Blades and Zombies

[Darkness]

"I knew a guy, once, who would not only have loved to have owned that toy, but who would have been able to properly wield it." :)


"He was 7' 6" and strong as an ox." :lol:

[mattifikation]

I wish I was that guy. haha

[voyager]

Well this is an interesting thread to me and it has had me doing some serious thinking on bladed weapons regarding the undead. Sure it looks great in the movies and seems to be almost ideal in some situations but is it?

I have studied japanese bladed martial arts for 11 years now with different lengths of blades and it surprised me to come to the conclusion that they are not really filled with as much "awsome awsomness" as we are lead to believe. In sparing last night at the dojo I was thinking about each attack and counter as in relation to fighting a zombie (now mind you I am thinking at least semi-fast moving zombies) and it didn't put a warm feeling in my stomach.

First of all, almost all attacks from just about every form I have used depended on the opponent not wanting to get cut or at least showing the most non-vulnerable target. Now with zombies they throw their entier body at you with absolutly no caution, the mouth being the key attack point if you will. This dosen't bode well for most defensive moves regarding the blade save for a throat (where the spine is hit) head attacks (which are more rare than you would think in most forms). And also the only real disabling attack would be a solid leg or spine hit. Most stoping or disabling attacks go for the soft spots of the body where arteries or tendons/ligaments are located as with human targets this will render the attacker an extreamly lower level threat if not out of the battle completely, with zombies...not so much.

It is in my opinion that if you were faced with more than just a 3-4 faster moving zombies and you would need more than just skill with a blade, you would need skill with a blade in specifically fighting zombies. This is all just my speculation and it pretains to my personal skill level. I have seen kendoka much younger and faster than myself that I would lay better odds on. But if your the average backyard bottle cutter my advice would be to use a gun, thats what I intend to start with. My blades will come out after the ammo is gone for the most part.

Dan

[Onslaught]

Well this is an interesting thread to me and it has had me doing some serious thinking on bladed weapons regarding the undead. Sure it looks great in the movies and seems to be almost ideal in some situations but is it?

I have studied japanese bladed martial arts for 11 years now with different lengths of blades and it surprised me to come to the conclusion that they are not really filled with as much "awsome awsomness" as we are lead to believe. In sparing last night at the dojo I was thinking about each attack and counter as in relation to fighting a zombie (now mind you I am thinking at least semi-fast moving zombies) and it didn't put a warm feeling in my stomach.

First of all, almost all attacks from just about every form I have used depended on the opponent not wanting to get cut or at least showing the most non-vulnerable target. Now with zombies they throw their entier body at you with absolutly no caution, the mouth being the key attack point if you will. This dosen't bode well for most defensive moves regarding the blade save for a throat (where the spine is hit) head attacks (which are more rare than you would think in most forms). And also the only real disabling attack would be a solid leg or spine hit. Most stoping or disabling attacks go for the soft spots of the body where arteries or tendons/ligaments are located as with human targets this will render the attacker an extreamly lower level threat if not out of the battle completely, with zombies...not so much.

It is in my opinion that if you were faced with more than just a 3-4 faster moving zombies and you would need more than just skill with a blade, you would need skill with a blade in specifically fighting zombies. This is all just my speculation and it pretains to my personal skill level. I have seen kendoka much younger and faster than myself that I would lay better odds on. But if your the average backyard bottle cutter my advice would be to use a gun, thats what I intend to start with. My blades will come out after the ammo is gone for the most part.

Dan

Thanks Dan,

It's nice to hear someone with actual experience with japanese swordfighting talk about the drawbacks of such styles against the undead. I sometimes tire of all the mall ninjas and samurai humpers who seem cultishly obsessed with the katana and ninjato (many of whom have about as much experience with them as anyone else who's seen kill bill). I know that the katana is meant to be used in a draw-cut and is extremely effective against flesh, but would you agree that it may not be the best weapon for repeated strikes against cranial bone? Also, what is your opinion of the katana's usefulness in such a capacity in an enclosed space? Let's say something like a residential hallway or a bedroom, they're shambling toward you single file.
Do you feel that you would be able to incapacitate 3 zombies through brain destruction in that scenario?

I would personally prefer a weapon that allowed for fast overhead chops coming straight down on the crown of the head, avoiding the arms.


I have a question for some others in this thread as well...

First, how is it that you plan to smash through a skull and destroy a brain while managing to Not splatter yourself with gore?
Last i checked, crime scenes involving hammer or baseball bat related murders(excessive head trauma) were very messy. In fact, in one case, they were able to discern the position of the killer as he beat his victim because of the relatively clean "shadow" on the wall. There were less blood droplets there because they were all landing on the killer.

Second, in the classic "romero" zombie situation, the zombies are dead. This means that their blood has congealed to the point where it is no longer liquid. Hence, very little splatter.

Third, most splatter will hit as you draw the weapon back at high speed for a follow-up swing. Good blades make this unneccesary due to first shot penetration. Blunt objects capable of consistent first shot stops are going to be too heavy to wield long term and they are ging to tire you quickly. Blunt objects that are light enough to weild long term are going to require multiple hits. This is a matter of physics. You are using more surface area, thereby spreading out the force, thereby requiring more force in order to get the work done. This extra work comes in the form of more weight, more speed, or another swing. All of these things will slow you down. Speed kills. Blades work because they focus al of the power of a baseball bat's swing onto an area the size of a knifes edge.

Try this at home: Get an apple, a hammer, a knife, and a dime. Now lay the dime on the apple and let the weight of the hammer fall (do not swing it forcefully, let it fall under it's own weight) on the dime from a height of one foot. What happened? Now try it with the knife. What happened that time? Another quick experiment is to go out into the show in high heels and then in show shoes. You get the picture.

[Gummerfan]

It is in my opinion that if you were faced with more than just a 3-4 faster moving zombies and you would need more than just skill with a blade, you would need skill with a blade in specifically fighting zombies.
I totally agree. When it comes to "sword vs zed", Talhoffer, Liechtenauer, and yes, even the great Fiore have to go out the window. Forget feints, guard positions, timing and distance. Thrusts are pointless, and that clever use of footwork to throw your opponent offguard isn't going to work on a mindless undead enemy.
But, OTOH, if you can execute the basic cuts, and have a sword intended for serious use, I think swordsmanship (or "zombie swordsmanship") can be a valuable skill.
I also agree (as I'm sure most here do) that swords and other hand weapons have serious drawbacks and limitations and are best used as a backup weapon, or reserved for instances in which a gun isn't available.

[KrimsonKing]

[QUOTE=Onslaught;378636]

I know that the katana is meant to be used in a draw-cut


The Katana is meant to be used from ANY angel to devastating effect.


would you agree that it may not be the best weapon for repeated strikes against cranial bone?

A real katana has a thick spine and is made of high carbon steel that has been folded hundreds of times, making it nearly unbreakable.Given the speed, power, lightness, and durability of the Katana, I could slay Zom until I had to succumb to exhaustion. (A couple hundred swings) Not only can the Katana slice through a skull with ease, it can slice an entire body in half.

what is your opinion of the katana's usefulness in such a capacity in an enclosed space

In tight spaces you don’t have to rely on a full swing to get the job done, use the twisting of you body to drive the blade. The Ninjato is even easier to use in tight spaces and offers almost the same amount of power and you can strike even quicker.


Do your self a big favor and see what the SCIECETIS have to say about the Katana. If you have and more doubts about the Katana after watching the video there is somthing wrong with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQRFuBeRAi4&feature=PlayList&p=C6107D6321D21631&playnext=1&index=44

here is a little taste of ninjitsu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMZZr94WFRc


I know the question wasn’t directed at me but I don’t care, I had to set you straight.

[Gummerfan]

It ain't that simple.
Katana are HEAVIER than comparable European swords. They are way more blade-heavy and the blades are beefier than Euro swords because katana were made of inferior steel. Katana blades are NOT folded hundreds of times. They may have hundreds of LAYERS produced by folding, but it they are only folded enough times to hammer out the impurities in the tamahagane and to acheive the proper carbon content. (folding the steel hundreds of times would drive out all the carbon and result in a blade of almost pure iron, not good!)
A good European longsword is lighter, better balanced, faster, more durable, and cuts just as well (if not better) than a comparable kat. (sure, there are exceptions, like a Howard Clark L6 kat, but that's like comparing the space shuttle to a Model T) :)
And no, I'm not dissing the kat. They are indeed fine weapons, but they aren't some kind of super-be-all-end-all of the sword world. Anything that can be done with a kat can be done just as well (or even better) with a proper European style sword.

[mattifikation]

Ninja fanboy telling somebody with years of experience *using* a katana that he doesn't know shit about katanas... haha!

Awesome schooling of said ninja fanboy in the rebuttal, though.

[mattifikation]

First, how is it that you plan to smash through a skull and destroy a brain while managing to Not splatter yourself with gore?

If I don't have a gun, killing the zeds is completely out of the question. I just want something light and sturdy that I can push or knock them out of the way with.

Considering a zombie's lack of balance and agility, I'm sure a bat to the head, or even the chest or legs for that matter, will throw them off and leave them lying on the floor for a few minutes while I run away. Head trauma be damned, my goal is to survive the zombie outbreak, not personally be the destroyer of every zombie I lay eyes on.

[voyager]

Onslaught:
Also, what is your opinion of the katana's usefulness in such a capacity in an enclosed space? Let's say something like a residential hallway or a bedroom, they're shambling toward you single file.


This is actually a quite common sceniro in some forms. The samurai were to defend the dimayo to the death, that included inside the castle or supply tunnels that often proved to be battlegrounds on raids. I suppose to answer your question yes it is possible to defend this possision against the undead, and in some ways would be preferable. On one hand as each zombie was dispatched it provides a stumbling block for the next to get to you, fallen zombies are easier to kill :)

But on the other hand you would almost have to rely on thrusting attacks to the face, head and neck. Well as I think disableing the legs would be good as well, but from the low guard position it wouldn't be that easy to take out a leg on an undead. You would have to hit the ligament or tendons, and breaking a bone with a sword, well see the video below.

Do you feel that you would be able to incapacitate 3 zombies through brain destruction in that scenario?

Yes I belive I would be able to, but it would require thinking outside the usual combat box for me.

I would personally prefer a weapon that allowed for fast overhead chops coming straight down on the crown of the head, avoiding the arms.


In an enclosed space the height of the celing would limit your swings I think.

KrimsonKing
If you’re going to diss the Katana, you DON’T KNOW SHIT about the Katana

There's really no need to insult anyone about the knowledge they have. For my own curiosity what martial blade experience do you have?

I know that the katana is meant to be used in a draw-cut
The Katana is meant to be used from ANY angel to devastating effect.


You are absollutly correct on the draw-cut, it is what makes the sori (curve of the blade) such a plus. And the katana can be used for possibly devistating attacks from probably just about any angle against an unarmored "living" human. The undead though...well I am gonna have to disagree with you there on that one. Some possisions just don't alow for the proper swing to "take out" a zombie with one stroke.

A real katana has a thick spine and is made of high carbon steel that has been folded hundreds of times, making it nearly unbreakable.Given the speed, power, lightness, and durability of the Katana, I could slay Zom until I had to succumb to exhaustion. (A couple hundred swings) Not only can the Katana slice through a skull with ease, it can slice an entire body in half.


The Katana are made in various methods from different metals in these modern times and I will deal with those as that is what we will be using against the dead. Yes in is documented that swords were tested in convicted criminals, sometimes cutting through as many as three at once. One of the big trends in modern sword making is 9260 spring steel, I have one in it myself and I must say it is very resielant. But also for your consideration is the clip below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CULodyCjMH8

Gummerfan
Katana are HEAVIER than comparable European swords. They are way more blade-heavy and the blades are beefier than Euro swords because katana were made of inferior steel.

Well now that isn't really true, these articles from The Association of Renaissance Martil Arts sums it up much better than I could.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm
and
http://www.thearma.org/essays/longsword-and-katana.html

Also you might want to look at the weights of these two traditionaly made modern swords, The Hanwei Paper Crane Katana & the Albion Baron War Sword.

http://www.casiberia.com/product_details.asp?id=SH2294
and
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-baron-xiia.htm
A good European longsword is lighter, better balanced, faster, more durable, and cuts just as well (if not better) than a comparable kat. (sure, there are exceptions, like a Howard Clark L6 kat, but that's like comparing the space shuttle to a Model T)

Again this is just not true. Bear in mind the sword does not swing itself, it is the weilder that provides. You take the best well made Albion medieval oakshott type sword and but it in the hands of a novice and you take a ebay 1045 katana for $50 and put it in the hands of a shodan and well guess where my moneys going?

They are indeed fine weapons, but they aren't some kind of super-be-all-end-all of the sword world. Anything that can be done with a kat can be done just as well (or even better) with a proper European style sword.


As I mentioned above the skill of the user taken into account I totally agree. The even better part, well that depends on what you use it for. Katana=slicing & thrusting and European Longsword=chopping & thrusting. Not to say they can't be used for anything, but that was how their blade geometry is designed.

Here's a little quiz to take a look at and see how you do, I thought it might enlighten you a bit.

http://www.albion-swords.com/articles/images/sword-myth-quiz.pdf

I hope I have not offended anyone and I'll be glad to talk about anything else on this matter you want to.

Dan

P.S. Yeah I know I am a horrible speller

[Gummerfan]

I'll see your Albions and raise you an Angus Trim
http://www.angustrimdirect.com/longswordhome.htm
and maybe throw in a Tinker Pearce
http://tinkerswords.com/Page%203.html
:)
I've got two Atrims and a Tinker on the wall right now. I've also owned or handled katana from Kris Cutlery & Cold Steel through Paul Chen and Rick Barrett. Without exception, for a comparably sized cutting sword (make no mistake, Euro swords cut) the kat is much more blade heavy. The Barrett piece was much more nicely balanced than the production swords (as well it should be for a high-end custom blade), but the Euros I've had/have out-handle them all.
This isn't bashing the kat, part of Japanese swordsmanship, after all, is learning to deal with the katana's handling characteristics.
As far as performance, well, I've seen both styles do incredible things in the hands of a competent swordsman.

[voyager]

I'll see your Albions and raise you an Angus Trim
http://www.angustrimdirect.com/longswordhome.htm
and maybe throw in a Tinker Pearce
http://tinkerswords.com/Page%203.html
:)

I've got two Atrims and a Tinker on the wall right now. I've also owned or handled katana from Kris Cutlery & Cold Steel through Paul Chen and Rick Barrett. Without exception, for a comparably sized cutting sword (make no mistake, Euro swords cut) the kat is much more blade heavy. The Barrett piece was much more nicely balanced than the production swords (as well it should be for a high-end custom blade), but the Euros I've had/have out-handle them all.
This isn't bashing the kat, part of Japanese swordsmanship, after all, is learning to deal with the katana's handling characteristics.
As far as performance, well, I've seen both styles do incredible things in the hands of a competent swordsman.

Your comment about competent swordsmanship is correct without fault. The skill level and training with one style or another will make the differnce. You like european swords and thats compleatly fine, I would expect you to be able to perform better having trained with those. Just as I would be greatly less skilled with a european long sword in hand I believe.

But I do have to disagree with your comment that the japanese swords being much more heavy than european swords. Just look at the weights represented in your own links there.

The Angus Trim Model 1564 Bastard Backsword is listed as having a weight of 2 lb 8 oz and the Hanwei Paper Crane is 2lb 5oz. Their Ronin Katana weighs in at 3lbs, now in my experience thats about the heaviest modern production katana I have seen, that dosen't mean they don't exist. It seems some of the Angus sword you listed are even more than that. I will be the first to admit that I know very little about european swords in general though. So I am just going off the information you have given.

