. It all depends on how quickly the zeds can snatch a leg out of the air.

I never had any problem using the ball of my foot as the striking point. That's only with some kicks anyways. Other kicks use different parts of the foot. Also, I learned some throws, joint locks, and grappling in TKD although it wasn't a big focus. I think that just comes down to whether you're in a "self defense" TKD class or a "sporting" TKD class.

I still wouldn't want to try it on the street in a real fight, though.

[kiltedninja]

You probably had a more defence oriented teacher then. The class I was in, which supposedly turns out some of the best black belts in the world, never taught anyone about that. And I kicked the shit out of their 'best black belt' my first sparring match, because in Kempo we were taught to strike differently.

The example with hitting with the ball of the foot, I was referring to the push kick, in which almost every other martial art strikes with the heel.

I said that the kicks of TKD can do damage, but only if used properly, like any other strike or tool.

[Bob]

You know I have posted some incredible wisdom in some of these threads.
They should pay me for posting here.

[kiltedninja]

I pay attention to your wisdom Bob, I usually have similar insight.

[Patrickwontsurvive]

I would just hit them hard. They arent people and they arent doing to try and block or hit/ kick back so why treat them like they would? Just stay far enough away to not get grabbed and knock them over or take their legs out so they cant follow (very fast)

[SWAT Zombie]

i think any martial arts worth a damn would be effective. not all people try to block your attacks. some, like zombies, will just try to tackle you or drag you to the ground. and as far as taking on multiple zombies, check out some of steven seagals old training footage. his black belt tests involved three people trying to tackle you to the floor. any real martial arts should train to defend against that sort of thing. but that's kind of advanced, so i'd start straight away for any who haven't but want to. people also try to bite at times and good grappling techniques should be able to prevent that, after all biting is another form of attack to defend against. imo too many martial arts schools over emphasize sparring, ie competition boxing and kickboxing, instead of good self defense techniques. you need to be able to use your training against someone who boxes, kickboxes, grapples, flails drunkenly or just goes nuts and tries to maul you tooth and claw. as bruce lee said, use whats effective, discard what isn't. he drew from many different fighting styles and used what was effective for him. thats the real challenge with martial arts, finding what works for your body type and personality. and then training your guts out to get good.
as far as pain goes, i don't think too much reliance on causing your attacker pain is very good anyway. people on drugs can take pain and some people just have a high threshold. taking control of them, putting them in a position where they can't attack and finishing them off is what my experience in martial arts has shown me works best. when a zombie reaches for you there are techniques that will allow you to take control of their arms and lock them up in a way that keeps them from biting, clawing or whatever else, then you'll need a good neck break or solid head crushing strike if you're capable(away from the mouth, but then again thats something else i've learned, don't punch to the mouth, teeth can cut). and for multiple zombies, there are techniques that take control of one and maneuver them into the path of the others, causing them to trip over each other.
but to be able to pull off any effective martial arts techniques against any opponent takes hard, realistic training and a tough, strong mind.
and i agree tho on krav maga, from what i've seen, i've found no cons with that. those guys are the shiz-nit!!!

[angekfire]

Krav Maga would be the best right out of the gate. It teaches you everything you need to know to escape any situation unharmed, including when you're outnumbered, which would be one of the most important skills with zombies everywhere.

Tae-Kwon-Do's kicks, a boxer's punches, and Muay Thai knee strikes are powerful enough to at the very least cause a concussion in a live human, a concussion strength should be enough to at least temporarily stun a zombie while you can escape, grab a weapon, or head stomp. I would say one of those 3 would be the next best thing to Krav Maga. You don't really want to have to grapple with a zed.

[kiltedninja]

Krav Maga would be the best right out of the gate. It teaches you everything you need to know to escape any situation unharmed, including when you're outnumbered, which would be one of the most important skills with zombies everywhere.

Tae-Kwon-Do's kicks, a boxer's punches, and Muay Thai knee strikes are powerful enough to at the very least cause a concussion in a live human, a concussion strength should be enough to at least temporarily stun a zombie while you can escape, grab a weapon, or head stomp. I would say one of those 3 would be the next best thing to Krav Maga. You don't really want to have to grapple with a zed.

I've done both TKD and boxing, and I'm currently doing Muay Thai, and Muay Thai is alot more streamlined and effective than TKD, the boxing aspect of it is about the same, but Muay thai's kicks are far more powerful than TKD's kicks. And we learn alot of the same boxing drills as regular boxing.

[angekfire]

I remember seeing a documentary on the power of different martial arts. A boxer had the strongest punch out of them all, with enough force to give someone a concussion.

I then remember for kicks, Tae-Kwon-Do came second in power (way above a boxer's punch), but was still waaaay behind Muay Thai, which a knee from Muay Thai was the equivalent of the impact from a car crash (I forget the speed of the collision).

I think Muay Thai is largely much closer for combat though, focusing more on elbows and knees (not 100% sure as I've never done it) and Tae-Kwon-Do has a lot of longer ranged kicks that are still powerful enough to deal some serious damage to a zombie skull.

I don't think Krav Maga was in that documentary, but Ninjutsu had Dim-Mak which made it the single most destructive martial art. However, that wouldn't do a damn thing to a zed.

[kiltedninja]

I remember seeing a documentary on the power of different martial arts. A boxer had the strongest punch out of them all, with enough force to give someone a concussion.

I then remember for kicks, Tae-Kwon-Do came second in power (way above a boxer's punch), but was still waaaay behind Muay Thai, which a knee from Muay Thai was the equivalent of the impact from a car crash (I forget the speed of the collision).

I think Muay Thai is largely much closer for combat though, focusing more on elbows and knees (not 100% sure as I've never done it) and Tae-Kwon-Do has a lot of longer ranged kicks that are still powerful enough to deal some serious damage to a zombie skull.

I don't think Krav Maga was in that documentary, but Ninjutsu had Dim-Mak which made it the single most destructive martial art. However, that wouldn't do a damn thing to a zed.

Most of the kicks for long range in the TKD arsenal are really flashy, but hard to do, and very ineffective.

