NOTLD 68 - The great debate

[UNDEAD FRED]

One of the best parts of NOTLD 68 for me is where Harry Cooper and Ben argue about barricading themselves in the basement, or boarding up and defending the farm house. What would you of done? Or done differently?

[AN OLD SHOE]

well if i knew help was coming i would have barracaded the basement...and if not i would have hauled ass out of there...

[UNDEAD FRED]

I would of tried to knock down the stairs, take all the supplies up on the second floor. I still would of barricaded the windows better. Get some work done instead of argueing with Harry Cooper. If I barricaded myself in the basement, I would of pushed the Piano in front of the door, knocked out the wheels. But that was still a bad ideal, especially if the house caught fire.

[AN OLD SHOE]

good point...i forgot the original had stairs to the 2nd floor..i suppose i would have just barracaded and knocked out the stairs...

[UNDEAD FRED]

Yes, Ive seen NOTLD 68 30+ times, so these are the crazy things I think about everytime I watch it. NOTLD 90 is fantastic to. Ive seen that movie 15-20 times to.

[AN OLD SHOE]

i wouldnt even worryabout supplies other than the guns...i would just go upstairs and once it got to crazy or there was no signs of help..i would jump outside and run my ass off haha

[UNDEAD FRED]

If I was Ben I would of tried to get gas first thing, before to many zombies surrounded the place, he had a tire iron. you dont have to break the lock, just the pot metal sorrounding the lock.

[AN OLD SHOE]

yeah thats another good idea! those kids in the 90's version were dumb..who shoots a gas pump? :loon:

[fester_hicks]

I would have gotten out of the house and made a run for it.

They might have thought the world was done but still....

Was it a mindset back in those days, if you understand....

[Darkness]

Was it a mindset back in those days, if you understand....

"You may have a point there."

[detpat]

attic is my pick, zombies can't fly.

[zmbvan]

They can't fly, but they can start fires.

I would choose higher levels rather than trapped in the basement with no escape.

[detpat]

true, but is it is easier to climb or jump down than tunnel out.

[zmbvan]

Exactly. If you ran out of food in the basement there wouldn't be a way to go out and look for food. Zombies would be blocking the doors. If you jumped from the roof at least you have some chance of getting away. Unless you break a limb from the jump. Most people can't/don't know how to land a big jump.

[Behemoth]

Get some work done instead of argueing with Harry Cooper
difficult not to argue with a chump like mr cooper, ben was a good guy, in the event of a zombie outbreak i sure hope i meet someone like that. Ben was right to go for the gas, it would have worked had the others not panicked.

[DarthJoe8]

Up the stairs bringing as much supplies as you can. Try to knock out the stairs or create a barricade. If that can't be done then into the attic.:think:

[Z-Day is very soon]

They can't fly, but they can start fires.

I would choose higher levels rather than trapped in the basement with no escape.

in notld 68 last time i saw it the zombies where afraid of fire and light?

[DarthJoe8]

in notld 68 last time i saw it the zombies where afraid of fire and light?

I hear what your saying but at the same time when the kids blow up by the gas pump the zeds wait then drag the bodies out of the fire and start munching.:loon: Crazy zeds.:loon:

[RobDimension]

The upstairs theory might be good, but when the zombies start to enter the house...there is a whole lotta them. I have never seen anyone tackle the idea of zombies craving so much that they actually begin to step/climb the other zombies. Just not sure if they could get to the 2nd floor..(no thought process just the hunger driving them.)

[Z-Day is very soon]

I hear what your saying but at the same time when the kids blow up by the gas pump the zeds wait then drag the bodies out of the fire and start munching.:loon: Crazy zeds.:loon:

maybe they have multiple personalities sometimes they like fire and light and sometimes they dont

:loon:

[zmbvan]

in notld 68 last time i saw it the zombies where afraid of fire and light?

I was being half serious, but in Land of the Dead, Big Daddy puts that gas pump through the window of the limousine. Shortly after he sends down a little drum that was on fire. And Boom! Good-bye Kaufman. Plus, zombies are very clumsy little bastards and I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow accidentally started a fire.

[Subgenius]

Zombies love Kentucky Fried Humans.

Big Daddy and Bub were extremely rare for zombies. Both had very intact bodies and heads. I don't recall that either of them had ever been shot of bludgeoned. I think that the most dangerous zombies in any Romero film would have to be the most intact zombies. They likely have the greatest capacity or ability to recover most of their previous life memories.

They could even recall actual memories and not just stuff that had been repetitive in their former lives. The discussion that Peter and the others had about why the zombies went to the mall is really telling. I know that, like with my signature quote, what Peter (and John in Day of the Dead, 1985) say may or may not be truth or Truth; true in the story versus True commentary between Romero and the audience through the dialogue of his characters.

