Best close combat weapon

[Littlejon126]

roges rite jonnyboy u take ur stick ill take my saw well see who will win

Just because I'm carrying a walking stick to help me carry my gear doesn't mean I am not toting my Ruger P89 and Hornady JHP's in its holster too...:loon: And it's not like you're going to sneak up on me either with that small engine running....:poo:

I don't see how carrying a large walking stick is going to affect my ability to tote a rifle either. If I carry my rifle (any one of them) African-carry (muzzle down, over left shoulder) and my walking stick in my right hand, I think I'd probably be fine. If anything, I might actually have a better quick response as I could use my pole to push a zombie away and draw my sidearm for a quick double tap to CNS. A pole in my hands beats a rifle on my shoulder every day of the week, especially if a Zack pops out right in front of me.

The other advantage is that unlike homelitexl (who's going to run buck naked through the woods holding his chain-gang running and dragging a 5 gallon gas tank behind him) I'm going to be carrying my external frame backpack, tent, sleeping bag, food, ammo, guns, Ka-bar and hunting knife, water, spare clothing, all-weather gear, medical supplies, paracord/rope and my EDC (every day carry) gear - all of which will weighs a considerable amount. That pole will certainly help me remain mobile during my exodus on foot from the city.

Obviously, I'd leave the walking stick at the dugout if I had to bat. If I were actively seeking a fight or expecting a conflict, I'd leave that crap in a secure location and travel light with my rifle ready, but I'm not gonna carry my rifle out in front of me at ready for 6+ hours while on the move.

[J Dub]

lanyards on blades absolutely, and if you worry about it coming back on you, hopefully you never hold a loaded gun :loon:
:lol:


claymore, next best thing to a gun imo.

[kiltedninja]

For close combat, I'd choose the baseball bat or crowbar. Great bludgeoning weapon, can be used to push zeds away. For last resort, I'd use a light hammer. Again, great for bludgeoning and pushing zeds away by chin!

Short, sharp weapons like daggers will just kill you. The blood might spatter onto you, and it might take too long getting the zed off you. The biggest problem with the dagger lies in the human heart.

Let's be realistic, gouging an eye is like cutting the flesh from a fruit; it's a fine motor skill. When the fear kicks in and the heart rate and adrenaline goes through the roof, and with a hulking zed too close for comfort, gouging the eye is an extremely difficult thing to do. You are likely to miss and scrape against the skull. And no, none of us are ninjas anyway, even those who claim to be trained ninjas. Once the fear and adrenaline kicks in, might as well slit your own throat.

A weapon which requires non-specific, simpler motor movements such as bludgeons are your best bet. Even machetes and hatchets might give problems and get stuck, though I do not doubt their destructive force. Katanas are excellent for decapitation, but not in a crammed area.

A katana is good if you know how to cut and care for it, if you want to use a blade, use a machete, they're not gonna get stuck, you're gonna ruin a katana if you don't know how to use it.

[Onslaught]

True, but even with a blade without a means of not dropping it...slippery handle could mean your own hand slides down the blade (see the O.J. trial) in this case you are F'ed as you are infected.

Only if you don't have a guard AND you're stabbing with it. Neither of which really apply with a hacking blade.


I'm not gonna carry my rifle out in front of me at ready for 6+ hours while on the move.

Zombies aren't the only threats in the undead world. Personally, I will keep the rifle ready. If I need to transition, i'll drop it (single point sling) and grab the steyr on my right side.


JDUB. With the slings, it's kind of like tetherball. When you impart force to a knife through a swing, and then you let go of that knife, it's going to want to keep going. But since you tied it to your wrist, it's going to travel in an arc, with the tether being the origin. And when it get's close to completing that arc, it's going to dig into your flesh. And about the loaded guns... I own a Steyr MA1 and you live in Canada.

[Littlejon126]

I tend to try to find as many uses for my gear as possible, which has dictated many of my gear choices. For example, rather than carrying my Romanian GP WASR-10 (which would certainly come along!) I would probably opt for my Yugo SKS or one of my Mosin-Nagants instead because they're much more effective for hunting, not to mention legal for hunting as well - which may not matter post Z-Poc but being an STL County L.E.O. in training, I try to set a good example and follow every law, especially local and state laws.

That's why I like the idea of the machete or large survival knife - good for slashing, chopping and hacking, maybe even stabbing - as opposed to the chainsaw or katana, which are limited to very specific roles and are not versatile at all.

It's also why I think that a walking stick could come in handy for multi-use applications. It would even be easily converted into a spear should ammo become scarce by binding and bracing my kabar to it. If I got stranded or injured, it could be used as a signaling device for auditory SOS signals (by striking something metal) or visually by attaching a chem-light stick to it and waving it back and forth over my head. It could be used as a torch, firewood kindling after waterproofing (as a last resort), used as a support to hold some of my gear up off of the wet ground, or hell even as the center support for a tee-pee type shelter. If there are any avid backpacking-types here on the site, y'all know what I mean about how useful a pole is for crossing a log bridge!

Sure, it's not the "best close combat weapon" as indicated by the thread title, but it's certainly amongst the most versatile of them. Sorry about the wall of text guys, I tend to write like I'm selling a short novel:doh:

[Onslaught]

Littlejon, I definitely get what you're saying. A sturdy stick can be a good thing to have. Heck, I've got more than a few laying around, and I prettymuch never head out into the woods without one. Unless I'm carrying a longarm. Now that I think about it, a telescoping shooting stick would do most of what you're talking about ,and while it could not be used as an impact weapon, it would certainly come in handy. As far as versatile improvised weapons go, Id say that a 4' stick even beats the so-loved crowbar.

But, as far as the "best" close combat weapon goes, (other than the pistol of course), I'm sticking with the falcata. I definitely agree with you on the big knife thing.

Also, what's stopping you from hunting with the wasr? There are 5 rounders available for it. I had one for my SAR-1 before I sold it. I don't know the laws in your area, but in most places magazine restrictions for hunting cap you at 5. Doesn't the SKS have a 10 rnd internal mag? How would you block it? Given those three I'd probably take the mosin too. The AK should be good out to 100yd or so, but depending on your particular wasr, we could be talking 2 MOA or 1 MOPieplate.

[Littlejon126]

Littlejon, I definitely get what you're saying. A sturdy stick can be a good thing to have. Heck, I've got more than a few laying around, and I prettymuch never head out into the woods without one. Unless I'm carrying a longarm. Now that I think about it, a telescoping shooting stick would do most of what you're talking about ,and while it could not be used as an impact weapon, it would certainly come in handy. As far as versatile improvised weapons go, Id say that a 4' stick even beats the so-loved crowbar.

But, as far as the "best" close combat weapon goes, (other than the pistol of course), I'm sticking with the falcata. I definitely agree with you on the big knife thing.

Also, what's stopping you from hunting with the wasr? There are 5 rounders available for it. I had one for my SAR-1 before I sold it. I don't know the laws in your area, but in most places magazine restrictions for hunting cap you at 5. Doesn't the SKS have a 10 rnd internal mag? How would you block it? Given those three I'd probably take the mosin too. The AK should be good out to 100yd or so, but depending on your particular wasr, we could be talking 2 MOA or 1 MOPieplate.

Shooting stick... that's actually not a bad idea. I've tossed that idea around but I don't have any practical exposure to them, nor have I used one before. I'll have to see if one of my buddies have one that I might borrow.

Here in Missouri we can hunt with rifles with up to eleven round capacities (they allow eleven for those who might be running +1 in a ten round rifle) and shotguns limited to three rounds in tube. Many people use the SKS for hunting here, in fact, most of my friends (and my own) first deer were taken with either SKS or lever action 30-30's. For deer (but not other game) you're required to use either SP or JHP ammo, but that's almost a given - hell I don't know why anyone would want to use FMJ on a white tail anyway...?

I've used my Mosin-Nagant M38 sucessfully in the past, and it's overkill for all but the largest white tail where using Wolf Gold 203 Gr. soft points. I saw a good sized buck go ass over tea kettle after getting nailed by a big 203 grain round, like he got hit by an International 9000 series truck. It was spectacular!! My WASR is definitely in the "minute of paper plate" category and not accurate enough to do the job reliably. I'm sure that if I was in a pinch it could do it, but I'd want to be within 75 yards. If it were more accurate I would consider it, but honestly I couldn't use it when my other rifles are more accurate.

I think the falcata would actually serve quite well against zombies. There are so many big knives to choose from that it'd be hard for me to pick one over all others...

[MSGardner]

A two foot piece of galvanized pipe seems like it would be a suitable close combat weapon. Does a scythe count as close combat?

[Darkness]

"A Sickle, yes. A Scythe, no." :)

[mattifikation]

Well I don't know about you, Darkness, but if I was within Scything range of a zombie I would consider myself "close" to it. :lol:

[kiltedninja]

A scythe has an angled blade for cutting grass, look at your lawn mower blades and that's about what a scythe's blade looks like. a Sickle has a straight blade, since it's a weaponised version of the same tool.

[Darkness]

"The Scythe has a straight blade true, but it sits at an awkward angle for fighting......"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythe

"Unless you were refering to The War Scythe..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

"......But the Sickle, has a curved blade, not a straight one."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle


"The Scythe is what the Grim Reeper carries." :)


Well I don't know about you, Darkness, but if I was within Scything range of a zombie I would consider myself "close" to it. :lol:

"Very true. My point was just that it's usually considered a Pole Type Weapon. That's all." ;-) :lol:

[angekfire]

A walking stick (or even a smaller stick) is a great weapon, because it can easily be improvised. Walking through the woods, oh hey, a weapon right there! Very handy. Having a high quality one is obviously better, but if you're stuck and can't get to it for whatever reason, it's easy enought to find one, and it is multi-purpose.