Some Europeans weight more tha Japanese and vice versa. If I had to give an answer I would say they are about in the same ballpark give or take a few onces here and there. This is not considering swords like the nodachi or the zweihander.

Thanks for the info!

Dan

[Gummerfan]

In case you didn't browse around, you should look at Gus's Bastard Sabers as well
http://www.angustrimdirect.com/saberhome.htm
That Bastard Backsword you mentioned is very similar to mine. Mine is based on one of Gus's earlier versions. No fuller, "S"-shaped handguard, custom grip wrap. It's about as heavy as I care to go for a sword of that type.
Is Chen still making the Wind and Thunder katana? Those things weighed around 3 lbs. I know they used to turn up a lot on the used market after buyers found they didn't want to cope with the weight.
I appreciate your input and the fact that we could disuss our opinions without it degenerating into something unpleasant. :)
And if you get a chance to handle a well-made Euro sword, you may be pleasantly surprised. (you just may never "go back") :lol:
Now, back to topic:
If one can handle a bladed weapon competently, if the weapon is up to the rigors of actual combat use, then I feel that it would be of use against zombies within the limitations of the weapon and the user.
If you can cut goza, you can cut zombies. :)

[voyager]

I appreciate your input and the fact that we could disuss our opinions without it degenerating into something unpleasant.
And if you get a chance to handle a well-made Euro sword, you may be pleasantly surprised. (you just may never "go back")

I have handled a few higher end european swords and been able to resist the pull to the "dark side". :)

the Wind and Thunder katana? Those things weighed around 3 lbs

That's very true, but you will be hard pressed to to find katana that weighs more, but it's noy uncommon to find europeans that do weight more than that.

If you can cut goza, you can cut zombies.

Absolutly true and goza isn't afraid to get cut just like zombies. But then again goza dosen't chase you and goza don't bite. (that just put in my head that line from Apocolypse now "Charlie don't surf.) Ok it's late and my digression lets my brain know it needs sleep.

Dan

P.S. Katana's RULE! j/k :lol:

[Bob]

I am sadly lacking in experience with a sword.
As it seems are some of the participants in this discussion.

Swords were not popular when I was young and now I am to old and broke up to use on effectively.

So I will just have to stick with guns...

[Onslaught]

If you’re going to diss the Katana, you DON’T KNOW SHIT about the Katana:x
.
If you are going to diss the Ninjato, you DON’T KNOW SHIT about the Ninjato.:x

If you are going to diss Ninjitsu you DON’T KNOW SHIT about Ninjitsu.:x

At this point it would like to point out that i am definitely dissing mall ninjas and fanbois who seem to have wood for anything japanese simply because it is japanese. I am also dissing anyone who can not have an objective, civilised dicussion that encompasses a scientific breakdown of the pros and cons of different bladed weapons for use against a zombie's skull. However, I am not "dissing" inanimate pieces of steel. I do find the ones mentioned to be less than ideal for the task under discussion, but i wholeheartedly agree that they are very good at the tasks they were designed for when used as intended.




[quote=Onslaught;378636]

I know that the katana is meant to be used in a draw-cut


The Katana is meant to be used from ANY angel to devastating effect.

Ok, test this for me then...

Take two katanas. With the first perform 100 full power slashes (draw cuts) against a target simulating skull, and using proper form. With the second, chop the target (something to approximate a skull) overhead as if you were using an axe. Tell me which does more damage, and which shows more wear.


It is clear to see by it's very form that the katana was meant to be used in a slashing cut that exposes as much of the target to the sharp blade as possible by sliding the blade through the target. It is not a cleaver, it is a razor. It was not engineered to attack hard targets with a chopping motion.
It was made for fighting living human beings, not zombies. There are two ways to stop an attacker quickly and reliably: hydraulically, (loss of blood) or electrically (Central nervous system disruption).
The cardiovascular system is a much larger and softer target. It is this target that the katana was designed to attack. In a zombie, the cordiovasular system is not a target of value, the CNS is.

would you agree that it may not be the best weapon for repeated strikes against cranial bone?

A real katana has a thick spine and is made of high carbon steel that has been folded hundreds of times, making it nearly unbreakable.Given the speed, power, lightness, and durability of the Katana, I could slay Zom until I had to succumb to exhaustion. (A couple hundred swings) Not only can the Katana slice through a skull with ease, it can slice an entire body in half.

If you think that folding modern carbon steels adds strength, YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT METALLURGY!
Modern steels are meticulously engineered for specific purposes. Folded steel ina blade is no longer necessary, it is now only ever done to produce a pattern or for the sake of tradition. Heat treatment has more to do with the functional utility and quality of a sword than whether or not it was folded. Besides, after heat treatment the steel acts as if it were homogenous anyway unless it is of san-mai construction. In which case, the same effect could have been rendered with either proper steel selection from he outset or different heat treatment. Also, in this day and age, folding can be quite a detriment. If there is even one cold shut, one impurity introduced during the fold, one section that doesn't properly weld, your "mystical katana of epic win" will fail.
Speed and power come from you, not the sword, if i lay the sword on the table it has no speed or power.

IT'S JUST A SWORD FOLKS. JUST ANOTHER SHARP, INANIMATE OBJECT. IT HAS NO MYSTICAL "CUTTING POWER", NO INHERENT "SPEED".

The only things that matter are heat treatment, edge geometry, quality of construction, and weight distribution/balance. Anything else is fluff.

A body and a skull are very different. The skull is an armored protective shell. It offers more resistance than you willl find in any other structural member of the body other than the pelvis or femur. The rest of the body, by comparison, is mostly soft organs or semi-fibrous muscle. I have no doubt that the katana is an excellent tool for cutting through the rest of the body, just not so much on the skull.

what is your opinion of the katana's usefulness in such a capacity in an enclosed space

In tight spaces you don’t have to rely on a full swing to get the job done, use the twisting of you body to drive the blade. The Ninjato is even easier to use in tight spaces and offers almost the same amount of power and you can strike even quicker.

But theres the rub... you hanve to generate power with your hips to get the job done. That takes proper footing, which is not always available. I am well aware of the body movements needed to make the katana work it's "magic". Generating power through twisting the hips and dropping the entire weight of the body into the swing can yeild immensely powerful strikes. But, that only works if you've got the room and the foot positioning. Remember, this blade was meant for men, and men can be stopped with a thrust to the chest, zombies can not.


Do your self a big favor and see what the SCIECETIS have to say about the Katana. If you have and more doubts about the Katana after watching the video there is somthing wrong with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQRFuBeRAi4&feature=PlayList&p=C6107D6321D21631&playnext=1&index=44

here is a little taste of ninjitsu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMZZr94WFRc


While they were using scientific equipment and i do applaud them for actually taking measurements, that was not science. That was entertainment. It may have been better if they had actually used scientific testing methods (use of The Scientific Method, sampling many strikes from many strikers, comparing like data, etc.) and completely omitted everything that the narrator was saying, but they didn't because that's called a study, not a show. What you posted was for entertainment, if you want to post something and then claim it to be "SCIECE" I'd suggest you link to actual data or at the very least some decent real world testing.

Please try to remember that this conversation is in the context of ZOMBIES. Ninjitsu would get you eaten. Period.


I know the question wasn’t directed at me but I don’t care, I had to set you straight.


oh dear...


Sorry (to all who aren't Krimson) if i got a bit testy in my reply there.

Voyager, Gummerfan, I am really glad to have you here discussing things calmly and objectively. And showing considerable experience to boot!

[Dave Of The Dead]

Wow, it looks like I missed quite a bit while I've been working. Here is my stance on blades separated into two categories.

"The Straight Blade"
This weapon is mostly found in European cultures. Like the longsword or bastard sword or claymore, they all have long straight-edge blades. When you swing these into a material, there is a large portion of the blade making contact at the same time. This lets the energy get spread out on a wider area and this isn't exactly a good thing. It makes it harder to chop through that material, or at least won't go as far through as a curved blade.

"The Curved Blade"
Now this blade is mostly found in eastern cultures like India, China, and Japan (most notable being the katana). These weapons are famous for being hand-made with folded steel. Crafters may spend months creating these weapons so the possibility for folding the steel "hundreds of times" is a little more realistic than you would think. So now to the physics of curved blades. When you strike a material with a curved blade, contact is made on a very small portion of the edge. All the force you put into swinging the weapon in directed to this small point, making it much much easier to slice through the material than a straight blade.

Okay, now since I missed this earlier, lets get to the tactics side of using a blade in zed combat. Using a blade on a zombie isn't like using any other weapon mentioned on this forum. I thought about this long and hard and I would say that aiming for the skull would be more or less idiotic. You want to keep your blade nice and sharp for long periods of time, and trying to slice through skull isn't exactly the trick to doing that. And lets not forget that if you fail to slice clean through, you run the risk of getting it stuck, bending your blade (if its just that cheap), or dulling the ever living shit out of your edge. There are a few places that I would consider smart spots to aim for. These include the Neck and the Back. You want to avoid as much bone as possible is you are using a blade, so aim to either chop the head off, rather than chopping it in half, or severing the spinal cord.

[voyager]

If you think that folding modern carbon steels adds strength, YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT METALLURGY!
Modern steels are meticulously engineered for specific purposes. Folded steel ina blade is no longer necessary, it is now only ever done to produce a pattern or for the sake of tradition. Heat treatment has more to do with the functional utility and quality of a sword than whether or not it was folded. Besides, after heat treatment the steel acts as if it were homogenous anyway unless it is of san-mai construction. In which case, the same effect could have been rendered with either proper steel selection from he outset or different heat treatment. Also, in this day and age, folding can be quite a detriment. If there is even one cold shut, one impurity introduced during the fold, one section that doesn't properly weld, your "mystical katana of epic win" will fail.
Speed and power come from you, not the sword, if i lay the sword on the table it has no speed or power.

IT'S JUST A SWORD FOLKS. JUST ANOTHER SHARP, INANIMATE OBJECT. IT HAS NO MYSTICAL "CUTTING POWER", NO INHERENT "SPEED".


:clap:

Very well said. +1

With today's modern metal engineering folded steel is mostly a choice of asthetics. And with zombies, regardels if its eruo, japanese, mexican, canadian or from where ever with blades you would want the most forgiving and durable metals for your weapon I would think.

[JJkotz]

if I was like Approached by a small horde of zombies I would probably use a big combat machete just because it would be fun to cut off their heads with great force :lol:

If I was surrounde by a huge horde of the undead I would probably us soemthing with a long grip, maybe a long, sharp spear to stab their heads quickly off while watching the blood fly through the air, splatering against a window, this would also be much fun :)

[KrimsonKing]

Ninja fanboy telling somebody with years of experience *using* a katana that he doesn't know shit about katanas... haha!

Awesome schooling of said ninja fanboy in the rebuttal, though.


That little gem was directed at onslaught, not voyager.
I'm realy not an asshole, I was just trying to get my point across and keep my solders alive.

[KrimsonKing]

Onslaught,

So,

Because my favorite sword is the katana and I appreciate ninjitsu that labels me a mall ninja, samurai humper, fanboy that loves everything Japanese because it is Japanese, has no martial art experience and thinks the katana is magical?

You speak of having discussion in a calm, civilized manner and yet you are the one who started with the slander and criticism. They have a word for that and the word is hypocrisy.

You’re prejudiced, discriminating and narrow-minded point of view is something I will never understand, and I don’t think I want to.

By the way, my original post would have had a far different tone/attitude if you had not begun with your derogatory and belittling comments. Why do you resort to name calling. How old are you? Why do you presume to know what I know and what I’m capable of?

I would like to have a civilized conversation with out such unpleasantness, so I apologize if I was presumptuous or offended yourself or anyone else.


As for attacking the skull with the katana, it is finely suited for the task. The best way the attack a skull with a katana is to strike with the first 2 inches of the blade. The chisel like tanto tip has something like a second point on its bottom. With all the kinetic energy focused on such a small, pointed surface even a poor quality katana (full tang of course) would have no trouble splitting the hard, yet brittle scull. Also, the tanto tip is designed to pierce armor, so stabbing the skull is much easier compared to other swords.

A straight sword is better at piercing, a curved sword is better at cutting, a katana is equally good at both because it is curved and has a armor piercing tip.

I have never seen a tip that could compare with the tanto, if you have please share.

If you want to test how any weapon will fare against a skull, test it on a coconut, they have almost the same characteristics of a skull. I didn’t use one katana in each hand because I only have one (laugh if you will, but it is a heat treated high carbon stainless) but I did use one handed strikes with each hand and a few others, if I were to dual wield, I would use a katana and a wakizashi. I got the same result every time, complete destruction of the coconut. I imagine a straight European sword would have about the same effect since the coconut is more shattered then cut. The downward strikes are the easiest since they are gravity assisted. Even when not implementing the tanto tip, the impact would still be delivered on a relatively small surface since the blade is curved.

I did this way before I started posting here, so don’t think I went and jumped through your hoops.

If you don’t have enough room, good footing or whatever for the two handed push pull method you can push on the back of the blade for added torque and your accuracy can be increased because you are guiding the blade much closer to the tip.

When I spoke of the speed and power of the katana, I meant it as a comparison to other swords, I can swing a katana a hell of a lot faster than I could a broad sword, the power comes from the speed. I could swing a rapier faster than a katana but it doesn’t have the blade geometry to effectively turn that speed into cutting power.

And of course a sword is no better or worse than the person wielding it.( this is my sword, there are many like it but this one is mine, without me my sword is useless, without my sword I am useless ECT…)

I definitely should have gone into more detail about the forging of the Katana.

If you make a sword of hard steel, it will be sharp and hold an edge but it will be brittle and may chip or even break. If you make a sword from softer, more flexible steel your sword may not break but it won’t be sharp or hold an edge.

The katana smiths realized this and blended the two, a low carbon iron back and core, and a high carbon steel outer skin and edge. The video can explain it a lot better than I can; it also explains how the katana gets its curved shape naturally during quenching because of the clay and charcoal paint.

This is why I believe the only true katanas are those which are hand crafted. They go for $5,000 to $25,000. Quite a bit more than i can afford.

As Gufferman pointed out, folding steel hundreds of times would not only hammer out the impurities (such as sulfur) but most of the carbon as well resulting in almost total iron which is exactly what they wanted for the back and core.

The folding of the steel is to evenly spread the carbon content. A dozen or more folds create more than 5,000 layers in the steel, each one supporting the next. You are correct in saying that one mistake during the folding process can ruin the blade, that is why apprenticeship for katana making takes longer than ten years.

By the way, don’t put words in my mouth.

you can find the full version on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwQqtf86qOc

I thought this was pretty cool, a katana taking on a 50. cal, check out the slow motion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sHTJAKN-5k

[Dave Of The Dead]

I completely agree that you can easily split the skull with a katana or any sword for that matter (if you're trained well enough.) But my point was why ruin the edge, especially if you aren't exactly familiar with sharpening blades? The zombie has more weak spots than just the head, and chopping weapons are pretty much the only places where they come in handy.

[KrimsonKing]

Very true,
Attacking the spinal cord (which begins at the base of the skull and ends just above the small of the back) would be very effective. Usually I would always recommend following through with your strike, but if your attacking the neck with a bladed weapon I would suggest pulling your strike, so as not to completely sever the head, creating a minefield of ankle biters.
There are other ways of destroying the brain with a bladed weapon without destroying the skull, such as stabbing up under the chin, up through the eye, through the temple, and up through the base of the skull.
The only bladed weapon I can think of that won’t really be affected by being dulled would be an ax, especially if you’re smashing skulls with it. (I sharpen mine with a steel file) however I consider axes and hatchets to be more of a bludgeoning weapon, but that’s just me.

