Identifying Zombies

[Darkness]

"Another thread talks about searching for survivors after the outbreak, and it reminded me of a thread I made that got lost in the cleaning."

"How do you tell if the people you find are among the true survivors? What would you do to make sure they aren't infected?"

[Faran Brigo]

Oooh nice to see you have mod status.

I'd stick to the basics: Check the survivor for bite wounds, and if possible temporary confinement and observation. It's not foolproof but it's a good way to improve your chances.

I wonder if animals are sensitive to whatever it is that makes zeds "undie"

[Darkness]

Oooh nice to see you have mod status.
"Thank you! I'll try and do my best to be fair and all." :)

I'd stick to the basics: Check the survivor for bite wounds, and if possible temporary confinement and observation. It's not foolproof but it's a good way to improve your chances.
"Good first step. I also think that the eyes, under certain light spectrum, would give them away."

I wonder if animals are sensitive to whatever it is that makes zeds "undie"
"Good thought. It's said that a dog can be trained to sniff out cancer and stuff, why not Zombies." :clap:

[Faran Brigo]

Hmm... It would certainly be great if that was the case, but why would the eyes give it away?

[Darkness]

"Don't dead, bloodless eyes give off a different hue under certain spectrum's of light?"

[Faran Brigo]

I guess, but that's probably an advanced infection stage.

[Darkness]

"Or they could be one of the first things to go bad, one never knows." ;-)

[Faran Brigo]

Right. Either way it's probably a good idea to check their eyes. Also, it would tell you if they were intoxicated so, that's good too probably :lol:

[Darkness]

"Excellent side point." :)

[detpat]

if the blood supply to the eyes goes bad the vision will go immediately. I believe that they would lose the ability to speak coherently first. after dead men don't talk!

[Faran Brigo]

Okay, so if you find a survivor, he's blind and has human bite or scratch marks, it's a pretty good bet that he's infected. I still say confinement and observation are preferable, when workable. Just in case, don't give him any of your rations or medicine, no point in wasting supplies on someone who might bite it, and then bite you :lol:

[Darkness]

"Confinement is a great idea, if you are stationary and have the means. But what about if you run into 'survivors' on the road/move? How can you be sure then?"

[detpat]

keep them at gunpoint and observe them until they spoil. talk to them, when they stop making sense [or the usual amount for guys like me] pop em.

[Darkness]

"I have a thought, but I don't have enough facts. Anyone here know a mortician? And yes, I am quite serious."

[Evil Pug]

If they want to get in my shelter, strip search and confinement.

[korosukami]

"I have a thought, but I don't have enough facts. Anyone here know a mortician? And yes, I am quite serious."
why do you need a mortitian?

[Subgenius]

Do a search on the biology of death. That will reveal a lot. It will also be morbid and maybe less than fun. If we use the Romero zombie model, then you will never know that a person had been infected. Roger, in Dawn of the Dead (1978), may well have simply died from the germs and bacteria in the zombie's mouth when it bit him. There is no evidence of a disease or infection causing the zombies to reanimate in any GAR movie about zombies.

The human mouth has more bacteria than a canines mouth. People freak out when a dog licks them, but not when other people kiss them. That is because our immune systems and our digestive track have evolved for that. But, if you get bit by another person, then that bite CAN kill you when left unattended. You will likely need a tetanus shot or a booster shot as well as antibiotics and wound treatments.

In both Dawn of the Dead films, original and remake, we see the high value placed upon life. Matt Frewer's character actually says it: (Frank) "You want... every... single... second." So, most people would not likely shoot a person simply because they showed signs of any illness.

[fester_hicks]

when in doubt, leather straps and a thick leather gag.

And a nail gun handy, just in case.

Saves ammo!!!!!!!!

[Darkness]

why do you need a mortitian?

"Because I have an experiment in mind, that takes access to dead bodies, in both an un-embalmed state and in an embalmed state. And the only job I know that has legal access to both, and living humans, is a Mortician."

[Faran Brigo]

......Okay, I'm not sure if we should be hearing this :lol:

[Darkness]

"It just deals with the prospect of the effect of different light spectrums, on the three different stages of the skin tissue."