[Evil Pug]

Well we all know now that Cooper (NOTLD 68 ) was right. Remember he had a wife and kid to think about. No way in hell your going to take a chance running by them or jumping from the roof ect... Take all your supplies,radio/tv,food and reinforce the basement door and wait it out. IMHO Ben was the biggest problem.

[Subgenius]

Well we all know now that Cooper (NOTLD 68 ) was right. Remember he had a wife and kid to think about. No way in hell your going to take a chance running by them or jumping from the roof ect... Take all your supplies,radio/tv,food and reinforce the basement door and wait it out. IMHO Ben was the biggest problem.

I agreed with Ben. I would rather have a running chance than get blocked in and starved out. That basement did not look so well stocked that it could support six or seven people for any extended period. The zombies would have filled up the house, cut off escape, and you'd be trapped.

But, a point in Cooper's favor would be that the rescue DID come at the end of the film. People came and found them and so forth. So, Cooper was right all along, but how could he have really known that? I would have been like Ben, and I would not have trusted that people were coming or that I could wait out the zombies.

[Behemoth]

Well we all know now that Cooper (NOTLD 68 ) was right. Remember he had a wife and kid to think about. No way in hell your going to take a chance running by them or jumping from the roof ect... Take all your supplies,radio/tv,food and reinforce the basement door and wait it out. IMHO Ben was the biggest problem.

Err, i may be wrong but wasn't mr coopers daughter infected? If my memory is correct, i fail to see how any person of sane mind & body would say it's a good idea to lock oneself in a basement with a ZOMBIE!:loon:

[AN OLD SHOE]

yeah then ben or somebody would kill the girl and then cooper would freak out and everyone would kill everyone...i would just stay upstairs and jump out a window if need be

[Evil Pug]

Err, i may be wrong but wasn't mr coopers daughter infected? If my memory is correct, i fail to see how any person of sane mind & body would say it's a good idea to lock oneself in a basement with a ZOMBIE!:loon:

Well no one then knew she was infected. The only thing they knew that the recent dead would become a ghoul. Like I said before, Cooper was right about the basement being the safest place to go. Ben was only concern about keeping all options open for himself. Because of Ben, two got roasted going for the gasoline. Ben was the cause of what the outcome came to be. If they had all gone to the basement (like Cooper said) they would have survived. When the daughter turned to being undead most likely they would have tied her up and not killed her. But thanks to Ben this did not happen.

[Behemoth]

When the daughter turned to being undead most likely they would have tied her up and not killed her. But thanks to Ben this did not happen.


Well as the poster above mentioned, you think the venerable mr copper was gonna let his daughter get all tied up? No way! He would have then demanded to smash open the basement and take his daughter to hospital.

[Evil Pug]

Well as the poster above mentioned, you think the venerable mr copper was gonna let his daughter get all tied up? No way! He would have then demanded to smash open the basement and take his daughter to hospital.

When someone comes at you with a spade to stab you...yea I think that he would let her be tied up then!:doh:

[ZombiesAteMyDog]

having seen the movie all the way through, its obvious which choice was the right one, only ben lives ( well he doesnt live, but the zombies dont get him ), so since the zombies coudlnt get to ben in the basement and he was able to just ride it out, I would have to go with the basement, plus if there wasnt all that hullabalo and yelling and fighting not as many zombies would have came in to try and beat down that door , the odds of the house starting on fire or the zombies starting a fire is slim to none IMO, how often does your house catch fire?

[Behemoth]

When someone comes at you with a spade to stab you...yea I think that he would let her be tied up then!:doh:

Well i must have seen a different film, i don't recall his daughter coming at anyone with a spade. Angry men do not behave rationally.

[Subgenius]

Well i must have seen a different film, i don't recall his daughter coming at anyone with a spade. Angry men do not behave rationally.

I thought that the daughter in the 1968 original NOTLD attacked the mother with a small gardening spade. In the remake, they saw that the use of the spade in the original gave more mental power to that zombie than it needed. So, in the 1990 remake of NOTLD (I just watched it this morning, LOL), the daughter attacked her mother in the basement. They tipped a hat to the original NOTLD by showing the blood splatter on the wall where the small spade hung on a nail. The blood splatters across the handle and blade of the small spade.

[Behemoth]

I thought that the daughter in the 1968 original NOTLD attacked the mother with a small gardening spade. In the remake, they saw that the use of the spade in the original gave more mental power to that zombie than it needed. So, in the 1990 remake of NOTLD (I just watched it this morning, LOL), the daughter attacked her mother in the basement. They tipped a hat to the original NOTLD by showing the blood splatter on the wall where the small spade hung on a nail. The blood splatters across the handle and blade of the small spade.