[Dave Of The Dead]

When I get a new blade, whether is be an axe or sword, I sharpen it to its fullest cutting potential with my industrial bench grinder. I have sort of an underground business in my town for restoring rusted and dulled blades, so I know a think or two about freakishly sharp blades. In fact, when I joined this forum was about 2 weeks after cutting off my left index finger with a newly sharpened buck knife. I got it re-attached of course.

[mattifikation]

I'm really bad at sharpening knives. I just can't seem to get it down, for some reason. Sometimes I end up with a blade that's just simply not any sharper, or one with an edge that's all pitted and scratched up.

[KrimsonKing]

Can you make a blade have a razor edge with the grinding wheel? I never sharpened a blade on one but if so, kudos. I can sharpen my blades to a razor edge as well, but I use a whetstone and it takes me like an hour. It actually takes quite allot of finesse to hold a blade at a constant 5 degree angel for an hour.

Also, I wouldn’t recommend sharpening an ax to a razor edge, those things are designed for abuse and to thin an edge may chip, I believe a 20 or 25 degree angel would do nicely.

Just trying to help.

[KrimsonKing]

I'm really bad at sharpening knives. I just can't seem to get it down, for some reason. Sometimes I end up with a blade that's just simply not any sharper, or one with an edge that's all pitted and scratched up.

The real key to sharpening is holding the blade at a constant angel. If using a whetstone be sure to lubricate it, I use oil or spit. :)

[voyager]

The katana edge is different to the european edge and this is simply due to blade geometry. Examples and essays can be found all over the web. This may be something that would play a part in what type of "prolonged" bladed combat one would undertake. Your local bladesmith isn't going to be around after the zombie outbreak I am guessing.

Not to say again one is more resiliant that the other, but again that they were designed for different uses. Metal full body armor and shields were not worn in Japan and softer armor (mostly leather, packed linen, or wicker) was not a component faced in heavy combat in Europe. Attached below is a guide for sharpening a katana from a Toyama Ryu website (this happens to be the main style of swordsmanship I study). This was taught to Japanese soilders in WWI & WW2, so in my opinion it does have it's pluses in facing zombies as it does deal in certain instances with opponents without swords themselves in close combat.

http://www.toyamaryu.org/SharpenGuide.htm

[Gummerfan]

I imagine a straight European sword would have about the same effect since the coconut is more shattered then cut.
With my Euro swords, I can slice water bottles and water-filled Pringles cans all day and leave the remainder still sitting on the stand.
That's cutting, not shattering, smashing, or chopping.
But that's what these blades were designed for.
And truth be known, the curve of a blade has very little to do with its cutting performance. The amount of sori in a katana is more of a personal choice than anything else. (otherwise, all katana would be pretty identical in curvature, right?). I've seen tamashigiri competitors use blades that range from curved to almost completely straight. As has been said, it's the swordsman, not the sword. :)
...if I were to dual wield, I would use a katana and a wakizashi.
I've fooled around with "dual wielding". In my experience it's vastly overrated. And against zombies, it would be pretty much useless. A big plus against multiple attackers is that you can use one blade to creat distance, but since zeds don't care, it wouldn't hold them at bay. I've also tried dual-swords vs multiple targets. I found I didn't need a PACT timer to tell me that I could do the job much quicker and more efficiently with one sword.

[KrimsonKing]

Cutting water containers is fine for gauging a cut on flesh, but by the quote I would guess that attacking the skull is the topic at hand. A skull is hard, thus brittle; I can just about guarantee you that you will find a lot more breaks and fractures than actual cuts, regardless of the sword being used. The skull also differs greatly from arm and leg bones which are long, thin tubes by comparison.

Would you not agree that a curved blade has more cutting surface than a straight blade of equal length?

You are absolutely right about the katana shape; no Katana is the same it all comes down to the preferences of the user and the smith.
You may find the link below informative, not only dose it give descriptions of different katana shapes, but also the laminate inside the blade which is one of the biggest reasons I like the katana.

Do you know of another sword that uses such laminating techniques?

As for dual wielding, that also comes down to the personal preferences of the user. I must disagree when you say that dual wielding is useless against zombies.
Personally being able block and attack at the same time sounds quite appealing. There is such a thing as overkill and a two handed swing may not be necessarily, especially if you know how to move your body with the blade.

http://members.shaw.ca/nihontonut/glossary.html

[Gummerfan]

There are plenty of examples of lamination being used in Western swords. Damascus, wootz, and cable-welded steels are all laminates in one form or another. But once the West developed better steels, lamination was no longer necessary. With modern steels and heat treating methods, lamination is no longer needed. Smiths (both Western and Eastern) today who laminate do so either as a nod to tradition or to showcase their talent, skill, and artistry.
As for dual wielding, that also comes down to the personal preferences of the user. I suppose if one is already a master in the use of one sword that may be true. But using two swords is exponentially more difficult than using one to acheive the same result. (the fact that there are very few extant two-sword disciplines or techniques speaks volumes)
Personally being able block and attack at the same time sounds quite appealing. But that can be accomplished faster and more efficiently with one sword. Every check, parry, step, and guard is a flow from defense to attack and vice versa. And with a non-thinking adversary with no sense of self-preservation or capacity for strategic thought even that is more effort than necessary.
Set up four or five mats in a random pattern. Using two swords, time yourself to see how fast you can properly execute lethal cuts on all the targets. Then try the same exercise with one sword. You'll probably be surprised.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Can you make a blade have a razor edge with the grinding wheel? I never sharpened a blade on one but if so, kudos. I can sharpen my blades to a razor edge as well, but I use a whetstone and it takes me like an hour. It actually takes quite allot of finesse to hold a blade at a constant 5 degree angel for an hour.

Also, I wouldn’t recommend sharpening an ax to a razor edge, those things are designed for abuse and to thin an edge may chip, I believe a 20 or 25 degree angel would do nicely.

Just trying to help.

Yeah, I stopped using the whetstone for a while and lost all skill with it. I used to be pretty good with it. All I use now is my grinding wheel, and yeah a razor edge is all I find acceptable for my blades. I guess a razor edge on my axes was kind of exaggerating. But they are damn sharp.


On the subject of dual-wielding, I've tried it with my katana and wakizashi and didn't like it one bit. It seems too clumsy. I can see it being okay with two shorter swords or machetes, but I guess its just my preference.

[Krazymouse]

Use a
http://www.geekologie.com/2008/01/25/energy-sword-1.jpg
To kill zombies, halo 3 style :)

[mattifikation]

That thing would break.

[Darkness]

"I really don't see what all the fuss is about. I've put a razor-sharp edge on a hunting knife, using only a river rock, the way they use to do it before whetstones were invented. It's not that hard, guys." :lol:

[Lurker13]

When I get a new blade, whether is be an axe or sword, I sharpen it to its fullest cutting potential with my industrial bench grinder. I have sort of an underground business in my town for restoring rusted and dulled blades, so I know a think or two about freakishly sharp blades. In fact, when I joined this forum was about 2 weeks after cutting off my left index finger with a newly sharpened buck knife. I got it re-attached of course.

OUCH! Thats gotta hurt!

[Onslaught]

Onslaught,

So,

Because my favorite sword is the katana and I appreciate ninjitsu that labels me a mall ninja, samurai humper, fanboy that loves everything Japanese because it is Japanese, has no martial art experience and thinks the katana is magical?

I would like to point out that any comments pertaining to character were general and were only meant to apply to those displaying those traits. I am sorry if you took them personally. This discussion has been going on for quite some time and you've jumped in rather late. Many, many uninformed posters have come in here claiming the "virtues" of superior "cutting power", speed, and kitten-healing abilities of the mystical katana. Most of it is hogwash perpetuated by everything from anime to kill bill to max brooks.

You speak of having discussion in a calm, civilized manner and yet you are the one who started with the slander and criticism. They have a word for that and the word is hypocrisy.

I have not slandered anyone. As i said, my statements were non-specific. I'm not sure if you can read back through the archive (I'm not sure if any of the old US&D from before the lockout survives), but there have been many a knucklehead blindly following the cult of katana without ever asking why.

You’re prejudiced, discriminating and narrow-minded point of view is something I will never understand, and I don’t think I want to.

This is exactly how i would describe many of those backing the katana, the whole katana, and only the katana so help them god. All blades are specialized, they all fulfil a specific need. Many can not accept the fact that the katana's (admittedly impressive) abilities are limited and that it's performance can be eclipsed in specific areas by other blades.

By the way, my original post would have had a far different tone/attitude if you had not begun with your derogatory and belittling comments. Why do you resort to name calling. How old are you? Why do you presume to know what I know and what I’m capable of?

I resort to namecalling because there are a legion of samurai obsessed children yammering on and on about katana this and ninjato that. Kids who dont know anything about steel, heat treatment, edge goemetry, or even the mechanics of how a sword works, and they don't care to learn. All they know is "the samurai swordzorz is teh greatest weapon evah!!111!!11!". And all they care to learn consists of the type of thing you posted in your videos. It gets old very quickly.
I don't presume to know that you know anything. When the first comments where made you had not yet shown up. I was commenting on the throngs of ninnies that had come before you. I do find it interesting that you took offense to a broad statement covering mall ninjas, the more you post the less you seem like one. This is the internet, in the future you would be served well by not assuming that random postings are about you personally.

I would like to have a civilized conversation with out such unpleasantness, so I apologize if I was presumptuous or offended yourself or anyone else.

I would also very much like for you to continue to post here. And I am also sorry if i have offended you. In no way did i mean to say that you were a mall ninja or a fanboi, simply that i have no respect for those that are. You must decide on your own if you fall into that group. If my more ascerbic comments do not apply to you, please ignore them.


As for attacking the skull with the katana, it is finely suited for the task. The best way the attack a skull with a katana is to strike with the first 2 inches of the blade. The chisel like tanto tip has something like a second point on its bottom. With all the kinetic energy focused on such a small, pointed surface even a poor quality katana (full tang of course) would have no trouble splitting the hard, yet brittle scull. Also, the tanto tip is designed to pierce armor, so stabbing the skull is much easier compared to other swords.

Allright, this is going to be long...
All will have different plans, systems and techniques. Personally, I plan on moving quickly and quietly. The bladed weapon FOR ME will be a weapon of stealth or last resort. It is an emergency tool that will be used as such. Due to this criteria, it will have to be fairly compact and reasonably light. It must not encumber MY movement and it will not be MY primary weapon. I will not tailor my habits to the blade, it is there for my convenience. It must be short enough to be used in the confines of a hallway when panicking. It MUST be capable of single-strike-incapacitation with as little effort as possible and using one hand. For this task, I have determined that my needs would be best suited by something in he model of the Falcata. About 20"-22" long and 2.5-3 lbs in weight.

I will agree that the tip of the sword would be an excellent place to make contact due to the smaller surface area, and the fact that you are creating more force and speed in the swing by striking further from the point of rotation. I would worry about penetration though, the strike will be shallow and may not destroy enough tissue. A strike with the section of blade 3-4" from the tip may still conserve enough speed and power to do the job. The yokote on a quality sword will not be a "second point on the bottom", the edge will be a nice linear curvature. There will however be a sharp differentiation in the grind.
Personally, I don't find stabbing to be much of an option. It requires far more energy than a swing because it doesn't use physics to your advantage. Stabbing is great for torsos, but the skull is hard and round. Many handgun calibers have been known to deflect if the angle of attack was wrong. The obvious solution of aiming for the eyes becomes difficult when you consider the fact that fine motor control is the first to go when we are stressed and adrenaline kicks in. Please remember, I don't presume to tell anyone what they should do, I simply present facts and my personal ideas based upon them.

A straight sword is better at piercing, a curved sword is better at cutting, a katana is equally good at both because it is curved and has a armor piercing tip.

That depends entirely on the situation. There are too many variables to prove or refute such a broad statement.

I have never seen a tip that could compare with the tanto, if you have please share.

If you want to test how any weapon will fare against a skull, test it on a coconut, they have almost the same characteristics of a skull. I didn’t use one katana in each hand because I only have one (laugh if you will, but it is a heat treated high carbon stainless) but I did use one handed strikes with each hand and a few others, if I were to dual wield, I would use a katana and a wakizashi. I got the same result every time, complete destruction of the coconut. I imagine a straight European sword would have about the same effect since the coconut is more shattered then cut. The downward strikes are the easiest since they are gravity assisted. Even when not implementing the tanto tip, the impact would still be delivered on a relatively small surface since the blade is curved.

A well made, properly HT'd, carbon catana is nothing to laugh at. Let's get this straight... I have nothing against the katana as a weapon for use in it's inteded manner, against the targets it was designed to defeat. It is an exemplary cutting implement. However, I feel that the katana may not be the BEST weapon for this particular task. I have my doubts about using any weapon for a job that it was not intended for. That type of abuse is just begging for breakage. I would never use a rapier against a zombie, I would never use a great claymore against a zombie, I would never use a jian against a zombie. All of these swords would either suffer catastophic damage over the period of use or they would be ineffective enough to get me killed. I believe that he katana would suffer catastrophic damage over long hard use, and be ineffective in situations concerning confined spaces. I do rate it higher than any of the others i've mentioned though. Also, I'm not sure how much the curve of the blade would matter considering that the target is also curved, but i do see your point.

I did this way before I started posting here, so don’t think I went and jumped through your hoops.

That's fine. It was more rhetorcal than anything. I am glad that you did some testing at some point. I would like to see a better skull surrogate emerge though. I have problems with the idea of coconut, I think it's too brittle.

If you don’t have enough room, good footing or whatever for the two handed push pull method you can push on the back of the blade for added torque and your accuracy can be increased because you are guiding the blade much closer to the tip.

To each his own. If you are confident in that technique, by all means, use it.

When I spoke of the speed and power of the katana, I meant it as a comparison to other swords, I can swing a katana a hell of a lot faster than I could a broad sword, the power comes from the speed. I could swing a rapier faster than a katana but it doesn’t have the blade geometry to effectively turn that speed into cutting power.

And of course a sword is no better or worse than the person wielding it.( this is my sword, there are many like it but this one is mine, without me my sword is useless, without my sword I am useless ECT…)

I definitely should have gone into more detail about the forging of the Katana.

If you make a sword of hard steel, it will be sharp and hold an edge but it will be brittle and may chip or even break. If you make a sword from softer, more flexible steel your sword may not break but it won’t be sharp or hold an edge.

The katana smiths realized this and blended the two, a low carbon iron back and core, and a high carbon steel outer skin and edge. The video can explain it a lot better than I can; it also explains how the katana gets its curved shape naturally during quenching because of the clay and charcoal paint.

Once again, while this is nice, it is unneccessary. The traditional methods have been replaced by scientific knowledge. The modern smith gains nothing but a higher price tag by doing this. An extremely good sword can be made from modern monosteel with the proper heat treatment. One great exapmle is Howard Clark's L6 bainite katana. It is considered the pinnacle of performance for the katana, even above and beyond the best traditionally made blades. That is not to say that it is "better" (that is subjective and must be determined by the end user), only that it excells in all physical aspects; cutting, durability, edge holding, etc. If you are looking for a traditionally made blade for use in a martial art that places high value on spirituality, by all means, use a traditional katana. If you are looking for the most advanced and capable katana ever made, get an L-6.

I will say that clay-coat edge quench is extremely neat and not limited to katana. It can be used to create beautiful hammons on any blade with the proper steel (most spectacular results with 1095)

http://web.mac.com/mattlamey/iWeb/Site/Camp%20Knives.html
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8773 tactical orange peeler


This is why I believe the only true katanas are those which are hand crafted. They go for $5,000 to $25,000. Quite a bit more than i can afford.