I know about those knees, I caught one last week that put me on the ground, my instructor was trying to demonstrate something and went a little bit too fast and hit me. I've been hit with baseball bats and that knee was still the most painful thing I've ever felt.

Muay Thai's focus isn't on the elbows and knees, it's called 'The Science of the Eight Limbs' because of the use of eight points of impact, our fists, elbows, knees and shins. We strike with whatever we need to strike with when we need to strike. The art itself came from two style, Muay Boran and Krabi Krabong, Muay Boran means ancient boxing and is a generic term much like kung fu. Krabi Krabong is a weapons based art, utilizing swords as well as the eight limbs principle.

TKD, contrary to what they like to tell people is a post-reformation art, much like judo and aikido, it comes from two martial arts as well, Taekkyon and Karate. When the korean people were reforming after the Korean war, the government wanted them to have a martial art, but something 'softer' than the original battlefield arts. An old practitioner of Taekkyon and a karate master took bits of things from each other and taekwondo was born. The Pinan forms of Karate are also that way. If you know where to look, and you know some stuff about the Ryukyuan people you can see where the changes were made, if you know the Heian forms as well.

One that's often overlooked when it comes to these kinds of discussions is Kempo. It's also kind of born from another art, when chinese monks were in Japan they taught mountain farmers and monks their chinese boxing and the Japanese adapted that.

If you're really looking into a practical art, go for Kempo, Krav Maga, or if you're willing to invest a lot of time, Muay Thai.

[SWAT Zombie]

ryukyu kempo is one of the best i've personally come across. i trained at a school that practiced mainly kempo with some jujitsu and philipino stick fighting. i was impressed with this school's realistic training and effective techniques. you don't have to be strong or athletic to do the techniques (but it never hurts to be fit). it is especially good for women. other schools i'd been to that required a certain amount of physicality to pull off the techniques the women often struggled with it. i'm a big guy and my instructor at that school had no trouble using what he taught on me but he was quite a powerfully built guy. smaller men and women would often struggle to effectively use the techniques on me, no matter how long they'd trained. in fact, one girl was practicing an armlock and was struggling to get a reaction from me. i told her to go harder if she liked but she said she was going as hard as she could and it was actually hurting her to do it. but at ryukyu kempo even the women could effectively apply the techniques we learnt against me. it took alot of hard work for them to get the techniques right, but any effective hand to hand training will take some practice before you get good. it was a great school because of the diversity of techniques on offer for different shaped and sized people.
just a side note, kempo actually evolved from the chinese styles in Okinawa, the Japanese actually got Karate from the Okinawans. ryukyu kempo is their term for Okinawan kungfu as kempo is another word for kungfu and ryukyu refers to the Ryukyu islands of which Okinawa is one. also the original moves in kempo were short punches and kicks that targeted pressure points. the okinawans only taught the japanese their kata but not the true applications of the moves, so because they didn't learn the proper pressure point applications of the kicks, punches and grapples, they developed the extended punches and long thrusting kicks because without knowing where to place these strikes the short, fast moves were not effective enough. and alot of the moves which the japanese interpreted as blocks were in fact grappling moves. the fist being drawn back to the hip during a punch or "block" in karate is actually a grappling move where you are pulling the opponent into you as you strike, increasing the impact of the move.
If you're really looking into a practical art, go for Kempo, Krav Maga, or if you're willing to invest a lot of time, Muay Thai.

i'd agree whole heartedly with that. :drinking:

[Noc]

I've done both TKD and boxing, and I'm currently doing Muay Thai, and Muay Thai is alot more streamlined and effective than TKD, the boxing aspect of it is about the same, but Muay thai's kicks are far more powerful than TKD's kicks. And we learn alot of the same boxing drills as regular boxing.

Yeah I just done a little TKD and didn't really care for it. It neglects the hands, and like you said the kicks aren't as practical as they are in Muay Thai.

Although I think boxing develops better hands than Muay Thai, just because 100% of boxing is focused on the hands.

[Nopkar]

I guess Muay Thai would work really really well. I have a little experience in wrestling (brothers a navy seal >.>) and so I've learned that a persons head is super maneuverable...with that said, grab a handful of zed hair, yank, pull whatever you need to do, get it on its stomach, put that knee to the back of the neck and slam it down, zed ded eh?

I'm voting for the quick, dirty and down right personal for my zedjitsu. it might not be that SMART but by damn if it's a must, you might as well right?

*edit* quick, very rounded math: It could take anywhere from 16-873N to crush a skull right? (yes this is a HUGE gap, but the skull isn't uniform now is it?) a smaller person, 160lbs or so, has over 1600N falling just a foot...the knee drop, perfect ^.^ I'm sure with me being a pretty hefty guy I could deliver that much with my elbow to a temple or even the base of the skull.

[kiltedninja]

Precision is key with elbows. And a temple shot isn't always a guarantee, I've hit people in the temple with an elbow and it's not even a guaranteed knockout. I can take shots to my temple and still come back swinging.

To Noc:
I did about 6 months of boxing, and it gives me a big advantage over the other people in my gym.

[SWAT Zombie]

boxing may be fairly limited as a fighting style by itself but it makes a very good supplement when training in multiple styles. i've been on the business end of a series of thunderous punches when training with someone from a boxing background. also you might find alot of boxings training drills have been incorporated into other styles of fighting and it is excellent for cardiovascular improvement. its also relatively simple to learn so its great for someone who wants to learn some quick fighting moves. it may only concentrate on the torso and head by itself but combined with leg and grappling training it can be devastating. the other thing about boxing is how hard the average boxer is trained. i've seen some ridiculously soft training methods from some so called martial arts schools i've looked at, and alot of schools do way too much non contact training. but boxing gyms don't seem to muck about from what i've seen and heard. if you wanna box, be prepared for some pain. if you last it will harden you up pretty quick smart and at the very least you'll be in some pretty damn good shape to handle yourself amongst zombies, even if its just having the physical stamina to run like hell.

[kiltedninja]

That's about the size of it for boxing. I don't expect to be breaking bones with my punches(A jaw maybe, but nothing life threatening), I'd use H2H only if it was an absolute must, and I'd likely be doing it to run away.