[Faran Brigo]

Now that you mention it, coming to think about it, you could probably take a picture. People with deteriorated eye circulation shouldn't have the redeye effect.

[Darkness]

"Interesting point. Thank you." :think:

[mattifikation]

Wouldn't a quick look through an infrared scope show that there is no heat in a zombie's body, nor any functioning organs? That would be the easiest way to seperate the zombies from, say, delirious and terrified survivors.

I suppose you're talking about infected, yet still living people. What about a simple lie detector test? You could use one of those voice stress analyzers and ask if they've been bitten. Once they answer, no matter what they say, you'll know whether they really have been or not.

Clearly, the virus is present in an infected person's mouth. After all, it spreads when they bite you. This means the virus would be on their breath, which contains droplets of their saliva. Using a spectrometer, you might be able to tell them to open up and say "ahhh," and then detect the virus or some trace of it in their breath.

[detpat]

nope, the stress analyzer won't work on a person already scared shitless. On the other hand you might consider one of those ear thermometers. they take only an instant to work and give an accurate reading.

If you have the facility you need to segregate newcomers and have them strip down and examine them carefully.

[korosukami]

"It just deals with the prospect of the effect of different light spectrums, on the three different stages of the skin tissue."
i can get pics... know ppl in medicine that do autopsys... any med student gets access to dead bodies ^^

[Darkness]

i can get pics... know ppl in medicine that do autopsys... any med student gets access to dead bodies ^^

"But do they have access to the bodies in all three states? Living, Un-Embalmed and Embalmed?"

[korosukami]

that i do not know... i can tell you if i can tomorow...

[Darkness]

"Thanks. I appreciate the help." :)

[DarthJoe8]

If we use the Romero zombie model, then you will never know that a person had been infected. Roger, in Dawn of the Dead (1978), may well have simply died from the germs and bacteria in the zombie's mouth when it bit him. There is no evidence of a disease or infection causing the zombies to reanimate in any GAR movie about zombies.

The fact that people who die and come back to life shows that its something in the air so in Romero's world everyone is already infected. We just need to die.

Actually Peter says that he's seen a dozen guys get bit and none of them lasted more than 2-3 days. I don't think it was because the zombie didn't brush its teeth.:lol: (I don't remember exactly what Peter says but something like that)

In both Dawn of the Dead films, original and remake, we see the high value placed upon life. Matt Frewer's character actually says it: (Frank) "You want... every... single... second." So, most people would not likely shoot a person simply because they showed signs of any illness.

Not sure who Matt is but if thats the girls father with the bite on the hand, he didn't last a day before he died and came back so I don't think you can say that the zombie bites aren't lethal. Every one of Romero's movies shows that zombie bites are a death sentence.:scare:

Personally I've been bitten by animal and person and never even got a rash.:lol:

[Subgenius]

The fact that people who die and come back to life shows that its something in the air so in Romero's world everyone is already infected. We just need to die.

Actually Peter says that he's seen a dozen guys get bit and none of them lasted more than 2-3 days. I don't think it was because the zombie didn't brush its teeth.:lol: (I don't remember exactly what Peter says but something like that)

Not sure who Matt is but if thats the girls father with the bite on the hand, he didn't last a day before he died and came back so I don't think you can say that the zombie bites aren't lethal. Every one of Romero's movies shows that zombie bites are a death sentence.:scare:

Personally I've been bitten by animal and person and never even got a rash.:lol:

Good points.

Whatever reanimates the dead in Romero films can be guessed at, but never really known. Romero has never really said either way. And, the films always offered multiple reasons for the causes of zombification. Was it a chemical spill? Radiation from the Venus probe? Act of God (see my signature)? Romero enjoys that ambiguity.

Matt Frewer (Frank in DOTD 2004) was once called Max Headroom, LOL. And yes, he was the father that died from the bite. Humans do have a nasty bite. You likely had a tetanus shot within the ten year period before you had been bitten. I once stepped on a nail, but nothing happened. Rusty nails can be lethal to step on. But, I had all my inoculations. I also had antibiotics in my system from a recent illness. So, I may still have had some in my system.