Any SHTF ready katana would cost you over $1,000. The L6 i mentioned will run in the $5-8,000 range.


As Gufferman pointed out, folding steel hundreds of times would not only hammer out the impurities (such as sulfur) but most of the carbon as well resulting in almost total iron which is exactly what they wanted for the back and core.

The folding of the steel is to evenly spread the carbon content. A dozen or more folds create more than 5,000 layers in the steel, each one supporting the next. You are correct in saying that one mistake during the folding process can ruin the blade, that is why apprenticeship for katana making takes longer than ten years.

While all of that is correct, and the traditionally constructed katana is a work of art, as it relates to zombies, how will any of that help you. What happens if your sword were to break? How easily replaceable is it? Are you capable of making a replacement?

I guess that's what's at the heart of my argument. Katanas are great for what they are, they are magnificent slashing blades capable of taking off limbs and in the right hands, bisecting torsos, and even skulls. However, they are higher maintenance and they do require knowledge of specific technique in order to use them effectively and to protect the blade from damage. The wrong cut on the wrong part at the wrong time can break a blade. The machinegun against the edge of the blade is an impressive display, but that is not the best test of the forces that could actually harm a sword in use. Lateral forces against the side of the blade have destroyed many a quality sword. It may be smarter to go with a blade that cvan take more punishment and keep out of the way a little better. Having a katana whanging around at your side while avoiding the hungry dead seems awkward at best. Carry on the back is not an option. Try it with a katana, without cheating, and you'll see why.

By the way, don’t put words in my mouth.

you can find the full version on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwQqtf86qOc

I thought this was pretty cool, a katana taking on a 50. cal, check out the slow motion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sHTJAKN-5k

Why thank you. That was a much better, more well thought out post. I really have nothing against anyone who comes in here with an open mind and a willingness to look at all of the information.

My comments are in red.

As far as testing goes, i have found this site, http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/ interesting from time to time. Many of their tests are fluff like waterbottle cutting, but some are particularly brutal.

Allright, that's the last of the books...

[Dave Of The Dead]

OUCH! Thats gotta hurt!

Yeah, luckily I have this wonderful thing called pain delay so I didn't feel it until they stuck the IV drip into me to sew it back on.

[KrimsonKing]

I suppose I took your comments personally because it was on the same page as my post and was referring to some of the things in it and it was being lumped into a stereotyped group that I had, up until now, never heard of. I skimmed the whole thread and found 3 or 4 that met the ‘’criteria’’, I have yet to see the legion of yammering children, but the net is a big place and I understand what you mean

You can’t really say that all your statements were none specific (if you write someone’s name, then something below that it’s pretty specific). Now that I understand where you are coming from the whole wall banging line would have sounded extremely, what’s the word… Oh yea mallninjaish, and would have undoubtedly fed your fire. As for the videos I admit they are very bias, but they did have relative info considering my posts. The 50.cal vid was just for fun.

I believe it to be a miscommunication. Okay; I’ve said my piece on the unpleasantness, hopefully for the last time.

As you said there are many katana tips, just as there are many types of katana, I was just referring to my personal favorite, I’m sure you know what I mean when I say chisel tip. As for striking with the first two inches I stand by it for the weapon I will be using. I did not say to strike the first two inches of the skull, once the tip has penetrated the rest of the blade following in its wake would have no problem.

As for stabbing directly into scull bone I agree that more energy is expended than if you were to swing, but would you agree that a straight line is the fastest way to get from point a to point b?
As for targeting all the small ‘’soft’’ targets that for me personally is not a problem. The only way I know how to fight is by targeting small, weak spots that are located all over the body, such as all the ones that can kill a zombie.
As for adrenalin in a hand to hand/melee combat, I ****ING FEED OFF THAT SHIT.
It sharpens my reflexes
It sharpens my senses
It makes me stronger
It makes me faster
On this subject I know what I’m talking about, I’ve had my fair share of real fights. Friendly sparring or even a serious competitive match, you won’t get anything close to the affects of a real fight. The blood pulsing in your temples, your core shaking with so much energy just waiting for you to give the command to explode. All my muscles become hard; it’s like flexing without trying. When in this temporarily state of fight or flight, pain is dulled. The human body can do amazing things when pushed to the edge.

However shooting on a rush could be bad; I never had any adrenaline shooting because everything I’ve shot never shot back so I can’t say. Paint balling and air soft is like sparring
.
As for a curved blade striking a curved surface, wouldn’t that just mean the point of impact is even smaller?

Do you know of any forums/sites that discuss modern day steels and alloys, including heat treating, carbon content, ductile/brittleness and microstructures? I can’t find much.

I have looked falcatas and other kukri like weapons and I don’t have any doubts of their cutting power. The only problems I have with them is you cant stab with them and they are to nose heavy for my taste,if you miss you might be thrown wide and recovery time may be an issue.

[Onslaught]

I would say that a straight line is the shortest. But when we're talking about fight mechanics, the shorter strikes, like jabs and straight kicks, are usually weaker. That is not to say that stabbing is completely ineffectual, just that you have a better chance of a one-hit-stop with a swing. The other advantage against zombies is that when stabbing for the brain, your blade has to make it past the outstretched arms, a swing will either bypass or bisect them.

I know adrenaline well. From hunting to paintball, I know the feeling. I have found that it does hop me up, but it can create a tendancy toward tunnelvision.

Curved blade striking curved object will have less surface area than straight on curved, but the difference will depend on the exact curvature of the objects in question, and most likely be negligible considering that we are talking about a knifes edge And the realtively broad curvature of the katana or falcata's blade.

One of the best sites i've found is Bladeforums.com Any info that you can't find there can be found through links stemming from there and the makers who frequent those forums. I especially like posts by Kevin Cashen, Ariel salaverria, and Dan Gray. Tim zowada is also incredibly impressive, though he doesn't post much.

The variants of the falcata/khukri design are many. It often seems tha no two are ever alike. I prefer the style that is not quite so hooked as the traditional khukri, but still weight forward. More like the "yataghan" from Dervish Knives. http://dervishknives.com/yataghan.htm
The yataghan is a bit too straight for me, but you get the idea. I'll be forging one out along with a few other trinkets if i ever get my garage clean enough to work out there.(need to get the heater working too, it's 19* out there!)
Recovery and followup as they relate to weight distribution will have to be addressed during construction. This will drive the curvature of the blade and the center of balance. It will be a custom tailored piece that will likely live out it's days as a camp implement, but hey I might as well engineer it for zombies. You know what they say, "If you can survive zombies, you can survive anything!".

I just looked back to see that this thread only goes back to 3-29-08. That's a shame, there were many great posts and discussions before that time.

[Dave Of The Dead]

You actually can stab with most kukris. I have trained myself with one and I effing love it, as most of you already know. I read an article that most decapitations by kurkis were by the soldier thrusting the blade into the gut of his attacker then as they doubled over, cutting their head off. This wouldn't work on a zombie however, this was just a written account from a soldier.
On a fun side note, I found a Kukri on the internet that has a 3ft long blade and weighs almost 16lbs!

[kiltedninja]

Well, many of you i seems, favor katana and euro swords.
I am favorable to straight machetes, thick ones, sticks, and knives.
I'm five years strong in Arnis, so I'm at home with close quarters, hard and fast stick and knife fighting. Take one look at my arms, shins, knuckles, and face and you'll know that I've been doing this for a long time.

Now, a katana is made of two different steels, the outer steel is much softer, and will dull quickly if it's not properly cared for. My brother spent many years in Iaido and Kendo, and as such had to learn to care for a katana. Very much work was put into that. If you're really looking for a sword you can wail on, go for something of European make, they're much sturdier. Kukris are also good, if you can find a sturdy one, than you're set, they're not hard to use, but difficult to master, the makings of a good weapon.

The ninjato is a favorite of mine just because they look cool. Like I said, I'm at home with knives and sticks or short, straight machetes and swords.

[Gummerfan]

Has anybody mentioned Falchions yet?

[kiltedninja]

A falchion could be incredibly effective. The western steel, the eastern curve, a single handed weapon, I can't believe that no one's thought of that.

[Darkness]

"Always remember, how tall you are, your arm length, your body mass, and your strength, should all figure in, when deciding which blade you want to learn, and what skill style you wish to know how to do."

[kiltedninja]

Well, considering that most eastern asians are small, wiry fellow, I'd think that a tall wiry fellow like myself could wield most of their weapons rather effectively.

[bandits1]

Once again, I like this blade:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7361/sword04pl2.jpg
...the "Tactical Sword" by MacKenzie Knives...mostly because it's cool-lookin'.

[Dave Of The Dead]

I would love to see a guy like me, a 6'3" skinny-as-a-rail, person use a great sword or some crazy weapon that weighs 10lbs. That's why I like to use light weapons that have to do more with tactical strikes than just brute force. Hence my training with a Kukri, machete, and a little bit of experience with the katana. I would also love to invest in a cold steel Gim sword. Light weight with reach and every edge is used for cutting.

[mattifikation]

Once again, I like this blade:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7361/sword04pl2.jpg
...the "Tactical Sword" by MacKenzie Knives...mostly because it's cool-lookin'.

That sword is indeed cool looking, but I wouldn't want a sword that doesn't have a handguard (terminology?) to prevent your hand from slipping down the blade during a stab.

Especially if that blade has zombie blood on it.

[kiltedninja]

It depends on your build and familiarity with blades, great swords and the like were uor tsased by men who were often quite stout, or tall and muscular, generally at the arms and chest.

The Japanese, they were often quite the warriors, working the trunk, legs, back, all of it, and that's where the legendary cutting power of the samurai comes from, their power and ingenuity.

The slightly more western asians (Chinese, Thai, filipino, those sorts) favored the wiry type of build in their warriors, which is how you get arts like Sanda kung fu(Very brutal), Muay Thai, Pradal Serey, Kalariprayattu, who work with lighter, faster, often double edged swords. These are my favorite, the quick, accurate strokes that can end lives quickly. Those, however, could only be useful in the hands of a trained person. If you've got relatively little training, go for a sturdier weapon, that's what I think.

[mattifikation]

Is a lightsaber a blade?

[Nameless1]

Just a thought but aren't most of the katanas sold now a days too brittle for zombie killing?

[Gummerfan]

I would love to see a guy like me, a 6'3" skinny-as-a-rail, person use a great sword or some crazy weapon that weighs 10lbs.
There were no swords that weighed 10 lbs. :roll: There were huge heavy swords called "parade swords" oe "bearing swords", but they were strictly for ceremonial use and never for combat.

[Darkness]

Is a lightsaber a blade?

"The discussion about 'Light Sabers' is in this thread......."
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16748
"Enjoy!" :)

[voyager]

There were no swords that weighed 10 lbs. :roll: There were huge heavy swords called "parade swords" oe "bearing swords", but they were strictly for ceremonial use and never for combat.

+1

Here is an article giving examples of what Gummerfan stated.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm

[mattifikation]

So who makes a good, practical sword that you could really use, but doesn't charge an arm and a leg for it? I hear good things about Cold Steel, but are there other options? Are there cheaper options where you still get an actual sword and not a wall hanger?

[kiltedninja]

Well actually, Cold steel will only charge you a few fingers.

Sword making is not a very profitable business, that's why they're so expensive.

[Bob]

Have you seen the torture test video's for cold steel products?

[Nameless1]

So who makes a good, practical sword that you could really use, but doesn't charge an arm and a leg for it? I hear good things about Cold Steel, but are there other options? Are there cheaper options where you still get an actual sword and not a wall hanger?

I hear Paul Chen makes a good sword, does both Western and Eastern never owned one myself though.

[kiltedninja]

I forgot about chen. his are a little cheaper at times then Cold Steel's.
Yes, I've seen the torture tests for Cold Steel.

[Bob]

The dvds get kind of repetitive but are worth watching.

[kiltedninja]

I've got a Finn Bear from them, I'm thinking of getting an AK-47.

Anyway, since we're getting a bit off topic, let me make a suggestion:

If you have a wall piece, I've done this with a few cheap katana, you break the handle and rat tang, tape up the handle, and take a metal phial to the blade, give it more of an edge, and you have something that is useable.
I prefer to use 550 cord over the tape, but that's just me.

[Dave Of The Dead]

There were no swords that weighed 10 lbs. :roll: There were huge heavy swords called "parade swords" oe "bearing swords", but they were strictly for ceremonial use and never for combat.

If a hand and a half sword weighs about 6lbs, then what do you think a claymore would weigh?

[kiltedninja]

Hand and a half swords aren't that heavy, they're closer to three or four pounds.

I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but what about a kodachi? It's a sword that's basicallly the difference between a wakizashi(Companion sword) and a katana, it has a slightly straighter blade than a wakizashi, it was designed for carry by merchants and other civilians, because it was illegal for anyone who wasn't Samurai class to carry the Katana and Wakizashi(Also called a Daisho, lit, Big & small). Historically, these were also believed to be used by ninja more than the ninjato, as the ninja were often disguised as merchants and farmers.

Cold Steel has a reasonable rendition of it. Check the Warrior series katana, the Chisa katana is basically a kodachi.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Here's a question for you. Would you rather have a blade with both a piercing tip with chopping capabilities, or a more blunt/ flat tip with even better chopping power? Examples would be:
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_2034_18498095
as opposed to:
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_2034_18471590

[mattifikation]

I'd take the piercing and the chopping. You might get into situations where you don't have room for a chopping swing.

[Krazymouse]

Chopping. You have to take the head off and the piercing will just stab their brain. If you stab the head of a zombie, you are probably gonna run into a skull and take maybe 2-3 seconds to penetrate. By then you'll be a zed.

There is only one place to find genuine swords in this world..... Japan. :)

[Dave Of The Dead]

I agree with the need for chopping power over piercing. If you are in a situation where there is not room to chop, then you are in a situation where a blade is pretty much useless. This might depend on the blade itself though. You might find yourself wielding a Hand and a Half sword and having no room to swing, though a 2' machete blade will be more useful than ever. When I think of blades in the ZPAW, I'm thinking of short-blade machetes rather than katanas or longswords, which is a lot more realistic to most people. Yeah, I own a katana, but I would never try using it against the undead when I have a perfectly good hand crafted kukri on my belt. Sometimes the smaller and more agile tools get the job done better than a hulking rarity from the middle-ages.

[mattifikation]

Stabbing the neck will cut the nerves off as effectively as chopping off the whole head. plus, stabbing gives you advantage over zombies wearing kevlar... remember the police and army will be among the first to go.

[kiltedninja]

Good point. The Kevlar vests are bullet proof, but not stab proof, if you were to come up against zombies who were police, SWAT or National Guard, than they'd likely be wearing vests and helmets, your best bet would be to decapitate them. With a wide enough blade, a stab through the neck, or if you have a position where you could sever the spinal column, than you're set.

That's not true, what about the country's that still use swords, like Thailand and the Phillipines? Kalariprayattu, Thai sword fighting uses real swords in their training, the Filipino Marines use Arnis as their Close quarters fighting style. They use a sword, not a machete. Also, what of the swords in China? There was use of the Dao all the way up to the 40's, and what of the practical use swords made all over the world? Cold Steel and Paul Chen swords are both based out of America.

Once again, I'd prefer both a machete or short sword, and a knife, since I have both, I'm good.

[mattifikation]

I think I'd go for a really big honking bowie knife. Chopping and stabbing in one package. I know the range is limited, but I'd be more concerned with keeping my load light.

