One Pistol or Small Side Arm

[Bob]

I love discussing this and I'll happily debate it until the day I die.


You imply you are convinced you are right and nothing will change your mind.

I don't argue for the sake of arguing.

I was just throwing out some random statements intended to be amusing and you began flipping out.

Let it go, there are easier targets than me.

[Birdman44]

3030, if you were to only fire shots when absolutely needed in zpaw dont you think that most if not all of those shots would be within 10 yards anyways? At that distance a suppressor would do nothing to hamper the bullets ability to kill or its accuracy. Not to mention the suppressor would help you stay "under the radar" from any other threats near by that would be in hearing distance of a regular gunshot. I'm sorry if it seams like im bashing you, but using a silencer seams to me like a more logical option than firing an unmodified weapon, especially when its on an emergency basis.

[Hitman]

Ok, honestly, I could care less if you eat bananas or how large you are, I'm saying I have no clue what you're trying to get across since your words have no relivence to the topic. That's nice, you cna keep your Potassium up, but I'm trying to have a discussion and debate the simple idea of using silencers and you're talking about gorillas. Maybe you were trying to say that i shouldnt debate the topic with you since you own silencers? See, I have no clue waht you're talking about because you arnt using coherent sentences. You arn't edgar allen poe, your life is no metaphor, so please try to speak to me like a big boy or else let people with something to say have your turn.

Back on topic....

I am lead to believe they do effect ballistics, but just say I'm wrong, effecting accuracy is bad enough. So if I'm wrong, I dont mind admitting that! I just dont know what that would do to a ballistic out of the silencer, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable than myself on silencers can explain this. I am only going off of a few physics classes I took, so mayeb they are using different materials that I am unaware of.

I believe bob was refering to me when he said the gorrilla comment . meaning I can carry my own weigt when the topic turns this way . and as per the quoted post ...

you are wrong . kinda . most modern silencers do have an effect on accuracy , sound levels , bullet exit speed and coolness . the change is opposite of what your thinking though .

the differance in accuracy with most pistols between unsuppressed and suppressed is neglegable . I can't tell a change even when I shoot my 9mm at 75 yards with the suppresor , which by the way is quite a bit further than 10 yards . at 25 yards I can remove the center of the head of a B27 , even though the can blocks the pistols sights . shoot with both eyes open and its not a problem (you should be doing that anyway) . on most rifles you have what is called point of impact shift when the suppresor is attached , the easy way around that is to just only shoot with the suppresor attached. it tends to be minor most of the times anyway and repeatable . the group size does tend to shrink some though for reasons the BOSS works as well . it helps to balance out the barrel whipping and harmonics as the bullet travels down its bore.

to get the most out of a suppresor , subsonic ammo and an ablative material should be used (.45 acp its a must) . most skip the ablative and I use supersonic ammo some times . one interesting thing that happens is that when the bullet exits the barrels muzzle its still being pushed by the high pressure gasses but without the friction of the barrel . its generaly just a few fps though . also take the 9mm 147gr JHP , the FBI picked it after the miami dade shootout . power and penetration is not sacrificed just because its going slower.

Most rifles are shot using full power ammo . to get an idea of the usefullness of this think of it this way , you hear no muzzle blast , yet the bullet travaling faster than the speed of sound makes its own noise. if the bullet misses you , the sound of the bullet coming towards you and going away from you gets to you at the same time . try figuring out where the shot came from.

now for the coolness factor

yours

http://www.randymays.com/SW162504.jpg

mine , so quiet its stupid . slap you forhead , you just made more noise than this pistol .

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/bobsboobs/MKII2.jpg

and for the serious work. 9mm goodness , 20 rds per mag ,then 17 and 15 . I can offload 200 or so rounds before I run out of mags .put a little water in the can and if I was shooting it in the next room while you watched TV , you'd never know.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/bobsboobs/taruswithcan.jpg

PS I designed and made both of those . the black one was for my buisness and the polished one was for fun .

let me know if you need more schooling on this or other misunderstood fun toys like sawn off shotguns and machine guns.

[Bob]

I stuck my toe in the water with the witty (evidently not to you) post about your being wrong and did not find the water to my liking.
I then made the second post about the gorilla and the gauntlet which I thought was amusing.

It seems you were expecting a broadsword slash and instead got pinked with a rapier.
There is more of a brain trust here when it comes to weapons than one would expect from a dedicated Zombie forum.
I knew the challenge would be accepted (thanks Hitman) and was in a right brain sort of way telling you so.
My humor often must be looked for.

Anyhow to keep this thread on target.
If I could only have one pistol it would be a Glock 17.
High capacity low recoil is your best bet against the Zed.
The beauty of a Glock is they are intuitive.
They are point and shoot, no safety to fumble with.
Anyone can stuff bullets in the magazine, jam it in the reciever, and pull back on the slide to release it.

[Birdman44]

A G17 seams like it would work very well, and it also gives you the option for a 19rd magazine or a 33rd magazine which i believe the 33rd magazine is made for the Glock 18 which is just a converted G17 so it fits just fine. Cheers to you on that choice bob!:drinking:

[Bob]

I like the 33 round magazines, they are not as huge as they sound.
I wish I had bought more of them when they were cheaper.

[Hitman]

same here bob . have you tried the south korean mags yet. I got 3 for my G19 .they work just as good as the originals from what I can tell . leaps and bounds above shrear (sp? don't really care) mags.

[Bob]

No I have not, all mine are factory.
I will keep an eye out for them though.
What is the brand name on them?
I should be finished with my two current projects in about a month and want to lay in some more mags before it is to late.

I wish the 20 round drum for my Saiga 12 would hurry up and get here.

[Hitman]

bob here are the G19 mags I ordered

http://www.copesdistributing.net/product_info.php?cPath=44_50&products_id=1114

I just found these . 44mag is good people to order from also . I'm ordering 4 as I type this .

http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KCIG17

http://www.44mag.com/images/kcig17.jpg

[savazombie]

I've lurked here long enough... Seeing as this conversation is about optimal sidearm, and not really about the practicality of acquiring said sidearm, I want to throw out the Chinese model 712. Remember the old Mauser C96? (Han Solo's blaster) This is a 9mm parabellum round. The Chinese model 712 is a fully automatic pistol, with 10, 20 or 30 round removable magazines. It looks exactly like the C96, except for the oversized magazine. Hands down... this would be the one single sidearm that is still a sidearm...
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/mauser_c96_712.jpg

[mattifikation]

What's the word on CZ-75's? Are they any good?

[Bob]

Hitman

They look good, they work well huh?

[Hitman]

Hitman

They look good, they work well huh?


got them in fri , they look good . I also got another SS C-products 20rd ar mag for the bench .

the south korean G19 mags work good. I plan on going to the range tomarrow , I'll post up how well they load and feed strait from the wrapper. they'll be used in my very old worn G19 and a friends brand new G19 .

[Hitman]

I've lurked here long enough... Seeing as this conversation is about optimal sidearm, and not really about the practicality of acquiring said sidearm, I want to throw out the Chinese model 712. Remember the old Mauser C96? (Han Solo's blaster) This is a 9mm parabellum round. The Chinese model 712 is a fully automatic pistol, with 10, 20 or 30 round removable magazines. It looks exactly like the C96, except for the oversized magazine. Hands down... this would be the one single sidearm that is still a sidearm...
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/mauser_c96_712.jpg

looks good to me ,just make sure to stock up on tons of mags and sare parts . bring lots of cash also ,this one is probly still for sale.

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=14439&query=retrieval

[CAVU45]

Wonder if it comes with the wodden holster/stock? I also wonder how that was effected by the Clinton era ban on importation of Chinese made firearms. If any are available in the US they'd be more than 14 years old now.

[Hitman]

Wonder if it comes with the wodden holster/stock? I also wonder how that was effected by the Clinton era ban on importation of Chinese made firearms. If any are available in the US they'd be more than 14 years old now.


for a non dealer to buy one it would have to have been imported before 1968 . also being a full-auto means that it can have the stock mounted .

[CAVU45]

Yep. Class III only. I imagine it's a pretty rare piece. I wonder at the quality of the gun also. I've never heard or seen anything on them.

[Hitman]

Yep. Class III only. I imagine it's a pretty rare piece. I wonder at the quality of the gun also. I've never heard or seen anything on them.

I've seen a couple being shot at knob creek . seemed to run just fine while there . the design is 120 years old though and is chambered in a much hotter round than it was orginaly designed for .

[CAVU45]

Yeh, I know. It's based off the old Broomhandle Mauser design. Hopefully it's built stronger than the Chinese SKS.

[Hitman]

Hitman

They look good, they work well huh?

I ran through the 4 G17 S.K. mags I got in today . all worked fine , some were pretty stiff to load though. I did mostly drawing from concealment while on the move , shooting on the move , and reloads while moving . during one reload I dropped a full mag on the packed gravel , worked fine when I worked my way back to it for a pickup reload from the kneeling position . all was done with very fast doubles , tripples , moz. and long rapid strings . the G19 mags also preformed very good today again .

a friend also ran a few quick loads through 2 of them in his brand new G19 , no problems there either.

all are totaly drop free and have the ambi cut also.

[Bob]

Very nice
I will have to order some when I finish converting my second Saiga 12.
I liked the first one so much I got another so I could have one with a folding stock and one with a fixed stock.

[CanSurviveIt]

For concealed carry, a 9mm will do the job. Provided that you get the proper ammunition, which is a JHP, and probably with a +P designation. It has the added benefit of being inexpensive in relation to other calibers, giving you more of an opportunity to practice with it. Really only you can answer what pistol would be best, because no one else has any way of knowing what will fit your hand best. Some models to consider are Glock 19 or 17, CZ-75, Springfield XD9, Smith & Wesson MP9, and many many others.

For a home defense situation, where you can have whatever you want, a rifle or shotgun are far greater than a pistol for several reasons. They are more powerful, easier to shoot and can usually carry more rounds (in a rifle, not usually the case in a shotgun). A .223 is an excellent choice, since the recoil is minimal, the ammunition plentiful and believe it or not, studies show that it loaded properly (again, jhp) penetrates through wallboard less than many pistol rounds due to the fact that it loses energy quickly when tumbling, Mini 14 and AR15's are good choices, but I'd like to recommend the Saiga. Its a Russian made rifle (made in the same factories as the AK-47) that's quite reliable, for half or less of the price than the Mini 14-AR15's. It only comes with 10 rounds, but is readily modified to carry 30 round magazines, but you have to make sure you do it within the realm of applicable laws.

[Darkness]

For a home defense situation, where you can have whatever you want, a rifle or shotgun are far greater than a pistol for several reasons. They are more powerful, easier to shoot and can usually carry more rounds (in a rifle, not usually the case in a shotgun). A .223 is an excellent choice, since the recoil is minimal, the ammunition plentiful and believe it or not, studies show that it loaded properly (again, jhp) penetrates through wallboard less than many pistol rounds due to the fact that it loses energy quickly when tumbling, Mini 14 and AR15's are good choices, but I'd like to recommend the Saiga. Its a Russian made rifle (made in the same factories as the AK-47) that's quite reliable, for half or less of the price than the Mini 14-AR15's. It only comes with 10 rounds, but is readily modified to carry 30 round magazines, but you have to make sure you do it within the realm of applicable laws.

"Yes, but those weapons are being discussed in another thread. Many other threads, as a matter of fact. Please keep to pistols and small sidearms in this one, thank you." ;-)

[gama169]

I know zip about guns. I'd try to take the lightest weapon I could that's in high ammo supply.

[The Daz]

Since I already own several Glocks in .40 (the 23 and 35), I would just stay with the 35 since I have several hundred rounds and 10 mags to accompany it. I would choose the 35 because it has the longer barrel for those "hard to reach places" otherwise inaccessible to the shorter barrel 23. I own the Surefire X300 light and it coupled with the 35 is a force to reckon with. I will be ordering a Crimson Trace for it when the new "LG-417 front activated" model comes out for the Glock...mmm, can you say "yay" for easier head shots?