Yeah, you might be right, however spade or no spade trying to tie up a zombie with a nutcase for a dad in a locked basement is not going to be fun.

[UNDEAD FRED]

I dont see how anyone can say Ben was wrong. It seemed like Harry Cooper barely cared about his sick daughter, while Ben wanted to get the gas, and try to get Cooper's daughter medicle attention. I think if Harry Cooper got the gas, he would of took off right away, only thinking of his own skin.

[Subgenius]

I dont see how anyone can say Ben was wrong. It seemed like Harry Cooper barely cared about his sick daughter, while Ben wanted to get the gas, and try to get Cooper's daughter medicle attention. I think if Harry Cooper got the gas, he would of took off right away, only thinking of his own skin.

I agree. Every time I watch either version of NOTLD, I end up hating Cooper more and more. Ben had good and bad ideas. But, at least he had created options rather than deciding on just one way to go. In Cooper's defense, I would say that his daughter had been bitten, not shot or torn apart; she had not been so wounded or damaged that immediate panic had been called for in his situation. He may have thought she had a fever and would sleep it off. I know, it's not how I would react either. If my daughter went into a fever, then I would be near panicked to get her to medical attention or medicine. It just seemed that Cooper did not take it as deadly. But, I think that the real deal with Cooper had to do with fear and self-preservation. I think that he would have left his wife and daughter behind and taken off as you said.

[UNDEAD FRED]

Harry Cooper really didnt care about his wife, and daughter in NOTLD90 but thats a whole new deal there.

[Devilspaintbrush]

take the supplies upstairs and knock out the stairs...

no worries on the pumps

take out enough of them to create a hole that you can get through and lead them off..have the womens cover ya as ya get gas

Kill mouthy guy at first sign of ANY disobedience...


When in doubt? Be ruthless!!

[Evil Pug]

Well i must have seen a different film, i don't recall his daughter coming at anyone with a spade. Angry men do not behave rationally.

Watch the movie here.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2956447426428748010&q=night+of+the+living+dead&total=2355&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I have just watched it again and now know that not only was Harry Cooper right about staying put in the basement, but he was also the hero of the movie. Ben was the bad guy. Ben refuse to help Barbara find her brother Johnny and then beats her unconscious. When Cooper bravely opens the cellar door to see who is there, Ben tries to lay a guilt trip on him for hiding in the basement. Cooper informs him that he was only trying to safeguard his family and two locals from town. Cooper then generously offers Ben sanctuary in the basement. Ben replies "That cellar is a deathtrap, man!" Cooper then tries to get Barbara (who is in shock) down to safety in the basement and Ben stops him by saying "She stays up here with me!" Cooper ask Ben for food for his sick daughter and Ben refuses and said "I'm fighting for everything up here!" Ben keeps being confrontational with Cooper and browbeats the other survivers into his viewpoint on strategy. Even though Cooper knows that Ben's plan for getting gas for the truck is reckless and dangerous, he humbly helps anyway. Cooper has the dangerous job of throwing molotov cocktails at the ghouls to clear a path for Ben and Tom. When Ben is slow to leave (fear ?), Cooper runs down the stairs and tells them to go. While guarding the door, Tom's girlfriend Judy tries to go outside. Cooper stops her briefly but she breaks away. I swear you can see the pain in Cooper's eyes when this happens! He follows Ben's order and locks the door and goes to safeguard the cellar door. I have read alot about the danger of fire on this thread. Well, Ben is a firebug! He kills and then lights on fire one zombie right next to the porch! He then pours lighter fluid on a chair and sets it on fire right outside another door! He makes a torch out of a table leg and takes it with him to a gasoline pump! Then he shoots a lock off the pump! Well thanks to Ben, Tom and Judy are toast. On his way back to the house, Ben leaves the still smoldering torch outside that a zombie will later use to beat down the door with. Cooper is horrified at seeing Tom and Judy being burn to death because of Ben's actions. Ben easily kicks in the door and struggles to nail the door shut again. Cooper is rightly concern about helping Ben but bravely does so anyway. So how does Ben react, by giving Cooper a beatdown. Cooper now knows that Ben is a danger to him and his family. He tells his wife Helen that he has to get the gun away from Ben. Helen (her mind poison by Ben's rhetoric) is less than supportive. When the final zombie attack starts, Cooper takes the opportunity to get the gun away from the crazed Ben. Even now Cooper tries to reason with Ben to go to the basement! When he is distracted by Helen, Ben knocks the rifle out of Cooper's hands and in cold blood murders Cooper! Cooper uses all of his last strength to get to his daughter side. His last thoughts were about his kid! Helen is being attacked and poor Barbara who has been sitting on the couch the whole time in danger (thanks to Ben) finally comes out of shock and comes to Helen's aid. Helen flees to the basement to find little Karen eating her brave and noble father! Horrified by this sight, Helen meekly dies by being stab (yes I counted) 14 times with a spade. Barbara is now helping Ben defend the door. She is grabbed by her zombie brother and dragged outside. Does Ben go out to rescue her? No. He retreats to the "deathtrap" and locks himself in. Ben then shoots Cooper 3 more times and Helen only once after they resurrect. I know that most of you feel that when Ben is shot, it's a tragedy. I call it ironic justice!