[angekfire]

i trained at a school that practiced mainly kempo with some jujitsu and philipino stick fighting.

Eskrima? I want to actually study some of that. I am doing a bit of chinese stick fighting with my twin chinese broadsword training. They use many of the same movements & techniques.

And I have to wholeheartedly agree that TKD is largely useless in practicality. As a kid, it was good because it gave me a good mindset to learn other martial arts quickly.

Boxing is limiting, definitely, but there is also kickboxing if you want to branch out. It definitely makes for a good supplement though, even if just for the conditioning.

[Onslaught]

I guess Muay Thai would work really really well. I have a little experience in wrestling (brothers a navy seal >.>) and so I've learned that a persons head is super maneuverable...with that said, grab a handful of zed hair, yank, pull whatever you need to do, get it on its stomach, put that knee to the back of the neck and slam it down, zed ded eh?

I'm voting for the quick, dirty and down right personal for my zedjitsu. it might not be that SMART but by damn if it's a must, you might as well right?

*edit* quick, very rounded math: It could take anywhere from 16-873N to crush a skull right? (yes this is a HUGE gap, but the skull isn't uniform now is it?) a smaller person, 160lbs or so, has over 1600N falling just a foot...the knee drop, perfect ^.^ I'm sure with me being a pretty hefty guy I could deliver that much with my elbow to a temple or even the base of the skull.

One problem I see with attempting to break zombie bones with your body is the risk of a compound fracture on their part, and infection on your part.

I have a quick question. When I was wrestling I learned very quickly that the pelvis is the source of all movement. Yes, where the head goes, the body must eventually follow, but if you control a man's hips, he isn't going anywhere. And a zombie's head is where the bitey parts are. So, if you were in a hand to hand survival/defense situation against a lone zombie, (let's say you've taken out six of his mates and your revolver is empty) would it be a better bet to kick to the chest or the pelvis? The intent is to put him on the ground quickly. (Let's say you don't want to get tangled in his arms and we're disregarding the knee as a target, just for the challenge of it.)

[SWAT Zombie]

i think bruce lee's philosophy of do whats effective and discard what isn't applies. why go to the chest or pelvis when a kick to the knee is quicker, takes less effort and will take away a major support base from your opponent. if you try to make any fight more challenging, against a zombie, a cage fighter, a drunken pub yobbo or even a 90 pound weakling (he may look weak, but who knows what he's really capable of), you're looking for trouble. mucking about in a fight will get you hurt or worse.
ok, now that i'm done preaching :) i'd say if you can smash the pelvis it will likely be more effective at putting them to the ground and keeping them there. since breaking ribs or damaging internal organs isn't really gonna effect a zombie, damaging them structurally would work better and a smashed hip will make it harder to hold up the rest of the body. also a kick to the chest, even if you do damage may not keep them down. i guess tho it depends on how much damage you do. this has all really been guess work for me because my personal style of fighting has always been to keep kicks low. the higher the kick the more energy and time it takes and the more unstable your balance becomes (another pro for targeting the hip as opposed to the chest). also if someone catches your leg they can put you down quite easily. if they catch your arm you have a better chance of escaping and haven't lost your support base.
but for an untrained person who may not have the accuracy or power to break bones, i think a solid boot to the chest or gut might be better to knock them down or even just away from you.

[Onslaught]

i think bruce lee's philosophy of do whats effective and discard what isn't applies. why go to the chest or pelvis when a kick to the knee is quicker, takes less effort and will take away a major support base from your opponent. if you try to make any fight more challenging, against a zombie, a cage fighter, a drunken pub yobbo or even a 90 pound weakling (he may look weak, but who knows what he's really capable of), you're looking for trouble. mucking about in a fight will get you hurt or worse.
ok, now that i'm done preaching :) i'd say if you can smash the pelvis it will likely be more effective at putting them to the ground and keeping them there. since breaking ribs or damaging internal organs isn't really gonna effect a zombie, damaging them structurally would work better and a smashed hip will make it harder to hold up the rest of the body. also a kick to the chest, even if you do damage may not keep them down. i guess tho it depends on how much damage you do. this has all really been guess work for me because my personal style of fighting has always been to keep kicks low. the higher the kick the more energy and time it takes and the more unstable your balance becomes (another pro for targeting the hip as opposed to the chest). also if someone catches your leg they can put you down quite easily. if they catch your arm you have a better chance of escaping and haven't lost your support base.
but for an untrained person who may not have the accuracy or power to break bones, i think a solid boot to the chest or gut might be better to knock them down or even just away from you.

The challenge comment was for the sake of argument, not intended as a way to make an actual encounter more challenging. I just didn't want 9000 replies of, "kick the knee".

I'm also not concerned with doing structural damage with a kick. I'm really more interested in whether or not people think that kicking the pelvis, even though it's lower and therefore takes away some of the leverage, might be a better alternative to a sternum kick. The zombie is trying to maintain balance by keeping it's shoulders above it's hips above it's feet. The more you mess with that alignment, the less balanced the zombie becomes. A kick to the chest would seem to have the most effect because that is the level furthest from the ground and therefore you have leverage working on your side. But I wonder what happens when you move the middle section instead. Will the zombie fold in half, bringing it's head toward you, or will the legs and shoulders follow suit and be forced backward?