Rattan is good, since it doesn't splinter easily. It's what they use in eskrima (something I want to learn).

[Littlejon126]

A walking stick (or even a smaller stick) is a great weapon, because it can easily be improvised. Walking through the woods, oh hey, a weapon right there! Very handy. Having a high quality one is obviously better, but if you're stuck and can't get to it for whatever reason, it's easy enought to find one, and it is multi-purpose.

Rattan is good, since it doesn't splinter easily. It's what they use in eskrima (something I want to learn).

The SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) also uses rattan for their "swords" - their logic is there are three kinds of sword fighting:
1) Real swords, real fighting, real fatalities!
2) Real swords, fake fighting, no injuries
3) Fake swords, real fighting, fewer injuries.

These guys suit up in armor and heavy duty period-correct helmets (to prevent concussions, fatality and broken bones) and beat the tar out of each other. They also do lots of other Renaissance fair type stuff. I did it for a while b/c this girl I dated was into it, and it was actually a lot of fun, but I felt like such a nerd.... But hey, it's not like this zombie thing is any less nerdy.....?! And this girl was HOTT!!

I suggest to anyone wanting to use a medieval-type weapon to consider joining the SCA. They have redeveloped a period correct European martial art (using legitimate techniques) and if you also study ARMA/HEMA, you will do quite well. Some of these people really get into it.

[angekfire]

I have done SCA sparring once in the past, and the fencing I do is SCA style.

The fencing is far more combat accurate and effective. You are using a real blade with real attacks, however the tip is capped and it isn't sharpened so you aren't going to kill the other person.

SCA armored combat on the other hand is FAR from legit combat. The fighters use sticks, which are weighted far differently than real swords. The methods are entirely different. I have trained in broadblade and we used a different method for training weapons than rattan, and they were far closer to a real balance. The rattan combat has essentially developed into it's own modern sport with little realism, which is why I opted not to continue with it. It was about being efficient with a stick, not what would be efficient with a sword.

Now, I also almost joined a medieval sword guild which trained with live steel long swords and often armor, and it was completely different. Combat usually resulted in using the sword much like a dagger and trying to pierce through the gaps in the armor. They were way too intense for me though, and it was more of a club than a class, and they basically decided it was up to everyone to learn for themselves without real instruction. If I wanted to do that, I could do it on my own without paying a several hundred dollar membership fee yearly.

SCA armored combat is not legit at all. It is legit SCA combat, not legit historical combat re-enactment.

[TheSurvivalist]

I'd have to go with dual Kurki Ghurkas. Or, a small Katana held in one hand, with a Ghurka in the other.

Either way

Complete domination

[kiltedninja]

Rattan splinters like crazy, I've busted two or three sticks quite easily from my Escrima class. Ash or oak wood is a little more rigid.

For thesurvivalist, go with a pair of kukris, because katanas are quite easy to ruin.

[Patrickwontsurvive]

Thats what I would go with myself. I bought a kukri last week. Should be here soon.

[kiltedninja]

I got to play with a friend's kukri the other day and god damn it was fun to just hold it, swing it at shit, and I chopped a piece of wood with it.

[Bob]

Raiders of the Lost Ark
Market scene where girl is kidnapped
Indiana Jones
Revolver
Bang
There went a lifetime of practice with a sword into the ground.

[AZombieAttack]

Raiders of the Lost Ark
Market scene where girl is kidnapped
Indiana Jones
Revolver
Bang
There went a lifetime of practice with a sword into the ground.

That was funny as hell.....:)

[Shufflef00t]

I'm a big fan of the trench spike. There's a baton style weapon, I think they're called tonfa, make one with spiked ends, that gets my vote too.

[kiltedninja]

Raiders of the Lost Ark
Market scene where girl is kidnapped
Indiana Jones
Revolver
Bang
There went a lifetime of practice with a sword into the ground.

Even though I'm a trained fighter, that's what should be done if you have the means to do it.

[Patrickwontsurvive]

Still has nothing to do with this thread.....

[homelitexl]

id take a chainsaw

[unnamedbaby77]

out of the listed items I would chose the machete because they are light and deadly for some long lasting zombie bashing

if I had a choice I would go for a Korean jin gum(sp??) which is a very light very sturdy katana gotta back up with a good combat/survival knife

[kiltedninja]

My biggest thing with swords is whether or not you are trained to use it. Alot of people have training in swinging a machete or hammer or hatchet, but seldom do you have anyone who's trained in a sword. Go with whatever you can use though.

[Shufflef00t]

Do you all think that a spiked police baton, held underhand and long end out, could punch through the skull if thrusted in a forward motion/ punching action?efficient or no? Quick kill?

[unnamedbaby77]

My biggest thing with swords is whether or not you are trained to use it. Alot of people have training in swinging a machete or hammer or hatchet, but seldom do you have anyone who's trained in a sword. Go with whatever you can use though.

agreed .. i have spent a long time tring to convince the mall ninjas that a ninja/ samurai sword is not the best way to go on Z-day.

even with years of training in the basic application of the sword I still would not want one on Z-day ...to much wear on wrist and forearms to little distance between me and the goons,

I have seen pics of a guy who had years and years of quick draw resheathing training who resheathed into his forearm by accident once

spooky...give me a jin gum or a good machete any day

the gerber gator is a good machete btw


check it
http://www.trueswords.com/images/prod/c/gerber_gator_machete_540.jpg

[WillD]

Machete for me ^_^ Easy to swing, Easy to chop :D

[kiltedninja]

I think it's the general consensus that the machete is the best way to go when it comes to Close combat weapons. They're simple, easy to find, and effective.

[mattifikation]

I must be the odd one out. I'd still rather have a bat, a medium length stick, or something else along those lines.

If I'm 2 feet away from a zombie, I don't want it bleeding all over me. Just, no...

[kiltedninja]

You still get bled on from blunt force trauma. It can get pretty bloody.

[Sammo909]

Machetes are easy to find, I picked one up at a car boot sale yesterday for 35 bucks. She's a bit rusted and not too sharp anymore, but there's definite potential here. I'll have to get my brother to sharpen it and show me how to get the rust out but I think she'll do well.

[kiltedninja]

35 bucks is expensive for a machete. She best be worth it.

[angekfire]

If it is just some minor surface rust & discolouration, I think a scotch-brite pad can do the trick.

[unnamedbaby77]

If it is just some minor surface rust & discolouration, I think a scotch-brite pad can do the trick.

if not trey naval jelly and a wire brush

or WD40 with a steel wool pad

[mattifikation]

You still get bled on from blunt force trauma. It can get pretty bloody.

You're still thinking "kill the zombies," and I'm still thinking "Keep them off me so I can get away."

There wouldn't be much trauma or blood if I was just knocking legs out from under shamblers with a bat or pushing them over with a stick.

[kiltedninja]

Yeah, I suppose that changes things a little bit.

[Onslaught]

Definitely a valid point, but what are you going to do with them if you can't get away? Not all fights are in the open, and sometimes the ones you knock down may fall in the path of your intended exit.

Where is everyone planning on keeping their close combat weapon when they're not using it? Not too many shovels/baseball bats come with QD sling swivels.

[mattifikation]

That's why I like the collapsible baton, for storage.

A blunt weapon would be capable of full-on attacking a zombie if I needed it to, but a bladed weapon will never be able to be used in a way that won't draw blood.

[Dark Comic]

Well actually I've heard that the other side of a machete blade is far from sharp. :lol:

[Onslaught]

Well actually I've heard that the other side of a machete blade is far from sharp. :lol:

What he said.

Also, who is to say that zombies will have liquid blood? Sure, the fresh ones will, but it seems that more than a few movies depict mature zombies as being full of sludge.

Also, good idea with the baton. Concentrating all of the force of a swing on that tiny steel ball makes them quite devistating. They're good for joint locks too. I really enjoy the compact package, out of the way until you need it.

With the prevailing opinions being that blades are messy, or messier than bludgeons, I wonder if there would be some sort of test for that kind of thing. It seems to me that hitting a skull and (relatively) intact brain with a bat or other club would cause some rather violent splatter given the ammount of pressure you'd be imparting. Maybe smacking hanging oranges/grapefruits with a bat/machete to compare where the droplet patterns go?

[unnamedbaby77]

Definitely a valid point, but what are you going to do with them if you can't get away? Not all fights are in the open, and sometimes the ones you knock down may fall in the path of your intended exit.

Where is everyone planning on keeping their close combat weapon when they're not using it? Not too many shovels/baseball bats come with QD sling swivels.

good point but a simple length or rope or string makes a decent sling in a pinch....and I hear zombies pinch.

also MOLLE webbing makes spectacular holders for just about anything phallic!

[kiltedninja]

What he said.

Also, who is to say that zombies will have liquid blood? Sure, the fresh ones will, but it seems that more than a few movies depict mature zombies as being full of sludge.

Also, good idea with the baton. Concentrating all of the force of a swing on that tiny steel ball makes them quite devistating. They're good for joint locks too. I really enjoy the compact package, out of the way until you need it.