If I didn't already have the Glock, I would go with the new Springfield XDM 9mm. The thing has a stock capacity of 19+1 in a well built, ergonomic, polymer-pistol-package!

[Bob]

23 is a nice gun, it was the first Glock I got.
But for when something really truly needs to be dead it's hard to beat a 20.

Does anyone here have a 9x25 Dillon in a G20 frame???

[The Daz]

23 is a nice gun, it was the first Glock I got.
But for when something really truly needs to be dead it's hard to beat a 20.

Does anyone here have a 9x25 Dillon in a G20 frame???


I would definitely grab the 20 if the ammo were more available. Also, the muzzle flash on the 20 is so friggin' outstanding that under low light, IMHO, you'd be signaling your position to more zed than with the smaller round.

On a side note, I would love to see what a 10mm round could do to a Zombie's head...KABLAM! Zombie puree...

[J Dub]

sounds like the op has the right idea. you can't go wrong with the 1911 in .45acp. the nice thing about .45 is they leave big holes and they only get bigger :evil:

here's my norinco 1911 350.00 bucks brand new, i don't think you can get them in the US though:-(
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj123/jonwaite/photography%20kind%20of/IMG_116301.jpg

[CAVU45]

I own a Norinco 1911A1 also. It's a hell of a nice gun. I've put God knows how many rounds through it without a single problem. One of the best shooting pistols I've ever owned or fired. Too bad no new ones can be imported thanks to the Clinton/Bush ban on Chinese imports.

[Bob]

Clintoon Sucks!
I hope he and the Obamination both have a stroke...

Oh wait was I talking about live people?
Sorry, I meant after they become Zombies I hope they have a stroke.

[Darkness]

"No Politics!" :naughty:

[mattifikation]

Darkness, infringement of the Second Amendment is not politics... it's treason. Treason makes our founding fathers roll over in their graves.

And I believe this forum knows exactly what happens after dead people start rolling in their graves... ;-)

[The Daz]

Darkness, infringement of the Second Amendment is not politics... it's treason. Treason makes our founding fathers roll over in their graves.

And I believe this forum knows exactly what happens after dead people start rolling in their graves... ;-)

Mattifikation, although I enjoy your zombie tie in, I have to kindly interject that it is not treason to infringe the Second Amendment.

All this 1911 talk is reminding me of my Kimber Gold Combat II that I sold about a year ago to get money for moving...*sob* That thing would have been the perfect Zed plinker!

[hotlead]

I have to kindly interject that it is not treason to infringe the Second Amendment.

While it may not come under the charge of treason, and you'll get lots of disagreement on that, it should carry the same penalty.

As for myself, I'd not want to have to shoot any of the Founding Fathers in the head with a "pistol or small side arm" because some jackass, silver-spooned, ivy leaguers F'ed with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and made them rise from the grave and fight a second revolution as zombies, as mattification so intuitively suggested.

[The Daz]

While it may not come under the charge of treason, and you'll get lots of disagreement on that, it should carry the same penalty.

I agree 100%.

[Darkness]

"ENOUGH! I said NO POLITICS! Don't make me get Daddy!!" :naughty:

[The Daz]

"ENOUGH! I said NO POLITICS! Don't make me get Daddy!!" :naughty:

Sorry Darkness :scare:

[mitzidemarco]

I'd carry either a Desert Eagle or an LAPD SWAT Kimber 1911.

[CAVU45]

I'd carry either a Desert Eagle or an LAPD SWAT Kimber 1911.

A DEagle...:doh:

[Bob]

My favorite side arm for the Zed invasion is a Glock 17 with some 33 round mags for those rough spots.

I am not going to talk politics here but, how many of you have attended a TEA party?

How many of you know what they are?

[Dave Of The Dead]

Didn't go to one, but I heard plenty about it. On with Side Arms! I think I would go with a 1911 in .45 ACP. I've always been a big fan of those.

[hotlead]

I went to the TEA party in the next town over, where we discussed which pistol or small side arm we'd like during a zombie outbreak the whole time.

The majority chose a match conditioned 1911 type in .45acp, .40s&w, or .38super.

[mattifikation]

A TEA party would be a horrible place to be in a zombie outbreak with only a pistol or small side arm, but I wish I could have attended one anyways...

[Hitman]

Bob , I finaly got around to trying out the S. Korean glock mags for real today. I used them in an IDPA match and loaned some more out to a friend that also shot at it (he used a G19 also) . both ran fine but I think I like the G19 mags just a little better . the rounds load and feed slightly smoother in them .

I also found my ultimate last pistol I would ever need or want . its like they probed my brain and built it .

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Perfect10/Perfect10.html

now I just need $2500 plus a little extra for some spare mags

[The Daz]

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Perfect10/Perfect10.html[/url]

now I just need $2500 plus a little extra for some spare mags

I like your choice in firearms Hitman! I'm a big STI fan. You should also check out sviguns.com and you can customize your own pistol, part-by-part. Pretty cool, however most of their weapons will set ya back a cool 3 grand or so...no prob, let me just pull that out of my a$$ :roll:

[Gentech Oasis]

This is it baby. The ultimate zombie stopper.

Gentech Oasis. .22 caliber SUPPRESSED Ruger Mark Three. Silent and zero felt recoil. Time on target is non existent.

Who cares about stopping power. If you dont hit them in the head its meaningless anyways. I own one of these babies. If you hold the action still and you use subsonic ammunition you cant hear it fire!!!

[The Daz]

This is it baby. The ultimate zombie stopper.

Gentech Oasis. .22 caliber SUPPRESSED Ruger Mark Three. Silent and zero felt recoil. Time on target is non existent.

Who cares about stopping power. If you dont hit them in the head its meaningless anyways. I own one of these babies. If you hold the action still and you use subsonic ammunition you cant hear it fire!!!

That sounds pretty cool. I would be a little skeptical about the .22's ability to "destroy the brain" even with great shot placement. I haven't shot a suppressed .22 however, so I wouldn't know thing-one about its ballistics.

p.s. Isn't it the Gemtech, not Gentech?

[Gentech Oasis]

Yes of course it is. How did I screw that up? Now Im going to have to re-register with the correct spelling.

Damn it. Thank you.

[Darkness]

"PM Bad Zombie Night, he might be able to fix it for you."

[Gemtech Oasis]

Back to the beginning. Thank you....

[Bob]

22's have been discussed to death.
You might want to read some of the older posts.
There are several people (not me :cry:) here who have suppressors.

My opinion of 22 long rifle for Zed removal is the round is not reliable enough.
Some types and brands have a failure rate that must be experienced to be believed. VJ and I went shooting three weeks ago and he was shooting my Mark III hunter and was having a failure to fire of at least one in every magazine. Same dealeo in the Smith, would you want to trust your life to that?

The way to go would be a high cap 9mm with a can.

If you want to shoot at long enough ranges to recover from a ftf then why not use a rifle with a can.

Don't mean to rain on your parade here feel free to convince me I am incorrect.

[CAVU45]

A .22lr would be an unreliable stopper at the best of times, but trying to penetrate the skull with sub-sonic loads from a pistol no less? The only way that'd stop zed is when they halt to make you into a tasty snack. If you aren't concerned with stopping power just throw rocks at them. Like Bob said, the .22lr has been talked to death here. I own a Ruger 22/45 bull barrel. Nice little target pistol. I carry either a Taurus PT945 or a 1911A1...

[The Daz]

Back to the beginning. Thank you....

No problem man, simple mistake :)

I agree that .22s have been talked about far too much. I don't think, even without a suppressor and subsonic ammo, that the .22 would be a good choice. I just didn't want to put it so "as a matter-of-fact" type of way as to offend a fellow new member.

[CAVU45]

No problem man, simple mistake :)

I agree that .22s have been talked about far too much. I don't think, even without a suppressor and subsonic ammo, that the .22 would be a good choice. I just didn't want to put it so "as a matter-of-fact" type of way as to offend a fellow new member.

Is there a polite way to tell someone that you think their choice of defensive pistol sucks pond water? :) I don't think being straight forward or matter of fact is in itself rude, just honest.

[The Daz]

You're quite right.

[J Dub]

jmo.

i would only use a .22 on someone i despise with a deep intestinal fortitude, as chances are it would bring a slow and painful death. even a head shot with a .22 is not a for sure kill. many times when it is a kill, the light bullet just spins around in the skull (like a pebble in a can) tearing up gray matter. only a fool would hunt zombies with a .22. kind of like going grizzly hunting with a sling shot.

if you want reliable, go old school and get a revolver. i like my smith & wesson 686 in .357 magnum, 5 inch barrel non fluted 7 shot cylinder. never a issue with it, it is accurate as stink and can shoot both .38special and .357magnum.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj123/jonwaite/photography%20kind%20of/IMG_10091.jpg

[Gemtech Oasis]

Well Im new so I wouldnt know about .22's being talked to death. Sorry. While I understand your counter points the ammunition I usually use (Wolf Match target etc) is very reliable. Ive got over a 100,000 rounds of the stuff so that's what Id be using. I stand by my proclamation, a .22 in the head is good enough. Felt recoil and time on target is an issue when youre addressing multiple targets. Let's say one shot to the head isnt enough. Id say that 85% of the time it will be, but if its not a second shot is very fast and easy with a .22 rifle/pistol. Everybody has their opinion. A good .22 is going to penetrate the skill and bounce around inside for a while. It will certainly do the job. The ammunition is light and easy to carry. Im not against larger calibers. I have a number of AR's, AUG's and FN's. I'd certainly have those with me in one way or another. If speed is an issue, the lighter you are the better.

Thanks.

[Hitman]

good to see you got your name fixed . the integral suppresors are cool but I prefer the can type . here is my ruger .22 with the silencer I designed for my company . after shooting lots of stuff with the .22 I'll just be using it from a protected location once the zeds come . the barrel is short enough to keep most everything subsonic with this combo also.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/bobsboobs/MKII2.jpg

[LiftWidget]

I think I would go for some tactical gun... like.. Walther P22 Supressed. Yes yes, great idea :drinking:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/p22_package.jpg

[Gemtech Oasis]

good to see you got your name fixed . the integral suppresors are cool but I prefer the can type . here is my ruger .22 with the silencer I designed for my company . after shooting lots of stuff with the .22 I'll just be using it from a protected location once the zeds come . the barrel is short enough to keep most everything subsonic with this combo also.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/bobsboobs/MKII2.jpg


Hitman, when I got the Gemtech Oasis I was trying to decide between that and a can. Sounds like you're in the know. Can you tell me the decibel difference between an integral suppressor (longer, more baffles etc) and a can? I always thought the can would be louder.

[CAVU45]

Well Im new so I wouldnt know about .22's being talked to death. Sorry. While I understand your counter points the ammunition I usually use (Wolf Match target etc) is very reliable. Ive got over a 100,000 rounds of the stuff so that's what Id be using. I stand by my proclamation, a .22 in the head is good enough. Felt recoil and time on target is an issue when youre addressing multiple targets. Let's say one shot to the head isnt enough. Id say that 85% of the time it will be, but if its not a second shot is very fast and easy with a .22 rifle/pistol. Everybody has their opinion. A good .22 is going to penetrate the skill and bounce around inside for a while. It will certainly do the job. The ammunition is light and easy to carry. Im not against larger calibers. I have a number of AR's, AUG's and FN's. I'd certainly have those with me in one way or another. If speed is an issue, the lighter you are the better.

Thanks.

This reminded me of a e-mail I received from a SWAT instructor in response to my query regarding the .22lr and penetration. Here's a link to the article which prompted the question.
http://www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/121793-High-performance-shooting-The-head-shot/

Here's the authors response with my question below it;
"Dear Sir:

Given the right angle and the right area of impact, the .22 will get the job
done. However, conditions will have to be ideal for it to work. Impact
energy would be minimal if the shot was less than perfect. I wouldn't recommend it
as a first choice.