But, in DOTD 1978 and 2004, the bites themselves may or may not have been the agent that killed. Zombies, for whatever reason, may have germs as severe as a Komodo dragons bite (they eat mostly carrion).Komodo dragons possess virulent bacteria in their saliva. These virulent bacteria cause septicemia in their victim; If an initial bite does not kill the prey animal and it escapes, it will commonly succumb within a week to the resulting infection.Zombies might possess a super-virulent bacteria that kills within hours. But, keep Romero's zombies separated from the DOTD 2004 zombies. The reason that I say that has to do with how Roger did NOT die within hours of his bite, and neither did the daughter in the basement in Night of the Living Dead. The fast-kill bite is a construct of the new remake. Andy also died quickly, almost immediately.

[DarthJoe8]

Good points.

Whatever reanimates the dead in Romero films can be guessed at, but never really known. Romero has never really said either way. And, the films always offered multiple reasons for the causes of zombification. Was it a chemical spill? Radiation from the Venus probe? Act of God (see my signature)? Romero enjoys that ambiguity.

Matt Frewer (Frank in DOTD 2004) was once called Max Headroom, LOL. And yes, he was the father that died from the bite. Humans do have a nasty bite. You likely had a tetanus shot within the ten year period before you had been bitten. I once stepped on a nail, but nothing happened. Rusty nails can be lethal to step on. But, I had all my inoculations. I also had antibiotics in my system from a recent illness. So, I may still have had some in my system.

But, in DOTD 1978 and 2004, the bites themselves may or may not have been the agent that killed. Zombies, for whatever reason, may have germs as severe as a Komodo dragons bite (they eat mostly carrion).Komodo dragons possess virulent bacteria in their saliva. These virulent bacteria cause septicemia in their victim; If an initial bite does not kill the prey animal and it escapes, it will commonly succumb within a week to the resulting infection.Zombies might possess a super-virulent bacteria that kills within hours. But, keep Romero's zombies separated from the DOTD 2004 zombies. The reason that I say that has to do with how Roger did NOT die within hours of his bite, and neither did the daughter in the basement in Night of the Living Dead. The fast-kill bite is a construct of the new remake. Andy also died quickly, almost immediately.

Yeah Komodos are nasty thats for sure. I've heard cat bites can get you really sick. I was more kidding around when i mentioned getting bitten and nothing happening. (I really have been bitten) I was lucky that i didn't get sick and yuppers, I've had a few tetanus shots in my youth.

Andy says it himself. Man they bite hard. They got me good. I figure that they hit an artery and he bled out. Remember the wash board? That thing was covered with blood and when they went to rescue the stupid girl the place was covered with blood.

And tru dat about 04 DOtD one of my biggest problems was the die from a bite come back don't die from a bite you won't come back.:x I hated that.

I like the fact that Romeros bite victims take some time to get sick then die, unless of course they really get you like Steven in 78. I don't think he lived very long after the doors closed on the elevator. It just took some time for the Zeds to hit the button.:think:

[Darkness]

"Ummm....wrong topic guys. We do have a few threads, on that one, in the Zombie Talk Section though. It's just down the list a bit."

"Here's a few options for you..." ;-)
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15029
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15470
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14772
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14744
http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14082
"Just wander through and bump the one you like." :)




"Back to The Topic: The bite itself could possibly be a way of identifying what did the biting, man, beast or zombie." :think:

[DarthJoe8]

Sorry for going a stray a lil.

The bite is a dead give away. Personally as i've said before I think your a goner and its just a matter of time until you die and try to eat me. If possible, i guess i would quarantine a victim to make sure but I would take care of the person in a heartbeat if they turned.:drinking:

:think:I think other identifying properties of a Zed would be the open mouth, groaning, smell like :poo: blank stare, bumping into stuff, trying to eat me etc:lol:

EDIT: I think I'm confused as to what this thread is about. What do you mean by Identifying Zombies?

[Darkness]

I think other identifying properties of a Zed would be the open mouth, groaning, smell like :poo: blank stare, bumping into stuff, trying to eat me etc
"You've obviously never been standing outside a big bar at closing time." ;-) :lol:

EDIT: I think I'm confused as to what this thread is about. What do you mean by Identifying Zombies?
"Say you have a small or large group of 'survivors' wanting to A) Join your group. B) Come into your compound. C) Join your trek. (etc.) and you want to make sure they are uninfected. What are other ways you could check? (Aside from checking for bites because, for example, they may have just died of natural causes, and are freshly turned. Or are infected, but haven't died/returned yet.) Did that help answer your question?"