With the prevailing opinions being that blades are messy, or messier than bludgeons, I wonder if there would be some sort of test for that kind of thing. It seems to me that hitting a skull and (relatively) intact brain with a bat or other club would cause some rather violent splatter given the ammount of pressure you'd be imparting. Maybe smacking hanging oranges/grapefruits with a bat/machete to compare where the droplet patterns go?

They do tests like that man. and a blunt object makes a different pattern than a sharp object.

I'd stick to the sharp thing, I like making less mess. Plus it's one less zombie that I have to deal with in the immediate future.

[mattifikation]

A blunt object only makes a mess if you go for a kill shot. When it comes to zombies, any mess is the same mess. A blade doesn't give you any "no mess at all" option, that's why I don't favor them.

[angekfire]

I'm more concerned about living than having a little blood on me.

[mattifikation]

On Z-Day, that blood might as well be poison.

[rogeneck]

if you want to test some blood splatter then cover a bag full of koolaid in a thin layer of spray foam. poke some holes in the bag with a needle and the swing away. if you get any on your face then your in trouble.

[kiltedninja]

Or you could look it up, the internet probably has some information on blood spatter.

I favor blades because I can kick out knees, or push a zombie over, but I can't cut a leg or arm or head off with my boot heel now can I?

Plus I'm likely to replace my baton and just carry both.

[SWAT Zombie]

if i could choose any hand to hand weapon i think a studded mace would be it. that spiked ball would probably cave in a zombies head quite nicely.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6063/westuddedmace.jpg

there might be a problem with splatter tho. a mace without spikes might be the better alternative. if i had to choose a more accessible weapon (and its likely i would have to) i'd go for a nice sturdy wood chopping axe. you could use the sharp side or bash with the blunt side.
and any weapon that is used to repeatedly strike something will wear down over time. might be good to have several stored at your safe place.

[mattifikation]

I never understood how one is supposed to store those things on their person without smashing a bit or a piece that they hold very dear...

[Dark Comic]

I never understood how one is supposed to store those things on their person without smashing a bit or a piece that they hold very dear...

With a frog .....
http://www.darkknightarmoury.com/c-102-leather-frogs.aspx
..... The head of the mace stay relatively still at your hip. Fear not for your bits and pieces, they can stay safe.

[angekfire]

On Z-Day, that blood might as well be poison.

In which case I would get something to cover my face to prevent it from infecting me. Seems a lot easier than trying to avoid the splatter altogether.

[SWAT Zombie]

With a frog .....
http://www.darkknightarmoury.com/c-102-leather-frogs.aspx
..... The head of the mace stay relatively still at your hip. Fear not for your bits and pieces, they can stay safe.

i like some of the armour on that site too. the leather stuff should be fairly effective against zombies. the arm and neck pieces in particular
http://www.darkknightarmoury.com/c-2-leather-armour.aspx

[homelitexl]

after all this time im still goin with....
,..... Chainsaw

[RyDub]

I'd say a hatchet/axe would probably be best, but using the blunt end of it rather then the sharp end because chances are once you get the sharp end in, you will have a hell of a time getting it out.

[unnamedbaby77]

after all this time im still goin with....
,..... Chainsaw

is this a good time to address the fact that chainsaws make terrible weapons?

speaking from years of experience they have super odd balance and kind of a gyro effect when you swing it, plus it would take all day to get through one body as they are made to cut hard targets

[echo112]

I'm going upon the view that if they get close enough for me to have to use a close combat weapon then there's too many for me to kill any way. but i would definitely use a trench knife for my last few feeble swings before i die.:evil::lol:

[echo112]

is this a good time to address the fact that chainsaws make terrible weapons?

speaking from years of experience they have super odd balance and kind of a gyro effect when you swing it, plus it would take all day to get through one body as they are made to cut hard targets

Don't go there mate... i get the feeling this is a long running debate here.:roll:

[homelitexl]

wanna bet i used 2 run 1 4 a livin til i got layed off and quit

[mattifikation]

I don't think debate is the right word for it.

[DarthJoe8]

is this a good time to address the fact that chainsaws make terrible weapons?


You're new around these parts huh?? :drinking:

[homelitexl]

chainsaws r a good weapon

[angekfire]

I'm going upon the view that if they get close enough for me to have to use a close combat weapon then there's too many for me to kill any way. but i would definitely use a trench knife for my last few feeble swings before i die.:evil::lol:

Well, realistically, lets say you run out of ammo for your gun, and your only weapon left is a knife, but you've made it to your safe-zone, but there happens to be a few zombies wandering around already. Lets say 5, all seperated. You're gunna have to clear them out before you can fortify, and if you only need to deal with 1 at a time, it's doable.

Of course, a slightly longer weapon than a knife is probably optimal, such as a machete or axe. A knife won't extend your reach by enough, IMO you still gotta get too close for comfort. If you could take out a leg then go in close, maybe. But also, I doubt a nife is going to be good enough to decapitate a zed.

A knife is definitely a good tool to have, and better than nothing at all.

chainsaws r a good weapon

Lawlz. As has been mentioned countless times, how are you going to haul around enough gas, and it is heavy to wield.

[kiltedninja]

Angekfire, Unnamedbaby, you're fighting a losing battle, I'm telling you to give up, he's set in his ways.

[Bob]

Thats why it's funny.

The best close combat weapon bar none is a 9mm pistol.
High capacity, low recoil.

Although check this puppy out based on a Glock 17

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6064/52274000.jpg

[homelitexl]

i like that bob

[Onslaught]

modern day sword.

[unnamedbaby77]

I like this one ...SUPER low recoil 45 ACP

http://www.enemyforces.net/firearms/kriss_super_v.jpg

http://media.hamptonroads.com/media/content/pilotonline/2007/10/1012gun360x352.jpg

http://media.hamptonroads.com/media/content/pilotonline/2007/10/1012guna500x325.jpg


or one of these!(in case you are wondering that is a magazine fed 12ga shotgun under that AR there)

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/XM-26-1.jpg

[Darkness]

"This isn't exactly a gun thread, and we do have many fine threads on Guns. Please use them for the Gun Talk, thank you."

[mattifikation]

That Kriss is ridiculous. The mechanics probably do absolutely nothing except provide a few possible points of failure, and the real reason the recoil is reduced is probably because of all that extra weight. It also serves no purpose, in the era of PDW's with armor piercing ammunition and submachinegun sized assault rifles.

[unnamedbaby77]

as was just pointed out this isnt a gun thread. that being said I will not get into the five seven/krinkov debate .

I will however say that when choosing ANY equipment I look at what the different spec ops units around the world use. ... those fellas seem to know their stuff

[kiltedninja]

as was just pointed out this isnt a gun thread. that being said I will not get into the five seven/krinkov debate .

I will however say that when choosing ANY equipment I look at what the different spec ops units around the world use. ... those fellas seem to know their stuff

They use what they're issued like the rest of the military units. Not to mention that a lot of the stuff they do use isn't necessarily available to civilians.

I'd look at the weapons themselves. What are their pros and cons, weight, ergonomics, ease of maintenance, reliability, durability, effectiveness and efficiency, and of course there's always the badass factor.

[unnamedbaby77]

They use what they're issued like the rest of the military units. Not to mention that a lot of the stuff they do use isn't necessarily available to civilians.

trust in me or research if you have to, deployed special forces units do whatever they please with whichever gear they wish in the field.

I'd look at the weapons themselves. What are their pros and cons, weight, ergonomics, ease of maintenance, reliability, durability, effectiveness and efficiency, and of course there's always the badass factor.


which is exactly why I watch spec ops because that is their main agenda when choosing weapons


hence the H&K MK 23 and USP
http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/civ/mark23/mark23.htm'


EDIT: SORRY SORRY SORRY I promise no more gun stuff!:x

[unnamedbaby77]

Hey, I think you got something stuck to your nose there. :-p


is it poo? damn!

and I do agree if i am close enough to have to use my sidearm I have messed up somehow .

I like the assault rifle range for the reason that you can still get close enough to use explosives in a decent amount of time and you aren't waiting 4 seconds from the time you fire to the time the bullet impacts .


P.S. hows this for a CQB weapon: this guy tied to a stick!

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2008/11/62%20Sword%20Piercings.jpg

[Undead Jackal]

Shovel because if you read wwz
In the Kyoto there is a blind man that kills ons of zeds witha spade

[kiltedninja]

I think you're relying too much on the book for your decisions.

I'm going with the machete still, or a hatchet.

[homelitexl]

im going with one of four choices
twin cylinder echo 18" bar
Homelite pro 18" bar
homelitexl 16" bar
Or homelite c-9 60" bar

[Undead Jackal]

I think you're relying too much on the book for your decisions.

I'm going with the machete still, or a hatchet.

without books how can you learn how to fire a weapon, or find a zombies weakspot for that matter

[kiltedninja]

You learn by doing. Non fiction books are good for learning, but not fictional novels.

[unnamedbaby77]

AMEN!

is that why you are called captain obvious?

[homelitexl]

no its because he argues with me

[kiltedninja]

Both actually. And many more reasons.

[Manus]

So I didn't say it like I thought I did, but I meant look for a means of obtaining a good machete. I hear talk that Cold Steel makes a mean ass machete. I'm looking at getting one soon, just as soon as I can get in contact with a friend of mine named spare cash.
A Macheter is great in theory, but you run the risk of lodging it in a a Zed's skull or some other body part. If surrounded, you're not going to have the time to yank it out, which is why a nice blunt club of some type would be effective. One solid smack to the skull and they're down.