[Behemoth]

]Ben refuse to help Barbara find her brother Johnny and then beats her unconscious. Well her brother was dead ( infected ) so he was right, she slapped him first & she was getting hysterical. Ben
saved Barbara twice, once when Ben arrived at the house she was gonna walk out the door into the arms of the zombies & when inside the house when Barbara was sitting in the chair, Ben took care of that zombie aswell. Remind me how many did Harry take care of?
Cooper then generously offers Ben sanctuary in the basement Because he wanted the protection of others, no generosity there.Well, Ben is a firebug! He kills and then lights on fire one zombie right next to the porch! He then pours lighter fluid on a chair and sets it on fire right outside another door! He makes a torch out of a table leg and takes it with him Again, the actions of a rational man in the circumstances, he knew zombies were afraid of fire, he made the rational decision to burn the armchair to keep the zombies away from the house which gave him time to board the place up, he was right again.Well thanks to Ben, Tom and Judy are toast. On his way back to the house, No they were toast because they were too frantic to carry the task out, not Bens fault.Ben easily kicks in the door and struggles to nail the door shut again. Cooper is rightly concern about helping Ben but bravely does so anyway. So how does Ben react, by giving Cooper a beatdown. So i suppose if someone locked you out to be eaten alive by zombies you would shake him by the hand & hand him a cigar?Helen (her mind poison by Ben's rhetoric) is less than supportive Not at all, she fist had her doubts about Harry when he insisted they stay in the basement rather than listen to the radio broadcast, Ben had not even seen her.
Does Ben go out to rescue her? No. He retreats to the "deathtrap" and locks himself in
No sense in him being eaten aswell, once again the action of a man who tried his best in a difficult situation, who was given little or no help from Harry Cooper. I do not say Bens behaviour was impecable, he could have handled things with Mr Cooper a bit better, however that would not have gained him any favours, from my own experience people like Cooper are just plain belligerent.
Thanks for the link to the film by the way:)

[Evil Pug]

Quote:
Well her brother was dead ( infected ) so he was right, she slapped him first & she was getting hysterical. Ben saved Barbara twice, once when Ben arrived at the house she was gonna walk out the door into the arms of the zombies & when inside the house when Barbara was sitting in the chair, Ben took care of that zombie aswell. Remind me how many did Harry take care of?


1. Ben did not know if Johnny was dead. He refused to help her find him. You don't beat a woman who is in shock. Was Ben saving Barbara or just securing the house for himself? Harry took out 2 zombies with the molotov cocktails.

Quote:
Because he wanted the protection of others, no generosity there.

2. Harry was already safe down in the basement. He took a great risk by opening that cellar door.

Quote:
Again, the actions of a rational man in the circumstances, he knew zombies were afraid of fire, he made the rational decision to burn the armchair to keep the zombies away from the house which gave him time to board the place up, he was right again.

3. If the wind blew back the flames all in the house could easily have been killed. Ben never had a solid plan for dealing with the situation. This lack of planning is what made Ben dangerous to be around with.

Quote:
No they were toast because they were too frantic to carry the task out, not Bens fault.

4. Ben carries a lit torch to a gasoline pump! Ben laids down the torch next to the truck right by the gas cap! Ben shoots the lock off the gasoline pump and gasoline is spilling everywhere! BEN'S FAULT!

Quote:
So i suppose if someone locked you out to be eaten alive by zombies you would shake him by the hand & hand him a cigar?

5. Harry followed Ben's order to lock the door behind him. Harry could have just locked the cellar door and be safe but he put his life on the line by keeping it open and then he bravely goes to Ben's aid to secure the front door. Harry's actions saved Ben.

Quote:
Not at all, she fist had her doubts about Harry when he insisted they stay in the basement rather than listen to the radio broadcast, Ben had not even seen her.

6. All married couples have their little disputes but Ben was acting like a schoolyard bully. Abusing people both physically and mentally!