[Dave Of The Dead]

That's not true, what about the country's that still use swords, like Thailand and the Phillipines? Kalariprayattu, Thai sword fighting uses real swords in their training, the Filipino Marines use Arnis as their Close quarters fighting style. They use a sword, not a machete. Also, what of the swords in China? There was use of the Dao all the way up to the 40's, and what of the practical use swords made all over the world? Cold Steel and Paul Chen swords are both based out of America.

Because a lot of people don't have zombie on the brain like us. A lot of people won't be buying swords for practical purposes and more for decorations. Plus, these practical swords have an internet based supplier, not an actual street-side store. You won't be able to obtain these swords after an outbreak unless you stumble across their warehouse.

[kiltedninja]

True, or if you happen upon one of the stores that sells them, I know that Excalibur cutlery generally have a decent supply of real swords. I've seen quite a few Paul Chen swords at the Excalibur store here.

But yeah, I wouldn't go hunting for a sword after the outbreak occurs, I'd get one that you could have from the start. Regardless of where I am, I'm hitting my house when Z-day hits.

[the_velociraptor]

I keep hearing that Blue Steel sucks, even though, apparently, their kukris are pretty good.

Are they?

[Darkness]

"I guess I have ONE advantage. I know a professional Sword Maker, who would make me anything I want, as long as I can pay for it. And all of his work is top quality." :)

[Dave Of The Dead]

I keep hearing that Blue Steel sucks, even though, apparently, their kukris are pretty good.

Are they?

You mean Cold Steel? It really depends on what you look at there. Their machetes are good for their price. Get on youtube and look up the cold steel destruction tests. It takes a lot to break those things. Their actual swords are expensive as hell and therefore I have not purchased one yet. They seem very durable and I have read nothing but good reviews about them.


Darkness, my uncle is a carpenter, gunsmith, and is just now getting into blacksmithing. He started out making mandolins, then muzzle-loaders, and now he makes throwing knives with his home-made forge that he constructed out of a propane tank. Its freaking awesome to see how he works and how much effort he puts into this stuff. I look at it, if you make your own sword and pour your hear and soul into it, its basically priceless.

[Darkness]

Darkness, my uncle is a carpenter, gunsmith, and is just now getting into blacksmithing. He started out making mandolins, then muzzle-loaders, and now he makes throwing knives with his home-made forge that he constructed out of a propane tank. Its freaking awesome to see how he works and how much effort he puts into this stuff. I look at it, if you make your own sword and pour your hear and soul into it, its basically priceless.

"Totally!" :)

[mattifikation]

Oh man, I wish I had my own home-made forge. I'd probably never once crank out anything useful (It's a hard enough skill to learn as it is, and I'm naturally incompetent at that sort of work as well,) but oh so cool it would be to say, "Yeah, so after work today I think I'll put in some time at the forge. Start a fire, pound on some steel, beat things with a hammer... relieve some stress."

Sadly, I lack three important things...

1. The money
2. The know-how
3. A place to put it

[the_velociraptor]

@Dave - Some guy busted up his Cold Steel knife, but that's one opinion out of many. There's a hatchet I saw somewhere in a knife mag, claimed it coulld slice through a kevlar helmet.

[mattifikation]

There's a video on youtube somewhere of a guy who thinks he's proving that Cold Steel knives are bad.

In his tests, he beats directly on the edge of the knife with a large axe. When that fails to accomplish any more than nicking the blade, he shoots it. Twice.

Apparently, those results didn't exceed his expectations. They sure went above and beyond mine, though. Any knife that can withstand an axe sounds like a good knife to me.

[Darkness]

There's a video on youtube somewhere of a guy who thinks he's proving that Cold Steel knives are bad.

In his tests, he beats directly on the edge of the knife with a large axe. When that fails to accomplish any more than nicking the blade, he shoots it. Twice.

Apparently, those results didn't exceed his expectations. They sure went above and beyond mine, though. Any knife that can withstand an axe sounds like a good knife to me.

"I have to agree with that. That sure does sound like a well made blade." :)

[Dave Of The Dead]

@Dave - Some guy busted up his Cold Steel knife, but that's one opinion out of many. There's a hatchet I saw somewhere in a knife mag, claimed it coulld slice through a kevlar helmet.

If you seriously look around on the web, and especially youtube, then you can find so many reviews about Cold Steel. These destruction tests are amazing. Some of these videos combine to almost one hour of a guy just trying everything possible to destry a cold steel product. These other people who say CS's products suck and start shooting at their blades to get results are ridiculous. www.knifetests.com (http://www.knifetests.com) is a good place to see the good reviews and tests.

[kiltedninja]

Kevlar is good for keeping bullets out of your skin up to a certain caliber and speed, but it's not indestructible, I've seen a 7.62 round put through a helmet, as well as a knife.

But seriously, if a knife could withstand an axe on the blade and still function, then it's safe to say that it's a damn good knife. I just got a Cold Steel Recon-1, the locking system is a little different, but it's a good knife.

[Onslaught]

Here's a question for you. Would you rather have a blade with both a piercing tip with chopping capabilities, or a more blunt/ flat tip with even better chopping power? Examples would be:
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_2034_18498095
as opposed to:
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_2034_18471590


Chopping. Piercing at close range is what pistols are for.

[joerrrrrr]

I myself would go with trench spikes, non serrated. but i also have this sweet knife that has a western style revolver handle ( a mini gunblade for those of you who have played FF8).

[kiltedninja]

Chopping. Piercing at close range is what pistols are for.

I'd go for the piercing, as it does still have a chopping capability.

[Dave Of The Dead]

I myself would go with trench spikes, non serrated. but i also have this sweet knife that has a western style revolver handle ( a mini gunblade for those of you who have played FF8).

Would you really want to get close enough to use any one of those two weapons? I have one of those knives that looks like a revolver and its like 3 inches long. That is not something I would trust my life on. If it wasn't designed to slash or chop, I won't be taking it. Besides, any kind of knife should be the very last thing you should resort to in combat and should be preceded by a quality sword, machete, or axe.

[EvilWeasel35]

I think I'd go with a machete or sabre type weapon over a pointed one. I like the slashing! :)

I'd really like a properly made folded steel Samuri, not one of the replicas, but they cost about £5000. Plus the UK has stopped anyone buying knives and swords now too. You can only get them if they are antiques. This country is soooo going to let us down if the :poo: hits the fan! :x

[Redfields]

Honestly, I would not mind owning a katana, proven by many it does not get "stuck" halfway, it cleanly slices the limbs off with your right hand pushing forward and your left pulling inwards like a fluid movement with your blade following through (if you are right-handed). A good thing about it is that the katana and swords in the same category are layered many times and classed a 'nimble' blades where you can cut through things with least amount of resistance. With this is mind, you would get tired slower.

Other than that, I disagree on the machete or kitchen knives and butcher knives. Although you see these cutting meat and such. You will be facing zombies front on. You do not have a board to lean the "meat" against and chop downwards (Yes, maybe you will easily hack into the first few but, you get tired pretty quickly if you hack and slash that many times). This makes these kinds of blades not very effective at all.

-Redfields

[JimiVengeance]

i have actually been a collecter of pocket knivess since i was little but my favorite is the switchblade i recently purchased which is the knife the joker uses in the dark knight!

[Dave Of The Dead]

Honestly, I would not mind owning a katana, proven by many it does not get "stuck" halfway, it cleanly slices the limbs off with your right hand pushing forward and your left pulling inwards like a fluid movement with your blade following through (if you are right-handed). A good thing about it is that the katana and swords in the same category are layered many times and classed a 'nimble' blades where you can cut through things with least amount of resistance. With this is mind, you would get tired slower.

Other than that, I disagree on the machete or kitchen knives and butcher knives. Although you see these cutting meat and such. You will be facing zombies front on. You do not have a board to lean the "meat" against and chop downwards (Yes, maybe you will easily hack into the first few but, you get tired pretty quickly if you hack and slash that many times). This makes these kinds of blades not very effective at all.

-Redfields

since when do you cut meat with a machete?

[Redfields]

since when do you cut meat with a machete?

Mmm true haha... Well, my point was you have more chance of getting 'stuck' and tired when hacking and slashing with a machete. But nonetheless, better than a Butcher Knife. Do not believe too much in Dead Rising haha.

I want to lift and throw park benches like Frank West :evil:

[Darkness]

I want to lift and throw park benches like Frank West :evil:

"OH! So you like blunt weighty toys, huh?" :evil:

"Then you might find the following Thread of interest." :)
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15797

[mattifikation]

Dead Rising... oh man, that game was good but there's a bunch of things that could have been done differently. For starters, the katana blade... that thing broke WAY too fast. Must have been a replica?

And did anyone else ever notice how awesome a weapon the broom was after the brush part broke off?

Oh yeah. Blades and zombies... wait, I did talk about blades in this post. Muahaha. Totally on topic. :-)

[Ball Tripper]

I don't know if I've said it before but I think I would prefer some type of improvised spear, especially if i'm going up against slow zombies. Hacking somebody apart is messy people, and you should try to keep in mind that zombies are CONTAGIOUS. So in my way of thinking, distance is always going to be best when killing them. If I have to go into melee, the couple feet that a spear is going to give me would be pretty valuable. I won't be able to hack through a horde of zombies. But I will be able to cleanly and efficiently kill shamblers at reasonable speed with a solid thrust to the face and not get myself covered in zombie blood or scratched by rotten undead fingernails in the process.

[Darkness]

I don't know if I've said it before but I think I would prefer some type of improvised spear, especially if i'm going up against slow zombies. Hacking somebody apart is messy people, and you should try to keep in mind that zombies are CONTAGIOUS. So in my way of thinking, distance is always going to be best when killing them. If I have to go into melee, the couple feet that a spear is going to give me would be pretty valuable. I won't be able to hack through a horde of zombies. But I will be able to cleanly and efficiently kill shamblers at reasonable speed with a solid thrust to the face and not get myself covered in zombie blood or scratched by rotten undead fingernails in the process.

"If that is what you are interested in, try the following thread." ;-)
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15796
"Enjoy!" :)

[Ball Tripper]

ahh thanks you. It seems others agree with me about the virtues of having some range even in melee. :D

[Redfields]

"OH! So you like blunt weighty toys, huh?" :evil:

"Then you might find the following Thread of interest." :)
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15797

O_O okies then

[Dave Of The Dead]

Time to resurrect this thread. Now, where would you look for a reliable blade *before* the Zombie Apocalypse? It doesn't matter if its over the internet or an actual store. Go for it. Everyone will prefer ColdSteel of course, but what else? Kukri House is also a great place for handmade, custom kukris.

[Darkness]

"My 'costume' blades, I buy off the merchant tables at the costume conventions, but even then I'm picky." :roll:

"As for true 'fighting' blades, I have a couple of Armorurs or 'Blacksmiths' by which I can get whatever I want made, for the right price." :evil:

"And yes, I am talking about blades made right." :)

[Dave Of The Dead]

I bought a couple Wal-Mart machetes the other day just for kicks. First of all, I can barely get them sharp. The metal is so cheap, once I get an edge, It disappears even after chopping down a corn stalk. I didn't expect to get a quality blade, but I also didn't expect such a crappy one. The thing bends when you swing it for christ sakes! I think I'll just hang them on my wall for decoration and when the zeds come, hand them out to people who I know are useless.

[detpat]

good steel, good no nonsense design. start out by handling several. even of the same design and maker. sometimes one particular example will just "feel" good, better than the others. that happens with any personal sort of implement like knives or guns.

don't buy anything too complicated or flamboyant. the more silliness you get the lower the quality. Although i have seen really good quality put into an idiotic design, that's fairly rare.

a good sheath is also necessary. the same rules apply to this as overcomplicated blades. stay fairly simple and you can't go wrong. One of my favorite knives is a roach belly i got about 15 years ago for F&I reenactment. very simple blade design and execution, but has done so many chores i can't begin to remember it all.

[Dave Of The Dead]

good steel, good no nonsense design. start out by handling several. even of the same design and maker. sometimes one particular example will just "feel" good, better than the others. that happens with any personal sort of implement like knives or guns.

don't buy anything too complicated or flamboyant. the more silliness you get the lower the quality. Although i have seen really good quality put into an idiotic design, that's fairly rare.

a good sheath is also necessary. the same rules apply to this as overcomplicated blades. stay fairly simple and you can't go wrong. One of my favorite knives is a roach belly i got about 15 years ago for F&I reenactment. very simple blade design and execution, but has done so many chores i can't begin to remember it all.

Yes! I'll add one thing to what you said about design: Do some research, and I know it sounds a little like a chore, but its not. Find a style that you think looks like a winner and then research it. I'm sure that everyone knows that I like kukris not only because they look sexy as hell, but because they have the best chopping capabilities in a machete I have ever seen/smelled/tasted. Now what does this have to do with researching? Well the style of the kukri has been around for... well... a very very long time. Thousands of years maybe, I don't know. Why do you think this is? Because it works. Now the handle is all up to you and what you feel comfortable with also.

Like Detpat said, the sheath should be as simple as possible. If it takes actual effort to pull the blade out, or a certain angle or whatever, get a new sheath. I have to wiggle my kukri out of its sheath because the wood warped inside on its way over from Nepal, or maybe they just screwed up a little. Good blade, bad sheath. When possible, get a sturdy sheath also. Something that is rigid and won't flop around to get caught on a tree or bush or fence. The last thing you want is to be hanging up-side-down from a tree stand by your sheath... especially in the ZPAW. :scare:

[detpat]

outstanding advice!

[kiltedninja]

My machete isn't so much a machete, it's one of those sword shaped pieces of 440 steel with an edge that they try to pass off as a ninja sword. I found it, and it has a good chopping edge, that's why I kept the thing.

In terms of a combat knife, I have a CRKT First Strike, which is a piece of steel wrapped in cord. I believe the steel is AUS 4, or 8. Anywho, this thing is solid, holds an edge well, and is already damn sharp.

The machete though, is my main focus, I hope to get a Latin style machete from Cold Steel, they're a size and weight I'm very familiar with thanks to my Kali training.

Also, for those who want to buy Cold Steel items for a little less than normal, go to a site called www.Ltspecpro.com, there's discount prices on everything, a friend told me about the site, so I figured I'd pay it forward.

[Dave Of The Dead]

My machete isn't so much a machete, it's one of those sword shaped pieces of 440 steel with an edge that they try to pass off as a ninja sword. I found it, and it has a good chopping edge, that's why I kept the thing.

In terms of a combat knife, I have a CRKT First Strike, which is a piece of steel wrapped in cord. I believe the steel is AUS 4, or 8. Anywho, this thing is solid, holds an edge well, and is already damn sharp.

The machete though, is my main focus, I hope to get a Latin style machete from Cold Steel, they're a size and weight I'm very familiar with thanks to my Kali training.

Also, for those who want to buy Cold Steel items for a little less than normal, go to a site called www.Ltspecpro.com, there's discount prices on everything, a friend told me about the site, so I figured I'd pay it forward.

Good choices. Thanks for the site, I was just ready to order some new equipment form CS. I'll have to check its credibility first.

[homelitexl]

does a chainsaw count aas a blade

[Dave Of The Dead]

does a chainsaw count aas a blade

I think it is as much as a blade and a crowbar is a mace. To do so, you would also have to say an edge trimmer and a lawnmower are blades as well. Technically, they have blades. If there isn't a thread about power tools being used against the undead, than I guess this might be place to put that. Or you could just start that thread.

[homelitexl]

right im sure it counts as a blade because it is sharp edged and it cuts

[kiltedninja]

right im sure it counts as a blade because it is sharp edged and it cuts

So does a shovel. But that's called the blade of a shovel...

Damn.