[Simply Pimpalicious]

I don't know how much basis it has in real life, but remember the part in
World War Z? What were the folks called that thought they were zombies, quislings, maybe? I'm really drawing a blank here, but the claim was that zombies don't blink. Sounds like a pretty tell-tale sign to me.

[Darkness]

*Pounces Simply Pimpalicious.* :hug:
"Hey there! Welcome to the conversation!" :)

I don't know how much basis it has in real life, but remember the part in
World War Z? What were the folks called that thought they were zombies, quislings, maybe? I'm really drawing a blank here, but the claim was that zombies don't blink. Sounds like a pretty tell-tale sign to me.
"Interesting point, I'll add that to my list of 'Things To Ponder'. Thanks!" :)

[Simply Pimpalicious]

Thanks for the pouncing. Was it good for you? ;)

Glad I could contribute.

Oh, and congrats on the modship!

[DarthJoe8]

"You've obviously never been standing outside a big bar at closing time." ;-) :lol:


"Say you have a small or large group of 'survivors' wanting to A) Join your group. B) Come into your compound. C) Join your trek. (etc.) and you want to make sure they are uninfected. What are other ways you could check? (Aside from checking for bites because, for example, they may have just died of natural causes, and are freshly turned. Or are infected, but haven't died/returned yet.) Did that help answer your question?"

This clears it up perfectly, thankyou.:) I would think that a freshly turned Zed would imediatly start to do the zombie thing. :scare:

[Darkness]

"Oh, and another thought. Although a bite is the most common way to get infected, it's not the ONLY way. If you get their blood in a cut, your mouth, etc. it could infect you as well. So there really is a need to be able to detect them in the early stages of zombification." :think:

[mattifikation]

I'm still not completely clear about whether we're talking about identifying full blown zombies, or still-living people who have been infected.

Does anyone know if the infrared scope would show organ activity (or lack of?)

As for infected but still living people, I think quarantine would be the only surefire way. Even blood tests wouldn't turn up positive if a person had just recently caught the virus.

[Darkness]

I'm still not completely clear about whether we're talking about identifying full blown zombies, or still-living people who have been infected.

"Actually I was thinking both. But the earlier they can be identified the safer we will be."

Does anyone know if the infrared scope would show organ activity (or lack of?)

As for infected but still living people, I think quarantine would be the only surefire way. Even blood tests wouldn't turn up positive if a person had just recently caught the virus.

"Maybe not infrared, but X-Rays came to mind when you posted that."

[Subgenius]

I have to agree with mattifikation about that quarantine idea for any and all new survivor arrivals to the group of survivors. I mean, it's the least technological of any of the solutions. It seems like the cheapest, fastest solution.

[Darkness]

I have to agree with mattifikation about that quarantine idea for any and all new survivor arrivals to the group of survivors. I mean, it's the least technological of any of the solutions. It seems like the cheapest, fastest solution.

"What do you do if you're on the move, and don't have the time, or place, to set up a quarantine?"

[mattifikation]

Then hey, you made it that far without them. Let 'em follow their own path. In situation Z, everyone is a liability until they prove themselves.

[Subgenius]

"What do you do if you're on the move, and don't have the time, or place, to set up a quarantine?"

That complicates things. It's like CJ, in Dawn of the Dead (2004), had said when he did not want to be a baby-sitter, "F-----g nursery school." And, he said, "I'll kill all of you to stay alive." So we could follow his lead on this and cut people loose. Actually, CJ never actually did anything that he said that he would do to survive. He totally became the baby-sitter. He totally did NOT kill everybody else to survive. Instead, he ended up sacrificing his own life so that the others could escape! Damn, now I'm confused, LOL.