[SWAT Zombie]

i think you're right. if you're just talking about a knockdown then i'd say a kick to the chest would be better. i think a pelvis/midsection kick might not stop the zombies forward momentum as much, but i do think it would cause the head to come forward and potentially be in a position for you to attack. but it would also create a greater bite hazard as well. so for a straight knockdown, chest, but to set it up for a quick head smash, pelvis.
the other thing tho about a pelvis kick, because it might cause the torso to fold forward it could allow the zombie to use its hands to stabilise itself, allowing it to recover quickly. a chest kick would (hopefully) cause it to fall on its back and take it longer to recover. so i guess both have their pros and cons. really just depends on what you plan to do after you've knocked it down

[J Dub]

looks like some have a grasp on self defense, good job:)

but as to the op. any technique that would keep the zeds from grasping or holding you would be preferable to grappling styles.

one bite or scratch and you're fooked. aerial styles would imo be more in keeping them at a distance, judo or jujitsu just offers too many opportunity's for a bad outcome whether it be from bite, scratch or spit/fluids.

the number one priority on zed day would be self defense and nothing is better than a hand full of dynamite (i'm talking 1911 in .45acp naturally) :evil:

[mattifikation]

You could kick it in the hips from the side, and it wouldn't double forward to bite you. Honestly though, 9,000 swipes to the knees is probably the safest bet. :lol:

[SWAT Zombie]

you're right. that would have the advantage of knocking them off course and possibly still putting them in a position where you may be able to go for the head. it would be harder to generate the same sort of power you'd need with a kick like that but that's what training and exercise are good for. training on a heavy bag with someone holding it on one side would probably help develop the power you'd need to pull that off.

[mattifikation]

In TKD, there were actually several kicks that would do the job and have enough power to knock an uncoordinated zombie off balance. Of course, the spinny-flashing-twirl-around-breakdance-in-the-air-jackie-chan kicks are not those kicks.

[kiltedninja]

In TKD, there were actually several kicks that would do the job and have enough power to knock an uncoordinated zombie off balance. Of course, the spinny-flashing-twirl-around-breakdance-in-the-air-jackie-chan kicks are not those kicks.

Yeah, the round house, the side kick, push kick, and if you have the accuracy for it, a back kick. But most people won't have the speed and accuracy for those kicks.

TKD has it's merits if used properly, I dunno if I've said it before, but I do believe that. The problem is that 90% of people don't know how to do it well.

[poke2000]

I give zed a standard boot to the head. Actually anything to the head that causes massive destructive brain trauma. If anything else Id feed him a corrupted politician.:evil:

[kiltedninja]

I've been given boots to the head, and it didn't cause massive brain trauma, or even any physical damage really.

[Shufflef00t]

I'm kicking low. One well placed stomp to the knee should blow it out, allowing more then enough time to tear the head of if thats what you want to do.

[mattifikation]

Tear the head off?

Torn a lot of heads off, have you?

[Shufflef00t]

Tear the head off?

Torn a lot of heads off, have you?

Come to think of it, no.

I was Just saying, a crippled Z is at your mercy really.

[angekfire]

Instead of tearing off a head, a boot to the neck would likely cause more damage. Ideally snap the spine so the body can't receive signals and respond.

[Findecan]

The darned thing about zombies is that anything which involves being in physical contact with them runs the risk of infection. In fact, if you played your cards right, you should NEVER be in a situation where you are alone and surrounded by a dozen zeds in extremely close quarters.

Muay Thai is one of the best striking arts around, but punching or elbows are a great way to get infected if you cut yourself on a zombie's face or teeth. The zombie's face will be full of rotting, infected flesh, so what's stopping the infection from entering your body? I wouldn't do it unless I had protective clothing on. I'd rather use knee-stomps or side-kicks. If I had a good pair of thick leather gloves, I'd just use an old-fashioned chin jab. Just shove it by the chin and slam its head all the way to the ground, which requires little force.

Grappling with zombies is equally risky. Again, any cuts sustained during a tussle will spell doom for the grappler.

I guess the proper thing to do before going out hunting or defending your keep would be to "suit -up" before even picking up a rifle.

[Shufflef00t]

I'd stomp th skull out entirely. Safer that way.

[kiltedninja]

Good tactic, but how are you going to get the head from head level to stomping level?

[Shufflef00t]

The aforementioned kick to the knee. A blown knee would surely drop a zed to his back.

[kiltedninja]

With your steel capped Docs, for sure.

[Shufflef00t]

Of course. Unless you think that idea is no good. I mean, I'm going to be so slow and uncomfortable due to my boots, that there's no possible way I'd be able to kick zed twice right?

[kiltedninja]

No, if you wanna wear boots, that's your choice, I'm not gonna wear mine though.

[Faran Brigo]

I honestly doubt strikes or chokes would be of any use whatsoever against a walking corpse that feels no pain and has to have its brain destroyed to "die". I practice jiujitsu and I think it would be moderately effective, I mean, a lot of it wouldn't be effective because a zombie won't even notice broken limbs, so the only effective elements would be the takedowns and the chokes (modified to break the neck). You can take on more than one at the same time easy, not as easy as krav maga, but still possible.

For me the part that makes jujitsu shine over other striking arts mentioned here has to be the fact that you can do this for hours and not get tired, even if you're not in good shape, or injured.

[kiltedninja]

Well you do get tired, but it's still pretty easy to roll when you're tired.

[SWAT Zombie]

i think the real value of martial arts against zombies would be when you are caught by surprise. of course it would be silly to engage something as infectious as a zombie (or anything else for that matter, infectious or not) unarmed if you can either escape or use a weapon. but if, for example, you're attention is elsewhere or you just have a lapse in focus, which can happen to even the best of us, and you feel yourself grabbed or attacked from behind, something like jujitsu would be good for responding quickly to that attack and preventing your assailant from taking you down. and if you have good enough technique and training/experience you could prevent them from biting, because people bite too so thats something you need to be mindful of in normal defense situations. and imo pain is only one aspect of a good technique. and sometimes pain can work against you. people react instinctively to pain and they might automatically try to escape whats causing the pain, making it harder to accomplish the move. the ideal technique is one where you neutralise the threat, without them knowing how or why they are down. also people can be resistant to pain, like someone who was heavily drugged up. so imo alot of emphasis on causing pain isn't something that you should focus on in self defense training. not that it has no value, just that it has its limits, especially with a zombie.
leverage and using the bodies structural weaknesses against your attacker are also very important in self defense. a zombie would have the same physical structure, ie muscular and skeletal structure, and would be subject to the same physical strengths and weaknesses as the living. attacking and manipulating joints would be effective at taking them down. not to restrain them like some grappling schools might teach, but take down where you can either escape or finish them off. and i think strikes would work against zombies if you are striking at weak structural points, not to cause pain but to cause damage that puts them down or in a position where you can finish them.
but i think i've said this before, or at least something like it, the only technique that will always work is the one practiced over and over and over again. take a look at kiltedninjas signature, that quote from Bruce Lee says it all.