Quote:
No sense in him being eaten aswell, once again the action of a man who tried his best in a difficult situation, who was given little or no help from Harry Cooper. I do not say Bens behaviour was impecable, he could have handled things with Mr Cooper a bit better, however that would not have gained him any favours, from my own experience people like Cooper are just plain belligerent.

7. Harry practically begged Ben to go into the cellar the whole time. If Ben had just listen to Harry, all of them but Karen would have survived. Harry saved Ben's life but the bitter and hateful Ben murders the good and kind Harry in cold blood! Ben's actions got everyone killed, even himself. In todays world Ben would be a prime candidate for a anger management class.

Quote:
Thanks for the link to the film by the way
8. Your welcome!

[AN OLD SHOE]

what i dont get is why ben was so dumb to not speak up or call out at the end of the movie....he just stood there quietly...if he called out or something he would have survived

[Seway]

I would defend the attic. Or i would run like hell. Basement is not the best of ideas, because it is very easy to get killed, and there is no escape.

[Subgenius]

I see how Ben's actions can be interpreted as bad, but I don't buy it. The torch at the gas pump may have been a bad idea, but it was TOM that screwed up, not Ben. Tom pulled the gas lever from the pump and started pouring gasoline everywhere. And, Judy got caught inside of the truck when her jacket snagged. She should have stayed in the house. So, Ben did not cause Tom and Judy to die.

what i dont get is why ben was so dumb to not speak up or call out at the end of the movie....he just stood there quietly...if he called out or something he would have survived

I agree with you there. Ben should have stayed in that basement until he heard living humans pounding on the door and calling out for anybody that had been alive. Then, he could have yelled back and survived. But, that would have been too happy of an ending. The 1990 remake had a much better story as far as some of these points are concerned.

Harry Cooper caused all of his own problems with Ben. Cooper resisted every idea and resisted helping. I don't even recall Cooper taking out the two zombies with the molitovs. I will look again. But, ultimately, when Cooper did not open the door for Ben, then Cooper signed his own death warrant. I would have shot Cooper as well.

[Behemoth]

2. Harry was already safe down in the basement. He took a great risk by opening that cellar door
Wrong! We don't know why he suddenly came up from his hiding place, most likely his wife & the others dissuaded him from sitting on his @ss & doing something other than hiding.
3. If the wind blew back the flames all in the house could easily have been killed. Ben never had a solid plan for dealing with the situation. This lack of planning is what made Ben dangerous to be around with
If the flames blew forward they could have burnt those zombies to hell, yet another good plan from ben.
You don't beat a woman who is in shock
Here we both agree, as i have said not all Bens actions were right & proper, but she was in hysterical, she might have opened the place up to try & get to her brother, which could have cost them their lives.
Ben was acting like a schoolyard bully. Abusing people both physically and mentally!
In a stressful situation like that, it does not pay to make "polite" conversation. There's a time for good manners & a time for surviving, Rhet Buttler from Gone With the Wind is a good example, not a southern polite gentleman but a survivor like Ben.

[Faran Brigo]

First of all, in NOTLD 68 nobody knew about the attic, as far as I can remember. Or at least neither Ben nor Harry took it as an option. I don't remember there being open flames or a lit stove in the house, so I doubt the zombies would have started a fire, but I seriously doubt jumping off an attic and onto a crowd of zombies is a good idea.

The idea that there was a "bad guy" and a "good guy" runs against the spirit of the movie I think. The point is they were all human (except Tom's GF and Harry's daughter which were pretty much stock characters).

Tom was trying to help and appease everyone and of course, that's not possible. Barbra just sunk into useless shock, which demeaning and sexist as may appear to modern sensibilities does happen to either gender. Harry's wife was just trying to handle Harry. Harry was just a family man that couldn't rise up to the ocassion and couldn't stop bickering, and Ben tried to rise up but made mistakes along the way and finally cracked under the stress.

There wasn't any real reason why they couldn't go both ways: Ben, Tom and Harry boarding up the place, while Judy and Harry's wife moved supplies (except ammunition) to the basement. Ideally you should be able to hold the house but if you can't, then you can execute an organized retreat to the basement and try to hold up there as a last resort.

Even if not, both of the ideas would have worked, the entire point of the film was that all that bickering and infighting doomed the survivors from the start, that we are a bigger threat to ourselves than the zombies. And just to keep proving Romero right, if the 7 people who are posting on this thread more often were locked in that house, the end result would be similar probably.

[Behemoth]

if the 7 people who are posting on this thread more often were locked in that house, the end result would be similar probably.