In a message dated 12/31/2008 11:31:48 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
xxxx@xxxxx.com writes:

I read with interest Mr. Avery's article and had one question concerning it.
How would a .22 pistol or rifle fair in those conditions from a purely
defensive perspective?"

So there you have it "...conditions will have to be ideal for it to work."

[3030]

It's been far too long since I posted in this topic...

Anyways, after a long shooting session in the woods today with my .480, I had a question pop into my head... well two actually, 1. why the hell are the funnest guns to shoot the most expensive? and 2. in a zombie outbreak, would I rather have a high capacity, lower caliber handgun or a low capacity, higher caliber handgun...

Obviously the second questions is the one I am asking you guys. I think I might have mentioned it previously, but its a hard question. I think it comes down to where you live. I personally live outside a medium sized city in PA, but right in the middle of the woods near Lake Erie really close to Ohio. We get everything from deer to the occassional bear. We are also riddled with meth labs. So in my neck of the woods, carrying a 9mm through the woods would be pointless. However, if you lived in a city where there are tons of people and no wildlife, I could see why u'd choose the 9mm or the .45. I'd just be interested in hearing why you guys chose what you did, maybe get a discussion going thats more in depth than "oh, idk if that caliber is enough..." or something like that.

Cheers

[hotlead]

Around California .45acp or .357mag will handle just about anything you'd use a pistol/revolver for, weather it's defense in town or in the bush. The occasional bear up in the sierras warrants those folks carrying .44mag and up.

I think the most fun gun I have is an old Marlin Mod.60, I got it for $35 when I was 16 :)

[Hitman]

Hitman, when I got the Gemtech Oasis I was trying to decide between that and a can. Sounds like you're in the know. Can you tell me the decibel difference between an integral suppressor (longer, more baffles etc) and a can? I always thought the can would be louder.

the integrals are generally quieter but its not a huge amount . the cans have the advantage of being moved around from gun to gun . most newer designs are pretty quiet in thier own right as well as being user serviceable. as you can see in my pic the size diff is not that great either (4" barrel + 5" can )

[Sin]

The best choice is a weapon that is accurate and doesn't take to long to reload.
M1 rifle comes to mind or something else like that seeing that most men who hunt have a weapon like such so extra ammo would be easy to come by.

[mattifikation]

It's been far too long since I posted in this topic...

Anyways, after a long shooting session in the woods today with my .480, I had a question pop into my head... well two actually, 1. why the hell are the funnest guns to shoot the most expensive? and 2. in a zombie outbreak, would I rather have a high capacity, lower caliber handgun or a low capacity, higher caliber handgun...

Obviously the second questions is the one I am asking you guys. I think I might have mentioned it previously, but its a hard question. I think it comes down to where you live. I personally live outside a medium sized city in PA, but right in the middle of the woods near Lake Erie really close to Ohio. We get everything from deer to the occassional bear. We are also riddled with meth labs. So in my neck of the woods, carrying a 9mm through the woods would be pointless. However, if you lived in a city where there are tons of people and no wildlife, I could see why u'd choose the 9mm or the .45. I'd just be interested in hearing why you guys chose what you did, maybe get a discussion going thats more in depth than "oh, idk if that caliber is enough..." or something like that.

Cheers

You're near me, I think. I'm about an hour and a half to an hour from Erie, depending on who's driving. How far are you from Franklin, PA?

I generally feel that a 9mm is adequate protection here. Sure, it might make a small hole in a black bear... but how often does a bear actually attack? It's not a common thing. I think if you fired several medium caliber rounds into a bear, it would probably either give up and run away or just pass out from the sudden drop in blood pressure.

[Hitman]

It's been far too long since I posted in this topic...

Anyways, after a long shooting session in the woods today with my .480, I had a question pop into my head... well two actually, 1. why the hell are the funnest guns to shoot the most expensive? and 2. in a zombie outbreak, would I rather have a high capacity, lower caliber handgun or a low capacity, higher caliber handgun...

Obviously the second questions is the one I am asking you guys. I think I might have mentioned it previously, but its a hard question. I think it comes down to where you live. I personally live outside a medium sized city in PA, but right in the middle of the woods near Lake Erie really close to Ohio. We get everything from deer to the occassional bear. We are also riddled with meth labs. So in my neck of the woods, carrying a 9mm through the woods would be pointless. However, if you lived in a city where there are tons of people and no wildlife, I could see why u'd choose the 9mm or the .45. I'd just be interested in hearing why you guys chose what you did, maybe get a discussion going thats more in depth than "oh, idk if that caliber is enough..." or something like that.

Cheers


a .357 mag with hot hard cast flatpoint bullets or larger in a revolver should work for black bear , remember zombie bears don't bleed out . in the highly likely chance that the first shot at the head misses I'd want to have a chance of busting one of the front shoulders up .

auto pistols would either be a hot 10mm or the .460 rowland both with FMJ bullets . all the above would also work on 2 legged zombies also . don't forget the big cats that have been reported in the area as well .

[Bob]

It would be nice if fresh zombies were considered prey by animals.
I wonder if Buzzards are going to eat the decaying ones?
I would hate to think about huge flocks of buzzards.
Imagine if you will buzzard poop falling like rain from the sky. YUK!

[J Dub]

jmo...

for the life of me i don't understand the attraction to a under powered round as is the case with the .22lr. only those i would call "mall ninjas" would even consider this as a useful round in a shtf scenario. a sling shot has more impact energy than a weak subsonic .22.
playing video's in no way translates into what REALLY goes on outside the box.

if you need to carry a .22 cause its light and easy...you must be like 7 years old. suppressed i admit looks cool and are probably a hoot to shoot, but keep it real folks.

try to keep to the simple easy to find calibers 308, 223, 38spl, 357mag, .45acp, 9mm etc. 10mm is a exceptional round but due to the difficulty in finding reliable ammo supply up here i stay away from it.
460 & 500 are sick rounds, and would drop anything that walks this planet with a well placed shot. but for urban i'd say ney, too much flash too much blast...just too much :lol:

[3030]

Matt, I guess it all depends what county you're in, as there are 4 Franklin, PA's :loon:

Anyways, I see where everyone is coming from saying that an auto round (or a .357) is enough for just about everything that you would stumble across. I really don't know how to fight this, and I am too tired to do so. However, I love my large bore revolver, and I'm accurate with it, and that's all that matters.

I'm really not so sure about a 9mm though, and even a .45 wouldnt feel like enough for me. I'm not saying I'm extra strong or anything but I don't have a problem with large calibers, and follow up shots are usually really quick. I guess it all depends on the person. Since I would rather carry a single handgun rather than a rifle and handgun, I just figured I'd make that pistol a larger caliber and accurate so that I can take down targets at good distances if need be.

[Bob]

Recoil to a degree is a subjective thing.
I have always liked big bore hand guns.
I also like the muzzle blast and flash.

Replacing a rifle/carbine with a big bore handgun is just silly though.
It is much easier to hit with a long arm than a handgun.
We both know that.

My gear for Zed is a CAR and a G17.
High capacity, low recoil.
This is the way to go.

As for a go to handgun I would say 10mm or 45 acp.
I grew up hearing about the inadequacies of 9mm.
With today's high performance ammunition I don't think that is the problem it once was.

[J Dub]

don't get me wrong. i love big bore hand cannons as much as the next guy. i was just thinking in a shtf situation supplies will be short and fringe rounds such as the 460 and 500 or even .50ae will be hard to find.
the 1911 in .45acp is arguably all you would ever need. but i would still prefer a hi-power rifle for the longer shots. hand cannons are typically not worth a pinch of poo past 100 yards as far as accuracy is concerned. the bullets weight of the larger calibers 230gr or higher will drop like a shot put past 200 yards.

i think if i had a 460 or 500 i would armpit it and use it for "just in case" situations :evil:

[Gemtech Oasis]

jmo...

for the life of me i don't understand the attraction to a under powered round as is the case with the .22lr. only those i would call "mall ninjas" would even consider this as a useful round in a shtf scenario. a sling shot has more impact energy than a weak subsonic .22.
playing video's in no way translates into what REALLY goes on outside the box.

if you need to carry a .22 cause its light and easy...you must be like 7 years old. suppressed i admit looks cool and are probably a hoot to shoot, but keep it real folks.

try to keep to the simple easy to find calibers 308, 223, 38spl, 357mag, .45acp, 9mm etc. 10mm is a exceptional round but due to the difficulty in finding reliable ammo supply up here i stay away from it.
460 & 500 are sick rounds, and would drop anything that walks this planet with a well placed shot. but for urban i'd say ney, too much flash too much blast...just too much :lol:


So you don't understand, that doesn't mean I don't! I have more guns that you've had birhtdays, anniversaries, doctors appointments, dentist appointments, etc etc etc!:lol: Ive been shooting since I was four. With all that crap said we arent talking about taking long shots with a .22. We're talking close range fast multi zombie shots where a gun with no recoil comes in handy. Besides, I already said that I'd carry a Glock 22 and I'd have a number or AR's with me.

Yada yada yada.

[detpat]

i think the 22 is marginal, but a suppressed 22 is a great quiet clean up tool. if you don't want to attract attention. a suppressed 22 isn't a general combat arm, but a special too and should be utilized within it's envelope!

i think it would be useful against zeds, but actively hostile live looters or raiders etc, not so much.

for more general use a suppressed 9mm would be a better choice. hell get a can for you AR!

[mattifikation]

I'm in the Franklin in Venango County, between Pittsburgh and Erie.

I forgot about the big cats. My old roomie said he's found tracks by the cemetery he works at. I still don't think I'd need a big bore revolver for them, though.

It just comes to this... when there's 30 zombies closing in on me, I don't want to have to reload a revolver after every 8 shots. No sir.

[J Dub]

.
Yada yada yada.


i likely have boots that are older and tougher than you :lol:

seriously. if you are a shooter as you state you are. you obviously know of the notoriety of squib .22s. i've yet in "all" :) my years to have a fail to fire with a centre fire cartridge. i have had many many squib .22s with great pin contact in both rifle and handgun (ruger) but no boom. winchester comes to mind as one of the worse ones, but federal has its share too.

add to that the fact the .22 round is not going to give you 100% success on head shots (zombie skull not squirrel).
i'm not slamming the .22 i think its a bonafide survival round for hunting, just not saving your arse from zombies.

just my .02 again, and up here with the exchange its only about a cent :lol:

[Brutish Sailor]

a 22. for zombie combat? this is a double sided blade.

It doesn't matter if its parasite or infection, what its going to animate a zombie to come after you is the red highlighted section here.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee69/Brutish/zombiekill.jpg

NOW, it might forgo this and control the automated body via the Cerebellum, which in return might make sense as far as overriding all that was human of this former shell.

This would be a MUCH harder target for zombie killing, as you would now need to go:

1) from behind with a round placed in the back of the lower skull
2) make a shot from the front that with the intention of this round going towards the back of the neck.


I would highly recommend shooting low on the head in the event that the (whatever) is in fact using the cerebellum to automate a body. If you can, get a slight high ground advantage and aim for a soft spot of the skull near the nasal cavity.

As far as what round, If I was taking on zombies and got to pick? 357. round will do the trick nicely, but I would opt for 22 on the basis of close combat with fewer targets, based on the fact that minimum splatter is preferred. Less splatter, less likely to spread an infection. (see doomsday for this in example)

[J Dub]

i see dead people. but that's ok, better them than me.

[CAVU45]

Using a .22 for ANY combat is tantamount to suicide. There's a reason no military or police unit uses them for fighting.

[Brutish Sailor]

But at the same time, all military combat and police combat teaches shots to center mass, the reason why they are going to be easily overpowered in the times to come.

In the current situation, yes. Shots to center mass from a .22 would be very ineffective. HOWEVER, in the event of head shots being paramount, and taking the effect that any body fluids of the undead should be ranked up with the IDLH Hazmat category, I would offer civilians a .22 rifle. A great gun for the inexperienced. Accurate, easy to carry the ammo, easy to fire, good for wear and tear. PLUS no kick back.