[kiltedninja]

My favorite and one of the most used kicks in my arsenal is my push kick, which is a damn good kick for combat with zombies. push them away until you can escape or draw your weapon.

[angekfire]

Push kicks & side-kicks to the torso can be very effective to gain distance.

[kiltedninja]

I never really liked the side kick, to get real power you have to step into it, and that never seemed practical to me.

[unnamedbaby77]

I am FAR to lazy to search but it seems Aikido would be a great art for zombies for a few different reasons :

its very user friendly and not very taxing.

it focuses on defense rather than attack which is favorable against zombies.

it trains you to move(or throw) a LOT of bodies far away from you with minimal effort.

zombies don't have the brain power to resist the trained exploitation of personal physics and balance that Aikido teaches you.

it teaches you ways to deal with people trying to grab and hold you down even dozens of people .

granted you wont be disabling any ZEDs but you can get them away from you and clear a path with relative ease

a combo of aikido parkour and JKD shold be a pretty useful jutsu for zombie day

[kiltedninja]

I liked aikido, but it's an art that I only saw practical use for at the later stages.

My combination of martial arts is Muay Thai, Lameco Escrima, Brazillian Jujitsu, and Parkour. A little boxing is thrown in the mix too, but that's what I'm training in right now.

[JakAttak]

crav magah (excuse me if i butchered the spelling)seems excellent all throws and grapples, but any style that gets a Z on it's back long enough to pull out a weapon seems fine by me.

[kiltedninja]

Krav Maga has a lot of striking actually.

I think that the best style in my arsenal for actually dispatching Zack is the Escrima.

[unnamedbaby77]

I am going to say mine is either the sap or the dan bong(short stick on six or so inches of cord)they have very very brutal applications and could both liquify a brain with relative ease

[kiltedninja]

I am going to say mine is either the sap or the dan bong(short stick on six or so inches of cord)they have very very brutal applications and could both liquify a brain with relative ease

That basically sounds like nunchucks, and those couldn't liquify brains. I doubt if they could even crack a skull with a single blow.

That or like a simple billy club. If I'm going with blunt objects, I'm going with my homemade krabi/bokken, my baseball bat, or an ASP.

[Faran Brigo]

I liked aikido, but it's an art that I only saw practical use for at the later stages.

My combination of martial arts is Muay Thai, Lameco Escrima, Brazillian Jujitsu, and Parkour. A little boxing is thrown in the mix too, but that's what I'm training in right now.

I gotta disagree, I've seen some Aikido and I think in most cases you'd be left holding a bloody stump instead of tossing the zombie far away from you. Unless I've misunderstood the technique (and it happens often since I'll confess, I'm not very good at hth), it usually applies a lot of force to nerve centers (pointless on a zombie) or it leverages the body in unusual, uncomfortable ways that induce pain and serious injury, but in this case you could probably try a projection and end up holding a zed's broken hand with the rest of the body still lunging at you for a bite. Brazilian Jujitsu and Wally Jay's school of jujitsu still suffer from this, but to a lesser extent due to the influence of judo technique.

[kiltedninja]

Well I suppose, since Aikido is a style of Jujitsu, much like Judo is.

My primary concern with using an unarmed style is making a mistake. As such I'd avoid getting close as much as possible.

[SWAT Zombie]

Wally Jay's jujitsu doesn't rely solely on pressure points or inducing pain. pain is just part of it. it attacks the bodies structural weaknesses and takes control of the opponent using those weaknesses. pain is just one aspect of the technique that is used. zombies not feeling pain will make it more difficult to pull off the move but if practiced enough the person doing it should still be able to manage it seeing as the structural weaknesses should be the same as ours. it uses locks and sweeps as well and tbh if an arm is weakened enough that a jujitsu or aikido move rips it off i wouldn't think there'd be enough strength to do much damage anyway. but besides that, any martial art worth doing always has other options. not every move will be as effective against every opponent you face. i'm very large and what works on me may not be as effective on someone smaller, and vice versa. you always have to adapt to the situation, no two attackers are alike. and in a ZPAW i'd imagine that an experienced martial artist would consider the differences between a zombie and a human and act accordingly.
just so you know Wally Jay's (or Small Circle) Jujitsu was a part of the school i trained at when i lived in Melbourne, along with Ryukyu Kempo and Escrima.

[SWAT Zombie]

Well I suppose, since Aikido is a style of Jujitsu, much like Judo is.

My primary concern with using an unarmed style is making a mistake. As such I'd avoid getting close as much as possible.

Aikido's original name was Aikijujitsu and Judo is just a watered down sports version of jujitsu that focuses on throws more than locks and sweeps. i think Aikido is a less-than-lethal version of Aikijujitsu, likewise Judo is with Jujitsu. also making a mistake is a reality in any situation. if you have firearms or a melee weapon but choose to walk around and kungfu the zombies, that would be a mistake, but i think martial arts will be useful for when you're snuck up on or just find yourself in a situation where you are trapped and have no weapons. the start of a ZPAW might catch people by surprise and thats when you'll need to be able to fight unarmed until you can get to your weapons. of course thats unless you eat, sleep and shit with them

[kiltedninja]

Hmm, I suppose you're right. That does give some of us a slight(very slight) advantage over others.

[mattifikation]

When I look up Aikido videos, I see a lot of stupid pants. What's with the stupid pants? If I get back into martial arts, I want to take a class where the uniform is "comfortable exercise clothing," or better yet... "street clothes."

[SWAT Zombie]

Hmm, I suppose you're right. That does give some of us a slight(very slight) advantage over others.

you should have more faith in how effective martial arts could be in a ZPAW. again, i don't mean thinking you're invincible or anything like that, but a zombie would be about as dangerous, maybe a bit more dangerous, than a drugged up psycho who just charges you and wants to tear your throat out. there are techniques to deal with that sort of thing. someone who's high on certain types of drugs may have increased strength and immunity to pain so the techniques to deal with them i think would be ones you could use against zombies, even if just to give you time to escape or get hold of a weapon. i get the whole risk of infection thing but, again, you only use it when you have to, just like any life threatening situation.