[Manus]

Look for a means of getting a machete manus, a hammer, or a louisville slugger. You don't need to be a baseball player to have a bat, alot of people have them. a shovel...I'm not sure how good as a weapon it would be, due to the angled head, and the lack of a real edge, you'd probably fvck it up real quick.

Even a little hatchet or an axe is good.
The shovel would only be a temporary weapon, most likely using the flat edge to deal with any hostiles I may encounter on my journey to about 10 feet from my house, at which point I'd hop in my VW Bus and loot my neighbors homes. (I live in the country, almost a half mile away from the nearest neighbor, so driving would be preferable, especially with all the forestry surrounding my home)

[kiltedninja]

A Macheter is great in theory, but you run the risk of lodging it in a a Zed's skull or some other body part. If surrounded, you're not going to have the time to yank it out, which is why a nice blunt club of some type would be effective. One solid smack to the skull and they're down.

If surrounded you're screwed anyway. What's with everyone thinking machetes are gonna get lodged in a person? Look at people like the Mexican Mafia, Filipinos, Africans, they use the machete as both a tool and a weapon.

I'm using a machete is all I'm saying.

[kyiie]

The only way to kill a zombie is by removing its head.. so in close combat i would be using something like a sword or long blade to remove it cleanly and without much effort. something like a hammer or baseball bat would do damage.. but not kill the zombie and take multiple hits to take down.. so im with the sword or long blade.

[Redneck]

If surrounded you're screwed anyway. What's with everyone thinking machetes are gonna get lodged in a person? Look at people like the Mexican Mafia, Filipinos, Africans, they use the machete as both a tool and a weapon.

I'm using a machete is all I'm saying.

I'm using a shotgun is all I'm sayin. :shotg::zom2:

[homelitexl]

chainsaws mmmmmmmmmmmm.............:drool:

[kiltedninja]

The only way to kill a zombie is by removing its head.. so in close combat i would be using something like a sword or long blade to remove it cleanly and without much effort. something like a hammer or baseball bat would do damage.. but not kill the zombie and take multiple hits to take down.. so im with the sword or long blade.

Machete dude. But Like Matt said, you're not trying to kill every zombie you see, just the ones you can't get by without killing.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Thank god for Thanksgiving break, I'm about to go back home to my babies. I've gotten homesick for my kukris.

[unnamedbaby77]

Thank god for Thanksgiving break, I'm about to go back home to my babies. I've gotten homesick for my kukris.

praise be!

I just dug my cold steel kuk out of my camping gear the other night to fondle

turns out when you stage all your gear you have to unpack it to "play" with it!

[kiltedninja]

You're weird as hell man, I'm not even gonna lie.

[Satariel]

I still believe that a bladed weapon is the best thing in close combat. Being that it's "zombie survival and defense" and not "zombie hunting and killing" thread, the sword is the best choice (if you know how to use one, of course). The reason why I believe this is because you can use a sword to sever arms, and I always thought that an armless zombie is less of a threat than an "armed" one :).
So if you find yourself against a few more zeds than you'd like, you can always try to target their limbs, not just go for kills.

On the other hand, a blunt weapon is more durable, packs more wallop and needs far less maintenance than a sword, but ask yourselves if you could kill a zombie with a single hammer or baseball bat hit to the head, because hits in other parts of the body won't do much. The upside is that you probably need far less training with a blunt object (if at all), and they are usually far more common than swords in this day and age :).
So in the end it boils down to what you are the most proficient and comfortable with, i guess...

But we should probably stop these stupid ideas already and go buy chainsaws. Right homelite ? :P

[Bob]

I tend to lose the focus on threads is this a non-firearm thread?
However you are wrong.
Most of the Nintendo Generation do not have the strength or stamina.

[homelitexl]

i am not a troll i just put all my beliefs in my saw i trust it

[Dave Of The Dead]

I tend to lose the focus on threads is this a non-firearm thread?
However you are wrong.
Most of the Nintendo Generation do not have the strength or stamina.

True, but if you're talking about blades, then the best thing you could have is speed rather than strength. However, there are benefits that the Nintendo generation have over previous generations.

[kiltedninja]

True, but if you're talking about blades, then the best thing you could have is speed rather than strength. However, there are benefits that the Nintendo generation have over previous generations.

A higher tolerance to caffeine and stupid?

[Dave Of The Dead]

Hand-eye coordination, spatial skills, and attention to details.

[unnamedbaby77]

when TSHTF there are the those whowill have the muscle memory to draw and shoot and folks whose muscle memory will be to left click and strafe with A and D

pick your sides now .

video game based skills(time splitters-1000 headshots a day)

or TRAINING based skills(jeet kun do -1000 inside crecent kicks a day )

jet li has never been in a street fight but I would rather have him than kevin smith backing me

[Dave Of The Dead]

I'm not saying that someone who grew up playing shooters and whatnot would have equal skills as someone who has been firing a real gun all their life. I'm saying that there are advantages and disadvantages within both generations. Those who grew up in Gen x or the Nintendo age will have better planning and spatial skills than someone who didn't. Plus, hand eye coordination and reflexes would be a little sharper than others so there's a close combat advantage right there to keep it on topic a little.

[kiltedninja]

I grew up playing video games, doing martial arts, and street fighting, I think I'm set.

[homelitexl]

i grew up fightin drinkin screwin and drivin i think im set too.

[rogeneck]

i havent grew up yet. child at heart im afraid. but its not like im afraid of girls or anything.:doh:

[kiltedninja]

I'm 17 and I'm already pretty far along in terms of grown up. I live away from my parents, have a job, and all that. No car yet, but I'm working on that, and my roommate is teaching me to drive.

[unnamedbaby77]

"Plus, hand eye coordination and reflexes would be a little sharper than others so there's a close combat advantage right there to keep it on topic a little."

I am sorry but it just isnt so,

the coordination built by video games is not even close to the same as the coordination built by physical training ...its just not the same when your reflex tells you to hit X to attack instead of hit face with backfist

I play my fare share of video games so I am not knocking them in any way....its just not training . and rather insulting to someone who has spent a LONG time actually training .

I do however agree with the strategic value of tactical shooters and such ...but ONLY if you are backed with the facts of what really happens when you hear the clearing leather or the retention button snap loose

the entire point of martial training for the last 14000 years has has been to sharpen the reflexes, spatal skills and muscle memory to a razor edge

[SWAT Zombie]

i've heard that there are actually many benefits from video game playing. studies have been done to discover what effects video games have on gamers vs non-gamers. the results are quite surprising.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_games#Benefits
of course i don't think video games will ever replace real, physical combat training and experience, but it just might act as a bit of a supplement to that training.
btw, alot of people like to poo-poo wikipedia articles, which is fine, but i heard about the benefits of video gaming from somewhere else, can't remember where, so i just posted this link as a reference because it says similar stuff to what i heard. there are, of course, disadvantages to video gaming, you should be able to find that in there too.

[Onslaught]

speaking of vidoe games and weapons: I think my xbox might be big and heavy enough to take out one zombie. ;)

[kiltedninja]

"Plus, hand eye coordination and reflexes would be a little sharper than others so there's a close combat advantage right there to keep it on topic a little."

I am sorry but it just isnt so,

the coordination built by video games is not even close to the same as the coordination built by physical training ...its just not the same when your reflex tells you to hit X to attack instead of hit face with backfist

I play my fare share of video games so I am not knocking them in any way....its just not training . and rather insulting to someone who has spent a LONG time actually training .

I do however agree with the strategic value of tactical shooters and such ...but ONLY if you are backed with the facts of what really happens when you hear the clearing leather or the retention button snap loose

the entire point of martial training for the last 14000 years has has been to sharpen the reflexes, spatal skills and muscle memory to a razor edge

What do you train in? Where do you train at? People claiming to train in martial arts but not actually training in them is rather insulting to someone who actually does, mind you. This is a personal attack, I'm not even going to hide it, it's just that you've made a lot of claims, but I've never heard you say where you actually train.

Just so you don't turn this on me, I train in Muay Thai, Jujitsu, and Kali.

[Dave Of The Dead]

"Plus, hand eye coordination and reflexes would be a little sharper than others so there's a close combat advantage right there to keep it on topic a little."

I am sorry but it just isnt so,

the coordination built by video games is not even close to the same as the coordination built by physical training ...its just not the same when your reflex tells you to hit X to attack instead of hit face with backfist

I play my fare share of video games so I am not knocking them in any way....its just not training . and rather insulting to someone who has spent a LONG time actually training .

I do however agree with the strategic value of tactical shooters and such ...but ONLY if you are backed with the facts of what really happens when you hear the clearing leather or the retention button snap loose

the entire point of martial training for the last 14000 years has has been to sharpen the reflexes, spatal skills and muscle memory to a razor edge

I never said that video games are a substitute for real training. I only said that those skills would be better than someone with little to no video game experience. Training is of course the ideal way to learn skills, but simulation is better than nothing.

[kiltedninja]

A while back, Bob posted a long range shooting simulation, and I played around with it. I've never really been familiar with how to do it but the sim helped me.

[Bob]

The best close combat weapon will always be a firearm until battery technology improves so we can have laser pistols.

Think about it our cell phones are smaller and better than Star Trek communicators but our guns still go bang.
I don't know about you but I am getting tired of "Smoke Poles" I want a Phaser.

[kiltedninja]

Unnamedbaby, you not only avoided my question on the previous page, you also said something stupid on this page.