Its the kind of gun you could put in a 9 YO's hands and say ,"fight for your life."

[CAVU45]

[/QUOTE]But at the same time, all military combat and police combat teaches shots to center mass, the reason why they are going to be easily overpowered in the times to come.[/QUOTE]

So an inexperienced civilian with a mousegun will fair better than highly trained soldiers and police with proper combat weaponry? I've actually taken this very question to a SWAT sniper trainer and his thoughts were, don't do it. The shot placement would have to be near perfect and the margin for error extreme.

[Brutish Sailor]

Im not saying put them on the front line over experienced soldiers, but I would for sure choose them to be a last stand.

"Mouse guns" rifles come cheap and the ammo a dime a dozen. Realistically we both know that most civilians first reaction will not be to shoot up close. Too many senses and reactions will be there to properly defend themselves at close combat with the undead. The smell, look of gore, sounds of dead automation will put the civilian population at close combat like a dear in the headlights.

Not to include the gasses coming off of the freshly deteriorating (H2S or hydrogen sulfide, call it as you see it)

I could take this 1000 different directions, but when the military, which will be dispatched first gets infected, the close quarters and casualties will leave them open season. I see you metals so I know you have been through CBR training. I will leave it at that.

Medical staff cross contaminate troops, infection spreads.
Blood transfusions from the infected.....ect.

I would rather have the civilian population operating easy bolt action rifles than trying to chamber rounds using semi- full automatics without injuring themselves or others.

That's when I believe you will see the most casualties.

[CAVU45]

Im not saying put them on the front line over experienced soldiers, but I would for sure choose them to be a last stand.

"Mouse guns" rifles come cheap and the ammo a dime a dozen. Realistically we both know that most civilians first reaction will not be to shoot up close. Too many senses and reactions will be there to properly defend themselves at close combat with the undead. The smell, look of gore, sounds of dead automation will put the civilian population at close combat like a dear in the headlights.

Not to include the gasses coming off of the freshly deteriorating (H2S or hydrogen sulfide, call it as you see it)

I could take this 1000 different directions, but when the military, which will be dispatched first gets infected, the close quarters and casualties will leave them open season. I see you metals so I know you have been through CBR training. I will leave it at that.

Medical staff cross contaminate troops, infection spreads.
Blood transfusions from the infected.....ect.

I would rather have the civilian population operating easy bolt action rifles than trying to chamber rounds using semi- full automatics without injuring themselves or others.

That's when I believe you will see the most casualties.

Yep, took all that training. I also trained as a Combat Lifesaver and used those skills during a combat tour at Baghdad, Taji, and Balad in Iraq. Even on the battlefield cross contamination is minimal with the gloves and sterilized equipment we're given to treat injured soldiers with. Blood transfusions would be given at a CSH and doubtful would be drawn from infected people (those injured from bites, etc.). What's disturbing in all the scenarios I see and propogated by genre fiction is that the military would be overrun in no time flat. Fact is the modern soldier is adept at adapting to a changing scenario. That's how we kept our casualties down in Iraq during some of the fiercest fighting and the insurgents ever changing tactics. The average soldier would figure out PDQ how to survive and what tactics worked best against the enemy. Now, given that we agree that an untrained civilian will not fight up close, what good would a mousegun do them? I don't believe a .22lr bullet will penetrate from anything considered a "safe" distance. I think they would be better served with a centerfire cartridge like the .22-250, .220Swift, .222Remington, .224Weatherby... in other words, a good varmint cartridge for a bolt gun or even a lever action rifle. This would give the standoff capability and still get the needed penetration easily at 100yds. Be that as it may, I wouldn't want an untrained civilian anywhere near me with any rifle on a battlefield. That's a recipe for disaster. They may be able to figure out how to shoot the gun, but aiming is another matter entirely and there's still the safety factor to consider.

[Brutish Sailor]

Yep, took all that training. I also trained as a Combat Lifesaver and used those skills during a combat tour at Baghdad, Taji, and Balad in Iraq. Even on the battlefield cross contamination is minimal with the gloves and sterilized equipment we're given to treat injured soldiers with. Blood transfusions would be given at a CSH and doubtful would be drawn from infected people (those injured from bites, etc.). What's disturbing in all the scenarios I see and propogated by genre fiction is that the military would be overrun in no time flat. Fact is the modern soldier is adept at adapting to a changing scenario. That's how we kept our casualties down in Iraq during some of the fiercest fighting and the insurgents ever changing tactics. The average soldier would figure out PDQ how to survive and what tactics worked best against the enemy. Now, given that we agree that an untrained civilian will not fight up close, what good would a mousegun do them? I don't believe a .22lr bullet will penetrate from anything considered a "safe" distance. I think they would be better served with a centerfire cartridge like the .22-250, .220Swift, .222Remington, .224Weatherby... in other words, a good varmint cartridge for a bolt gun or even a lever action rifle. This would give the standoff capability and still get the needed penetration easily at 100yds. Be that as it may, I wouldn't want an untrained civilian anywhere near me with any rifle on a battlefield. That's a recipe for disaster. They may be able to figure out how to shoot the gun, but aiming is another matter entirely and there's still the safety factor to consider.
I agree that the soldier will figure out how to adapt yes. I cant share my personal experiences, though I would love to share them on a more secure channel sometime. The whole adaptation will depend on the given spread of the outbreak. When the P and R of embarkation is in effect, yes, I think military force will work. HOWEVER, you factor in a couple of things into a physiology of a soldier.

1) This attack will be on our soil. The factor of immediate mobilization while families of soldiers are at risk should be taken into consideration.

2) This outbreak will cause immediate disruption in the ranks. A vast amount of higher ups will be lost.

3) Panic from family will cause deserters. The first reaction from some soldiers will be to get home and secure loved ones. The usual chain for recall will be disrupted, and this will cause breaks in the links to mobilize.

4) Large scale bombing will come with the price of losing survivors in the process.

5) FMF corpsman/advanced first aid may use sterile equipment and tested bags, but this is on the planned scenario. The hospitals are going to be the first places where you see this outbreak spread. Sick children will be brought to any hospital that has room. the CDC will be flipping hell at the hospitals with advanced cases, under the false hope that this ailment can be cured. Then they will be screaming about how someone that had no pulse got up and bit two people. They will be too busy studing this modern day cadaver to take in effect the outcome of these newly infected individuals.


So yes, in the event that they can mobilize fast enough, our military stands a chance. However, if the mobilization consist of a bunch of PFC's and maybe a sarge calling the shots, I think it wont be the zombies that really do them in, I think it will be the infection, panic from the public, and the fact that no one will realy be sure WHERE to mobilize. You will have military families running all over base, civilians in masses trying to get into base, possibly going through decom procedures, a possible base clinic that needs to be sanitized nationwide (and those can get huge) fear and panic over contamination once the MRE's run out, power losses at electrical plants (I will have to ask a friend how long a plant can "dead man stick" it.) and overall a longrun of demoralized troops.

Thats a pretty long run on sentence.

I think at that point, the black water agency will have better odds of support.




I'll pick this up in the morning, pretty tired.

[Bob]

Generally when I talk about 22 long rifle for anti-zed activities I am against it due to reliability issues.
I have experience with those, never having shot a human living or dead in the head I don't have experience with that.
I keep hoping an ER or Trauma doc will find his way onto a Zombie forum but alas that has not happened.

A friend and I bought a name brand of 22 long rifle, it was target quality, one step from their top of the line.
It was so bad the manufacturer exchanged it 1.5 to one and apologized saying there was a problem with the crimping process.
Assuming I had shot thousands of rounds of this stuff and put some away.
What if that had been my stash?
I might not have known until it was to late.

I have never had a center fire cartridge fail to go bang, including untold thousands of rounds of hand loads.
Up until loaded ammunition and components for hand loading got scarce I was shooting about a thousand rounds a month.

Component cost drove me to shoot more 22 and I tried many brands.
Federal 510 is for the cost the best thing going or was anyway.
I have not seen any on the shelf since last year.

A while back a friend and I did some chronograph tests of several different types of 22lr out of several different guns.
I am pretty sure I posted those results here at some point, if not it should be over on the gun forum if you are interested.

I have been thinking about doing that again in the near future.
If you have a specific brand you would like tested let me know.
If you have a chrono you could post your results and we could combine them into a comprehensive document.

To summarize
22 long rifle is not reliable enough to stake my life on a single shot.

I think a suppressed 22 is a great thing, it has it's place.
However it's place is not as a primary weapon.

As for the penetration since General Hatcher is dead the real tests will never take place.
Our gubberment is to pc to allow test like the ones done way back then to be done now so all we have is opinion.

[J Dub]

come on folks, enough with the .22 debate.

they are a useless round in combat mode and only a fool or "mall ninja" would say otherwise.

i wonder if half of the people who add their .02 even own guns...but this is not a secure channel for communicating :loon:

and for a comment to be made about hunting ammo being cheap...shows your complete lack of knowledge on firearms in general.

so sad to see so many sheeple living out of comic books.

[Brutish Sailor]

http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/22_ammunition.html

.22 ammo being sold cheap. With references to back up my statements.
Bit your right, I live in San Diego, and the last time I had an opportunity to fire a gun was in Mexico.
Its a little too PC here for bringing a gun in the house.

I'll leave this gun talk to the pro's, different strokes for different folks.

But your right, this isn't a secure channel to talk about this. I don't read comics BTW.

[CAVU45]

.22lr ammo is cheap compared to centerfire ammo. That doesn't make it good for defense, just means it's cheap.

Your scenario appears to assume that an outbreak would be widespread and fast moving which may or may not be the case.

[Darkness]

"A small reminder.......This thread is not about using a pistol, or sidearm, as your primary weapon. It's to discuss what pistol, or sidearm, you would carry as a back up type weapon." :roll:


"We are not implying that this pistol, or side arm, will be used as your main weapon, we ain't quite that dumb." :lol:

[mattifikation]

If you could only cary one gun, a pistol, what would it be?

A pistol with spare ammo. thats it.

I would cary a 1911 with 7 7-round magazines. thats 49 rounds on hand with a spare for myself (if I need it)

you?

It sounds to me as if we ARE being asked what we'd do if we could only carry a sidearm.

[Darkness]

"It means, if you only had room for One Pistol, as a back up weapon, what one would you carry."

"The OP agreed, that was the original idea. It does not say that said sidearm has to be the only weapon you use in the fight." ;-)

[J Dub]

backup piece eh??

Darkness could back me up, i think she's good to go in the cannon dept :lol:

i'd go with a smith & wesson 460 in a 5 inch package. yeah it's only 5 shots and yeah its a heavy beyotch, but when i want back up..dammit

I WANT BACKUP

:lol::lol:

[DeAdLY SiNZz]

i'd take a glock 17, accurate, nice clip size of about 18 bullets, and nice power and easy relaod and a few extra clips to boot

[Dave Of The Dead]

i'd take a glock 17, accurate, nice clip size of about 18 bullets, and nice power and easy relaod and a few extra clips to boot

Uh oh, you just broke a Bob rule... its cartridges or rounds.

[CAVU45]

Magazines, not clips. Cartridges or rounds, not bullets.

[Bob]

Tsk Tsk
Bullet = Projectile

I am going to let you slide this time but watch it... :x

[Darkness]

"And you all would have known that, had you visited this........."
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17282
".........Thread." ;-) :)

[hotlead]

We'll learn these youngsters yet. :doh: :dunce:

[NotoriousDIT]

just a sweet little 9mm would be nice, pretty easy to find on the blackmarket down here, too.

[Birdman44]

I wouldn't really mind a 9mm, but a .40s&w would have me in my comfort zone. I feel safe using .40's since the police around here use them and because they use them I'de find a lot more people who would know how to fix it better than me and maybe have some spare ammo for when i run out for the zeds :evil:

[bandits1]

It sounds to me as if we ARE being asked what we'd do if we could only carry a sidearm.
That's what I understood from the wording of the initial post. ONE gun...and that one gun is a pistol.