It's essentially the same site as the Coldsteel site, and it's not too much cheaper, like 20% or so. It seems credible to me.

I prefer the blades I have, though I'd like for an actual machete. A decent one too.

[mattifikation]

Right. So... 10 dollar McChete from Wal-Mart is definitely out of the equation...

[kiltedninja]

McSuck is more like it. Those things are useless.

I've got my eye on Cold Steel's Latin Style machetes, I hope my paycheck comes before the ZPAW does.

[bandits1]

I like this one from Strider:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1050/psk2032.jpg

[detpat]

ol Mr Berger charges an arm and a leg for his stuff.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Oh yeah, Special Projects is legit. I just ordered a kukri magnum machete from there. I bent my Wally World Machete testing it out of a piece of clay... CLAY! I use it as a wall hanger now.

[kiltedninja]

Wally's is a good place to buy some stuff, but their outdoor gear isn't up to snuff.

I was shown the site by a friend who's big on CS gear, so I figured Special Projects would be legit.

[homelitexl]

what about a weedeater

[J Dub]

i love blades as much as the next and still have a few decent ones kicking around.
my list of preferred blades in order are...
-6ft battle axe
-authentic long sword
-katana
-gurka
-machete

here's a few from my smith & wesson collection

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj123/jonwaite/SW2-1.jpg

[Bob]

Them damned old Ritis brothers have pretty much caused me to not have any big blades.

[homelitexl]

ill sell you a chainsaw for 20$ man come on its just as good

[Bob]

Ok Homelite as long as you are around to pull the cord for me.
It's my left shoulder that is bad so I can't get a stable platform to start one.

Fortunately I can still support a rifle/shotgun with my left arm.
IF I had to absorb the recoil with my left shoulder I would be hosed.

[homelitexl]

unless your left handed your shoulder shouldn't hurt you when you run it or with the right suppies in theory you could build an electric start.

[Onslaught]

I'd go for the piercing, as it does still have a chopping capability.

Let's see some rapier chopping.

My ideal weapon is something between a falcata and a kukri. About 18-20" long and weighing in at around 2 lb. Stabbing would be an option, but chopping would be it's forte. I figure it's light enough that I'll keep it with me and short enough to swing in a hallway. I don't think I have to tell the folks here about the chopping effectiveness of a kukri style blade.

Time to resurrect this thread. Now, where would you look for a reliable blade *before* the Zombie Apocalypse? It doesn't matter if its over the internet or an actual store. Go for it. Everyone will prefer ColdSteel of course, but what else? Kukri House is also a great place for handmade, custom kukris.

I'll build a door for my forge and hammer one out of a leaf spring. I've got some 1095 and some 1084, but the leaf spring looks to be 5160 and I think it would make a better chopper. Really need to get that forge on it's feet soon.

[detpat]

the diamond crossection of a rapier won't allow chop cutting, but a chopping stroke WILL break bones easily. additionally, you can use the tip of a rapier for tip cuts, these can produce a six inch long and 3 inch deep cut! I wouldn't expect tip cuts to have much effect on a zed. otoh a rapier thrust will penetrate a skull with GREAT ease and won't stick.

I wouldn't carry a rapier in a zpaw because of the bulk of the compound guard and it's potential of snagging on everything. a cut and thrust blade would be much more practical in this instance.

[homelitexl]

a frined just gave me a ww2 japanese officers sword.

[Dave Of The Dead]

I just received my first piece of Cold Steel gear yesterday. I got a Magnum Kukri Machete and I will tell you now that it is probably the most bad ass blade I own now. I sharpened it with my whetstone right after opening the package and got it razor sharp in just a few strokes. I haven't "really" tested it out, but I shaved some hair off my arm with it so thats promising. You know with those walmart blades you can basically fold it in half with your bare hands? I can put all my strength into trying to bend the CS blade and get nowhere. I'm impressed. The sheath wouldn't let go of the machete the first few times right out of the box though, but it has loosened up a bit since. I give 5 stars and a big cheesey grin to CS.

[Bob]

I carry a Cold Steel 4" Voyager in my pocket every day.
I like their folding knives and have several.

[homelitexl]

well ill keep my japanese officer sword, fir my blade.

[UseYourHeadAndYourMachtte]

i would choose my 15th century sword my machette or my samurai sword perferably my samurai sword though

[kiltedninja]

I'd choose an OKC3S at the end of an AR15.

[bandits1]

Short sword and tanto point combat knife by Knives By Mace of Laurel Rock Forge LLC:

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9913/vitale10sword.jpg

[kiltedninja]

My machete looks like the top one, but the handle's considerably shorter, there's a little piece that's supposed to be a handguard, and the blades are black. I use it as a machete because it's not much of a sword.

[mattifikation]

Bandits, those are going to be crap. They don't have anything to prevent your hand from slipping down the blade. You'd cut your hand on something you just cut a zombie with... you know where that leads.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Bandits, those are going to be crap. They don't have anything to prevent your hand from slipping down the blade. You'd cut your hand on something you just cut a zombie with... you know where that leads.

Usually when they use wrapped cord as a handle, they use something this will make it harder for your hand to slip. Granted, there is still the possibility, but unless you're thrusting or stabbing into a very very hard and immovable surface, your hands are unlikely to slip down to the blade.

[bandits1]

Usually when they use wrapped cord as a handle, they use something this will make it harder for your hand to slip. Granted, there is still the possibility, but unless you're thrusting or stabbing into a very very hard and immovable surface, your hands are unlikely to slip down to the blade.
Agreed. But perhaps mattifikation doesn't have a very strong grip - in that case, yes, I'd recommend something with a guard on it.

[hotlead]

I think what Mattification is thinking about is when the thing gets all bloody, if you've ever been big game hunting and dressed a harvest, then you know the handle of your knife gets all slimy and greasey from blood and other stuff.

I've seen a few guys cut their hands and fingers with gooey knives from the handle being slippery with a not enough guard or no guard at all, and the wounds got bad infections real fast.

If you're gonna kill a Z with a knife or sword you have to stab it in the head, you could decafinate it with a sword or machete, but the head would still be "alive". Decafinate a few zeds and excaliber will start to get pretty slimy, then when you need to do some stabbing, you'll be wanting a handguard.

[Darkness]

"Psssst.....hotlead.......it's 'decaPitate', not 'decaFinate'." ;-)

[NotoriousDIT]

I'd prefer a solid bludgeon over anything, blades being a second choice.

[hotlead]

"Psssst.....hotlead.......it's 'decaPitate', not 'decaFinate'." ;-)

HA!!.......our sharp-eyed Mods don't miss a thing :clap::)

[NotoriousDIT]

actually, given the context, that was a pretty hilarious typo.

[mattifikation]

Yes. 10 Internets for the amazing typo.

Anyways... I think a skull counts as a hard object, and yes I was referring to how a slippery a blood covered weapon can get.

And no, I don't have a very strong grip. I'm an Internet nerd. My finger muscles are built for typing speed. :-p

[The Voice Of Desperation]

Personally I wouldn't use a close range weapon (not very strong and I don't have much of a grip) but if I had to I would use a hatchet because it's the only melee weapon I own. (well my dad owns...)

[Dave Of The Dead]

If you really want to kick some ass with a blade, then you need to wear some nice, non-slip work gloves. I have a pair made for chainsaw operators. They've saved me a couple fingers.

[kiltedninja]

I have my hunting gloves(though I don't hunt), they're fairly warm, and they don't slip. And even then, I have a strong grip from rock climbing and Jujutsu.

If you're using a blade, I'd suggest you get a shield, for several reasons.

1) They're handy for keeping distance between you and Zack.
2) A good shield can be used as a weapon.
3) You could use it as a sled to carry your gear or an injured(not infected) person in an emergency.

I'm looking at getting a shield, something like a Hoplon(greek shield) They'd be worth their weight to me.

[Birdman44]

I want a riot shield. It's light weight and meant to keep raving lunatics away from the wearer. I think it can hold its own against zeds.

[Dave Of The Dead]

I want a riot shield. It's light weight and meant to keep raving lunatics away from the wearer. I think it can hold its own against zeds.

Yeah, but you can't do much damage with it. I think it would be a little too light for me and a little too big. I work at Subway, and I think I'll get fasten a handle and strap to one of our bread pans when the time comes. That way I'll have a nice little 12"x24" metal shield that can keep bites away and also bash some zombie skulls.

I just tested out my new Cold Steel Magnum Kukri on a small tree today. I cut every limb off that sucker before chopping the whole thing down in about 20 minutes. The blade got a little dull toward the end, but I really didn't get tired. No other damage to the blade besides dulling and it is the perfect weight for long term chopping.

[bandits1]

I think what Mattification is thinking about is when the thing gets all bloody, if you've ever been big game hunting and dressed a harvest, then you know the handle of your knife gets all slimy and greasey from blood and other stuff.

I've seen a few guys cut their hands and fingers with gooey knives from the handle being slippery with a not enough guard or no guard at all, and the wounds got bad infections real fast.

If you're gonna kill a Z with a knife or sword you have to stab it in the head, you could decafinate it with a sword or machete, but the head would still be "alive". Decafinate a few zeds and excaliber will start to get pretty slimy, then when you need to do some stabbing, you'll be wanting a handguard.
Yes. 10 Internets for the amazing typo.

Anyways... I think a skull counts as a hard object, and yes I was referring to how a slippery a blood covered weapon can get.

And no, I don't have a very strong grip. I'm an Internet nerd. My finger muscles are built for typing speed. :-p
Good point(s). I somehow forgot about all the infectious blood and gore that's going to be flying around. Anyway, it's a cool-looking sword, nonetheless.

Hmmm...most of the swords I've posted in this thread have very little in the way of guards on them. Looks like I'm going to have to invest in a pair of cut/pathogen resistant kevlar leather gloves.

[Onslaught]

a guard of some sort is essential when dealing with the possibility of infection.

As far as sliminess and splattering blood goes, it seems that that would only be a concern for so long. As the zombies get older, their blood should start to coagulate pretty quickly. Probably within the first few hours. There is obviously the posibility that whatever is animating them is keeping the blood liquid, but several films have depicted relatively bloodless ghouls (unless a gratuitous headshot is called for).

I think that most blades would splatter less blood than bludgeons because there is less surface impact and more cleaving or slicing. The blood that does splatter would be flung from the blade itself rather than violently ejected from the site of the wound as with a bludgeon. I know that this is a little off topic, but it jsut struck me (no pun intended). Anyway, I don't think that you'd be dealing with huge ammounts of blood on the handle of the weapon. The main concern would be touching the infeced blade and thoroughly cleaning before re-sheathing.

[homelitexl]

ills stick to a chainsaw

[kiltedninja]

Till your chainsaw gets so mucked up from chopping through all those Zombies. Unless you can entirely dismantle a chainsaw and clean the whole thing, then you're set.:)

[sk8rmichael]

idk if this was coverd or not but if you are going to use a blade were a paint ball mask or some thing "just in case" blood squirts out twords your eyes or mouth
and idk if this is a blade but a medieval mace is some thing i wana invest in it was desined to bust open heads and break bones even thrugh armor and helmets
it would kill zombies easily and im not a nife person myself even tho i have like alot of difrent types of them but i prefer guns and blunt objects such as baseball bats and so fort lol

[sk8rmichael]

a mace kinda like this http://www.mountfitchetcastle.com/images/online/mace.jpg
they have them at like the renisance festival or any thing like it ushaly

[Darkness]

it would kill zombies easily and im not a nife person myself even tho i have like alot of difrent types of them but i prefer guns and blunt objects such as baseball bats and so fort lol

"Then you would be interested in this thread here....."
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15435

"Enjoy." :)

[slayer1222]

i have a sword with a similar handle to this but in steel http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv178/gunfreak1222/06-806.jpg

[sk8rmichael]

"Then you would be interested in this thread here....."
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15435

"Enjoy." :)

thank u darkness :D

[Darkness]

i have a sword with a similar handle to this but in steel http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv178/gunfreak1222/06-806.jpg

"That's a Cavalry Saber, right?" :think:

[slayer1222]

yep and i am good with it

[sk8rmichael]

it looks preety sick O.o uhm bigest knives we got at my house are a couple machetes and a bowie knife

[kiltedninja]

I have a machete, two katana(both full tang, fully sharpened) a combat knife, and an assortment of multi-tools.

Given my choice, I'd take the machete, I'm not skilled enough with the katana to use it extensively, though I am fairly skilled with it.

[voyager]

I'm not skilled enough with the katana to use it extensively, though I am fairly skilled with it.

That's great, what style do you study?

[bandits1]

And what is the name of your sensei and the dojo you practice at?

[Dave Of The Dead]

Machetes all the way. Once upon a time when I was a mall ninja, I bought a really expensive katana. Long story short, I broke it trying to show off. Katanas are hard to use because of the softer steel they use for the back which makes it easier to break. I'll stick with kukris (both real and machete-style). They're thick enough to not break easily but powerful enough for their size to do some real damage.They were designed to decapitate... what else do I need to say?

[detpat]

hmm, 1860 light cavalry Sabre. decent weapon but has edge holding problems. not really meant to be all that sharp. make sure to draw it correctly or the scabard will dull what edge you have.

the soft back of the Katana is what makes it tougher, the sharp edge is brittle and will take damage much easier.

[slayer1222]

i dunno when mine was made but its strong sorta sharp and a good weight i think i could easily get to a brain with it and it has a spear like end

[homelitexl]

i had one of those a couple weeks ago i sold it.

[Dave Of The Dead]

the soft back of the Katana is what makes it tougher, the sharp edge is brittle and will take damage much easier.

But it makes it easier to bend.

[kiltedninja]

I practice at the Aikido school near my house, we practice Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-Ryu Iaido.

I train under Craig Fife sensei.

I've been practicing in kendo, Iaido, and Aikido for a year now.

Unless it happens at a time in which I'm skilled enough to use a katana without breaking it, I'm gonna stick with my machete.

[Onslaught]

But it makes it easier to bend.

not quite.

the "soft" back is only soft compared to the hard/brittle cutting edge.

the back is still spring tempered. it will bend and flex much like a car's leaf springs. that springy back will not take a set and bend like black iron pipe or mild steel from the hardware store. if anything a katana's blade would be more prone to snapping than bending as it is still martensite.

I have my doubts about a katana's usefulness in a zombie situation, but my concerns all stem from the size and shape of the weapon. I was under the impresson that when discusing blades for dispatching zombies that we were only talking about quality steel with good HT.

[Bob]

Well I must be woefully under armed.
All I have is some Machetes, loads of knives fixed blade, folders, and automatics.
Revolvers, pistols, rifles, and shotguns.
Not a sword in the house...

[Dave Of The Dead]

Well I must be woefully under armed.
All I have is some Machetes, loads of knives fixed blade, folders, and automatics.
Revolvers, pistols, rifles, and shotguns.
Not a sword in the house...

A machete is the way to go man. The thing is a tool that can be used as a weapon, and most tools are made to take a beating and last a very long time. On the other hand, nobody makes actual weapons anymore other than for show. Yeah sure, there are a few REAL swords sold here and there but come on, we're fighting the undead. There is no need to have a fancy ass katana or broadsword. A simple machete will do the job fine if you know what you are doing.

Onslaught, I'm sure you're right. I gave up on trying to prove myself a worthy Katana-Guru a long time ago. I figured that if I could enlighten some people about the weapon, they would rather use something else... well that didn't work so here I am bragging instead about machetes and kukris and Cold Steel products. :lol:

[50 cal]

A machete is pretty thin. They have little to no mass to them. Mass = transfer of energy to the target. Your blade will get stuck in the target leaving you weaponless.
I'll take a good Roman gladius. A good whack to the brain housing group with enough left over energy to carry the blade on through without wasting time on retrieving your weapon out of their head.

