Post holocaust power and you

[Faran Brigo]

Some people have already mentioned it but I think it fits better here than at regular zombie talk, since it's part of survival.

Would you like to be far away from nuclear reactors? Would they meltdown on their own?

I think that's pretty unlikely. They're not going to go "Chernobyl", I think most likely the engineers will just shut down the reactor before they run or become overwhelmed. It's a zombie outbreak, not an earthquake, there's plenty of warning time and shutting down a reactor is a quick process, precisely because this is not the kind of thing you can take long doing.

Some reactors are passively safe, meaning they shut down on their own without electronic or human input, just due to the way they are designed. If that doesn't happen, there's a chance the reaction will die out from nuclear poison (unfissionable elements building up and slowing the reaction down basically). If not, the reactor containment building in most modern nuclear reactors should, at least in theory, hold up as long as there is no excessive gas acumulation.

http://www.insc.anl.gov/pwrmaps/map/north_america.png

Considering air currents and fallout distribution, where COULD you escape to anyway? the reactors on the image (red spots) are just pressurized water types, it still leaves out other kinds of commercial power plants, and government reactors (research, weapons manufacture, etc.).

[fester_hicks]

Mexico, Canada and the Dakotas are looking pretty safe

[Faran Brigo]

The last bit referred more to people living on the east coast where the concentration of reactors are high. You could still get away, but it'd be much trickier, you'd have to cross the country with hordes of zeds on the prowl, so if that's the case you reeeally ought to get an early start.

[Subgenius]

The reactor itself is not the main problem. They will automatically, and safely, shut down. That is when the clock starts ticking. So, get out of the State fast because you have ten days and nine hours to escape the nuclear power plant's radius of damage and contamination. The cause of this will be the spent fuel rods building, which must have flowing refrigerated water to keep them cool.

Chernobyl contaminated 50,000 square miles; an area the size of Alabama. That was just one reactor accident. US nuclear power plants and European power plants (75 in the US, and 130 in Europe) will contaminate an area 20 times the size of Chernobyl. Strontium-90 (lasting 300 years) and plutonium radiation (lasting 240,000 years) would radiate out from every ignited spent fuel rods facility.

So, the President of the US, or whomever takes his place if he's dead, would have to secure the 75 nuke plants during that ten day period. They would have to get every drop of diesel fuel sent to those nuke plants to fuel the electric generators that maintain the spent fuel rods building. So, oil wells would also have to be secured and maintained.

This would require something like 100 soldiers per nuke plant to secure it and maintain it. I suppose that ten soldiers might be able to do it, but I would worry about that in a zombie outbreak. Those power plants are located in Zed Central in the East Coast. 44 million people live between Richmond, VA and Boston Mass.

[AN OLD SHOE]

im on the east coast :cry:

[UNDEAD FRED]

I guess I better head to Canada

[AN OLD SHOE]

i live in florida...thats a long drive for me... :cry::cry::cry:

[Barbara]

OH jesus Im screwed!!!

*look at where im from*

[Behemoth]

interesting one this, in the event of a zombie outbreak, the goverment would attempt to secure the power plants ( coal, waste or nuclear ) in my opinion one problem they would have would be the skilled members of staff wanting to get home, would they be forced to stay? if so would they fabricate a tale to seal up the reactors just to get themselves the heck out? without power the cities would be no go areas, well montana here i come.

[Subgenius]

interesting one this, in the event of a zombie outbreak, the goverment would attempt to secure the power plants ( coal, waste or nuclear ) in my opinion one problem they would have would be the skilled members of staff wanting to get home, would they be forced to stay? if so would they fabricate a tale to seal up the reactors just to get themselves the heck out? without power the cities would be no go areas, well montana here i come.

It would have to be a "cold hard facts" talk with those nuclear plant workers. It would be a choice: 1) stay and run the equipment in the spent fuel rods building, or 2) immediate execution. Then, I would tell them that no matter where the run in the US, no matter who they know or whatever, they will not escape the effects of the disaster that would follow. And, if they run, then they get no promise of access to an underground military facility with enough food and water to survive the nuclear disaster.