[AN OLD SHOE]

That complicates things. It's like CJ, in Dawn of the Dead (2004), had said when he did not want to be a baby-sitter, "F-----g nursery school." And, he said, "I'll kill all of you to stay alive." So we could follow his lead on this and cut people loose. Actually, CJ never actually did anything that he said that he would do to survive. He totally became the baby-sitter. He totally did NOT kill everybody else to survive. Instead, he ended up sacrificing his own life so that the others could escape! Damn, now I'm confused, LOL.



yeah thats true haha

i think he was on the right mindset first off..and at the end of the movie he wasnt thinking right....

a medium of the 2 extremes would be nice i guess...but if i would have to choose i would kill everyone to stay alive...and i would quarantine everyone for a week before letting them become a citizen to my state

[Darkness]

"Theory Update: More data has come in and is presently being compiled. Will have an answer soon." :)

[Kokothewise]

Another thing to watch for is the demeanor of the person themselves. By this point I would assume every person that has survived would have seen someone get bit and change. They would put two and two together and the basic idea everyone would have is that if you get bit you change. So the second I was within talking range of a group I would just ask them in as friendly a tone as I could muster given the circumstances, "How are you guys doing." Not only does it give for a friendly opening, lessening the chances of a shoot-out or other hostilities, it forces them to speak, making it easier to spot the one in the back looking away and pulling their coat or arms tight around them. That's the one hiding a bite, they know it and they don't want you or anyone else to know it.

[Bob]

If there is not time for a quarantine then a close physical examination would be required. There could be wounds ragged enough to be difficult to tell from a bite but with the infection that is going to be running rampant they would not have much of a chance anyway.

I'm not sure how effective a verbal discourse is going to be in determining who might have been bitten, it will be a tool though. Just like the ones to determined to join you could be the ones who had been very recently bitten and want you to like them so you will take care of them.

[Dave Of The Dead]

How would I spot a zombie in an everyday ZPAW situation? I would stay at a safe distance and shine a flashlight or laser in the eyes of the person, whether it be a zombie or survivor, their reactions will tell you which one.

[mrlaughingman]

well if i picked up survivors and we were not traveling i would set up rooms to place each one in and monitor them to see if any change after a period of time if they havent changed i release them. how ever if were were on the move i split everyone into smaller groups say we found 4 surivors and we previously had a group of 8 split the group of 8 into 2 teams of four and have 2 of the surviors to each group. have the survivors walk ahead of them if they chane into zeds pop em in the head if not regroup after a period of time.

[mattifikation]

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12001831

Just reading that might generate some interesting theories.

[Simply Pimpalicious]

Hey all, sorry to dig up an old thread but I was talking to a friend a while back who happens to work with the deceased. I'm honestly not sure if he's a medical examiner, coroner, or what, but either way he could probably answer some questions about any actual physical changes a body goes through after it dies.

I sent him a link to this thread but I don't know if he'll actually register and post. If not, and anyone has any specific questions, post or PM them to me and I'll do my best to pass them along and reply with any answers.

[Krazymouse]

I'm probably gonna be inside my fort, which will have a jail cell. All found survivors are subject to be inside the cell for 24 hours. Then they are allowed to do whatever.

[the_velociraptor]

Early on in the outbreak, clothing, for sure. If we're doing a Romero-style outbreak, then gait, as well. Faster zombies may be a bit hard to ID, but depends on their actions (from what I've seen, they usually stumble about mindlessly - survivors would be actively seeking out something).

Survivors usually have weapons, too.

[kiltedninja]

I'd look at demeanor, someone who knows they're in danger will act differently than someone who is oblivious to the danger. In the beginning it would be different, but as time carries on, and everyone sees someone succumb, people will begin to see just what happens when they're bitten.

Another thing would be clothes, people with torn or raggedy clothes are more likely to have a bite, blood stains would also attract curiousity. People who are overly protective of certain members of their group should be detained until said person can be examined.

Now detainment is another issue, handcuffs are a fairly common thing, another thing that could be used is zipties, but only the extra long ones. Rope is fairly easy to escape from, but can still be used if tied properly. Keeping watch of that person would also be a good idea.

If it was me, I'd first politely introduce myself, and explain that in order to join up with us, each person must be subject to a thorough search. If they disagreed, I'd leave. If they disagreed with hostility, I'd persuade them to see things my way.

[DeAdLY SiNZz]

I'd use a few dogs and train them to sniff them out like in whatever movie that was they did it in. i'd have a walk through point to check for bites and any other possible symptons then they would move on to another area and stay there for an hour before going back to thier home or where they are living in the community