[homelitexl]

i like pie .........

[kiltedninja]

What kind of pie? I'm more partial to pumpkin and cherry.

[Bob]

I could put a small pistol in a baggie and hide it in a pie.
Pecan, Cherry, and Sweet Tater pie.
That just does not work, somehow I just can't make pie a close combat weapon.

Lets try this

I call your pie and raise you Glock 17.
Ten paces turn and fire or in your case throw your pie.:evil:

[rogeneck]

if he has a doomberry pie then you might want to watch out.

[homelitexl]

id choose the ns2000 in that case

[Dave Of The Dead]

Nice. I don't particularly like the feel of bullpup style guns but I do like the idea.

[Bob]

After watching Dawn of the Dead the original again the other day I would I think have to choose a good old baseball bat.

A bat is really a heck of a club with more technology than you might think used in its manufacture.

A well constructed mace would also work well as long as it did not have any spikes to become lodged in the skull of a Zed.
I would need a long enough handle to be used with both hands but light enough to be swung with one hand.

[weirdenator]

id go with machette the one in our shed is pretty durable and can cut prtty much anything ive tried it on so id trust that:)

[Citizen Soldier]

I'd say the Machete would be my choice, especially a good Kukri.

[Bob]

Who here can testify that a Latina Katana won't hang up in a skull?

[kiltedninja]

While I have no personal testimonial to it, I can say that the design hasn't changed much over the years for a reason.

[Bob]

Well the gospel of Romero says it will.
Just watch Dawn of the Dead the original.
It took two of the bikers to get a machete out of a Zombies skull.

[Dave Of The Dead]

I'd imagine that it would get stuck pretty easily, but I have no proof. But with something as long as the latina katana, you would probably have enough leverage to get the thing out easier than what the movies testify.

[Bob]

True Dave
That was probably pure hollywierd but never having hit a Zed with a Latina Katana I don't know either.
Ya know what sucks is there are people out there who do know first hand.
Whats the name of that street gang that carries them?

(I tried to be careful with the wording to avoid the zap...)

[SWAT Zombie]

What kind of pie? I'm more partial to pumpkin and cherry.

maybe he meant hair pie. and who could blame him?

[SWAT Zombie]

After watching Dawn of the Dead the original again the other day I would I think have to choose a good old baseball bat.

A bat is really a heck of a club with more technology than you might think used in its manufacture.

A well constructed mace would also work well as long as it did not have any spikes to become lodged in the skull of a Zed.
I would need a long enough handle to be used with both hands but light enough to be swung with one hand.

i've always prefered a decent clubbing weapon to a blade. i'd be concerned with a blade becoming embedded in the skull like that machete in 'Dawn' you referred to. and with a mace, if the spikes aren't too long, maybe if they're more like pointed studs, i think they would help penetrate the skull and destroy the brains more effectively with less of a risk of getting stuck.

[Dave Of The Dead]

True Dave
That was probably pure hollywierd but never having hit a Zed with a Latina Katana I don't know either.
Ya know what sucks is there are people out there who do know first hand.
Whats the name of that street gang that carries them?

(I tried to be careful with the wording to avoid the zap...)

MS13 or Mexican Mafia

[kiltedninja]

A machete isn't the real best close combat weapon, but it's the simplest to use and maintain while being reasonably difficult to ruin.

[Bob]

Sticking with clubs for now, there is more science to the size and location of the studs than you might think.

They have to be durable and to be large enough to concentrate the energy of the blow.
They should not themselves be sharp enough to penetrate and become lodged.
With Zed wounding is meaningless so the studs should be sparse enough that most blows will impact on only a couple of the studs increasing the chances of cranial disruption.
There should be enough of them that less than perfect contact with the club will still cause a stud to make the primary contact.

[homelitexl]

i made a meiveil flail teh tother day

[angekfire]

Don't know about where you are, but here in Ontario, flails are illegal, as are any weapons linking 2 rigid pieces by a chain or rope (nunchucks included).

Also, a flail is an incredibly dangerous weapon to use, especially if you are untrained. It has a lot of momentum, and if you miss, it will leave you completely exposed. Hell, even if you hit, it has the capacity to bounce back and smack you in the face.

Flails are very unpredictable and hard to use. Definitely not a good option.

[Bob]

Well down here in the deep South we can have all sorts of stuff.
Out yonder where Homelite lives the Sheriff is more concerned with good ol' boys making white liquor than chasing people for tying two sticks together with a piece of string.

[kiltedninja]

That's because they have their priorities straight.

A little south of here, where I go to school the cops round there will drop whatever they're doing just to get a minor for smoking a cigarette.

[Bob]

No donut shops there huh?

[SWAT Zombie]

you guys are making me jealous. almost everything is illegal here. i have to keep my nunchaku, shuriken and survival knife hidden away these days. but luckily its still easy to get hold of a good, sturdy, wood chopping axe which i guess is the better choice anyway against a zombie. pity i can't get hold of a mini-14, AK-47 or even a pump action shotgun so i can be even more effective against them. bloody aussie gun laws. why couldn't we have gone to war with the British like you guys did. :x

[homelitexl]

i feel sorry for you guys and the reason the sheirif dont care is because im his nephews best friend hes really cool we hang out alot he came up with the idea for the flail in the first place

[Sammo909]

bloody aussie gun laws. why couldn't we have gone to war with the British like you guys did. :x

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't a law passed in Victoria some years back after a spate of machete attacks outlawing swords, except some pollie pointed out that a machete is a useful tool so they were exempt from the ban?

[kiltedninja]

No donut shops there huh?

Nope. The closest one is about a mile out of their jurisdiction.

The cops in the county I live in are fairly lax, as long as my weapons are out of sight and I'm not breaking any laws, I'm okay.

[SWAT Zombie]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't a law passed in Victoria some years back after a spate of machete attacks outlawing swords, except some pollie pointed out that a machete is a useful tool so they were exempt from the ban?

i haven't heard about that. it wouldn't surprise me tho. i'm pretty sure that swords are illegal but i'm not sure about machetes. i'm just wondering when someones going to try to ban axes and large kitchen knives. maybe we should get rid of hammers too. people will always find something to use as a weapon, even if they have to rip up their floorboards or pull a branch off a tree.

[kiltedninja]

Remember the roots of white folk in Australlia man, it sounds like it's just going back to the roots to me.

[Zombardment]

I just had to go with a machette, nothing says zombie Azz kicking like a good old fashioned Machette:evil:

[SWAT Zombie]

Remember the roots of white folk in Australlia man, it sounds like it's just going back to the roots to me.

what do you mean?

[Dave Of The Dead]

what do you mean?

Austrailia was the old time Alcatraz for the criminals of England. They just shipped them off to the island when they didn't want to deal with them.

[Sammo909]

And after two hundred years had passed we'd found coal, gold and uranium then we came back and beat them at cricket.

If life were more like a movie they would've had to send in James Bond to destroy our giant gold plated steam powered nuclear wombat.

[SWAT Zombie]

Austrailia was the old time Alcatraz for the criminals of England. They just shipped them off to the island when they didn't want to deal with them.

oh right. i get it now. hmmmm. i guess i can see why someone might think that but despite the banning of alot of weapons i think Australia is far from going back to being a prison colony. our culture has never really been a big gun culture like some parts of the US. my comment (tongue in cheek of course) about going to war with Britain was refering to the 2nd amendment and how the American Revolution played some role in its inclusion in the constitution. or at least thats how i have come to understand it, correct me if i'm wrong, i'm no expert on American history. Australia's constitution never included a right to bear arms, i believe, i guess because our constitution just came about in a different way to the US constitution. the thing that kinda gets me is that all these high priced fighting knives and things like nunchaku and swords are banned but its so easy to get a strong, high quality kitchen knife or a decent axe. i've seen kitchen knives that are almost machetes. very large, very strong and could be used to do serious damage if used on a person. you don't need combat knives and swords, there's always a good substitute in a hardware shop if you just look. and if what sammo said is true about the machetes still being legal, i don't know, it doesn't make alot of sense to me. just politicians looking for votes i guess

[SWAT Zombie]

And after two hundred years had passed we'd found coal, gold and uranium then we came back and beat them at cricket.

If life were more like a movie they would've had to send in James Bond to destroy our giant gold plated steam powered nuclear wombat.

dude. sssssh. don't tell the poms and yanks about the wombat. :)

[kiltedninja]

I won't tell the British man, I'm secretly raising an army of armored pygme polar bears. But don't tell anyone.

[SWAT Zombie]

your secrets safe with me, mate ;-)

[ZombieGore]

Machete...not sure how it would really work against human bones and stuff...but nothing says awesome like choppin zombie heads(see avatar)...

[kiltedninja]

That's good.

So I've been toying around with some of my wooden training swords, and I cut the handle off my bokken and taped it with athletic tape about a foot up. Here's a picture of it and my nunchucks:

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx168/kiltedskin/467035199_1632648082_0.jpg

Like Zombiegore said, I'm not sure how well it would work, but it's very hard wood, and I'd use it if I had to. The nunchucks were just there.

[ZombieGore]

Ya dude...id kill a zed with my bong if I had to...but lets hope im not around my bong when they attack...cuz me being high and in danger is not a good mixture...:shock::drool::pray:

[kiltedninja]

Dude, that would be terrible, I go into straight kill mode when I'm high and scared. I choked a friend out cause he scared me when we were high. There's a reason I'm quitting.