But, the reality of the situation in a zombie outbreak scenario would mean that when the military showed up at the nuclear power plants, then the first thing that they would have to do is kill any zombies inside of the nuke plant perimeter. They would likely be important nuke plant operators, but they would be zombie nuke plant operators, LOL.

There is a solution! The US Navy has a large pool of nuclear experts. I think that the Army and the Air Force also have experts. So, they could assemble their own teams to secure and operate the nuclear power plants.

The real problem here is that the zombies would pose a constant threat to supply lines. If food, water, and (most important) the diesel fuel do not keep flowing to the 75 nuclear power plants, then the game is up, nuke winter, radiation sickness, more zombies, and Hell on earth. How can the military maintain a constant military action against an overwhelming enemy just to keep the nuke plants from ending human existence?

[AN OLD SHOE]

yeah....i would stay where i am until i know the nuke plants are gone...then i would get my ass in a plane or helicopter and go to mexico

[Darkness]

"Note To Self: Take Flying Lessons." :lol:

[AN OLD SHOE]

hhaha....well i will just wing it...hopefully its easy...but either way i will die so i guess i will try my wings out

[DarthJoe8]

Man theres a lot to worry about. As if Zeds weren't enough.:scare:

[AN OLD SHOE]

yeah i know..i can survive zombies for years and years...but if there is a nuclear meltdown...im prolly dead...unless i haul ass to an underground unker for the next 40 years...

[UNDEAD FRED]

"Note To Self: Take Flying Lessons." :lol:

Flygirl:lol:

[Darkness]

"Flying Ace, your Eye in the Sky." :)

[UNDEAD FRED]

Yep, and were just out taking traffic reports, wake up sucker!!! Were thieves and were bad guys:lol:


*Peter - Dawn of the Dead 78

[Behemoth]

hhaha....well i will just wing it...hopefully its easy...but either way i will die so i guess i will try my wings out LOL, you should read some of the accident reports of novice pilots, you would need about 15 hours minimum ( above average ability ) to understand taking off & landing.yeah....i would stay where i am until i know the nuke plants are gone...then i would get my ass in a plane or helicopter and go to mexico Well it would depend on how long you would hide, i don't expect there to be any fuel around for the aircraft, if you can find one with a service certificate!

[Z-Day is very soon]

i might need to move away from ohio or i might grow a third leg on my forehead
from all the radiation:lol::drinking:

[Dave Of The Dead]

I have been rolling this around in my head for a couple days now. A lot of people think that after a couple days of the zombie panic, the Power Plants, Water Treatment Centers, Dams, and other important resources will completely shut down or fail. I think otherwise.

While a lot of power plants are run off of coal and nuclear energy, many are now being run off of infinite, eco-friendly resources like wind, water, and geothermal energy. I imagine that a lot of these plants are self sufficient, with the only workers there being preventive maintenance personnel. Coal power plants will slowly burn themselves out and I can imagine Nuclear power plants being shut down as a first priority to prevent meltdown and even radiation damage.

Even resources like the internet, I can imagine being up throughout the crisis. If you carry a laptop, you can install map programs to plan and mark locations for raiding and other things. If the power stays on, so will the internet, most likely.

Water treatment centers and dams are another subject. I have been to a water/sewage treatment center and have noticed that, again, all operation there is self operated by machine with the only people there being preventive maintenance. I can see water being available through pipes indefinitely. Though, water quality might become an issue, or maybe not.

What do you think?

[Faran Brigo]

Define "many". I would define the total number of renewable power supplies in the U.S. as "ridiculously small".

Around half of the electricity generated in the U.S. comes from coal fired thermal plants, nearly 25% comes from nuclear power, and the third runner up is gas power. Source: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epat1p1.html

That means, roughly, that around 80% of all power will be down. In other words, even though consumption will probably dry up, powered communities will be an exception, not the rule. The internet sadly, won't last online for long. Some servers will no doubt stay up for awhile either because their power supplies are renewable, or due to batteries, but they will eventually shut down as well. Even if some servers stay running indefinitely, between power failures and infrastructure damage (bound to be severe during a panicked evacuation from urban areas) most of the internet will go down in less than a couple of months.