Speaking for myself, i keep my bickering confined to internet forums:lol:

[Evil Pug]

Speaking for myself, i keep my bickering confined to internet forums:lol:


Lets not argue and bicker. Just say that I'm right and be done with it!:)

[Behemoth]

Lets not argue and bicker. Just say that I'm right and be done with it!:)

No, lets say Ben was right, and i rest my case:lol:

[Darkness]

"How about you guys just agree that you disagree, and let the discussion go forward." ;-)

[Faran Brigo]

That's what they needed at the NoTLD 68 house, they needed a Darkness armed with the dreaded banstick (and a machinegun or two wouldn't hurt either).

Lets not argue and bicker. Just say that I'm right and be done with it!

Now, you see, I would, and I'd love to, but you're oh so not even close :lol:

Seriously, Harry Cooper the hero...? I can't read it without snickering. Yeah, he wasn't the "bad guy", and I can see where he was coming from but I can safely say, they would have been better off if he had died and never reached the house.

[Evil Pug]

That's what they needed at the NoTLD 68 house, they needed a Darkness armed with the dreaded banstick (and a machinegun or two wouldn't hurt either).



Now, you see, I would, and I'd love to, but you're oh so not even close :lol:

Seriously, Harry Cooper the hero...? I can't read it without snickering. Yeah, he wasn't the "bad guy", and I can see where he was coming from but I can safely say, they would have been better off if he had died and never reached the house.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b38/lcple3/hardman2.jpg Harry Cooper: Devoted Husband,Loving Father,Z-Day Surviver Extraordinaire

Cooper's insistence that the cellar would be a safe refuge turned out to be 100% sound. He may have been right for all the wrong reasons but regardless, his instincts on successfully weathering a zombie siege have proved to be self-evident. It's his atrocious people skills that did him in.

So here's to you, Cooper - if you weren't handicapped by such an abrasive personality, history might've told a very different story of the Night of the Living Dead.:drinking:

[Faran Brigo]

Yeah, in the end a redneck posse did come and clear out the zeds, but there wasn't any way of knowing if that would happen. What if help never came and the survivors had to fight their way out of the basement or starve/thirst to death?

Hiding in the cellar until help comes is contingent on help actually coming at some point. If every able bodied dead person started rising regardless of how and when they died there would be no safe zone, and help could take anything from weeks to months, or maybe never.

[Evil Pug]

Yeah, in the end a redneck posse did come and clear out the zeds, but there wasn't any way of knowing if that would happen. What if help never came and the survivors had to fight their way out of the basement or starve/thirst to death?

Hiding in the cellar until help comes is contingent on help actually coming at some point. If every able bodied dead person started rising regardless of how and when they died there would be no safe zone, and help could take anything from weeks to months, or maybe never.

Right before the power went out, Sheriff McClelland said on the T.V. that they would be hooking up with the National Guard at the town of Willard. So they did know that help was on the way. If Ben didn't argue the whole time with Harry they would had plenty of time to stock the cellar with food and water to survive a long siege. The problem was that both Harry and Ben wanted to be the Alpha Male of the group.

[UNDEAD FRED]

Right before the power went out, Sheriff McClelland said on the T.V. that they would be hooking up with the National Guard at the town of Willard. So they did know that help was on the way. If Ben didn't argue the whole time with Harry they would had plenty of time to stock the cellar with food and water to survive a long siege. The problem was that both Harry and Ben wanted to be the Alpha Male of the group.

Going on this point it was allready after Tom n Judy where killed while attempting to get the gas for the truck, the others left alive did not know the area, Im sure they didnt know how far Willard was away. And if rescue would come to that farmhouse, one of many in the area, and I think Willard was over 10 miles away. And with the power out, and probilly little fuel left in the kerosene lamps, are you going to sit in that deathtrap in the dark for an unkown period of time while zombies are beating on the only door. I wouldnt want to fight Coopers kid in the dark either. Seeing that NOTLD zombies could use basic instruments such as table legs, rocks the cellar door will not stand up against a repeated assualt. the wood can give, the door hinges can give away. You wouldnt stand a chance in that death trap.

[Bad Zombie Night]

Ben was the bad guy.

Now I know why they call you Evil Pug. :evil: :lol:



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/bzn123/ATZ%20Pics/evilpug.jpg

[Faran Brigo]

Right before the power went out, Sheriff McClelland said on the T.V. that they would be hooking up with the National Guard at the town of Willard. So they did know that help was on the way. If Ben didn't argue the whole time with Harry they would had plenty of time to stock the cellar with food and water to survive a long siege. The problem was that both Harry and Ben wanted to be the Alpha Male of the group.

They also said the people were deranged murderers instead of walking corpses, that it might all be due to venus radiation, and that the idea of the dead walking was "preposterous" (if I remember correctly), and of course the fact that they were directing people to rescue stations that were later overwhelmed, only to advise later that people should try to stay where they are... They said a lot of things that were flat out false or incorrect and probably got people killed.