[3030]

J Dub, I love the way you think. I feel the same, if you have a sidearm for back-up, you want to make sure it can back you up in all situations. I didn't think anyone else in this world prefered a hand cannon over a little pistol caliber.

[Birdman44]

I'm not sure how much of a hand cannon you consider it, but I have a .44mag which is the biggest revolver round I've fired. I haven't fired it enough to reach my comfort zone seeing as my dad doesn't have many rounds at a time for it, but it definately will finish anything here in Jersey :evil:

[Bob]

I like 44mag.
I used to shoot a lot of it when I was younger.
A Smith 29 is still on my list.
I need to replace one that some dirtbag stole.

[3030]

Well, Birdman, I consider the .460 one hell of a hand cannon, and extremely accurate as well. I feel the same with my .480, yet I am still very, very comfortable shooting it. If you can shoot a .44 with heavy loads, then you can shoot a .480 without much issue. Plus you get that extra "oh-my-god-thats-a-huge-freakin'-round" factor. Not for show, but for performance I mean. :evil:

[homelitexl]

well i think ill take a sawn off 16 gauge tecnically its sort of a pistol if it dont count then i guess ol reliable my 357 mag

[sk8rmichael]

i would have to say either my dads 38 which i love O.o im a rly good shot with it or a beretta im fixin on buyin me one :D i wouldnt go any higher than a 45 cus i cant get as acurat witha 44 cus my wrists are to small:doh: lol my dads 44 i would never use it has alot of power but i cant handle it >.<

[kiltedninja]

My brother's dad carried a Desert Eagle because he was big enough to shoot one like a 9mm, he was 7'6".

I'd carry a 1911, probably like ten magazines, my best friend has seven for his, and he's giving it to me in the event of Zday.

[bandits1]

My brother's dad carried a Desert Eagle because he was big enough to shoot one like a 9mm, he was 7'6"...
Your brother's dad is Shawn Bradley?

One of the strikes against the DE isn't just it's heft, it's that the calibers it's chambered for - with the exception of the .357 - are largely overkill for killing zombies.

[sk8rmichael]

yea a 44 or degal will probly blow ther head off and the rounds are huge any thing biger than a 45 is over kill

[zombie2x4]

no gun would be complete without hollow points:guns:

[homelitexl]

or a good ol shotgun slug

[sk8rmichael]

yea but shot gun rounds are heavy and you cant have as many rounds as other guns.... and yes hollo points :D but its good to have a balence of diff rounds as far as that goes

[Bob]

Yupper shotgun shells are heavy and so is the recoil.

[zombie2x4]

yea but shot gun rounds are heavy and you cant have as many rounds as other guns.... and yes hollo points :D but its good to have a balence of diff rounds as far as that goes

Totally like the glaser safety slug pretty much a miniature shotgun shell only without the recoil not as big spread and not as heavy

[The Voice Of Desperation]

I'd Carry a Uzi (If I could find one which isn't probably going to happen...) as a side arm and I'd keep some kind of improvised explosive so if the zeds get a hold of me I'd go out with a bang. :lol:

[Bob]

If you are near Atlanta when the end comes give me a call and I will try to hook you up with a guy who has an Uzi.

867-5309

[Darkness]

"Uzi is not a small pistol or side arm. In fact it's not even small." :naughty:

[mattifikation]

Darkness, have you ever seen a micro-uzi?

It could be used as a sidearm, albeit one on the large size. You'd have to take the folding stock off, but that's no big deal. Now, whether or not it's a good choice is another matter...

Micro-Uzi video on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k6y8VOjOhc)

[Faran Brigo]

He said "Uzi", I think that usually means the full sized model which is a submachinegun, not a sidearm. A micro-uzi would be a sidearm yeah, and so would the uzi pistol, but you can probably do better. Then again, 32 rounds per clip means longer time between reloads, that's always a good thing.

[CAVU45]

32 rounds in a magazine goes pretty fast in a full auto weapon. Controllability is another issue with the Uzi pistol. I suppose if one were a Secret Service agent or clearing a room of...wild dogs, something like the Uzi pistol would be just about perfect.

[hotlead]

Those micro-uzi's are almost as worthless a firearm as the chauchat LMG.

Inaccurate, very hard to control and a uselessly high rate of fire. They have a very limited role and you'd need a lot of training and experience with them to be effective, just my opinion.

[kiltedninja]

Your brother's dad is Shawn Bradley?

One of the strikes against the DE isn't just it's heft, it's that the calibers it's chambered for - with the exception of the .357 - are largely overkill for killing zombies.

He's like 7'3" and around 235 He's a big dude, his chambered the .44 I was more scared of the gun than him.

[Faran Brigo]

32 rounds in a magazine goes pretty fast in a full auto weapon. Controllability is another issue with the Uzi pistol. I suppose if one were a Secret Service agent or clearing a room of...wild dogs, something like the Uzi pistol would be just about perfect.

The micro-uzi is NOT the uzi pistol, the uzi pistol is semi-auto only, but it can fit the larger clips used in the submachinegun versions, which makes for a very high capacity semiauto.

[bandits1]

He's like 7'3" and around 235 He's a big dude, his chambered the .44 I was more scared of the gun than him.
235 lbs? He's a scrawny twig.

[kiltedninja]

I may be off, but he's not a thick dude, strong, but not thick. Same with my brother, and myself for that matter.

[homelitexl]

i choose that fifty cal revolver theve built now.

[Birdman44]

i choose that fifty cal revolver theve built now.

Thanks for the warning that were going to have to rescue a person with broken wrists :lol: If your talking about the bfr it is a pretty cool gun. I wouldn't want one though.

[bandits1]

i choose that fifty cal revolver theve built now.
A .50 cal revolver and a chainsaw? You're all set to survive any of the Resident Evil video games.

[Bob]

http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2005/01/the_maadi_griff.html

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6938/pistol50bmgmaadigriffin.jpg

[Birdman44]

Thats one ugly gun. The effectivness of it must be poor during a zombie invasion. Asides from going deaf and not finding 10 bmg rounds for 20 miles I believe i read it was single shot, makes sense but it would be a nightmare to have that. :scare:

[sk8rmichael]

:doh:i would break my wrist holy crap >.< why would u even need that its ginourmous hahah and its single shot isnt it you would be skrewwweedd if you were ever surounded

[mattifikation]

Nahhh. You fire one shot, it goes through 8 zeds, and then you tie it to a chain and use it as a bludgeon against the rest! :lol:

[J Dub]

how about a glock in .50 :evil:
might be a bit more manageable than a .50bmg:lol:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj123/jonwaite/50-cal-glock.jpg

[Bob]

I wonder what it costs to feed that thing...

[J Dub]

I wonder what it costs to feed that thing...

i don't know about your parts, but when i showed this to my local funshop they had never heard of the .50GI :lol:

i imagine it is for those elitists out there with more money than BRAINS :lol:

[BeyondxSilence]

If you can look it up for a picture. Do you guys think it is a stupid i dea to shoot a .600 Nitro Express to kil enemy's?

for you guys that dont know. A .600 is a 4 foot long magnum that ways 50 lbs. and has the ability to blow your arm off from the recoil.... LAWL!!1
:rock::rock::rock::rock:

[BeyondxSilence]

The Thomson Contender 'Encore' .600 Nitro Express Magnum is a single shot target pistol, its very light and dangerously uncontrollable when fired.

http://www.vincelewis.net/60magnum.html just scrool down until u see 1 with a scope!!!! :shotg::shotg::shotg:

[J Dub]

i don't know where your numbers are from but this looks like it might be a little overkill :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZL797pOAZ0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea_Q8C_67jY

[BeyondxSilence]

or something even better than the pistol would be the FN F2000

[Dark Gale]

Yah, .600 Nitro Express, rofl. You planning on going Box Car hunting after the outbreak?

[mattifikation]

Fear zombie elephants.

[ZombieJesus13]

I would .44 magnum and have a zombie follow and recite dirty hairy. Then blow their brain out.:lol::guns::zom2:

[J Dub]

Fear zombie elephants.

not if you are in a tank :lol:

now thats a zombie weapon :evil:

but yeah, a .44 will take care of most things, still partial to .45acp myself.

[erikebbesen]

if anything id go with a magnum probably the Smith and Wesson Model 500 or a glock 18c!:evil:

[Trumble0]

I'd prefer the Glock 20 or 29 in 10mm... With Double tap 165 JHP it expands to near an inch, and penetrates up to 14 inches... Thats some velocity and Ft/lbs for ya :lol:

[Bob]

10mm is serious business.
Not that there aren't rounds that will exceed it but considering the controlability and number of rounds in a G-20 that is a serious amount of firepower in a small package.
Probably overkill for a zombie but hey dance with who ya brung.

[MallNinja]

I like alot of what I hear about 10MM, but I tend to stay away from anything that isn't .45ACP when it comes to handguns. It dawned on me a few years ago that I was feeding my guns about 2 dozen different calibers, so after some trading around I'm down to two rifle calibers and one pistol caliber, being 5.56, 7.62X51, and .45ACP, but since there is a exception to prove every rule, I'm now looking into buying a revolver and rifle in the same caliber to serve as truck guns.

[CAVU45]

if anything id go with a magnum probably the Smith and Wesson Model 500 or a glock 18c!:evil:

You plan on elephant hunting or spraying a crowd?

[CAVU45]

I'm now looking into buying a revolver and rifle in the same caliber to serve as truck guns.

Same here. I've been eyeing the Ruger SP101 and Marlin 1894 in .357Mag.

[erikebbesen]

You plan on elephant hunting or spraying a crowd?

if your can aim you can kill three with one shot:clap:

[MallNinja]

Same here. I've been eyeing the Ruger SP101 and Marlin 1894 in .357Mag.

I'm leaning toward a Winchester model 92 and a Smith and Wesson in .45 colt. I had a 92 for awhile and sold it, but I miss it so I guess I'll get another one next time I see one cheap. Plus I have around 400 rounds of .45 colt hanging around collecting dust.

[mattifikation]

if your can aim you can kill three with one shot:clap:

No you can't.

You'll hit one, friction and the unpredictable transfer of energy will cause the bullet to change trajectory ever so slightly, and it will go zooming off into god knows where. Then you'll be left with four bullets, a sore hand, and lord only knows how many zombies.

[hotlead]

I'm leaning toward a Winchester model 92 and a Smith and Wesson in .45 colt. I had a 92 for awhile and sold it, but I miss it so I guess I'll get another one next time I see one cheap. Plus I have around 400 rounds of .45 colt hanging around collecting dust.

I might suggest a 92 and a 686 or SP101 in .357mag, .357mag/.38spl is much easier to find and cheaper than .45LC. Mrs. Hotlead has an old Mod. 92 and a 686, and she likes 'em just fine, and gets decent groups at 100yds out of the 92 with some stout .357s.

[kiltedninja]

My friend has a Smith and Wesson 686, his late dad's old police service pistol, we've shot it a couple times, and it was awesome. I'd love to have that thing in ZPAW. My dad and uncle both have Colt 1911's, the uncle uses that as his EDC.

[CAVU45]

if your can aim you can kill three with one shot:clap:



Yeh, right. Spoken like a true amateur.

[MallNinja]

Yeh, right. Spoken like a true amateur.

professionals are predictable, armatures kill themselves before you ever get the chance.

[MallNinja]

I might suggest a 92 and a 686 or SP101 in .357mag, .357mag/.38spl is much easier to find and cheaper than .45LC. Mrs. Hotlead has an old Mod. 92 and a 686, and she likes 'em just fine, and gets decent groups at 100yds out of the 92 with some stout .357s.

I may very well look into this. I keep guns I'm willing to lose forever as truck guns, and it sounds like your idea might be a little cheaper given ammo cost.

[Slayer]

Give me a .38 special revolver with a 3-4 inch barrel and I can shoot accurately enough to hit a zombie in the head at up to 50 yards when using single action. I find that I can shoot well with Revolvers, but I can't hit a thing with semi auto handguns. That said, when I use one in double action, it becomes a torso accuracy weapon at half the range. I don't know if it's just me (could be just me with semi autos too) or if it's just the limitations of handgun accuracy.