Gas and other utilities will be shutdown to prevent accidents. As for water, yes, water will be available as long as your area is also powered, although eventually (6 months, give or take 3) they will run out of disinfectant or the equipment will fail due to damage. Contrary to what you might think, water works, even if automated, require a steady supply of water treatment chemicals (like disinfectants, antiscalants, antifoam agents, etc.) which depend on regular deliveries.

[Hitman]

I know browns ferry and most of the other nuke plants on the Tn river would probly be safe for a while. so long as the river is still flowing. the system goes into safe mode on accident every once in a while due to the pressure from the river against the valves.

[DemonChild]

ditto. I live in TN and he's right, it'll most likely be ok.

[kolchakTNS]

Saw a documentary a few days ago titled Aftermath:Population Zero which explains the sudden disappearance of mankind,no explanation given. But it does explain in detail about unmanned nuclear power plants and industrial chemical plants from all over the world,and the outcome is pretty grim:-(
Worth the viewing.
Luckily for me I live Downunder:lol:

[Running From Zombies]

After a zombie attack sets in and the world begins collapsing, how long do you think the power would stay online? What kind of hope can you have of generating your own power? Could a bicycle generator conceivably power much of anything? If so, what?

How difficult would be to create a windmill generator? What kind of manpower/expertise would that require? How well would solar panels work?

For all these questions I mean for a small group/town, not a massive city.

[Faran Brigo]

http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15675&page=2

Some of those questions have already been asked and answered, and the others also belong in that thread. Please use the "search" feature next time.

[Running From Zombies]

I surely did use the search function, I simply searched for some the wrong items. My apologies on my nuclear questions, but as for most of my other questions they would not fit into a topic called "Post holocaust nuclear power and you". But I'll change my topic accordingly.

[Faran Brigo]

I know, but the mods decided to just lump it all together in a sort of "infrastructure" thread, so I figured this belonged there as well.

[biohazard]

Let's play a little game. Something will happen roughly a week after (give or take a few days) the outbreak that will affect every single living creature on this planet. Everything will be affected to some degree (depending on geographical location) and nothing can escape it. Can you guess what? If not, it means you didn't think about a zombie outbreak realistically and left out one of the most important and overlooked points of survival. The winner gets a cookie!

Tip: it happens as a result of people not working anymore, and yes everything is affected negatively.

[mattifikation]

All kinds of crap fits the stuff you just said.

[Darkness]

"Global Technology will fail on a grand scale. Leaving us in what will be considered a dark age, which we have little chance of surviving. All because no one is around to keep all the machines working, including computers. Which run over 75% of the world's workings, including, but not limited to, defense, commerce, import/export and transportation."

"Because............."

"The World is falling into a state of Chemical Athropy, born of a Mechanically induced Apathy."

[South City Si]

To be fair what you have to worry about is the chance of nuclear fallout from nuclear power plants or nukes held underground as the systems and mechanisms keeping them safe would fail.
It's not just the Z'z that would f ou up!

[Bob]

I wish I knew more about the operation of a nuclear power plant.
Since I don't I am going to let myself believe that the automatic systems would shut it down before it melted down.

I doubt the nuclear weapons are going to launch themselves so again I am going to let myself believe they would just sit in their silos for years before any problems occurred.

[homelitexl]

civilization as we know it collapses, beer becomes currency, and the zeds are caused by a certain fatty acid found only in lays potatoe chips. Hail to the king.

[Bob]

Homelite

You are closer to correct than you know.
When the barter system goes into effect Alcohol will become more valuable than your girlfriends honor. Beer will for the most part be a nasty uncarbonated home brew. Distilled spirits will be where it is at.

[biohazard]

South City Si receives one (1) cookie. Limited to one per poster. Cupon not applicable to undead.

However, nuclear fallout is not a "chance". It would be a reality and it would happen shortly after the outbreak. This is how things will unfold:

- Within a week (probably closer to 3-4 days) cities will run out of electricity either due to a shortage of coal in plants or system overloads leading to automatic shutdowns on things such as hydro plants
- Nuclear reactors have gas powered coolers in order to keep the rods below a certain temperature in case of a power failure that will be kicking in. However, this fuel would only last a maximum of a few days
- Once the fuel runs out the massive pools of heavy water the nuclear materials are kept under start to warm up
- The water starts to boil and evaporate
- BOOM!