[Gyro13]

This...
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/csstoreonline_2080_4637300

After thinking about it for a while i would choose a ball headed war club. Used for centuries as a skull bashing tool saw a lot of use in early American history, but best of all its specifically designed to bash a skull. Plus one of my favorite places to get knifes and such makes them.

http://www.coldsteel.com/indianwarclub.html

[kiltedninja]

I don't like the polypropelene it's made out of, I've broken two of Cold Steel's training tools. I broke the bokken they made, and the escrima stick(while training with it).

If you want my opinion of a war club, go cut a tree branch down and make one.

[Gyro13]

Very true i had one i made awhile back...like 5-6 years ago. My cousin lives out in the middle of now where so we ran around in the woods for hours at a time just making weapons of out anything lol.

[kiltedninja]

So I just spent a while chopping up logs with my machete-sword, and while it's not the sharpest thing around, it works and I still maintain that until I get something better, that's my choice.

[ZombieGore]

Dude, that would be terrible, I go into straight kill mode when I'm high and scared. I choked a friend out cause he scared me when we were high. There's a reason I'm quitting.

wow...i cant get mad if I want too when i toke...lol

[kiltedninja]

All pot does is slow down my reaction time.

[unnamedbaby77]

I will take two of these thank you
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/AK75rdpistol.jpg
and a little red wagon full of extra drum mags.....and maybe someone to pull said wagon and reload one pistol while I shoot the other



a video of a guy shooting an ak till it lights on fire...then shooting more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c

[mattifikation]

You know, all of us are prone to a bit of off topic banter every now and then, but you don't even seem to realize that we *have* topics. It's kind of annoying.

[unnamedbaby77]

I dunno that seemed like a pretty good CLOSE COMBAT WEAPON to me

I am just makin all kinds of friends !

[Bob]

I can't be certain but it looks like that is an AK pistol.
I have an AK pistol and take if from me it is not the great choice you might think it is.
It is a spray and pray weapon.
I would much rather have a folding stock AK.
Now if one was to pay the tax and put a stock on an AK pistol then you would have something.
The Draco is about 5 inches shorter than a Romanian Under Folder, if I remember correctly.

Sadly I don't have any drum mags yet though.

[unnamedbaby77]

I can't be certain but it looks like that is an AK pistol.
I have an AK pistol and take if from me it is not the great choice you might think it is.
It is a spray and pray weapon.
I would much rather have a folding stock AK.
Now if one was to pay the tax and put a stock on an AK pistol then you would have something.
The Draco is about 5 inches shorter than a Romanian Under Folder, if I remember correctly.

Sadly I don't have any drum mags yet though.

they can be kind of a pain(depending where you get them)

my brother took his 75 rounder apart after loads of FTFs and found a little component that was installed backwards

as for the spray and pray: it would have to be capable of full auto and switched to auto to have issues there...I am a single rapid shot kinda guy

[Bob]

Well it has been proven that sustained semi-auto fire is more effective but I think you missed my point.

[mattifikation]

It's a scoped weapon, you tool. I think you know damn well that close combat wasn't what the person who scoped it had in mind.

[unnamedbaby77]

It's a scoped weapon, you tool. I think you know damn well that close combat wasn't what the person who scoped it had in mind.


wow you are friendly....

it looks like a red dot to me...

[ShotGunGuy93]

wow you are friendly....

it looks like a red dot to me...

Improve your attention span.

[kiltedninja]

Seemed pretty obvious to me that it was a scope.

Anywho, I've decided to capitalize on the fact that I'm practicing Escrima and I'm going to invest in two kukris as well as a pair of ASP batons. Matt opened my eyes to the concept of "You don't always have to kill them." And Sportsman's has the Cold Steel kukri machetes stocked right now. Now I don't have to pay shipping.

Then I can give my machete swords to someone else.

[Bob]

I bought a new knife the other day.
It's one of the larger than normal K-Bars.

[CAVU45]

wow you are friendly....

it looks like a red dot to me...

Looks like a red dot to me also. I have one pretty similar to the one pictured. That being said, the AK pistol looks pretty damned unwieldy. Like Bob said, put a stock on it and it would be pretty much ideal. I just can't see anyone two fisting those things (outside of Hollywood that is) with any degree of accuracy.

[Bob]

Thank YOU!

I knew you would get it Cav.

[CAVU45]

No worries. It's pretty much common sense. Just look at the thing, especially with that horrendous, oversized drum on it.

[Bob]

This is just for you Homelite.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2912/chjes9545821.jpg

(this is not me)

[homelitexl]

wow if that was a double barrel it would be perfect

[Bob]

Well it does have a 20 round drum magazine.
That should count for something.

[hotlead]

wow if that was a double barrel it would be perfect

But it's like, a 20 barrel, ten times better than a double barrel, with a chainsaw bayonet.

[homelitexl]

its pretty wicked i like it im just sayin im a ns2OOO kinda guy

[unnamedbaby77]

Looks like a red dot to me also. I have one pretty similar to the one pictured. That being said, the AK pistol looks pretty damned unwieldy. Like Bob said, put a stock on it and it would be pretty much ideal. I just can't see anyone two fisting those things (outside of Hollywood that is) with any degree of accuracy.


Indeed I think it is close to the model available at most wal marts


as for double fisting........ahem....oh yeah ...

I doubt firing two weapons at once without EXTREME amounts of training would be effective let alone usefull

I have always said: "fire one and let wifey or (insert dependent) reload and hand off the second"

she can wear welding gloves if they get to hot

[CAVU45]

I don't understand what practical use something like that would be. Without a stock, aiming and staying on target would be difficult at best. It seems it's more a weapon for slinging as much lead down range as quickly as possible. Am I missing something?

[unnamedbaby77]

yes the fact that its in semi auto .

as I said before I don't really want to shoot faster than that (especially at zombies with which suppressive fire wont work)

I KNOW from experience that I and plenty others can handle recoil harder than an AK can dish out .

firing a semi auto 12 GA with a pistol grip is harder than a 7.62x39

[CAVU45]

I just don't get it. I understand that it's a semiauto. But accuracy has got to be for shit with it. Staying on target must suffer considerably and acquiring a new target quickly must be difficult at best. I'll stick with my trusty 1911.

[Bob]

Lets end this in a friendly way.
It is not the recoil.
Mine has a 45 degree brake on it.
The brake works surprisingly well due to the short barrel.
The short barrel causes the gas pressure to be high when it exits.
This is on top of the fact that x39 is not known for high recoil.

Don't get me wrong, it is a damn fun thing to shoot.
It's loud and has a hell of a fireball.
The fireball is bigger than that of my 4" 629 shooting maxed out hand loads.
It really makes people take notice.

It's a semi-auto sub-gun that is shot from the hip.
It sucks trying (notice I said trying) to use the sights.

It's a lot of firepower in a small semi-concealable package.
As Cav said it is well suited for filling a smallish room with flying lead.

Look at the picture I posted, it really is not all that much smaller than an under folder.
The stock makes all the difference.

[kiltedninja]

I wouldn't call it the best CQC weapon, but I do like the way that a kukri cuts.

[homelitexl]

a homelite c-9 with a 5 foot bar and chain would be wicked

[kiltedninja]

I don't know if that's 'close combat'.

Well I do have my jo staff, which is about 5 foot long, and that's a melee weapon so I guess it is.

[sk8rmichael]

why isnt a crow bar a choice? =O i think thats the best for close quarter as far as meele wepons go but for guns pistols or shot guns or smgs is the way to go for close quarters ;)

[kiltedninja]

A crowbar is neither a weapon, nor a good one. It's okay for an improvised weapon, but it's not a good weapon, especially once it gets slippery with blood.

[sk8rmichael]

but you can uuse it for more than killing unlike blades you can open doors that are locked

[kiltedninja]

I can. I used my pocket knife to get into the empty circuit city building during the summer. And you can't use a crowbar to clear brush or cut firewood. While you can use a bladed instrument to do both, and to kill.

[homelitexl]

yeah my chainsaw can open doors or make new ones

[sk8rmichael]

I can. I used my pocket knife to get into the empty circuit city building during the summer. And you can't use a crowbar to clear brush or cut firewood. While you can use a bladed instrument to do both, and to kill.

good point i think u got me xD but the bigest bladed wepon i have is a boie nife hower u spell that i dont care at the moment lol i have alot of combat knives tho but i wouldnt want to go against a zombie with one of those.... nor any sort of blunt or bladed wepon for that matter im better with guns to be totaly honest

[kiltedninja]

Guns are simpler to use, but this thread is about what close combat weapon you would use. We already have a Anti zombie weapon of choice thread.

I'd stick with my kukri and possibly my machete sword if that was necessary.

[CAVU45]

Carbines and handguns are close combat weapons.

[mattifikation]

If you look at the choices presented by the poll, it seems like the intention of the thread was to discuss melee weapons. Unless you meant that you would beat zombies down with your gun, I think it's off topic. The OP probably didn't know there was a difference between the two terms.

Baseball Bat
Axe
Shovel
Pickaxe
Chainsaw
Hammer
Machette
Cordless Drill
Stick
Other

No guns or any other projectile weapons were listed, so I think "close quarters" was used to describe melee combat.

And crowbar is a lousy weapon. I've swung one around before, and you get tired fast. It's tough to keep a grip on it even if it's dry. I can't imagine how unwieldy it would be if it was slippery with blood.