[Dave Of The Dead]

A machete is pretty thin. They have little to no mass to them. Mass = transfer of energy to the target. Your blade will get stuck in the target leaving you weaponless.
I'll take a good Roman gladius. A good whack to the brain housing group with enough left over energy to carry the blade on through without wasting time on retrieving your weapon out of their head.

But it allows you to swing faster. Where the hell are you chopping at that it will get stuck in the first place? If you are trying to slice through skull, you won't have a functional melee weapon for very long. Again, may I ask where you plan on getting said gladius?

EDIT: A roman gladius only weighs about 700 grams. Thats about 1.5 lbs. What do you know that thats about how much a machete weighs!

[Onslaught]

A machete is the way to go man. The thing is a tool that can be used as a weapon, and most tools are made to take a beating and last a very long time. On the other hand, nobody makes actual weapons anymore other than for show. Yeah sure, there are a few REAL swords sold here and there but come on, we're fighting the undead. There is no need to have a fancy ass katana or broadsword. A simple machete will do the job fine if you know what you are doing.

Onslaught, I'm sure you're right. I gave up on trying to prove myself a worthy Katana-Guru a long time ago. I figured that if I could enlighten some people about the weapon, they would rather use something else... well that didn't work so here I am bragging instead about machetes and kukris and Cold Steel products. :lol:


I know how that goes... you should see some of the gigantic rants I used to go on about the katana. Anymore I just try to clear up general swordmaking/metalwork fallacies.

there are more "real" swords out there than most people realize. It's just that there isn't a huge following and the community is rather small. But there are plenty of quality makers and prices are not that bad for a nice sharp chunk of quality steel. the real problem is finding a maker that makes a "zombie" blade. most are much more into katana/broadsword/backsword/cutlass type blades. I would personally be looking for a falcata. Basically a kukri type weapon of about 20" weighing in at around 2lbs.

the problem that I have with most machetes is that they are just as you said, tools. they are made for cutting brush and twigs, not limbs and skulls. many are just a sharpened piece of springy sheet steel. The only exception that I have found is the MEYERCO hatchet machete. it's 1/4" thick at the handle with a nice distal taper to the point. It's a bit short, but I think it would out-cut just about any other machete you can find. they-re cheap and relatively available too. You should check them out:

http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=meyerco%20%20axe%20machete&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wf

[kiltedninja]

The 'sword' I have is more like a machete, it's cheap, 440 stainless, straight, and can chop a coconut in half in one swing. It's about as thick as a Ka-bar, but not very sharp, I keep it that way on purpose. Look into a saber or cutlass for a zombie sword, I think you should anyway, those are more of chopping weapons than katana.

[Dave Of The Dead]

The 'sword' I have is more like a machete, it's cheap, 440 stainless, straight, and can chop a coconut in half in one swing. It's about as thick as a Ka-bar, but not very sharp, I keep it that way on purpose. Look into a saber or cutlass for a zombie sword, I think you should anyway, those are more of chopping weapons than katana.

Be careful with 440 steel, man. It will rust very easily if you don't keep it oiled and if you hit in just the right spot, it will put a bend in it that you will never be able to fix. I had a 440 katana-type sword a while back and I hit the "bad spot" while testing it out and pretty much bent the curve right out of the blade.

I'm going to testify once again about the lovely Cold Steel machetes. Onslaught, If you are looking for a Falcata/ Kukri-type blade, get yourself a Cold Steel Magnum Kukri Machete. I own one and swear by its durability. As where I can take a good ol' Wal Mart Machete and pretty much bend it to a 90 degree angle with ease, I can barely flex the CS Machete. Thats not to say its brittle and rigid or anything, it just takes a lot to do any damage to that thing. Look up the destruction test videos for that and you'll see what I mean. They run pretty cheap too!

Now I just made a diagram of where to attack a zombie with a blade... or a zombie magician in this case. This should give you best outcome in both dispatching the zombie and keeping your blade in best condition.

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9349/zombiemagician.jpg

The back of the neck will best, though I can imagine difficult. Severing the spinal cord or decapitation is also possible through the front of the neck, but you also have to slice through the trachea and the cartilaginous rings that encase it. Do not try and cut through the skull... If you succeed on breaching the zombie's skull, you won't have much of a blade after repeated attacks.

[bandits1]

Geez...Strider Knives should just go ahead and make an "Anti-Zombie" line of blades:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/782/dsc7195.jpg
...the RW 3.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8537/dsc2764a.jpg
...the MSC Recurve Damascus Fighter.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9156/dsc2264.jpg
...the Short Sword.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8508/dsc2286a.jpg
...the Custom Damascus Sword.

...all avalible here: http://www.arscultri.com/en/messer_messermacher.php

[Dave Of The Dead]

I found a couple nice ones while looking for birthday presents today.
We got the Chukuri knive/kukri hybrid from Khukuri Blades. I kinda fell in love with this thing right away. Chukuri (http://www.khukuriblades.com/products/details.php?id=313931fc812)
http://www.khukuriblades.com/images/images_product/enlarge1/191_108-310-x-210.jpg

Then for you sword lovers, we have the Tarwar from Himalayan Imports. Tarwar (http://yhst-7333098713883.stores.yahoo.net/tarwar.html)
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-7333098713883_2019_2375993

[kiltedninja]

I'll stick to my machete sword thanks.

[Dave Of The Dead]

I'll stick to my machete sword thanks.

You're missing out, man. These Nepalese craftsman do some great work.

[bandits1]

You're missing out, man. These Nepalese craftsman do some great work.
Great work for only $44.99? What a bargain!

[kiltedninja]

It's fine for you, but I've got more important stuff to spend money on at the moment.

My blades are plenty useful at the time.

[Bob]

I have to wonder how many of these blades will actually stand up to heavy use like cutting bone on a regular basis?

I wonder how many people understand the difference in how a blade is sharpened depending on it's intended use?

Has anyone given thought to how to test a blade?
Would you buy one and do a destructive test to determine how strong it really is then if it passed buy another or would you just buy it based on appearance.

Knowing the type of steel is only one piece of the puzzle, temper is also critical.
Most any Moe-Ron can file a piece of sheet metal into the shape of a knife or sword but making a useful blade takes skill.

I just happen to know a guy with a very high dollar custom knife his wife bought for him that is nothing more than a blade blank that was finished and polished. I found the same blank and sheath at an internet site. I just hope the guy who took her to the cleaners at least had it professionally tempered.

[50 cal]

The only blade I've carried on a regular basis is a Cold Steel Tanto. It has seen use from Africa to the Middle East. I would rely on it in a pinch in a heart beat. In fact I have, it has saved my life more than once. I bought this one so many years ago it isn't funny. Probably been around hte world a few times and seen some messed up stuff.:evil:

http://images.coldsteel-knives.com/Lg/3243_1/13BN_Cold_Steel_Master_Tanto_w_Leather_Sheath.jpg

[Dave Of The Dead]

Great work for only $44.99? What a bargain!

I've bought from these guys before. They're the ones who made D'Arcy, my REAL kukri. I've put that thing through more to even list on here, both practical tests and ridiculous. She's a heavy mofo but with that comes the durability and strength that this tool is known for. Seriously, this company makes longer ones that are meant to decapitate bulls during the festival season. So they're pretty serious about having their product made well.
Bob, if you are curious enough, they have their tempering and hardness scales for each blade on their website (like what the hardness is at the different parts of the blade).

[homelitexl]

til they make a chainsaw or a confederate civil war sword i aint interested

[bandits1]

I have to wonder how many of these blades will actually stand up to heavy use like cutting bone on a regular basis?

I wonder how many people understand the difference in how a blade is sharpened depending on it's intended use?

Has anyone given thought to how to test a blade?
Would you buy one and do a destructive test to determine how strong it really is then if it passed buy another or would you just buy it based on appearance.

Knowing the type of steel is only one piece of the puzzle, temper is also critical.
Most any Moe-Ron can file a piece of sheet metal into the shape of a knife or sword but making a useful blade takes skill.

I just happen to know a guy with a very high dollar custom knife his wife bought for him that is nothing more than a blade blank that was finished and polished. I found the same blank and sheath at an internet site. I just hope the guy who took her to the cleaners at least had it professionally tempered.
Here's some vids of a dude running several brands/models of blades - including Strider - through some pretty harsh tests. I haven't watched all of them, but it seems he effectively ruins every knife he tests. He runs them to the point of failure. He doesn't comment as much as I would hope - mostly because he's out-of-breath - so you have to just watch and determine for yourself how tough each blade is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-nBlWdFMBg&feature=related

The Strider did very well until he took a hammer to the spine and tried to pound the blade through the hinge of a steel folding-chair, then clamped it in a vice and pulled on it with a wrench. But you could probably break any blade by doing those things to it. I'd be confident with a Strider product on z-day. I had a Strider folder a while ago, but I lost it one drunken night. Damn expensive, too. =(

[Ball Tripper]

I got a question for yous wit da knowledge and all that. How well do you think an antique blade would hold up? I've got a lot of blades but I know full well that most are for show only. If I ever try hitting something with them, pretty much only the first blow is going to count. And that's for the ones that are even sharpened in the first place. But I do have a few pieces that aren't for show.

Like this one.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ddr223/Consignment%20Collection/Japanese%20Bayonets/Bay-8%20Natl%20Denki/bay8-1.jpg
It's certainly much higher quality than most of my other blades and it seems really sturdy. But it's just a bit over 100 years old now.

What do you guys think? Would the age of it make it a bad choice for a primary melee weapon?

[kiltedninja]

Homelite, I dunno of the corn-feds used a different sword than the yanks during the civil war, but Cold Steel does make cavalry sabers.

http://www.coldsteel.com/napoleonsaber.html

According to them, it was used on both sides in the Civil War.

Dave, you have some nice toys, but can you carry the weight of your weapons, ammunition, water, food, extra supplies, and extra clothes? I'd strip it down to bare essentials if I were you.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Homelite, I dunno of the corn-feds used a different sword than the yanks during the civil war, but Cold Steel does make cavalry sabers.

http://www.coldsteel.com/napoleonsaber.html

According to them, it was used on both sides in the Civil War.

Dave, you have some nice toys, but can you carry the weight of your weapons, ammunition, water, food, extra supplies, and extra clothes? I'd strip it down to bare essentials if I were you.

No doubt. The only blades I'm carrying are my two kukris. The ones I posted were just some good examples of what I think would do well in a zombie situation. The rest of my gear is pretty light weight, minus my shotgun and shells. In the picture thread, It shows me carrying everything minus my BOB (which only holds a few emergency nick-knacks and food) and my 2 liter water back.

[homelitexl]

they weere the same style wise but each was decorated different.

[Onslaught]

Be careful with 440 steel, man. It will rust very easily if you don't keep it oiled and if you hit in just the right spot, it will put a bend in it that you will never be able to fix. I had a 440 katana-type sword a while back and I hit the "bad spot" while testing it out and pretty much bent the curve right out of the blade.

I'm going to testify once again about the lovely Cold Steel machetes. Onslaught, If you are looking for a Falcata/ Kukri-type blade, get yourself a Cold Steel Magnum Kukri Machete. I own one and swear by its durability. As where I can take a good ol' Wal Mart Machete and pretty much bend it to a 90 degree angle with ease, I can barely flex the CS Machete. Thats not to say its brittle and rigid or anything, it just takes a lot to do any damage to that thing. Look up the destruction test videos for that and you'll see what I mean. They run pretty cheap too!

Now I just made a diagram of where to attack a zombie with a blade... or a zombie magician in this case. This should give you best outcome in both dispatching the zombie and keeping your blade in best condition.

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9349/zombiemagician.jpg

The back of the neck will best, though I can imagine difficult. Severing the spinal cord or decapitation is also possible through the front of the neck, but you also have to slice through the trachea and the cartilaginous rings that encase it. Do not try and cut through the skull... If you succeed on breaching the zombie's skull, you won't have much of a blade after repeated attacks.


I've seen/handled the cold steel machete seies at fun shows. I wasn't impressed with them as weapons. I'm sure they'd do just fine for clearing brush though.

As for attacking a zombie, I'd say the neck is a nice target if you can get it. The problem would be getting it. As far as I can tell hitting an unprotected neck from the rear is a no-brainer (no pun intended). Destroying a zombie from the front, with a blade, would be more of a challenge. Several factors need to be considered. Weapon, environment, speed of the attacker, size of the attacker, and the ammount of time you have to react to it's presence.

An attacking zombie would most likely have it's arms stretched toward you, reaching. This flexes the trapesius and bunches up the shoulder around the neck, protecting it as the shoulders roll forward. So not only do you have the arms out front creating distance and taking away angles, but you have a significantly shorter neck to target. Attempting to hit the neck will undoubtedly lead your blade into the skull occasionally anyway.

Aiming for the neck also assumes that you will always have room for a side swing. In a hallway, that will very often not be the case. I reference a hallway because I see the melee weapon as a weapon of opportunity and one of last resort. It will be the go-to weapon when all else fails, the worst-case-scenario. There are many factors other than number of zombies that make a WCS. Plan for the WORST. Confinement is a problem that one would undoubtedly run into in our increasingly urban environments. This is one of the main reasons I prefer a shorter (than a katana, or longsword) melee weapon. Sometimes overhead strikes may be the only method available, they should not be discounted.

A weapon doesn't need to be shaving sharp to crush it's way through the brain case. The weapon only needs it's edge to concentrate the force of your swing so that you can use less energy. This stouter edge will be helpful in that it wil be harder to cut yourself and it will be sturdier and require less sharpening.

Skulls, while tough, are not impenertable. Nor are they as resiliant as steel, or as abrasive as concrete. Skulls can be fractured if a man simply falls from his normal standing height onto a hard surface. Most hand-held weapons of the ancient world were able to destroy a skull without great difficulty. A purpose built modern Z weapon would last through thousands of skulls.

Testing some zombie CQC wouldnt be hard if you ahd the help of a zombie obsessed friend. A mockup weapon of a suitable length could be quickly made to test things like angle of attack, outstretched arms, and the difficulties posed by indoor environments.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Nice analysis. I do agree with most of what you're saying. Have you ever used a cold steel machete before, though? They look pretty thin and harmless, but I have cut down a tree with one. Yeah, it took about 15 minutes, but come on, we're talking about a whole 10" thick tree! NO damage to the blade what so ever.

[homelitexl]

thats what dog poop on a stick is for

[Ball Tripper]

Nobody has any opinion on my antique bayonet? If I rely on it when the dead rise up and it it fails me, i'm cursing you all with my last breath.

[mattifikation]

It looks rusted. Rust = damaged = weak = no

[Ball Tripper]

Thats not a pic of my actual one, thats just a pic of the same model i found on the net. Mine is very tarnished but there isn't any rust on it. In general how do you guys think such a weapon would serve against the undead?

The back of the blade is a bit more than a quarter inch thick so i think it would be strong enough to crack a skull. And it's pointy enough to piece the back of an eye socket. Assuming I could put it in a zed's eye with enough force to do it.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Thats not a pic of my actual one, thats just a pic of the same model i found on the net. Mine is very tarnished but there isn't any rust on it. In general how do you guys think such a weapon would serve against the undead?

The back of the blade is a bit more than a quarter inch thick so i think it would be strong enough to crack a skull. And it's pointy enough to piece the back of an eye socket. Assuming I could put it in a zed's eye with enough force to do it.

If you have the skill to use it, then yes it can be used. Polish it up and bit and keep it oiled and you'll have a lifetime friend. Let it sit in a chest for years with no maintenance, and you'll just have an old piece of trash.