This fallout will be hundreds of times stronger than the Chernobyl disaster ever was. No one escapes it. Suddenly the only ones safer are the ones in regions without nuclear power plants close by. This might include the poles, northern Canada, Africa, etc. Humanity faces an invisible enemy stronger than any zombie force. Rain becomes the worst enemy as it collects radioactive particles from the air and baptizes the ground with it.

Have you ever really thought and prepared about that aspect of an outbreak?

[Darkness]

"Now that I know where this is going, I know where it should be."

[biohazard]

I didn't see the other thread, sorry.

[Darkness]

"No problem. Glad to be of assistance." :)

[Subgenius]

Yeah, nuclear power plants will cause more deaths than the zombies. It will only take nine hours for the diesel powered back-up generators to burn up their fuel. Without a person to run the controls at the nuke plant, the plant will automatically kick in the back-up generators. That will happen to roughly 75 nuke plants in the North Eastern corridor of the Eastern seaboard of the US. Europe has even more such plants.

The problem is not the nuclear reactor, as pointed out above, it is in the spent fuel rods building on the same site as the nuclear reactor. Power comes from the plant to keep the refrigerator/cooling units powered up. Without a human control, the plant will shut down to prevent a meltdown. That's when the nine-hour long diesel generators kick in.

When the diesel generators shut down, then the entire spent fuel rods building will heat up to a meltdown point that will cause an environmental disaster on a scale never before seen. Virtually nowhere will be safe from that. There are too many nuke plants in the US and in Europe as well as other places like Russia and so forth.

If the military survived the outbreak, then they might be able to secure the power plants in the US and thus limit the danger. But, they would constantly have to bring in fuel every nine hours or bring in enough to last a long time. Or, they would need to secure the nuke plants before they auto shut-down.

Also, in the last ten years, Europeans have been burying their spent fuel rods deep underground, which supposedly makes them less dangerous. I think that we have begun to do the same thing in the US and Canada.

[Krazymouse]

Throw the Rods into the ocean, because the ocean is cold

[Darkness]

"The ocean is ALSO a salt water conductor." :lol:

[Gummerfan]

I know browns ferry and most of the other nuke plants on the Tn river would probly be safe for a while. so long as the river is still flowing. the system goes into safe mode on accident every once in a while due to the pressure from the river against the valves.
I live right across the river from Browns Ferry. I consider myself fortunate that if it ever goes, I'll never know what hit me. :lol:
Seriously, every year TVA mails out free calendars to everyone in the area with survival instructions, evacuation routes, shelter locations, etc.
Our new one came today. :)

[voyager]

Well if the zombies hold out long enough nuclear power may be just around the corner (or under the garden rather).

http://www.physorg.com/news145561984.html

[2Cents Undead]

If you want to survive a zombie apocalypse dont do it alone, join ZAC, the Zombie Apocalypse Coallition. Join today

http://zombieapocalypsecollaboration.ning.com/

[Darius]

Zombies are one thing but what about the power plants i mean it takes time to shut the reactors and nobody would turn them off in advance noone expects for a zombie outbreak and i do think that the once it starts the workers would get there asses back home to their families.They would become ticking bombs i mean if a reactor would blow the radiation from one nuclear power plant would spread world wide and the survivors would have even less chances of surviving...

[Subgenius]

Zombies are one thing but what about the power plants i mean it takes time to shut the reactors and nobody would turn them off in advance noone expects for a zombie outbreak and i do think that the once it starts the workers would get there asses back home to their families.They would become ticking bombs i mean if a reactor would blow the radiation from one nuclear power plant would spread world wide and the survivors would have even less chances of surviving...

The reactors have fail-safe auto-shutdown systems. They are not the problem. What is the problem are the spent fuel rods buildings on-site at almost all American and most non-American nuclear power plants. The spent fuel rods must be kept super-cold or they will meltdown and cause a huge environmental disaster multiplied by the numbers of nuclear power plants.