It's not just the texture or the weight. Those aren't even bad. It's the balance. A crowbar has no balance, so when you swing it the centrifugal force just pulls on it like a motherfvcker. After a half hour or so, it takes all the grip strength you have left just to keep it from flying across the room with each swing.

Now, it's a great improvised weapon. If you're empty handed, a zombie's coming at you, and there's a crowbar on the ground next to you then you can almost certainly wreck that zombie's day. I'm pretty sure if somebody thumped me with one I wouldn't be getting back up. But to keep it as your primary melee weapon is just foolish.

As for the OP's poll, I chose baseball bat but now I think I'd just like a sturdy bayonet or, failing that, I'd use the butt of my gun.

[CAVU45]

Baseball Bat
Axe
Shovel
Pickaxe
Chainsaw
Hammer
Machette
Cordless Drill
Stick

And then there's "other". I'm sure you're correct on what the intent of the thread was supposed to be. But none of the objects on the list are real weapons. Make-do or improvised melee weapons would probably be more accurate.

I agree with you concerning crowbars, though there are some that havve nice handles on them. For a true CQB weapon I'd go with something like a collapsible baton or a good fighting knife. A bayonet on the end of a carbine perhaps?

[unnamedbaby77]

Baseball Bat
Axe
Shovel
Pickaxe
Chainsaw
Hammer
Machette
Cordless Drill
Stick

And then there's "other". I'm sure you're correct on what the intent of the thread was supposed to be. But none of the objects on the list are real weapons. Make-do or improvised melee weapons would probably be more accurate.

I agree with you concerning crowbars, though there are some that havve nice handles on them. For a true CQB weapon I'd go with something like a collapsible baton or a good fighting knife. A bayonet on the end of a carbine perhaps?
bayonets indeed make great weapons. especially if you can find a nice big one
they are generally made from nice medium hard steel and usually thick as all hell at least a quarter inch thick on all mine.

combine that with good sturdy sheaths and cheap prices(for the most part) and you have a military grade blade for under 50 ducks

[ZombieGore]

Im a huge machete fan but I was curious to how realistic they are to use...how many strikes would it take to kill a single zombie?

[unnamedbaby77]

Im a huge machete fan but I was curious to how realistic they are to use...how many strikes would it take to kill a single zombie?

well that depends on what kind of training you have , what kind of machete you have , where you attack said zombie , and how much you wanna avoid getting eaten alive.

[hotlead]

Baseball Bat
Axe
Shovel
Pickaxe
Chainsaw
Hammer
Machette
Cordless Drill
Stick

And then there's "other". A bayonet on the end of a carbine perhaps?

That's what I'm sayin', the spirit of the bayonet, baby!!!

I'd prefer a bayonet and a buttplate, with a rifle in between them, to a hammer or pickaxe. No transition neccessary, just an empty magazine is all it takes to turn a rifle into a heavy, expensive, inefficient, spear/club like object. A mag change magically transforms it back into a rifle, again, no transition neccessary :clap:.

[mattifikation]

I've never wanted to be stabbed by the bayonet on an SKS.

[hotlead]

No kiddin', the cruciform bayonet the commies use makes ugly holes, very hard to deal with and control the bleeding. It would be cool to plug it with a tampon like a bullet wound, but it doesn't make round holes, all you can really do is shove gauze in there and stand on it untill you get to the ER.

[kiltedninja]

Commies aren't nice people.

I gotta say that a bayonet is a vastly underrated weapon IMO. Very sneaky too, you've got bullets coming at you and all of a sudden someone sneaks up and sticks you with their bayonet. Very ninja-esque.

[CAVU45]

I'd prefer a bayonet and a buttplate, with a rifle in between them, to a hammer or pickaxe. No transition neccessary, just an empty magazine is all it takes to turn a rifle into a heavy, expensive, inefficient, spear/club like object. A mag change magically transforms it back into a rifle, again, no transition neccessary :clap:.

Inefficient? Not at all!! It's surprising to many what one can really do with a rifle when wielded properly. Not just butt strokes, but smashes, sweeps...It's an art form in itself. It can be very effective and very deadly. Add a good sling to the mix and it's become even deadlier.

[kiltedninja]

+1 on that.

A bayonet on one end, a butt plate, a sling, the handle, the forward facing edge of the magazine on some weapons could possibly be used.

I think that's what I'll do, is create a martial art around the use of a rifle as a weapon.

[sk8rmichael]

hey we have bayonets for our sks's those things look like they would realy hurt ive never stabed any one with it hahaha

[CAVU45]

+1 on that.

A bayonet on one end, a butt plate, a sling, the handle, the forward facing edge of the magazine on some weapons could possibly be used.

I think that's what I'll do, is create a martial art around the use of a rifle as a weapon.

There's a group that's already done that. It's called the U.S Army. Actually, that sort of weapon use has been taught and practiced for decades.

[mattifikation]

Krav Maga - the real kind they teach the Israelis - trains extensively in the use of the rifles as a weapon.

You should invent real gun kata. You'd be famous.

[kiltedninja]

I totally should.

[hotlead]

All meant in jest fellas, and yeah, the magazine(on some rifles) is a handy projection. You can parry left an opponents thrust, and step in and smash the magazine of an M14 into his face and follow up with a buttstroke and then sink steel, or so I was told by the old guy next door one time.

[unnamedbaby77]

there are indeed many different forms in many different places dealing with rifle/bayonet training ...just google it and take your pick . in fact shinkendo deals with bayonet fighting a bit as wel(though more for defense)

[kiltedninja]

I don't particularly like handling rifle and bayonets though. I'm not denying that I'd use it, but I do other weapons for fun, and they're almost as useful.

[Zombieisme]

I'd have to go with........................ Machette cause I LOVE MACHETTES AND THEY'LL BE GOOD FOR A ZOMBIE ATTACK!

[weirdenator]

i like the baseball bat i can get som mad swings with it

[homelitexl]

and both of u will never live compared to me casue i choose it the best of the best chainsaw

[unnamedbaby77]

ok now I wish we had a point system.

[kiltedninja]

Homelite would have the most points out of all of us. Save for Bob.

[weirdenator]

and both of u will never live compared to me casue i choose it the best of the best chainsaw

when a chainsaw runs out of power then what are you gonna use:clap:
if it runs out its just a big heavy box of pain in the ass

[kiltedninja]

Blades can only be sharpened so many times before they lose their effectiveness as well. Especially things with a hollow grind that have to be sharpened often.

[homelitexl]

i shall find an alternate fuel source any ?

[Sammo909]

i shall find an alternate fuel source any ?

Do they make diesel chainsaws? Once the petroleum runs out you can fill her up with cooking oil.

[unnamedbaby77]

Blades can only be sharpened so many times before they lose their effectiveness as well. Especially things with a hollow grind that have to be sharpened often.


it all depends on how hard the steel is

if you are using steel with a 35-40 Rockwell temper its going to wear down faster than a steel with say a 55-60 Rockwell.

[Bob]

Honestly I think much of it depends on how you care for a knife and what you use it for.
I have utility knives that have never been sharpened with anything but course sand paper that cut like a bitch...
Don't use your fighting knife to cut your meat on a plate or stab a potato in the fire.
I personally dislike serrations.
They are practically impossible to sharpen.

Unamedbaby77
how the hell do I abbreviate your handle?


it all depends on how hard the steel is

if you are using steel with a 35-40 Rockwell temper its going to wear down faster than a steel with say a 55-60 Rockwell.

[kiltedninja]

Very carefully Bob.

[mattifikation]

unb?

this message is too short for my vahoohoo

[unnamedbaby77]

my real name is Huckleberry

most of you can call me Huck :-D

I personally like serrations(or half serrations at least) because I can use my knife as a shovel all day(if I have to) and then still cut rope efficiently

as for sharpening them most styles are only angled on one side, try sharpening the un-angled side on a hone or with high grit sandpaper

I personally use a diamond sharpener with fish hook sharpening groove, that groove seems to fit most serration spikes

[kiltedninja]

I carry multiple knives for stuff like that. When I'm out adventuring I have at least two pocket knives and a fixed blade. I'll be subtracting a pocket knife from the equation now to make room for my kukri.

[unnamedbaby77]

I generally only carry one folder and one combat/survival knife

recently I have added a backup in the form of one of my smaller double edge blades

and I just added one of these to my EDC setup

http://www.kershaw-knives.net/images/Kershaw-Zing-Orange-1735OR-600x526.jpg

I guess that puts me up to four now :-p

[Bob]

Most people who like serrations can't sharpen a knife.
That is why they like them, the serrations will still cut long after the smooth part of the blade had become duller than a butter knife.

I walked the Eagle trail 3 times and did so without a serrated knife.
I won't say I have cut more rope than you have seen but I have cut my share.

I went through a phase where I thought I should have a serrated knife so I could rip through rope.
I found that I never used it unless I was just playing with it.
A smooth bladed knife served the purpose just fine.

Different knives should be sharpened differently.
My fighting folder (if there really is such a thing) gets honed with 2000 grit to an edge that will part skin like a laser.
My general purpose knife gets sharpened with 600 grit which gives a decently fine edge.
My utility knives get sharpened with 220 which gives a very toothy edge for rough cuts.

I use several sorts of apparatus for sharpening.
Everything from a Lansky and Gatco kit to several custom made things.
One of my favorites is a strip of hard wood a couple of inches wide.
Cut sand cloth of the desired grit into strips and fasten at one end with a spring clip, hold the other end with the thumb of the off hand.
Works great, it becomes a shapening stone that never gets clogged can be used wet or dry with no problems.
You never have to resurface, BUT you do have to be able to sharpen free hand.