[CAVU45]

professionals are predictable, armatures kill themselves before you ever get the chance.

*LOL* Ain't it the truth!!

[Bob]

I still shoot more than a couple of calibers but there are some that stand out.
45 acp
.223
.308
12 gauge

These days I shoot more 12 gauge than anything else.
It's easy to find and cheap to shoot.
I can shoot 100 12 gauge field loads for the price of 40 .223 or 20 .308
I saw a Winchester white box of 45acp priced at $54 at Sports Authority.
I paid $24 a box for .380.

Dang the obamination to heck.

[erikebbesen]

Yeh, right. Spoken like a true amateur.

i dont no much about that weapon but im no noob

[CAVU45]

i dont no much about that weapon but im no noob

I didn't say you were a newbie. I said you were an amateur.

I've seen a lot of good choices, but I'd still have to go with my old reliable 1911A1. I think it's probably about the perfect combat sidearm.

[FFG]

I would go with my 3rd Generation G22. I have bunches of mags and ammo.

Some people consider the rail "tacti-cool" and worthless. I tend to disagree and plan on mounting my Sig light/laser on the G22 if it is Z-day.

[Frallon]

I've always liked the 357 snub, but idk, it's between that or a Taurus PT 92

[erikebbesen]

I didn't say you were a newbie. I said you were an amateur.

I've seen a lot of good choices, but I'd still have to go with my old reliable 1911A1. I think it's probably about the perfect combat sidearm.

that actually is a good choice

[erikebbesen]

Ease of use: Revolvers are truly point and shoot. No safeties or complex procedures inhibit putting a revolver into action. Some semi-autos require several steps to place them into action, allowing room for error in critical situations.
Reliability: Blockages and malfunctions are virtually impossible in a revolver. A dud round is cleared by a simple pull of the trigger. Several types of blockages and malfunctions are possible (and fairly common) in semi-autos. With single action semi-autos one must rack the slide, or possibly take more extensive action, to clear a malfunction, which takes the pistol out of the shooting position. Single/double action and double action only autoloaders allow more than one firing pin impact upon the primer of a round which fails to fire. See Tap Rack Bang.
Ruggedness: Revolvers have a simpler, more rugged and robust design.
More stopping power: The largest and most powerful handgun rounds are rimmed rounds for revolvers only, owing to their sturdier design.
Revolvers will easily fire blank ammunition. Most semi-autos will not fully cycle with blank cartridges, causing malfunctions. Semi-auto pistols must be specially modified to properly cycle with blank ammunition, as in the case of prop weapons for cinema. This modification renders them incapable of firing any other cartridge type.
Spent cartridges are kept in the cylinder whereas a semi-auto ejects them. This is useful for reloaders.
Storage: Revolvers and speedloaders can be stored loaded indefinitely with no issues. Semi-auto magazines have springs under tension when loaded.
More variety in ammunition: Revolvers can chamber virtually any cartridge, including wadcutters, which will malfunction a semi-auto. This makes revolvers more appealing to many sport shooters. Additionally, revolvers can load certain interchangeable cartridges, those with identical calibers but different case lengths. Interchangeable cartridges include .22 short/long/long rifle, .357 magnum/.38 special, .44 magnum/.44 special, and .45 Colt/.410 shotshells (on some, check first).
Better sights: Sights are mounted to a fixed barrel, theoretically allowing greater accuracy.
Easier to determine if loaded: cartridges in a loaded revolver are readily apparent. An unloaded semi-auto is often visually identical to a loaded one.
Easier to clean and maintain: Revolvers have few exposed moving pieces and do not require disassembly. There is no risk of loss or breakage of pieces with a revolver. Semi-autos must be disassembled for cleaning, which may be difficult and risks losing or breaking vital pieces in the field or in darkness.
Speedloaders: Speedloaders are quicker and easier to fill than magazines. Speedloaders and magazines load their weapons with comparable speed, but speedloaders are bulkier. Also see advantage under "Storage" above.
[edit]Advantages of semi-automatics


Smith & Wesson 9mm semi-automatic.
Larger ammo capacity: semi-automatics typically carry 8 to 20 or more rounds; most revolvers carry 6 rounds, although some carry 5, 7, 8, or even up to 10 in .22 caliber. A few jurisdictions limit the magazine capacity on handguns to 10 rounds, largely negating this advantage in these places. Furthermore pistols with larger magazines are unsuitable for people with smaller hands again in practice negating the advantage of large magazines, for example Smith and Wesson markets its J frame "Lady Smith" revolvers as being suitable for smaller female palms.
Better combat reloading: Magazines, while slower and more difficult to fill, are simpler to place into operation and more ergonomic to carry than speedloaders.
Quieter: With similar ammunition, a semi-auto is typically slightly quieter. Flash and noise can be suppressed. Noise and flash suppressors are ineffective in most revolvers due to noise and flash escaping the gap between the cylinder and the barrel.
Less expensive ammunition: semi-autos often fire standard military ammunition, which is more readily available and cheaper thanks to extensive mass production. However, popular revolver cartridges such as .38 Special are comparable in their cost and availability to popular autoloading cartridges such as 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP.
Autoloaders have a significantly slimmer and easier to conceal frame as they do not suffer from the bulge produced by the revolver's cylinder.
Some contemporary automatics are made of light-weight materials, (such as polymer) making them lighter and more comfortable to carry for long periods. Polymer frames are impractical on revolvers, and the weight savings would be minimal as the main sources of weight are the barrel and cylinder which cannot be polymer.(The revolver barrel and cylinder can be made out of light metals such as titanium or scandium[citation needed] thus making this advantage negligible. ex: The Smith and Wesson air weight can weigh as little as 12 ounces.[citation needed])
The nature of most semi-auto's operation makes the trigger pull much easier after the first round is fired, allowing for quick and accurate follow-up shots. Revolvers will always have strong trigger pulls unless the hammer is cocked before each shot, which greatly slows the shooter's rate of fire.
Although relatively rare even with wartime ammunition, hangfires pose a unique risk for revolvers which does not exist for autoloaders. During rapid fire, a hangfire which occurs in a revolver can result in a round firing from a chamber not aligned with the barrel, with negative consequences for the piece and possibly the shooter. This failure mode does not exist with autoloaders.
Most semi-autos incorporate an external safety switch, which is a visual and tactile cue that the weapon is safe. However, newer revolver designs have incorporated hammer blocks and other safety mechanisms making them as safe as comparable autoloaders, even without an external safety.



as copied from wikipedia
__________________:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[CAVU45]

I would go with my 3rd Generation G22. I have bunches of mags and ammo.

Some people consider the rail "tacti-cool" and worthless. I tend to disagree and plan on mounting my Sig light/laser on the G22 if it is Z-day.

I'm one of those who considers rails on handguns "tacticool". But I suppose there's a use for them in certain scenarios. I couldn't see them used on the average, everyday concealed carry pistol. Maybe for actual tactical use by the military or police. If I need a laser for my gun I'll look at something like the Crimson Trace Laser Grips.

[CAVU45]

Ease of use: Revolvers are truly point and shoot. No safeties or complex procedures inhibit putting a revolver into action. Some semi-autos require several steps to place them into action, allowing room for error in critical situations.
Reliability: Blockages and malfunctions are virtually impossible in a revolver. A dud round is cleared by a simple pull of the trigger. Several types of blockages and malfunctions are possible (and fairly common) in semi-autos. With single action semi-autos one must rack the slide, or possibly take more extensive action, to clear a malfunction, which takes the pistol out of the shooting position. Single/double action and double action only autoloaders allow more than one firing pin impact upon the primer of a round which fails to fire. See Tap Rack Bang.
Ruggedness: Revolvers have a simpler, more rugged and robust design.
More stopping power: The largest and most powerful handgun rounds are rimmed rounds for revolvers only, owing to their sturdier design.
Revolvers will easily fire blank ammunition. Most semi-autos will not fully cycle with blank cartridges, causing malfunctions. Semi-auto pistols must be specially modified to properly cycle with blank ammunition, as in the case of prop weapons for cinema. This modification renders them incapable of firing any other cartridge type.
Spent cartridges are kept in the cylinder whereas a semi-auto ejects them. This is useful for reloaders.
Storage: Revolvers and speedloaders can be stored loaded indefinitely with no issues. Semi-auto magazines have springs under tension when loaded.
More variety in ammunition: Revolvers can chamber virtually any cartridge, including wadcutters, which will malfunction a semi-auto. This makes revolvers more appealing to many sport shooters. Additionally, revolvers can load certain interchangeable cartridges, those with identical calibers but different case lengths. Interchangeable cartridges include .22 short/long/long rifle, .357 magnum/.38 special, .44 magnum/.44 special, and .45 Colt/.410 shotshells (on some, check first).
Better sights: Sights are mounted to a fixed barrel, theoretically allowing greater accuracy.
Easier to determine if loaded: cartridges in a loaded revolver are readily apparent. An unloaded semi-auto is often visually identical to a loaded one.
Easier to clean and maintain: Revolvers have few exposed moving pieces and do not require disassembly. There is no risk of loss or breakage of pieces with a revolver. Semi-autos must be disassembled for cleaning, which may be difficult and risks losing or breaking vital pieces in the field or in darkness.
Speedloaders: Speedloaders are quicker and easier to fill than magazines. Speedloaders and magazines load their weapons with comparable speed, but speedloaders are bulkier. Also see advantage under "Storage" above.
[edit]Advantages of semi-automatics


Smith & Wesson 9mm semi-automatic.
Larger ammo capacity: semi-automatics typically carry 8 to 20 or more rounds; most revolvers carry 6 rounds, although some carry 5, 7, 8, or even up to 10 in .22 caliber. A few jurisdictions limit the magazine capacity on handguns to 10 rounds, largely negating this advantage in these places. Furthermore pistols with larger magazines are unsuitable for people with smaller hands again in practice negating the advantage of large magazines, for example Smith and Wesson markets its J frame "Lady Smith" revolvers as being suitable for smaller female palms.
Better combat reloading: Magazines, while slower and more difficult to fill, are simpler to place into operation and more ergonomic to carry than speedloaders.
Quieter: With similar ammunition, a semi-auto is typically slightly quieter. Flash and noise can be suppressed. Noise and flash suppressors are ineffective in most revolvers due to noise and flash escaping the gap between the cylinder and the barrel.
Less expensive ammunition: semi-autos often fire standard military ammunition, which is more readily available and cheaper thanks to extensive mass production. However, popular revolver cartridges such as .38 Special are comparable in their cost and availability to popular autoloading cartridges such as 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP.
Autoloaders have a significantly slimmer and easier to conceal frame as they do not suffer from the bulge produced by the revolver's cylinder.
Some contemporary automatics are made of light-weight materials, (such as polymer) making them lighter and more comfortable to carry for long periods. Polymer frames are impractical on revolvers, and the weight savings would be minimal as the main sources of weight are the barrel and cylinder which cannot be polymer.(The revolver barrel and cylinder can be made out of light metals such as titanium or scandium[citation needed] thus making this advantage negligible. ex: The Smith and Wesson air weight can weigh as little as 12 ounces.[citation needed])
The nature of most semi-auto's operation makes the trigger pull much easier after the first round is fired, allowing for quick and accurate follow-up shots. Revolvers will always have strong trigger pulls unless the hammer is cocked before each shot, which greatly slows the shooter's rate of fire.
Although relatively rare even with wartime ammunition, hangfires pose a unique risk for revolvers which does not exist for autoloaders. During rapid fire, a hangfire which occurs in a revolver can result in a round firing from a chamber not aligned with the barrel, with negative consequences for the piece and possibly the shooter. This failure mode does not exist with autoloaders.
Most semi-autos incorporate an external safety switch, which is a visual and tactile cue that the weapon is safe. However, newer revolver designs have incorporated hammer blocks and other safety mechanisms making them as safe as comparable autoloaders, even without an external safety.



as copied from wikipedia
__________________:clap::clap::clap::clap:

What's the reason for the cut 'n paste? Are you trying to "school" us or make us think you know alot about guns? There's a ton of information left out of the wiki and some is outdated.