That aside, even though the sheriff said they'd link up at Willard, that didn't mean that:

A) It would happen before they got killed, starved or overwhelmed by the zombies.

B) It would happen at ALL, since the whole zombies rising to kill everyone thing might make that... difficult.

C) They would proceed to make a sweep of the area instead of holing up to try to defend Willard as a safe zone for refugees.

D) The sweep would be successful instead of a rout by the hordes of zombies.

Those 4 are just off the top of my head. But you are right of course, both Ben and Harry wanted to be in charge, and that was a large part of the problem, but that makes Harry 50% of the problem now doesn't it? hardly a "hero" and "bad guy" situation. Ben's plan also had problems and what-ifs, but chances are it would have probably worked too if they all cooperated. Again, that's kind of the point of the movie, everyone can be "right" in their own sense but since nobody cooperates, everybody dies.

Honestly I thought the idea was delivered rather clumsily and was kind of preachy and self evident, but apparently it's not as obvious as I thought, so go figure. The character I hated the most from the original NoTLD wasn't even Harry though, it was Barbra.

[Evil Pug]

Now I know why they call you Evil Pug. :evil: :lol:



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/bzn123/ATZ%20Pics/evilpug.jpg

LOL !!! :lol:

[Bad Zombie Night]

LOL !!! :lol:

Glad to see that you've changed your avatar... I couldn't make heads or tails out of the other one. :lol:



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/bzn123/Smileys/Signs%20and%20Gestures/BackToTopic.gif http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/bzn123/Smileys/Characters/1bnz_smiley.gif

[Faran Brigo]

It was the Umbrela corporation's logo... :lol:

[ZombiesAteMyDog]

yea, there was too much machismo floating around that house and no one to keep it in check, look at the ending of the remake, why do you think it ended so difrently? because barbara wasnt in a fear coma, she had a good head on her shoulders and tried her damndest to keep those 2 in check, even though in the end she was the lone survivor.

I still think its hard to say harry was wrong, the fact is at the end of the movie of all the people in the house only one is left alive, and thats ben, and the only reason he lived is because he went into the basement, if they all had, they all would have lived.

[Faran Brigo]

I think the reason the remake ended very differently was because they made Cooper much more of a cartoon villain, AND Barbara's character was active too. I didn't like what they did with Cooper though, he went from being a normal guy who cracked to being a complete and utter pr*ck from beggining to end.

[fester_hicks]

i like it because the zeds were eating anything and everything..

[Evil Pug]

Glad to see that you've changed your avatar... I couldn't make heads or tails out of the other one. :lol:



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/bzn123/Smileys/Signs%20and%20Gestures/BackToTopic.gif http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/bzn123/Smileys/Characters/1bnz_smiley.gif

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b38/lcple3/EvilPugProductionsLogo.gif :lol:

[Faran Brigo]

It's interesting how infighting sparks even within a messageboard in peacetime. The effects of confinement, the continuous moans of zeds, and a siege mentality will add up to the tension. It's also very telling that (if I remember correctly) in a thread where we were talking about skills, pretty much half the people said they would be great leaders.

How would you either as leader or member prevent a group from falling into bickering and infighting? how should group choices be made? who should be the leader? what should be the extent of his authority? what kind of people are such a liability that your group is better off without them? Just a few questions to get the ball rolling.

[Necrowerx]

I think the basement would've been a death trap. Tom agreed with Ben. Ben only got pushed down there at the last minute because there was no where else to go. Ben had had to bust the door in to get in; that compromised the security of the place, and riled the zombies up.
You always leave yourself an escape route, just in case. No one knew with any absolute certainty if or when help was coming - broadcast notwithstanding. Just because it turned out one way didn't mean that was the only direction fate could've taken, and you should plan for the worst.
However, I agree that Harry was sort of trapped, with a weakened daughter, not much running he could do.

Ben struck me as a very methodical, level-headed, and rational man, he was trying to make the best of a bizarre set of circumstances and no one could have done anything 100% perfect or foreseen the longer term indirect consequences of their actions.
Had the posse not come through there (no one knew for sure they would) they could just as easily died down there in the basement- or worse. In fact, two of them did.
He definitely could've boarded the house up better though.

Ben's wasn't the best plan either. I would've gone upstairs w/ supplies, and bashed the stairs out. If you need to exit, you don't need to jump - you make a rope from bedsheets, scale down quickly (or swing), then make a run for it.
Things only really started to go wrong when Tom and Judy fumbled at the pump. It was a good idea though.