When I look up Aikido videos, I see a lot of stupid pants. What's with the stupid pants? If I get back into martial arts, I want to take a class where the uniform is "comfortable exercise clothing," or better yet... "street clothes."

i agree. i think people should train in street clothes. i think alot of the funny clothes martial artists wear are just what was worn by the culture that developed the style as well as at the time the styles were developed. those big black billowy pants in Aikido would probably be what samurai used to wear

[Kissaki]

When I look up Aikido videos, I see a lot of stupid pants. What's with the stupid pants? If I get back into martial arts, I want to take a class where the uniform is "comfortable exercise clothing," or better yet... "street clothes."

The stupid pants are called Hakama. This is the ordinary pant in japan of about 100 to 150 years ago. Even nowadays these trousers are worn. Especially by shinto priests and by members of traditional families on somekind of holidays.
The hakama became as it is over many years. Its intention is to hide the leg. In first place samurai were horsemen and by wearing the hakama it became difficult for the pike men to attack their legs. Furthermore in ground fighting it covers the position of your feet, so that your opponent can not deduce what your attack will be. It is furthermore tied strongly around your hips and helps to keep the upright and correct stance. At the lower back is also some kind of plate integrated, that provides some kind of armor. What you see in karate or judo is just the normal underwear of an japanese person. Many (especially japanese budoka with a high graduation 4-5-th dan upwards) say, that they do not fight against people in underwear, since they are not prepared for the fight. Therefore budoka usually wear an hakama for practice were it is not obstructive like in judo.
Especially in aikido the stance is of importance. Aikido is one of the last martial arts that are officially part of the budo (I just know judo, sumo and kyudo [there might be some more]). It originates from jiu jiutsu in the obvious techniques, but it is mainly about sword fighting. It is made for swordsmen against swordsmen, armed and unarmed. So mainly an unarmed against an armed opponent with sword or spear (naginata). Therefore it looks complicated and not so straight in its movements, but when you are attacked with a sword you know why you should do it in that fashion. So a lot of attention is paid on the position and movement of the body in order to not get hit, more then two have a brutal strike or throw. This is the main contrast to judo or jiu jiutsu, where you might see the same technique a lot more straight forward. But can you apply it when the opponent carries a knife, sword or spear?
Aikido is clearly an efficient and widespread martial art. But it is very difficult to master, because of the many different attempts and situation a single technique can be applied. Probably it was years ago what Krav Maga is today. A modern martial art developed for the actual needs in battle. In earlier years every student started with the spear and was keen on defend against sword. Nowadays more often the defense against the knife is taught and the defense against the majority of opponents. Spear and sword defense are taught nowadays often to advanced students or in order to explain, why things are done like that and not in a simpler fashion. Martial Arts underlies always an evolution towards actual needs and tries to keep up the knowledge of the past. Therefore there are many traditions, that often seem to be strange for outstanding persons.
But as I wrote there is also some kind of evolution, so will also be able to find street aikido (check the tube)!
Actually, as long as you do not want to fight armed zeds, there are martial arts that will provide results faster!

Since Zeds have bones as well joint locks and throws will not forfeit efficiency!!

[Bob]

I always wondered about those pants.

[Kissaki]

I am not sure about the best Martial Art training for Zombie-defense. As I wrote and some others before me joint-locks and throws will be effective. But I know no Martial Art, where the attackers primary attack is the bites.

Does somebody?

I also wonder how to defend (without weapons) against infected animals.

[kiltedninja]

I got attacked by a dog last week, and a good solid punch to the head deterred it. Infected, I think it's a matter of manipulation of joints. I've flipped dogs on their back by lifting from under their neck. Dogs don't like me.

[Kissaki]

Same to me! I am a jogger dogs hunting me happened quite a few times. Makes me at least faster. Dogs seam to lime chasing everything with a little more speed. Therefore I usually carry a knife or go to the gym. Luckily I did not need to use it. A kick was up to now sufficient. But with big dogs? I do not know?

[kiltedninja]

Big dogs jump for your throat, bring your hand or arm up under their head and push up, you'll put it on it's back. It's going to get back up, when it does, punch it. Hard.

[Kissaki]

That is actually what I am thinking of. Let it take my left arm and with the right hand I draw my knife and finish it off. But I heard that when a big dog like doberman/rottweiler bites your arm it would be so painfull, that one is unable to move or do anything else. It would probably even bite through or rip the muscle from the bone. And I am not so sure if 50 kg muscles jumping on me might not bring me on my back?
But good to see some agreement!!

[mattifikation]

I do a lot of walking, and dog attacks are something I worry about at night. Where I work, we aren't allowed to have anything that counts as a weapon so I often walk home over a mile in the dark by myself. I also worry about drunk drivers, skunks, and punk teenagers looking for a fight.

At least it's a peaceful area and the chances of an actual mugging or assault are very slim. You'll notice my major concerns all come from being worried about other people's irresponsibility with their cars, dogs, and parenting skills.

Now I'm rambling. My point was, I hate when I have to walk the long way home after a long day at work because some asshole is letting their huge dog roam the streets at night.

[unnamedbaby77]

I have a drug-house next door and have had MANY confrontations with their attack dogs, and what I have found is that running or breaking eye contact sets them in motion faster than anything.
The last time I ended up putting a couple slugs in the ground at a pit bulls feet(not wanting to ice the poor misled dog) and it caused him only to charge all the faster ...a swift kick ended the fight but since then I have decided to shoot first and kick later...I like my throat where it is and that last one was to close for comfort...

[mattifikation]

I love dogs, but if a dog has been trained by some scum sucking drug dealer to be a vicious attack dog then there is really no hope for it. It's only a matter of time before a dog like that hurts or kills a human being, and I'm convinced that nearly a full one percent of humans don't deserve to be ripped apart by an animal.

Plus, if it looks like it's going to be me or the dog, then I'd probably be on my own side.

[Bob]

Dogs?
Shoot at Bobs dogs and they will be the least of your worries.
You better be wearing bullet proof goggles.