[FFG]

I am a big fan of the .357 Magnum (my first handgun was a S&W Model 19), but I would opt for the higher capacity Taurus in a Zed world. Just my $.02.

[FFG]

I'm one of those who considers rails on handguns "tacticool". But I suppose there's a use for them in certain scenarios. I couldn't see them used on the average, everyday concealed carry pistol. Maybe for actual tactical use by the military or police. If I need a laser for my gun I'll look at something like the Crimson Trace Laser Grips.

I do not have a rail on my everyday carry pistol. In fact I had to look around to get a used 2nd gen G19. I hate the finger molds on the 3rg Gen G19 (though they do not bother me on the full size G17 & G22).

Right now the light/laser is mounted on my house gun (Sig 229R).

I went to a ship self defense school in the Navy. We trained on a decommissioned ship w/o power. We were running around in the depths of this ship carrying flashlights and trying to shoot each other with simunition rounds out of M9s. Many times I was at a door or needed a hand for something and had to decide between holstering my weapon, putting up the light or trying to juggle weapon and light in one hand. That convinced me a light on the handgun could be a good thing. It should not be your only light, but it is good to have.

I have decided I like the laser as well (only bought the combo as it was on super sale). One should not become dependent on the laser. It is hard to see in daylight, it could die on the 256th wave of zombies, etc. But I can make head shots with the laser a lot faster than with the sights. I think it is important to avoid using it as a crutch and at least 2/3 of my practice is laser off, sights only.

Did not mean to preach. Just explaining what I like and giving reasons why.

[kiltedninja]

The only thing I don't like about the 1911 is ammo capacity. But it forces me to make my shots count.

[CAVU45]

I do not have a rail on my everyday carry pistol. In fact I had to look around to get a used 2nd gen G19. I hate the finger molds on the 3rg Gen G19 (though they do not bother me on the full size G17 & G22).

Right now the light/laser is mounted on my house gun (Sig 229R).

I went to a ship self defense school in the Navy. We trained on a decommissioned ship w/o power. We were running around in the depths of this ship carrying flashlights and trying to shoot each other with simunition rounds out of M9s. Many times I was at a door or needed a hand for something and had to decide between holstering my weapon, putting up the light or trying to juggle weapon and light in one hand. That convinced me a light on the handgun could be a good thing. It should not be your only light, but it is good to have.

I have decided I like the laser as well (only bought the combo as it was on super sale). One should not become dependent on the laser. It is hard to see in daylight, it could die on the 256th wave of zombies, etc. But I can make head shots with the laser a lot faster than with the sights. I think it is important to avoid using it as a crutch and at least 2/3 of my practice is laser off, sights only.

Did not mean to preach. Just explaining what I like and giving reasons why.

Preaching? Naw, just explaining your position. You make good and valid points for the use of rails on a handgun, especially for a "bedside" gun for use in home defense. I may have to rethink my position on rails for civilian gun use. You've definately given me something to think about. I agree with you on lasers and such becoming crutches, that's why I avoid them prefering the old iron sights and MkI eyeball. But as I get older those sights get harder to see, hence the rational for the Crimson Trace Laser Grips for night use. During daylight hours the old eyes are still good enough for irons.

[CAVU45]

The only thing I don't like about the 1911 is ammo capacity. But it forces me to make my shots count.

Very true. But there are high cap, double stack 1911s on the market now like the Para-Ordnance guns. Problem with them is you have to have fairly large hands to hold them comfortably. They definately aren't a "ladies" gun.

[erikebbesen]

What's the reason for the cut 'n paste? Are you trying to "school" us or make us think you know alot about guns? There's a ton of information left out of the wiki and some is outdated.

it was something to base derisions on if you a noob:puke:

[CAVU45]

it was something to base derisions on if you a noob:puke:

Derisive? Hardly. You come here talking about using big bore hunting handguns and auto pistols and killing three with one shot, then do a Wiki cun 'n paste with outdated material in it. I'm simply questioning your experience, which doesn't seem like much. If you don't have experience, no worries. People here are happy to explain and teach. But don't be a ****in' troll acting like you know more than you do. There are far too many people with vast amounts of real world experience here to let you get away with that. Just be glad it isn't Bob responding to you.

[erikebbesen]

Derisive? Hardly. You come here talking about using big bore hunting handguns and auto pistols and killing three with one shot, then do a Wiki cun 'n paste with outdated material in it. I'm simply questioning your experience, which doesn't seem like much. If you don't have experience, no worries. People here are happy to explain and teach. But don't be a ****in' troll acting like you know more than you do. There are far too many people with vast amounts of real world experience here to let you get away with that. Just be glad it isn't Bob responding to you.

i have some experience i AM big in to gun but not hang guns so to speak i am sorry for not being very smart with my posts i am not an ameuter but im not the best

[CAVU45]

Not knowing aobut something is no reason to apologise. Not knowing and acting like you do is a reason. Like I said before ask question, don't be a troll, and all will be well. There are a bunch of very experienced people here, from combat vets to police officers with real world experience. You aren't going to fool them.

[erikebbesen]

Not knowing aobut something is no reason to apologise. Not knowing and acting like you do is a reason. Like I said before ask question, don't be a troll, and all will be well. There are a bunch of very experienced people here, from combat vets to police officers with real world experience. You aren't going to fool them.

right the reason i know about that stuff is form video games and research i have no real experience just knowledge :doh:

[CAVU45]

right the reason i know about that stuff is form video games and research i have no real experience just knowledge :doh:

In other words, you have no experience at all. Video games teach you nothing and personal research, while admirable will only take you so far. Have you ever fired a real gun? I would wager you haven't.

[erikebbesen]

In other words, you have no experience at all. Video games teach you nothing and personal research, while admirable will only take you so far. Have you ever fired a real gun? I would wager you haven't.

i have a shotgun and i own 3 bb guns i plan on joining the army

[hotlead]

Well, that qualifies you to give the world your opinion of the shotgun and three BB guns you have.

I'd do more reading, listening, ask a few more questions, and drop the hammer on a few handguns before telling us all about revolvers and pistols, were I you. I'm just tryin' to help you out.

I applaud anyone who plans on joining the military, you have my thanks.

[erikebbesen]

Well, that qualifies you to give the world your opinion of the shotgun and three BB guns you have.

I'd do more reading, listening, ask a few more questions, and drop the hammer on a few handguns before telling us all about revolvers and pistols, were I you. I'm just tryin' to help you out.

I applaud anyone who plans on joining the military, you have my thanks.

thanks i am not going to do that again btw its a sniper bb

[hotlead]

Give me a .38 special revolver with a 3-4 inch barrel and I can shoot accurately enough to hit a zombie in the head at up to 50 yards when using single action. I find that I can shoot well with Revolvers, but I can't hit a thing with semi auto handguns. That said, when I use one in double action, it becomes a torso accuracy weapon at half the range. I don't know if it's just me (could be just me with semi autos too) or if it's just the limitations of handgun accuracy.

You're OK, this is common with DA revolvers, they can be tuned and have a slicked up DA pull that greatly increases accuracy from that long, heavy, scratchy factory trigger pull.

You can overcome this by shooting 5,000,000rds a year like that guy who shoots for S&W, but most of us don't have his time or sponsor money to do that.

[Bob]

Well y'all did a good job of explaining things so I am going to leave it at that.

We all wish we could find a sponsor to buy our guns and ammunition.
If anyone cares to volunteer just give me a call, send me a pm, an email, heck a carrier pigeon.

Collectively there is a lot of experience here considering it is a fantasy forum.

If I could offer advice to a young guy it would be to keep your ears open and be careful what you say.
Some people say there is no such thing as a stupid question, I sort of agree.
There are stupid ways to ask a question.
Make your questions count but don't hesitate to ask them.
I may make fun of the way you ask but I will generally answer your question.

I guess I spent to much time around the damn bubble heads.
Man that is a caustic bunch, good thing for the most part they were a bit afraid of me.

[Darkness]

"And now, can we PLEASE get back to the topic of this thread?" :naughty:

[ZedHunter]

If I could bring a pistol, it'd be a 357mag. Slow reloading, but it wouldnt be my primary. ;)

[kiltedninja]

I wouldn't rely on a .357, they're fun to shoot, but they're not my choice.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Either a 9mm or a .45, but I'm still not sure which model. I have a couple years to decide if I follow my "buy one gun every year for the rest of my life" plan.

[kiltedninja]

Either a 9mm or a .45, but I'm still not sure which model. I have a couple years to decide if I follow my "buy one gun every year for the rest of my life" plan.

Hoping to attain a Bob sized arsenal are you?

[mattifikation]

Unless you buy a lot of cheap ass guns, or make really good money, that's a lot of money to spend on guns.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Unless you buy a lot of cheap ass guns, or make really good money, that's a lot of money to spend on guns.

I spend a year doing research and trying to find a good deal. Its a lot smarter than a spur of the moment purchase and usually cheaper. I work enough to afford it and don't "live large" at all. I live off what makes me happy and keeps me alive and it just so happens that that budget allows me to make a once a year purchase such as this. Its a hobby, and there are a lot more expensive hobbies out there than guns.

[mattifikation]

I bet it becomes a lot more expensive if you factor in ammunition, storage, (at the very least, you're going to need an extra *secure* room in your future homes) and the fact that someday you are going to have a wife who will be able to use the argument "If you can spend all that money on guns, I can spend the same amount of money on SHOES!"

I'm not trying to dissuade you or anything, it's your money. I'm just amazed you'd want to spend so much on so many guns. Look on the bright side though... take care of them, and if you ever get in a financial bind they'll be worth a fortune...

[CAVU45]

I spend a year doing research and trying to find a good deal. Its a lot smarter than a spur of the moment purchase and usually cheaper. I work enough to afford it and don't "live large" at all. I live off what makes me happy and keeps me alive and it just so happens that that budget allows me to make a once a year purchase such as this. Its a hobby, and there are a lot more expensive hobbies out there than guns.

Sounds like a solid plan. I know too many people that spend way too much on guns. They just have to have the latest and greatest of whatever has just hit the market. But spending time doing research and then getting what you want is good. You can build up quite a collection in a fairly short time.

[Bob]

The best zombie side arm is a 9mm.






The real secret is to have a gun fund or fun fund if you will.
The amount will vary but it need to always exist.
Don't spend it on dope, beer, cigarettes or your latest squeeze.
That way when a deal comes along you can jump on it.
Have a list of items you want.
The list can and should change.
Think about what you want.
The thing is after a while you won't even handle some of the things you have.
You will have favorites and rest will just sit in the safe and take up space.
Some people sell off the stuff that just sits to fund things they currently want.
I don't only because guns are my legacy to my sons.
I am several guns short of having one for every year of my life.

The thing to consider is that you will in many cases spend the cost of the gun on accessories.
Modifing guns is expensive, you should learn to do as much as possible yourself. (there is a story to go with this but I don't have time right now)
Ammuniton costs continue to rise.
I saw a Winchester White box of 45 acp for $54.
Two years ago it was $20.
.223 is at best $40 a hundred at Walmart, when I was young I bought it for $10 a hundred.
.308 commercial el-cheapo at Walmart is $17.95 for 20 or almost $90 a hundred.
Surplus when you can find it is somewhat cheaper, currently .223 is going for about 35 cent a round.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Well if I can afford it now and I'm just working at Subway, then imagine what could happen when I graduate and get a better job.

[poke2000]

I would take an 45 cal SOCOM HK-USP. Its a reliable sidearm I have only the 9mm HK-USP. The state lawmakers are really strict here. Gun control is very tight in Hawaii. :-(

[Bob]

H&K is overpriced.