[Onslaught]

[quote=Dave Of The Dead;415486] Have you ever used a cold steel machete before... quote]

I have not.

I couldn't justify buying one when I already own the cold steel two handed machete. I'm sure they're quite tough, I was mainly concerned with how "whippy" the blade was. It is still basically stamped from sheet stock. I prefer to have at least one fuller for lateral support if it isn't going to be a thicker (.2") blade.

[Dave Of The Dead]

I have not.

I couldn't justify buying one when I already own the cold steel two handed machete. I'm sure they're quite tough, I was mainly concerned with how "whippy" the blade was. It is still basically stamped from sheet stock. I prefer to have at least one fuller for lateral support if it isn't going to be a thicker (.2") blade.

Yeah, I had my doubts at the beginning too. It thought it was going to flex too much when I swung it and bend out of shape. I was wrong.

[mattifikation]

What about a leaf-blade styled short sword, similar to the sword Sting from Lord of the Rings?

[kiltedninja]

That's what I was wondering. I think the potential is there for a good weapon.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Sort of like a short broad sword? I could see that working pretty well. I feel like a wider blade would give you more control over it and give it plenty more uses than just a killing machine.

[homelitexl]

i think i would just use a wood axe unless my saw applies as a bladed weapon

[kiltedninja]

Wood axe is the older version of your saw Homelite. It would be like going back in time.

[homelitexl]

good then it does count yay

[Hitman]

Sort of like a short broad sword? I could see that working pretty well. I feel like a wider blade would give you more control over it and give it plenty more uses than just a killing machine.


like a pirate cutlas?

[Dave Of The Dead]

like a pirate cutlas?

No, more like a Viking Sword. Just a wide shorter blade with a tapered tip. If it was made with thicker and better carbon steel, then its uses as a tool would be greatly enhanced.

[mattifikation]

Is is possible to forge a double-edged sword where one edge is built for sword-work and the other is specifically built for utility work?

[slayer1222]

would these do any good against a zombie


http://www.coldsteel-uk.com/store/Chinese-War-Sword.html

http://www.coldsteel-uk.com/store/Butterfly-Swords.html

http://www.coldsteel-uk.com/store/Norse-Tomahawk.html

[Dave Of The Dead]

Is is possible to forge a double-edged sword where one edge is built for sword-work and the other is specifically built for utility work?

Probably, you just have to make one end thicker than the other I suppose. The thin side should be sharpened at all times while thick side only has a rough edge.

As for you Slayer, The Chinese War Sword would probably do great against zeds if you got familiar with it enough to know how to swing it. Butterfly Swords are borderline for me. Maybe if you were really good with them. Again, there's two and double wielding is a clumsy and show-offy style. The tomahawk, maybe. I'm not used to axe blades, so I'm not convinced of a tomahawks capabilities.

[slayer1222]

i thought the war sword would be good and as fop the butterfly swords i think they mite be good but mabe 1 at a time then

[kiltedninja]

I'd go with the Norse Tomahawk or a spear. Simple weapons for a simple purpose.

[Evil Joe]

i persenly would have several swords for different ways to kill and different situations

1) i would have a dagger just long enuff to go from one side of the head to the other and use it for stabing zombies brain from beind(if i can safly)

2) i would have a nice hacking weapon that could go clean through a zombies skull
Mabye a kukri

3) i would have a full length one-handed sword for open area combat
somthing like this hopefully
http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/arch-769-1/ahds/dissemination/pdf/vol30/30_093_099.pdf

as for katanas i have found a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTiLAEGHTnk
this move would be accpecialy good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZPWPXSEbcw&feature=channel

also u have to think about what u do after u hack into the head of a zombie as the sword or axe or whatever may get stuck and then his buddy will likely eat u
LOL:lol:

[Dave Of The Dead]

Not bad choices. But if you plan on attacking from behind, save your blade the stress and aim for the spine, not the skull.

[bandits1]

Lol @ learing how to use a sword from a video.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Lol @ learing how to use a sword from a video.

Hey, its better than learning from a book... if only by a little.

[Evil Joe]

i did not learn how to use a sword from a vid u guys where asking about katanas so i found a vid

[Dave Of The Dead]

i did not learn how to use a sword from a vid u guys where asking about katanas so i found a vid

Its funny, but I did notice something in that video that many mall ninjas may have looked over when getting off to the guys katana skills and the prospect of zombie slicing: he said that the best and most effective part of the blade was the two inch part at the tip... how are you supposed to slice through a zombie with only two inches of the blade? What people don't realize, is that the katana was a cutting weapon designed to maim, not so much kill your opponent. Thats why the samurai has Sepuku (SP?) so they could finish themselves off through honor. The sword wouldn't so much kill them, just dishonor them enough for them to commit suicide.

[Evil Joe]

Not bad choices. But if you plan on attacking from behind, save your blade the stress and aim for the spine, not the skull.

if u aim where the spine and the skull meets and get the angle right then it does not wear out the blade as much but will still kill the zombie just as fast(also it all depends on the zombie if it is not stopped by severing the spine then ur scewed)

i agree with what u said about the katana being usless against a zombie u just got there firsts i just got out of the bath and was going to say somthing along those lines

[mattifikation]

You probably won't have that much fine motor control during a life and death situation. It would take years of practice to get to the point where you could reliably hit a specific point on the body every time.

[bandits1]

Its funny, but I did notice something in that video that many mall ninjas may have looked over when getting off to the guys katana skills and the prospect of zombie slicing: he said that the best and most effective part of the blade was the two inch part at the tip... how are you supposed to slice through a zombie with only two inches of the blade? What people don't realize, is that the katana was a cutting weapon designed to maim, not so much kill your opponent. Thats why the samurai has Sepuku (SP?) so they could finish themselves off through honor. The sword wouldn't so much kill them, just dishonor them enough for them to commit suicide.
Wha...? Link to references?

[Dave Of The Dead]

Let me look it up here in a bit. I have enough reference books on feudal Japan to make a mall ninja come.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Sorry for the double post here, but here we go.

The two books along with Wikipedia I'm using here are The Book of Five Rings by Musahi himself and The way of the Samurai" with its title page torn out and used for rolling paper. Anyway, "The Way of the Samurai" explains that katanas were used in battle but were also the choice weapon for duals. In the "Book of Five Rings" Musashi repeats phrases about "Cutting" the opponent and also "The Brave Acceptance of Death." See Appendix A "The Brave Acceptance of Death: The fighter is obliged to choose death when the choice is life or death. A man who continues to live after a failure at his intended task is but a coward. The defeated man must die. This is the most important instruction in the Way of the Warrior. The man who is aware that death may arrive this day and who think of himself as a lifeless vessel is one with the way of the warrior, and is able to live a life without failure and to carry out his task as required. The principle of bravely accepting death is the main point in the philosophy of the Hidden Pages, which was written in the seventeenth century by a samurai from the province of Nanshima-Han."
Through this we begin to understand a warrior's mindset when he enters a dual. Either the man will come out unscathed and will be successful at the task ahead of him, or he will be injured or dead and will have failed. To fail is to be a coward and to be a coward is dishonorable. The warrior would rather choose ritual death than to live after failure.

Good?

[bandits1]

Sorry for the double post here, but here we go.

The two books along with Wikipedia I'm using here are The Book of Five Rings by Musahi himself and The way of the Samurai" with its title page torn out and used for rolling paper. Anyway, "The Way of the Samurai" explains that katanas were used in battle but were also the choice weapon for duals. In the "Book of Five Rings" Musashi repeats phrases about "Cutting" the opponent and also "The Brave Acceptance of Death." See Appendix A
"The Brave Acceptance of Death: The fighter is obliged to choose death when the choice is life or death. A man who continues to live after a failure at his intended task is but a coward. The defeated man must die. This is the most important instruction in the Way of the Warrior. The man who is aware that death may arrive this day and who think of himself as a lifeless vessel is one with the way of the warrior, and is able to live a life without failure and to carry out his task as required. The principle of bravely accepting death is the main point in the philosophy of the Hidden Pages, which was written in the seventeenth century by a samurai from the province of Nanshima-Han."

Through this we begin to understand a warrior's mindset when he enters a dual. Either the man will come out unscathed and will be successful at the task ahead of him, or he will be injured or dead and will have failed. To fail is to be a coward and to be a coward is dishonorable. The warrior would rather choose ritual death than to live after failure.

Good?
Negative. All that explains is a small part of the "honor to the death" section of the bushidō code.

It says nothing about the katana being "...a cutting weapon designed to maim, not so much kill your opponent". It doesn't say that the "...sword wouldn't so much kill them, just dishonor them enough for them to commit suicide". Maybe the victor left his opponent alive on purpose, knowing he would have to kill himself, anyway? Maybe the loser was rendered combat-ineffective before he was actually dead?

People survive gunshot wounds all the time -- it doesn't mean that guns weren't designed to kill. All it means is the shooter missed what he was aiming at or didn't intend to kill in the first place. Same thing with a sword. If the loser is still alive enough to commit seppuku, it's because the winner allowed him to do so by accident or intent -- not because the sword wasn't designed to kill.

I'm not convinced even a little bit that the katana was designed from the start to maim and not kill. That's crazy-talk.

[Dave Of The Dead]

**** it, your right. I guess I was defending a losing statement. What I wrote before was wrong, I notice that now.

Either way, the katana is too complex of a weapon to be used untrained. Unless you have years of training, you can't even begin to know how to use it well.

[mattifikation]

Actually, I've heard that modern ammunition *is* designed to injure instead of kill, for the simple fact that killing an enemy removes him from the battle, but injuring an enemy removes him and the two schmucks who have to haul him away.

[1337ZM613HN73R]

killing an enemy removes him from the battle, but injuring an enemy removes him and the two schmucks who have to haul him away.
Well put, I will mail you cookies now.
I think that it was designed to be able to kill but mostly injure because it is a frail blade. I do believe that it COULD kill, if you knew how to use it right, and where to strike... But that's if you are HUMAN. A zombie you could only kill it by destroying the brain, be it decapitation, or jamming something straight through the skull and into the brain.
If you have a very good nerve (as in you could act well in a position if you are right next to a zombie trying to eat your face off) To the point where you could hit a moving zombie in the neck for decapitation, then fine, go ahead and use a katana.
Though if you are like the most of us, then you most likely freak out and try to get the neck and hit the shoulder. So for me I would go with the axes that... Um... Who put those up? Suggested the half crowbar and half axe thingy because more then likely it has the hacking power to go through a skull, which would be a much easier target to hit.

[mattifikation]

I still say katana = no.
Honestly for some reason I've never really been a big katana fan. Legend of Zelda was my favorite game growing up, so I guess that led to me liking European swords.

[Bob]

A friend and I once had an Axe fight with double bitted axes in a K-mart.
The manager did not see the humor...

[homelitexl]

my ian and me did that with chainsaws in home depot:lol:

[mattifikation]

Yeah, well me and my friend did that with dynamite in a mining operations supply store. :loon:

[Bob]

I am not allowed to play with explosives anymore...

[Dave Of The Dead]

I just burned up a good portion of my parents yard with a sparkler bomb... The fire was probably hot enough to forge a blade for fighting zombies! :)
(Had to link it to the topic somehow)

[kiltedninja]

I made a match/black powder bomb, filled a jager bottle with a mixture of the both, and blew it up in my backyard.

[Bob]

Check out this thread

http://www.shootingatoz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=916

[detpat]

that made me laugh pretty hard. i grew up on a farm in northern WV in the 60's when kids could still access cool stuff. we had a seam of coal pretty near the surface and used to burn coal in our fireplace instead of wood. most of my relatives worked in the mines and we had plenty of tools to dig coal........this included explosives. commercial grade of course.

we used to have lots of fun blasting stumps, so much fun that when we got started we pretty much used up the day looking for more "stumps" to blast.

this, of course, inspired the kids to all sorts of experiments and a lifelong urge to blow things up.

hey' you'uns........watch 'is!:drinking:

[Dave Of The Dead]

Well, its prime season for stupid firework videos on youtube, so get your yearly fill!

[kiltedninja]

That was a hilarious story man, I could see my friend Dylan doing that.

[Darkness]

"We have a thread, for the topic of things that go Boom......."

http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17685

"......Let's get back to Blades in here, ok?" :)

[homelitexl]

i filled a copehagan can with gun powder and bb's it made a big crater

[Onslaught]

Anyone thought about just how sharp their blade needs to be? How about sharpening in the ZPAW??

[detpat]

if you have an knife and can't sharpen it you won't have a knife very long.

most people don't know that a general purpose working knife shouldn't be a razor, the sharper an edge is the more delicate it is.

[Bob]

I can sharpen a knife with a reasonably flat rock.
A piece of concrete from a front porch will also work.

My Grandfather believed a man needed to be able to sharpen a knife and he made sure my cousins and I could do it.

It is sooo easy to get a decent edge with just a piece of sandpaper...

As to how sharp it would depend on if it was a skinning knive or a hacking knife like a Kukri.
Razor sharp edges tend to be delicate.

[detpat]

yup, i was thinking of a general use knife like a roach belly or similar. i have a set of smaller knives to use as skinning and dressing tools.

[Bob]

A cold steel roach belly for $10.97

http://www.knivesplus.com/coldsteelknifecs-20rbc.html

[kiltedninja]

I use my Ka-Bar as my multi-purpose knife, since it doesn't get a razor edge, it's good for chopping shit up and carving. I keep my CRKT for the razor edge uses.

[Dave Of The Dead]

A cold steel roach belly for $10.97

http://www.knivesplus.com/coldsteelknifecs-20rbc.html

Jump on that. I swear by their blades.

[Noc]

I think if I were to choose a bladed weapon, I would go with a kukri, like some people have mentioned if I'm fighting zombie with a blade it's going to be when I'm caught unprepared, and most probably inside. Either in my 'safehouse' or when/if I raid a shop or other residence. So maneuverability and durability will be key.

Also, seeing as I have no training whatsoever, with any weapon, I don't want anything too technical, katana, rapier, etc etc.

But, if an outbreak actually occured, the only 2 bladed weapon I have at my house, (besided hunting/fishing knives:loon:), are a very old and rusted machete, and a Tomahawk, (All one piece of steel, with a rubber grip. Ex firemans axe) So I would probably end up using that.

[kiltedninja]

I'd go with William Wallace, and probably a hatchet of some sort. I'm still trying to get the money to get a good one, since I have very little of that.

[Dave Of The Dead]

I think if I were to choose a bladed weapon, I would go with a kukri, like some people have mentioned if I'm fighting zombie with a blade it's going to be when I'm caught unprepared, and most probably inside. Either in my 'safehouse' or when/if I raid a shop or other residence. So maneuverability and durability will be key.

Also, seeing as I have no training whatsoever, with any weapon, I don't want anything too technical, katana, rapier, etc etc.

But, if an outbreak actually occured, the only 2 bladed weapon I have at my house, (besided hunting/fishing knives:loon:), are a very old and rusted machete, and a Tomahawk, (All one piece of steel, with a rubber grip. Ex firemans axe) So I would probably end up using that.

Yes, I highly recommend kukris. I've been using them for a while now... even before Resident Evil Extinction came out. They're not hard to use, but they are hard to get used to. The weight of the blade is a little funny and the traditional handle styles are slightly uncomfortable in the beginning. You can find good ones for cheap everywhere. If you want a lighter and longer blade, Cold Steel is the way to go. If you want the real thing, quarter inch thick blade and all, try one of the many Kukri House chapters on the internet. This (http://www.khukuriblades.com/) is where I buy from.