Some Euro nuclear plants no longer store the spent fuel rods on-site at the nuclear power plants. They are now being stored, more and more, underground in special facilities. As some of you may know, it actually gets colder deep down under the ground before you start getting to deep that you start getting closer to the core. But, that is far, far deeper than we have ever gone before.

What shocked me is when I first found out that nuclear power plant spent fuel rod buildings are powered mainly by the main reactor itself. When the fail-safe auto-shutdown safely turns the reactor off, then the spent fuel rods building switches over to back-up generators powered by diesel fueled electric generators. Those generators run for only nine hours. That means that the survivors would have just nine hours after the zombie invasion wiped out the nuclear power plant technicians and the reactors fail safe shut them down.

[DarthJoe8]

When the fail-safe auto-shutdown safely turns the reactor off, then the spent fuel rods building switches over to back-up generators powered by diesel fueled electric generators. Those generators run for only nine hours. That means that the survivors would have just nine hours after the zombie invasion wiped out the nuclear power plant technicians and the reactors fail safe shut them down.

:lol: The wife just finished reading Day by Day and was lamenting that she was depressed and needed to read something else...(She also just read City of the Dead and the Rising) :scare:

My point is that we started to discuss all the other issues that survivors would be facing such as the nuclear reactors, car batteries rotting, fluids leaking from autos, random buildings burning and the toxins that would be released....the list is long.....:scare:

Surviving the Zack attack would be one thing but I don't think we'd survive for long with all the other issues...:think:

[Ironzey]

We are all doomed!

[DarthJoe8]

We are all doomed!

QFT :clap:

:drinking:

[50 cal]

I bet at the outset of an outbreak the control rods would be scrammed to dampen the reaction.

The control rods will scram the reaction automatically if there is an absence of human interaction in a set period of time.

What you should fear more is the neglect at chemical plants. There are some factories that make some really nasty stuff like benzene. If that stuff is neglected it's Katy bar the door. You might as well bend over and kiss it goodbye.

Hmm, benzene, gaseous chlorine, cyanide(yes cyanide is still refined for agriculture use). Lots of nasty stuff out there that if left unattended will really ruin your day.

[Krazymouse]

http://www.insc.anl.gov/pwrmaps/map/world_map.png

Look at this map... Look at the Most non Nuclear continent. (Hint: Kangaroos) Look at the Most Nuclear Continent (Hint: They are over the seas if you live in America) Look at the Second Most Nuclear continent. The Most technologically advanced countries are gonna crash and all the simple countries win!

[mattifikation]

That's not merely because of nuclear power though. There are all kinds of reasons why less advanced civilizations will fare better than the advanced ones.

[Darius]

Ah crap we have one in Lithuania but they are actually thinking of shutting it down so the risk is smaller.But i hope Russians wont stop supplying the gas or else they will continue the work in nuclear power plants...

[Boomstick Buddy]

Note to self: Move to Ireland.

[Bob]

Damn all them there Nukelar states surroundin mine.
Durn fool yankees!

[Subgenius]

http://www.insc.anl.gov/pwrmaps/map/world_map.png

Look at this map... Look at the Most non Nuclear continent. (Hint: Kangaroos) Look at the Most Nuclear Continent (Hint: They are over the seas if you live in America) Look at the Second Most Nuclear continent. The Most technologically advanced countries are gonna crash and all the simple countries win!

As much as it seems like it would be safe in other countries where they have fewer or no nuclear power plants, there will be problems globally due to all of these spent fuel rods buildings melting down.

From Aftermath: Population Zero.Security measures in power plants fail. The equipment in the spent fuel buildings adjoining nuclear power plants that maintain the temperature level of the the spent nuclear fuel rods will shut down because the fossil fuel powered back up power generators will run out. At that point the cooling pools that prevent the spent nuclear fuel from overheating will start to boil. Radioactive steam will vent into the atmosphere because the water eventually evaporates and the spent fuel would set fire to the building, causing it to explode (non nuclear) emitting radiation not only in the immediate area of the plant but carried by winds around the globe. This is repeated dozens of times as shutdown nuclear plant spent fuel houses explode.That means trouble for everybody all around the globe. Although, places like you mentioned would suffer far, far less.