[badbrojack]

I'd definately carry a glock 17....it has a 17 round high capacity factory produced magazine which is good...and lets be truthfull, you can only kill a zed with a head shot and a 9mm can do that easy...and the glock is light, only 25 oz...so more room for ammo. Plus it has only a few external features so would be easy for anybody to use.......no messing around with safety features or trigger releases etc....the dream firearm...
Except for a fully auto Mp5....Now that is a dream :D

[FFG]

A Glock is great choice. Simple to use. There are lots of them around so parts will be less of an issue than with some more exotic firearm.

[Bob]

Glocks are not finicky at all.
Mine will eat most anything but semi-wadcutters.

[FFG]

I have two Glocks I have been shooting since at least 96. Could have been before that. A G22 & a G27. I have had exactly two FTEs. One in each gun, on the same day out of the same box of Wolf .40.

Mine have shot everything else, but I have not tried semi-wadcutters.

[Dave Of The Dead]

One of the few autos I've shot was my old .380 that I got rid of. I don't remember what model it was, but when I shot it, I had a FTE every 8 rounds it seemed. I just can't think of what brand the cartridges were.

[CAVU45]

First handgun I owned was a little tanfoglio .380 pocket pistol. Never had a ftf or fte with it, but the cartridge it used wouldn't penetrate wet newspaper. I traded it for my 1911.

[kiltedninja]

.380's aren't really good guns. I'm sure they have their place, and I've never fired one, but I've heard that they're really inaccurate.

[Bob]

Bob carries a .380 in his pocket every day.
.380 is inherantly no more inaccurate than any other round.
They just tend to be fired out of small pistols with a short sight radius.
Some of the pistols are crap some are good.

Some of the older ball rounds were pretty anemic but the newer stuff is nothing to laugh at.

25 acp on the other hand is pretty weak stuff.
The only reliable way to use it is to target the sinus cavity of the zed.

[FFG]

I carry a Ruger LCP .380 in my pocket every work day.

I have been impressed with how accurate this small gun can be.

I stuck a Crimson Trace unit on mine and added the magazine finger grip extension. Set up like this I can shoot it fast and straight. W/o the extension I have to slow down as the pistol really squirmed around in my hand.

The .380 acp is no .357 magnum, but I have faith that it can dissuade the average BG to leave me be.

[ZombiePunisher]

I would use a 44. Magnum and 12 speed loaders.

[Birdman44]

I would use a 44. Magnum and 12 speed loaders.

I'de use that if it was the only thing I had, but its too much for me to shoot effectively right now (too little practice with it), but I would not mind a G22 or any other GLOCK thats either in .40 or 9mm. I know I can handle those just fine.:)

[Bob]

Back years ago I used to sometimes carry a Smith model 29 with a 4 inch barrel that had been magnaported.
Nice revolver lots of power slow recovery time.
Both 44 mag and shotguns are overkill for a zombie.

[mattifikation]

Every so often, you're going to come across a former police or military zombie in full riot gear or ballistic armor. A heavy hitter might be nice to have at your side for the tough tasks like that.

[FFG]

That is what the Garand is for.

[CAVU45]

Every so often, you're going to come across a former police or military zombie in full riot gear or ballistic armor. A heavy hitter might be nice to have at your side for the tough tasks like that.

All the armor wouldn't matter if you're going for headshots.

[mattifikation]

I'm not sure if I trust my 9mm to go through helmets and still deal enough damage to the brain. I base that on the belief that the brain has to be dealt a lot more damage to stop a zombie than it takes to stop a human.

Also... there's bears where I live.

[kiltedninja]

Yeah Matt, you'll need a heavy hitter for sure.

Kevlar helmets can be dealt with by a .308 but when it comes to a pistol, I'd go with something bigger than a 9mm if you could, .357 is technically bigger, but does it have more power?

[erikebbesen]

Every so often, you're going to come across a former police or military zombie in full riot gear or ballistic armor. A heavy hitter might be nice to have at your side for the tough tasks like that.

if you encounter one the armor may make it slower in stead of fight pick flight its safer

[FFG]

If you worried about zombies in helmets, get yourself something that shoots 7.62x25. They can be had cheap ($200+shipping+transfer at j&gsales).

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29.htm

[CAVU45]

I'm not sure if I trust my 9mm to go through helmets and still deal enough damage to the brain. I base that on the belief that the brain has to be dealt a lot more damage to stop a zombie than it takes to stop a human.

Also... there's bears where I live.

9mm ball will go through the kevlar helmet with no problem, so I wouldn't see that as a problem. The bear on the other hand......

[erikebbesen]

if you encounter one the armor may make it slower in stead of fight pick flight its safer

why fight a slow zombie? RUN!

[mattifikation]

If running was always an option, nobody would ever die. As it stands, people die... so running is obviously not always an option.

[hightechredneck]

i'd take my baby eagle in 9mm, with 95 rds in clip's.

[erikebbesen]

If running was always an option, nobody would ever die. As it stands, people die... so running is obviously not always an option.

:clap:true but if you must fight then fight but running is smarter then fighting a armored zed:pray:

[Bob]

Dixie Slugs for dangerous game.

[hotlead]

Helmets are open in front, a riot mask is just plexiglass. A 9mm or two to the face will be just fine as any zombies you have to fight will likely be facing you with eyes and mouth wide open, just aim for the triangle and you'll probably make a clean re-kill.

[Birdman44]

Helmets are open in front, a riot mask is just plexiglass. A 9mm or two to the face will be just fine as any zombies you have to fight will likely be facing you with eyes and mouth wide open, just aim for the triangle and you'll probably make a clean re-kill.

I agree.. Shoot the damned thing!!!:evil:

[Dave Of The Dead]

i'd take my baby eagle in 9mm, with 95 rds in clip's.

Nobody else caught it? Even Bob.

They're called "Magazines" hightechredneck. And clips is not possessive.

I really think 9mm is the way to go. Less recoil and most manageable than other calibers and is very very common. All us gangsta's be walkin' round with our 9's in hand, poppin caps, yo!

[hotlead]

Maybe he does keep his 9mms on clips, I keep all my rifle ammo in clips and bandoleers, 9mm fits in 5.56 clips, and .45acp fits in M14 clips.

I keep 90rds of fo-fifths in a bandoleer in my BOB, six pocket bandoleer, three 5rd clips per pocket.

Anyway, no I didn't miss it, just tired of repeating myself on all the little stuff. Good lookin' out.

[kiltedninja]

I reckon it's a little better than keeping it in a box, at least space wise.

But Hotlead, I think that Dave's mad because he may be referring to the magazine as a clip.

[Bob]

Well I could say I was waiting to see if anyone else saw it but the truth is I have been staying up way to late playing left 4 dead and just dog tired.
I am going to have to stop playing that game and get some sleep.

I am a magnet for hunters and smokers.
If you are down and shooting at a tank shoot him in the crotch it seems to kill him faster.
I think it might have been a little joke from the programmers.

[hotlead]

I reckon it's a little better than keeping it in a box, at least space wise.

But Hotlead, I think that Dave's mad because he may be referring to the magazine as a clip.

Yeah, I know, just being silly.

[JakAttak]

9mm or a .22 whatever i can carry more ammo for and can find ammo for

[Birdman44]

I have a question for the 1911 owners out there that have also shot a G22 (the .40 s&w GLOCK). I realize there are differences in recoil between certain ammo, but can anyone tell there opinion on the general recoil between both guns? I've shot the G22 and I really want to shoot a 1911, but it seams that our family doesn't know anyone that owns one, so I'm looking for some perspective on which has "better" recoil.

[hotlead]

Look around for an indoor range that has rentals, any decent place should have a 1911 type to rent.

But, I can't really answer your question.......I've never fired a Glock of any type, but I imagine that felt recoil would probably be similar given the variables. 1911- heavier pistol with heavier projectile, G22- lighter pistol with lighter projectile moving faster. Just a guess.

[MallNinja]

I may very well look into this. I keep guns I'm willing to lose forever as truck guns, and it sounds like your idea might be a little cheaper given ammo cost.

Well, I moved. And I purchased a model 92 in .45 colt, and a Uberti in .45 as well. Also, I got a Ruger 10-22 and a Ruger Mk. III in .22 rimfire.

[Bob]

You moved?

[Birdman44]

Look around for an indoor range that has rentals, any decent place should have a 1911 type to rent.

But, I can't really answer your question.......I've never fired a Glock of any type, but I imagine that felt recoil would probably be similar given the variables. 1911- heavier pistol with heavier projectile, G22- lighter pistol with lighter projectile moving faster. Just a guess.

Thanks anyway, my father is going to be bringing me to a range soon I think. I'll see if I can get him to have me try one out.

[CAVU45]

I have a question for the 1911 owners out there that have also shot a G22 (the .40 s&w GLOCK). I realize there are differences in recoil between certain ammo, but can anyone tell there opinion on the general recoil between both guns? I've shot the G22 and I really want to shoot a 1911, but it seams that our family doesn't know anyone that owns one, so I'm looking for some perspective on which has "better" recoil

I can't answer your question concerning the Glock, but can about polymer pistols in general. In my experience a polymer pistol will have heavier felt recoil than an all steel gun. My wife owns a polymer Ruger P89 9mm. Shooting 115grain ball through it, it has heavier felt recoil than my 1911 shooting 230 grain ball.

[JakAttak]

yeah i think i know what you're talking about it has something to do polymers being stiffer or something

[CAVU45]

yeah i think i know what you're talking about it has something to do polymers being stiffer or something

Polymer guns are much lighter.

[Bob]

Well I shoot both.
Truth is I don't really notice the recoil anymore.
If I had to say I would say a Glock 21s recoil is a bit softer than the 1911.
But that may be just because the grip fits my hand better.

[MallNinja]

You moved?

Yup, I have a loft in addition to the Indiana farm now. $400 a month gets me 50 miles closer to work during the week.

[mattifikation]

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/170269a_lrg.jpg

8-shot, 357 revolver. You can drop moon clips right into the wheel for fast reloading, or reload one bullet at a time. I'm a strong believer that at least one of your guns shouldn't require removable magazines or clips.

[Bob]

I know a guy who has one of these.
Trigger pull is a bit heavy.
This one needs a disco ball.

[mattifikation]

I haven't read anything bad about it. If I were a richer person than I'll ever be, I'd throw down the money for it.

[50 cal]

yeah i think i know what you're talking about it has something to do polymers being stiffer or something


Watch a slow motion footage of a Glock being fired. It flexes so bad you would be frightened to fire another one!

I have a G17 and love it. Wouldn't get rid of it for anything. But seeing one flex makes me wonder about the .40 cal's

[Bob]

Matt
It's nice, I am just not a revolver guy anymore.
I have some and there is one on my active list but overall I prefer automatics.
One of the big things is a holster.
When you hang stuff on a revolver or even a pistol you greatly reduce your holster options.

[mattifikation]

The rails can be removed. I'm more interested in the capacity than the rails.

[Noc]

Are those attachments for real, or is it just a 'Mall Ninja' joke? Because that seems like overkill.

[Bob]

They could easily be real.
That pistol has picatinny rails.

I'm not much for hanging stuff on guns but there is something to say for having a weapon mounted flashlight.
There are a several schools of thought regarding weapon mounted lights and I tend to bounce around a bit, I have never used one enough to have a real opinion.

On a revolver like that I am not sure if I would want a flashlight or a laser or some combo unit.

I tend to be minimalistic when it comes to sighting systems on other than range guns.
I will be putting everything including a disco ball on an AR towards the end of the year.
A friend of my youngest sons dad has an Elcheapo AR with "stuff" on it.
He made fun of my 80's Colt CAR so they must pay the price for poking the bear with a stick.

I am thinking I will start with a Colt AR-15 LE 6940 then hang every gadget I can find on it.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2731/clydearmory69408603836.jpg

[Noc]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I can appreciate over the top 'Gun Porn':)

Just on a pistol like that, it looked a little bit silly.

But, I've never shot, so my opinion was coming from a purely aesthetic point of view.