My dogs are a female Doberman and a male hybrid (Great Mastiff or Daniff depending on who you talk to an intentional cross between mastiff and great dane).
The male is still a puppy and weighs 137 pounds.

Take it from me in the ZPAW after all that is what we are discussing right?
You will die from a dog bite unless it is foo foo biting your boot.
Max or Molly are going to savage you and you will die from infection.

Dogs tend to be very territorial and should NEVER FRACKING BE TEASED.
You need to leave those dogs alone or you will regret it.
If those dogs are not behind a fence you need to call animal control.
If they are you need to leave them alone.


Random thoughts on dogs.

Here is the thing about dogs, they don't bite you and then back off to wait and see what happens.
They are going to try and tear big chunks out of you.
A full sized dog is going to put you on the ground and ruin your day.
Protect your face and neck.

You will read all kinds of weird shirt on the internet about how to deal with dog attacks but most of it is just that, shirt.
A large dog is going to hurt you, if you are prepared you may win but you will wish you had not gotten out of bed that day.
Dog bites are hell to heal.
Never get in between two fighting dogs get the hose.
I can show my scars can you?

Punching a dog in the head is going to hurt your hand and make him mad.
Punching him unless you are Mike Tyson is going to make matters worse.
It will put your wrist and forearm with all the close to the surface vessels close to his teeth.
Do you think you are that fast?
A kick?
I guess it will depend on the dog and how strong you actually are.

Do no try to run, he is faster than you.
He can accelerate faster than you can on a bike.
He may be smarter than you.

Dogs have short attention spans, use that to your advantage.
If he is barking try to stay still and wait it out then slowly back away.
You can use eye contact and lean or slowly move toward him but make sure he has a place to go.
This may work with a well domesticated dog but in the ZPAW it will probably buy you a heck of a bite.
Do not corner or make him feel cornered.

A dog with his held up or down is not in a aggressive posture.
His barking may be saying come play with me, don't freak.
If his head is level be aware.
If his hackles are up be aware.
If a dog is coming toward you in a bouncing sort of run he probably wants to play, don't freak.
If a dog is running with determination directly at you climb a tree.

You will not out run a dog, no not even you.
If you throw a rock it better be as big as your head and off the roof of your house.

[kiltedninja]

Dogs?
Shoot at Bobs dogs and they will be the least of your worries.
You better be wearing bullet proof goggles.

Here is the thing about dogs, they don't bite you and then back off to wait and see what happens.
They are going to try and tear big chunks out of you.
A full sized dog is going to put you on the ground and ruin your day.
Protect your face and neck.

You will read all kinds of weird shirt on the internet about how to deal with dog attacks but most of it is just that, shirt.
A large dog is going to hurt you, if you are prepared you may win but you will wish you had not gotten out of bed that day.
Dog bites are hell to heal.
Never get in between two fighting dogs get the hose.
I can show my scars can you?

Punching a dog in the head is going to hurt your hand and make him mad.
Punching him unless you are Mike Tyson is going to make matters worse.
It will put your wrist and forearm with all the close to the surface vessels close to his teeth.
Do you think you are that fast?
A kick?
I guess it will depend on the dog and how strong you actually are.

Do no try to run, he is faster than you.
He can accelerate faster than you can on a bike.
He may be smarter than you.

Dogs have short attention spans, use that to your advantage.
If he is barking try to stay still and wait it out then slowly back away.
You can use eye contact and lean or slowly move toward him but make sure he has a place to go.
This may work with a well domesticated dog but in the ZPAW it will probably buy you a heck of a bite.
Do not corner or make him feel cornered.

A dog with his held up or down is not in a aggressive posture.
His barking may be saying come play with me, don't freak.
If his head is level be aware.
If his hackles are up be aware.
If a dog is coming toward you in a bouncing sort of run he probably wants to play, don't freak.
If a dog is running with determination directly at you climb a tree.

You will not out run a dog, no not even you.
If you throw a rock it better be as big as your head and off the roof of your house.

I can show you my scars.

I'm not talking about putting my arm in it's mouth. That's just asking for a trip to the hospital. I'm talking about pushing it's head up or over. I'm not putting anything I have near an angry dogs mouth.

The dogs I've punched aren't the biggest dogs I've scrapped with. Yes, scrap is the appropriate term too, I've come out of it bloody on 9/10 occasions. Those nails aren't just so you can hear them coming on your wood floor.

Big dogs are one of the reasons I wear boots. I can kick hard enough to deter the dogs in my neighborhood. I don't know about yours though Bob, hopefully I don't have to find out.

I know quite a bit about dog psychology, I love dogs. I also respect and fear the bigger breeds. For good reason.

[SWAT Zombie]

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8012/dogcheezburger.jpg

[kiltedninja]

Pits are cute, but I've met meaner dogs before.

[Kissaki]

... If he is barking try to stay still and wait it out then slowly back away. ...

That saved my ass a few times. I did it just instinctively. When I approached, it made the dog significantly more aggressive. When I was walking slowly backwards and was behind a certain distance the dog usually did not stare anymore and was looking for his master (I interpret this looking around like this, since he was not looking for me anymore to what else ...).

I always try not to pick up eye contact at all. I just ignore the dog and be aware. I look at back or shoulder so that I still see what the next step might be. I had the impression that the dog then also stayed more relaxed.

A kick works only for small to middle sized dogs. It does not need to be to strong to make the dog run back to its master...

But big evil dogs I am also not sure... Carrying a knife gives me at least the feeling of some security.

Bob thanks a lot for your advise! We will remember it when needed.

Dog-psychology will most probably not work on Zed-dogs!

[Bob]

Avoidance is the way to go.

Watch this short video and pay attention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZm037jPNgc&feature=player_embedded#

Then ask yourself what a dog the size of a Great Dane with the bite of a Mastiff leaping on you would be like.

All bull aside this is a big muscular dog.
At 14 weeks he fought an adult Doberman to a standstill.
Remember I said he is a puppy and weighs 137 pounds.