Ben's slap to a hysterical Barbra was typical for the time, remember. That was often portrayed in movies and TV as the way to bring someone out of hysterics. It was cliche. Nothing unique or abusive there, he was just trying to get her to get her wits back about her - that's the first tool you need to battle a zombie invasion.

I generally saw Harry as a coward and arrogant, self-absorbed man, and I believe that's how he was supposed to be portrayed and interpreted.
He knew full well normal people were upstairs (as Ben said rhetorically, "You didn't hear her scream? You didn't try to help?!" and yet Harry only came up to check when things sounded like he might be able to score more supplies for himself. He started arguing first, not Ben, IIRC.
Harry also neglected to immediately inform his wife there was a radio/TV upstairs, only mentioning it as an aside to his wife. He did not seem to consider updating his family w/ critical info a big priority. You can see the wife's attitude of exasperation with him. She too thought it was better to be on the main floor.

When Tom and Judy stupidly got themselves killed (not Ben's fault, he tried to keep Judy from running out there), Ben ran to help, not Harry; Harry then unnecessarily locked out Ben in a cowardly fit, stranding him for zombie chow; when Ben busted in and started nailing the door shut again, Harry froze again in fear and indecision, acting almost as useless as Barbra. He seemed to be having a moral dilemma, or was waiting to see Ben get bitten. I think he finally started helping only because he knew it'd save his own skin to get that door re-nailed. I don't blame Ben for punching his lights out one bit. I hated that guys guts from the moment I first saw him on screen. Even his wife didn't seem to care very much when he got shot, IIRC.

The only thing really dumb that Ben did was not to speak up at the end, IMO, thus getting himself shot. Maybe he just wasn't sure he was totally alone in the house just yet.

And dammit, I hadn't seen NOTLD04 yet, so thanks ZombiesAteMyDog, you just gave away the ending! :-P This was supposed to be about NOTLD68, lol

[Gummerfan]

A Musical Tribute To Harry Cooper:

There's a jerk in the cellar, a really stupid guy
A jerk in the cellar and he really needs to die
I know I oughta kill him, but that is homicide
And then I'd be no better than those things outside
(spoken) But then again, at least I wouldn't eat him.

There's a jerk in the cellar but I've still got the gun
At any sign of trouble he'll just wet his pants and run
The dead are up and walking, it's enough to drive you nuts
But that's no excuse for being such a putz!!

-Night Of The Living Dead: The Musical-

[Necrowerx]

A Musical Tribute To Harry Cooper:

There's a jerk in the cellar, a really stupid guy
A jerk in the cellar and he really needs to die
I know I oughta kill him, but that is homicide
And then I'd be no better than those things outside
(spoken) But then again, at least I wouldn't eat him.

There's a jerk in the cellar but I've still got the gun
At any sign of trouble he'll just wet his pants and run
The dead are up and walking, it's enough to drive you nuts
But that's no excuse for being such a putz!!

-Night Of The Living Dead: The Musical-

LOL !!!! Awesome. I hate musicals but that might just work.

[homelitexl]

yeah they sure were stupid fire+gas=fried human i would have took a saw and supplies to floor two and cut the stairs 0ut after siphoning the gas outa that chicks car and filling the truck up parked it below a window comes to it just drive away:poo:

[50 cal]

Ditto on taking everything upstairs and destroying the stairs behind you. If something happens you can still escape out a window. You are hopelessly trapped in the basement.

Have the day off today. Will need to watch NoTLD on the 50" now.:)

[homelitexl]

yeah cept id have a hummer outside

[KrimsonKing]

Since I would only stay the night at a place like that I wouldn’t even bother with nailing the doors and taking out the stairs. I’d just stay in the attic or crawlspace, if your quiet they wouldn’t even know your there, also I possibly might stay low on the roof.

Given the lack of light, noise, and movement because I won’t bother with barricades/demolition the Zoms wouldn’t have any incentive to check out the house in the first place.

[Bob]

You would not want to stay in the attic in the summer time waaaay to hot.

[RIP]

One of the best parts of NOTLD 68 for me is where Harry Cooper and Ben argue about barricading themselves in the basement, or boarding up and defending the farm house. What would you of done? Or done differently?

It's stupid imho to barricade yourself in a basement cause you have no escape. I mean the zombies are slow as grandma from the old Wendy's commercial who use to say "Where's the beef" lol....you could out run those freaks and still have time to take a nap so why would you barricade yourself.:lol:

[Lurker13]

Err, i may be wrong but wasn't mr coopers daughter infected? If my memory is correct, i fail to see how any person of sane mind & body would say it's a good idea to lock oneself in a basement with a ZOMBIE!:loon:

Very goog point! When they had to kill her it would hvae started a shoot out in the basement.