[Lian]

Hm...fun...This takes my idea of hey if there is a nuclear blast nearby I know how to survive theory and throws it out the window. One blast somewhere fine...live with it, if that many plants went most of the world is going to glow in the dark.

A change of strategy may be in order. :drool: Course there is always the ignore it and hope everything works out strategy. :-(

I'd like to imagine that there is a simple and easy way to secure those spent fuel rods so that they don't all blow up, and that there will be people readily available to deal with those...but...hm...

Well basically from where I sit right now the only way I can think around this is to run fast and far and stop sipping piña coladas in the rain. Cause let's be honest if anything really big did happen like a zombie apocalypse then we're just going to have to hope that someone somewhere manages to get a whole lot of other someones to do something about those plants before it's too late. :x

It might be a good idea to brush of your survival skill set in global fallout conditions.

[Corpse Grinder]

Maybe we should get one of these handy little things:

http://www.nukalert.com/

A bit pricey, but when it starts beeping, at least you'll know where your vehicle's keys are at so you can easily escape before you melt!

[Redfields]

http://www.insc.anl.gov/pwrmaps/map/world_map.png

Look at this map... Look at the Most non Nuclear continent. (Hint: Kangaroos) Look at the Most Nuclear Continent (Hint: They are over the seas if you live in America) Look at the Second Most Nuclear continent. The Most technologically advanced countries are gonna crash and all the simple countries win!

Go Australia, friend of the Kangaroos

[Lian]

Aside from the fact that that many nuclear objects going off globally would result in global fall out yea....Australia looks good. Really anywhere south of the equator has merit, really though your going to have to learn to rapidly evolve into a cockroach or something though, and my oh my is growing food going to be fun when the rain kills your crops and livestock. :cry:

[Cenobite]

10 days to go as far from the fascilities as possible? Sounds like a movie. I guess they can all scrap the "where will you hold up" threads because we all know nobody will bother maintaining to keep those storages cool.

[Subgenius]

There is some good news. Steps have been in place over the last few years to store the spent fuel rods underground in special facilities that do not require any people or diesel fuel generators in order to keep the spent fuel rods cold. The deeper you go underground, to a certain extent, the hotter it will get. Of course, if you go too deep, then you hit the magma core and THAT is, of course, super-hot.

But, the continental crust above the mantle is 20 miles to 30 miles thick depending upon where you are in the world. In the first few miles underground it is actually fairly cold all the time. The spent fuel rods will be stored in a deep geological repository, which is a nuclear waste repository excavated below 1000 to 2000 feet underground. The facilities are designed to provide a high level of long-term storage without future maintenance.

The US is now working on two such facilities: the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository (under discussion, located 80 miles northwest of Las Vegas, Nevada) and the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant (in production, located 26 miles east of Carlsbad, New Mexico).

[Krazymouse]

Thats good, But i still think we are screwed

[DarthJoe8]

This thing could be a life saver. I found it on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FIUSCC/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p263_t1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=1BFQMQDEHX5ZW2PKFKGR&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470939031&pf_rd_i=507846

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/316YKVKR35L._SS500_.jpg

I think you'd be set with a couple of these when the ZPAW goes down..:eat:

[DarthJoe8]

:doh: .....

[mattifikation]

It must be a nuclear windmill.

[DarthJoe8]

I was thinking...:think: One of the worst things to happen is that the power goes out...but what if you had one of these??

From amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FIUSCC/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p263_t1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=1BFQMQDEHX5ZW2PKFKGR&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470939031&pf_rd_i=507846

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/316YKVKR35L._SS500_.jpg

I think you'd be set with a couple of these when the ZPAW goes down..:eat: Solar power could also be used. This all seems pretty inexpensive to set up also. :drinking:

I remember watching Soylent Green when Thorn (Heston) is riding a bicycle to charge a battery to provide lights. It might not be so bad when the grid goes down...:think: assuming that you're prepared. :scare:

What else could be used and how difficult would it really be to set up? :think: Must keep the beer cold....we must!! :drinking:

[mattifikation]

I once saw a video where the world's only two educated rednecks used garbage to build a water mill that generated enough power to light a cabin

[Bob]

I think they spell it edjumacated.