That being said if you did not provoke him or try to hurt his momma he would be ok.
Unless you are the UPS man, I think the dog smells fear and that upsets him.
The Doberman on the other hand is a female so God knows what she might do especially if she thought her family was threatened.


He is more tolerant of strangers than she is but she is a rescue dog so we don't know her full history.

[Kissaki]

Now I am even more scared! Perhaps I should take a bigger knife with me jogging...:roll:

Imagine what a zed-dog might be able too!

@mattifikation: I know this thing with the mean dogs at night. Often the guys with the meanest dogs are outside at night. Thinking or saying: "I did not expect anybody being out here so late." And having (hopefully after you called for them) a really mean machine at a chain around the neck by their side just standing on the two back legs barking the shit out of their brains. And you just think: "Please chain do not break..."

@kiltedninja: I do not want to stick my arm in the dogs mouth, but having seen some dog fights and being by myself in a few. I think they are mainly going for the groins, the throat, the face or the limbs. I think the left arm is a trade-off between serious injury and surviving chance, since you might be able to apply some deadly force with the right arm (at least you own a weapon). But since I saw the movie bob linked I am not so sure anymore. It really seams that they would rip out the whole muscle or a piece of flesh. At least they are all going for the arm...

Of course avoiding getting bitten is the best. Actually for Zed-dogs this all will be redundant. But then I will only leave security geared up.

[Bob]

If dogs can be turned into Zed and they are shamblers it might do-able to take them out.

If they are fast zombies God help us all.
The animals will be more of a threat than the humans.
Fast Zombies don't get tired and run full tilt until they feel like stopping or you stop them.
Zed animals scare me.
Shambler Zed animals also scare me imaging slots of Zed accompanied by packs of animals.
It would be my luck to be attacked by a zombie cow.

[SWAT Zombie]

Where I live I could just imagine masses of zombie kangaroos bounding into town and pouncing on people in the streets. Zombie koalas and possums dropping on their backs out of trees, zombie wombats burrowing underneath us and clawing their way almost iconically from underground and swooping zombie magpies and kookaburras. :scare:

[kiltedninja]

Zombie crows, seagulls, deer and a few coyotes are most of the animals I get to deal with. And people's dogs.

[SWAT Zombie]

Same here on the dogs. Plenty of those. Lots of cats too.
You don't see them much, well almost never really, but we have our fair share of snakes around here as well. Mainly on the outskirts around the farm areas. Can you imagine that? Zombie snakes. Yikes!!!

[kiltedninja]

Cats, how could I possibly forget cats? We have fvcking tons of cats around here.

[mattifikation]

Snakes on a Plane of the Living Dead?

[kiltedninja]

Matt...no. I can see someone doing it though.

[mattifikation]

Will a 2.5 million volt stun gun stop a big, attacking dog?

[Bob]

Matt
Actually the snapping sound is supposed to deter dogs.
If you "hit" a dog with it I would expect the pain to make him bite you harder or more.
But I don't really know for certain.
We need to ask a mailman.
I bet the USPS has a defense against dogs and zombies manual.

[kiltedninja]

"USPS. Whether it be dogs or the zombie apocalypse, you can be damn sure your mail will get to you." :lol:

[Bob]

Neither Rain
Nor Sleet
Nor Zombie Infestation...

[kiltedninja]

If a dog's decided that it's going to bite you then it's gonna try, then I'm going to do whatever I can to stop it biting me.

[unnamedbaby77]

I hope I did not come across as a dog hater...I love em but the one I was referring to was (as I stated) a scumbag drug house- pit bull.


I think my favorite breed are the Rhodesian ridge backs......lion hunters!

[ZackWelder]

I was FEDEX was as reliable as UPS. Damn zombies always preventing the delivery of my parcels!

I daresay any martial arts teaching hold-breaks, grapple escapes, and energy-efficient, fast take downs would be sufficient. Judo, Hapkido and Kenpo Karate are some forms I know of that would be very helpful.

[kiltedninja]

The little bit of judo I did gives me a huge advantage over the other grapplers in my BJJ class, which focuses more on what to do once you get to the ground. The kind of manipulation you can get from arts like judo/jujutsu(japanese, not Brazillian)/aikido/hapkido and whatever other ones I'm missing would be really useful in ZPAW. Escrima teaches a bit of joint manipulation as well, hell I've learned to use my sticks to manipulate people.

As far as best? The one where you don't die. That's the best martial art to use. Even Muay Thai teaches some manipulation, but I wouldn't try and clinch a zombie. I'd break it's knees.

[Bob]

Huck
I didn't get dog hater out of that.


One should not underestimate what a dog bite is going to be like in the ZPAW and even before.

Typically they will require a ton of antibiotics and stitches.

If dogs could hold a gun they would rule the world.
Think Attila the Hun having "Roid Rage".

[kiltedninja]

Yeah, that's what the one in my leg took, and it was a relatively small bite. Only 4 stitches but tons of antibiotics.

[unnamedbaby77]

yeah they and get pretty nasty without protection from infection

[mattifikation]

I got a nip in the arm from my former roommate's dog once. It was accidental, we were playing around. She was a black lab/chow mix. It hurt like a sunny beach, it took weeks to heal even though it wasn't very deep at all, and it left a very odd looking scar. It looks like I have some kind of alien implant in my arm now...

[unnamedbaby77]

I GET TO NAME IT!!!...Doug..I dub thy alien-arm-baby Doug!

[kiltedninja]

It is doug the alien arm baby!

[unnamedbaby77]

my weirdest scar is from a girl I used to ...have...on occasion...she was into hurting people ...I wasn't....hence the past tense ...it looks like a splotch of liquid but made of scar tissue on muh shoulder ...once that crazy wench tried to stab me in bed to...good riddance!!!

[kiltedninja]

Crazy women are...well...crazy.

[ZackWelder]

my weirdest scar is from a girl I used to ...have...on occasion...she was into hurting people ...I wasn't....hence the past tense ...it looks like a splotch of liquid but made of scar tissue on muh shoulder ...once that crazy wench tried to stab me in bed to...good riddance!!!



Yikes man. You sure you weren't f*cking a zombie?

[kiltedninja]

No, the zombie would've tried to bite him not stab him.