I also have a large piece of steel that will clamp the abrasive on both ends.
This is in addition to the standard stones and steels.
The kits are great if one cannot use sharpen free hand or wants to set up or maintain a multi-angle edge.

I promise you 99 out of 100 hosers here could not make a knife shaving sharp if their life depended on it.
I know because I have tried to teach more young men that you would believe how to properly care for and sharpen a knife.


http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9500/knife002crop6074804.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2843/knife003crop6092642.jpg

[hotlead]

That channel section thing is a pretty good idea.

If you don't mind, I'd like to give it a try, maybe with a piece of flat bar down the middle, verticle between the flanges, to mount in a vise...............

[Bob]

It was just a prototype.
It is just begging to be improved on.

[unnamedbaby77]

Most people who like serrations can't sharpen a knife.
That is why they like them, the serrations will still cut long after the smooth part of the blade had become duller than a butter knife.

I walked the Eagle trail 3 times and did so without a serrated knife.
I won't say I have cut more rope than you have seen but I have cut my share.

I went through a phase where I thought I should have a serrated knife so I could rip through rope.
I found that I never used it unless I was just playing with it.
A smooth bladed knife served the purpose just fine.

Different knives should be sharpened differently.
My fighting folder (if there really is such a thing) gets honed with 2000 grit to an edge that will part skin like a laser.
My general purpose knife gets sharpened with 600 grit which gives a decently fine edge.
My utility knives get sharpened with 220 which gives a very toothy edge for rough cuts.

I use several sorts of apparatus for sharpening.
Everything from a Lansky and Gatco kit to several custom made things.
One of my favorites is a strip of hard wood a couple of inches wide.
Cut sand cloth of the desired grit into strips and fasten at one end with a spring clip, hold the other end with the thumb of the off hand.
Works great, it becomes a shapening stone that never gets clogged can be used wet or dry with no problems.
You never have to resurface, BUT you do have to be able to sharpen free hand.

I also have a large piece of steel that will clamp the abrasive on both ends.
This is in addition to the standard stones and steels.
The kits are great if one cannot use sharpen free hand or wants to set up or maintain a multi-angle edge.

I promise you 99 out of 100 hosers here could not make a knife shaving sharp if their life depended on it.
I know because I have tried to teach more young men that you would believe how to properly care for and sharpen a knife.


http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9500/knife002crop6074804.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2843/knife003crop6092642.jpg


do you strop any of your blades bob?


and agreed I have tried to teach grown men who could not pick up sharpening .

I use a few different sharpening tools myself and I am an amateur sharpening stone collector, my favorite is a small honing stone(or the remaining half) so fine its almost translucent and it makes a great utility edge for un-stropped blades

the final stropping i do on my blades is with a chunk of Brazilian rosewood shaped like a rectangle ...it makes all my knives(minus the few crappy one I haven't tossed or given away yet) sharp enough to fillet tracing paper

having the experience with Japanese style forging and blades I have makes me very obsessive about sharpness and edge retention .

[mattifikation]

I can't sharpen knives. Then again, I've never had anyone specifically teach me. I've only tried to learn by watching videos. Either that is not an effective way to learn, or I'm just bad at it.

[Bob]

Matt
The secret to freehand sharpening is maintaining the angle.
It takes time to learn to hold your hand the same way all the time.
Raise a burr and grind it off.

Huck
I experimented with a piece of copper sheetmetal.
With and without rouge.
I was not satisfied it was superior to 2000 grit sand paper.
I have also used the cardboard back from a yellow legal pad.
For my purposes an edge that fine is to delicate.
I like a fine edge especially on my pocket knife which has a 4" blade.
I won't cut cardboard with that as it's the backup to my pocket pistol.
Which is for close encounters or to get me to my car.
If I make it to the car Woe be Unto You...

I talked to a guy who used a piece of glass with rouge to sharpen.
I never got around to that.
Theses days it's usually just a quick tune up for the kitchen knives.

Do you primarily sharpen wet or dry?

[unnamedbaby77]

Matt
The secret to freehand sharpening is maintaining the angle.
It takes time to learn to hold your hand the same way all the time.
Raise a burr and grind it off.

Huck
I experimented with a piece of copper sheetmetal.
With and without rouge.
I was not satisfied it was superior to 2000 grit sand paper.
I have also used the cardboard back from a yellow legal pad.
For my purposes an edge that fine is to delicate.
I like a fine edge especially on my pocket knife which has a 4" blade.
I won't cut cardboard with that as it's the backup to my pocket pistol.
Which is for close encounters or to get me to my car.
If I make it to the car Woe be Unto You...

I talked to a guy who used a piece of glass with rouge to sharpen.
I never got around to that.
Theses days it's usually just a quick tune up for the kitchen knives.

Do you primarily sharpen wet or dry?

Indeed Matt it takes years to be able to sharpen by feel alone dont give up and dont quit practicing .

Bob, I totally get you , its easy for me to go TOO sharp when I use my knife alot and make my blade so sharp it actually dulls faster .

As for wet or dry it depends on what I am sharpening and what i am planning on using it for , but for the most part I go fine stone-dry and strop dry on the wood block I mentioned earlier .
if I am going with a wet stone I use warm water with dish soap added to avoid steel build up on the stone and it also cleans it as I go

I am not even going to go into detail about sharpening japanese style blades with a hamon but I start dry on a belt sander at around 250 grit and finish wet(or oiled) by hand with around a 6000 grit sandpaper .

on a related note I am going to build one of your great devices from the picture and I will let you know how well I get it down

[Bob]

Huck
You will find the really fine emory cloth at automotive paint shops.
I am pretty sure I have seen 3000 grit.

You know a great item that has not been discussed is the new generation of razor knives.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3197/razorknife2209560.jpg
A huge number of blades can be had for not all that much money.
100 blades in a dispenser pack showed up for $10.99 in a quick search.
That's a hundred razor sharp blades for less than eleven cents each.
If you can't sharpen a blade they could be a god send.
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/%2835224i553tealwa41hw0sle4%29/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=20536

[unnamedbaby77]

absolutely ! I have had my husky knife in my kit since my days laying hardwood floors .

great blades and like you said : many different blade styles available

[Bob]

They are cheap and easy to find.
Everyone should have a couple.

I got an early Christmas present today.
3 K-Bar Warthogs.
Decent looking, I think the handle to blade ratio may be off a bit but not all states are as open minded as the one I live in which is why I think there are so many knives that seem to cry out for larger blades.

WE used to be limited to 2.5 inch blades this was changed and now there is NO length restriction.

How deep are the striations on that orange handled knife?

[unnamedbaby77]

How deep are the striations on that orange handled knife?

not very . there is a bit of talk about whether or not they help cutting by reducing friction, or impede it by adding grip to the flat of the blade

in all reality they aren't even deep enough to notice during sharpening .

they are easy enough to clean to.

[Redneck]

Huck
You will find the really fine emory cloth at automotive paint shops.
I am pretty sure I have seen 3000 grit.

You know a great item that has not been discussed is the new generation of razor knives.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3197/razorknife2209560.jpg
A huge number of blades can be had for not all that much money.
100 blades in a dispenser pack showed up for $10.99 in a quick search.
That's a hundred razor sharp blades for less than eleven cents each.
If you can't sharpen a blade they could be a god send.
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/%2835224i553tealwa41hw0sle4%29/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=20536

Razor knives only use half the blade at a time, so that pack of 100 is 200. (little more than 5 cents each)
I have one as a main carry now, and I do stuff that I wouldn't do with a 50$ knife, who gives a crap about a blade that is 5 cents.
I wouldn't want it for a fighting knife, a 1" blade is a bit small, but it is well worth the 20$ (razor knife and 100 blade pack)


I never thought to use sand paper, I'll try it next time I sharpen.

[unnamedbaby77]

I never thought to use sand paper, I'll try it next time I sharpen.

just make sure you start with a high grit so you don't tear up the blade to much

and if you lack the materials to make a good block to hold the paper it can still be pretty effective "wrapped" around a mill file or sharpening stone .

[VincentAceOfHearts]

i would use a shovel, but only the army spade type. ordinary gardening shovels are too heavy long and hard to swing, hard to carry along with other equipment, and usually not sharp enough. the army spades have nice serrations for making holes in undead flesh, and are quite short and easy to handle.

[Redneck]

What would be a good grit to start at?

[Bob]

That wooden holder was made with a piece of wood from the hardware store.
A spring clip can be gotten anywhere.
I used to have several more but you know how that is...

As far as the grit, it depends on the condition of the knife and whether or not you are touching up or cutting a new edge.

600 grit is about equivelent to a fine sharpening stone.
Here is a chart to help you.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9109/1136390328shrpnrcmpre49.jpg

[Redneck]

Ok, thanks.

[massacre07]

http://home.att.net/~licata_knives/warhammer.jpg

I dont own this, but this would be my ideal CQB melee weapon. Ideally I would like to have a leather grip and one slightly shorter than this. I realize theres no scale in the picture but I have seen one handed versions of this weapon.

The war hammer gives you the advantage of bludgeon and piercing in a combat situation. It can also be used to open locked doors, smash car windows etc. It also does not require any sharpening or other maintenance aside from the occasional re-gripping

[kiltedninja]

Problem with Bludgeons is their tendency to be messy, and loud.