[Darkness]

"I'm going to say this bluntly. This Topic Thread is NOT that long! Stop trying to make another one!"

[mattifikation]

"Some people have already mentioned it but I think it fits better here than at regular zombie talk, since it's part of survival.

Would you like to be far away from nuclear reactors? Would they meltdown on their own?"

I see. The windmills are to blow the fallout off in another direction.

[Darkness]

"This thread was allowed to expand in topic, to include all alternative power sources that may, or may not, be a good idea in a Post-Zombie Apocalyptic World."

[hightechredneck]

the problem is where youre getting your info, i am a nuclear tech, and the info in those shows are delibritly sensasionalized to try to scare people, just like it did, most cooling ponds are set up with a thermal flow system so the hot water circulates away from the rods to a cooling area, and would function for quite a while. the real problem wont arise for quite a while. with no maintance when the water levels start to go down and you end up with exposed rods. also you use chernobyl as an example and i dont believe that the us currently has any of that style of power plants in operation any more.:loon:

[Bob]

HTR

What would the results of no make up water be and how much time would we have?

I won't hold you to the answer I would just like some idea.

[mattifikation]

"Not for quite awhile" means it still happens eventually, right? It's not like the zombies would be coming over to hang out for the weekend. They come, they stay, society collapses and government vanishes for decades.

the problem is where youre getting your info, i am a nuclear tech, and the info in those shows are delibritly sensasionalized to try to scare people, just like it did, most cooling ponds are set up with a thermal flow system so the hot water circulates away from the rods to a cooling area, and would function for quite a while. the real problem wont arise for quite a while. with no maintance when the water levels start to go down and you end up with exposed rods. also you use chernobyl as an example and i dont believe that the us currently has any of that style of power plants in operation any more.:loon:

[DarthJoe8]

"Not for quite awhile" means it still happens eventually, right? It's not like the zombies would be coming over to hang out for the weekend. They come, they stay, society collapses and government vanishes for decades.


Which is why you need a wind turbine....to keep the beer cold!! :drinking:Or some solar panels...:think: must keep beer cold....we must!!:scare:

[mattifikation]

I wonder if there's anywhere to go to get away from the fallout. I once heard that if you go by prevailing wind patterns, the southernmost parts of South America are the furthest down wind that you can get of nuclear power plants other than going to Antarctica.

I can't find the source that said that, though. And I've never found anything to back that up. And I also don't know if it's someplace that would actually be safe...

[Darkness]

"I heard that if you can get high enough, it can't reach you, because it's too heavy to rise above a certain elevation." :think:

[mattifikation]

I bet that's a *really* high elevation though. You'd probably have to be above rain clouds.

[Darkness]

"Or maybe it's just above the timberline, where it's too cold for trees, and the air is extremely thin."

[homelitexl]

homelite loves nuclear :hug:

[ZombieBruce]

i live in south dakota one of the least poplulated states in america were the people have a collection of guns per house so i feel realativly safe

[mattifikation]

This entire country has ADD, doesn't it?

[DarthJoe8]

"Or maybe it's just above the timberline, where it's too cold for trees, and the air is extremely thin."


and where Zack wouldn't be able to get at you. :drinking:

[Krazymouse]

I believe the government has 2 options.

1. Secure each of them, Fuel them with every last drop of fuel. Then they are screwed.

2. Use a natural resource.

I personally think number 2 would be an excellent Idea, what that means is, many things.

Such as putting the Control Rods in the bottom of the ocean :| It might work, as long as you keep a way to make sure they don't leak out. The bottom of the Ocean is cold :D

Also, what about just simply blasting spent control rods into space :O I mean just send them as far as we can from here, and let them go off on like some distant galaxy or in the middle of space :D

[mattifikation]

Who would do all that when zombies are taking over? If there's people left to blast the rods into space or put them in the ocean (which would kill everything in the ocean,) then there's people left to man the reactors. So why bother?

[Krazymouse]

Becayse when we man the reactors, our oil is going to run out. When it does, such as supply lines being shut down, or say zombies attacking the reactors, then we are all screwed. Shoot them into space to get rid of them :D

[Bob]

Launch them into space on an orbit to take them into the sun...

[Subgenius]

I can see it now, a rocket is launched into space with a spent fuel rods payload and it accidentally explodes in the atmosphere. No good. Also, seriously, there are WAY, WAY too many spent fuel rods for that idea to be in any way practical. Sorry. It's not a practical option. Also, why risk dumping them into the ocean? That too has too many risks. The idea that is actually being put into place is the best way to go, which is that they are building special underground facilities deep underground where the spent fuel rods can be stored virtually forever with very, very low risks. We just need to hope that the zombie apocalypse does not happen during the nest ten years so that the facilities can be completed and the spent fuel rods stored properly.

[Bob]

I still think the Sun is the place to store them.

[Darkness]

"Drop em in a volcano, let the lava take care of them?" :lol:

[mattifikation]

If that volcano ever erupted, it would kill everyone on earth.

[Bob]

Would the internal lava flow melt the rods and redistribute the material to the point it was no longer dangerous?

[Darkness]

Would the internal lava flow melt the rods and redistribute the material to the point it was no longer dangerous?

"That's what I was thinking too." :)

[mattifikation]

I doubt it.

A nuclear explosion redistributes fallout over thousands of square miles, and it's still dangerous.

[Subgenius]

You want to keep the rods cold. Dropping them into a volcano would be BAD. It would make them heat up and then you are screwed.

[homelitexl]

stick them in a litle place called the moon esy

[Bob]

I don't get it.
I would expect the magma to melt the rods.
The resulting magma would move around and disperse the radioactive material.
Now true enough if the volcano went active before the dispersal was complete then it would send highly radioactive material into the air.
I wonder how long the dispersal would take?

[Subgenius]

I don't get it.
I would expect the magma to melt the rods.
The resulting magma would move around and disperse the radioactive material.
Now true enough if the volcano went active before the dispersal was complete then it would send highly radioactive material into the air.
I wonder how long the dispersal would take?

Check this out: Evaluating Consequences of Volcanism for Spent Nuclear Fuel at Yucca Mountain, Nevada (http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007AGUFM.V11D0811C)

"...with a melting point >2800C, much higher than magma temperatures of 1000-1200C. Spent fuel would not dissolve in magma..."

[Bob]

Well Crap!

[homelitexl]

launch the basterds to the moon

[Darkness]

"Well, if you can't melt them, what about freezing them? Heart of the South Pole anyone?" :think:

[Bob]

Well they are supposed to be kept cool.

[homelitexl]

uh the moon is colder

[mattifikation]

Actually, what they should do is coat them with phosphorous material and then put solar panels next to them. Radiation is energy. Why waste it?

[Subgenius]

"Well, if you can't melt them, what about freezing them? Heart of the South Pole anyone?" :think:

While that seems ideal, it is still not practical. There are too many nuke plants with too many spent fuel rods to risk shipping them to Antarctica. It's easier and more practical to ship them to places like the Yucca Mountain complex. it's too difficult to guard the spent fuel rods at the South Pole. Believe it or not, storing them underground is a very COLD way to store them. It's deep enough that the heat of the sun no longer penetrates, but not deep enough to feel the heat of the molten core of the planet.

Storing the spent fuel rods underground also addresses the issue of the current storage facilities needed power to keep cool. Currently, if all humans cannot run the nuke plant, then the reactors automatically shut down. After that, the diesel generators will run for nine hours keeping the spent fuels rods buildings cold. Only nine hours. Then, they will heat up and cause a very serious disaster.

[homelitexl]

the moon nuff said

[Darkness]

"Another reason we need to consider other sources of power."

[Faran Brigo]

They could just break up the nuclear fuel rod assemblies in parts small enough so the fuel will never reach temperatures high enough to self-ignite or melt. The problem is that would take a lot of space (not necessarily a lot of time though), but I'm guessing with entire continents nearly depopulated, that wouldn't be such a big issue.

I don't think a ZPAW would be instantaneous, there would be time to react. Maybe not enough time to raise huge armies or launch dangerous stuff into the sun, but surely enough to disperse dangerous materials, including nuclear fuel and hazardous chemicals.