What is the best of these Weapons? (Opinion)

[Commander Ambrose]

What is the best?? I've been wondering what is the best anti-zombie weapon and I think you guys at the Forum's should decide.
:guns::zom2:
:machgun2::zom2:

[Faran Brigo]

M16 and AK47 would be both equally good, RPG absolutely and utterly sucks, and oh your god a calculator? rofl

Maybe if it was like one of those old mechanical business calculators, those look like thay can hurt.

[DarthJoe8]

Maybe a calculator would be a good idea.:think:How else are you going to keep track of how many zombies are surrounding your safe house.

[Faran Brigo]

...what is there a formula for that? You do a head count (no pun intended).

[falcon]

m16 and ak-47 both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Ak-47 is powerful enough to knock down a zombie due to its incredible kinetic energy, but is loosely constructed, so it is inaccurate by nature. M16a4 however, is extremely accurate, and can achieve easy headshots even at 200yards. However, the 5.56 is a weak round and therefore cannot knock down a zombie as easily as an AK-47.

Personally, I would go for the new ak-103, or the barret 468.

[Faran Brigo]

...Not only is the kinetic energy difference not that large, more importantly a headshot is an instant kill, as long as it's potent enough to destroy the brain, it's enough to down the zombie. The power difference just doesn't matter.

[falcon]

...Not only is the kinetic energy difference not that large, more importantly a headshot is an instant kill, as long as it's potent enough to destroy the brain, it's enough to down the zombie. The power difference just doesn't matter.

Hoever, a 5.56 cannot always be guarentted to knock down a zombie when there is a need to knok one down. Also, if you have poor aiming, then headshots can be difficult, and it would be better for you to just try and knock down the zombies and stay out of reach.

[Faran Brigo]

By simple laws of newtonian physics, it's extremely improbable to knock down an average sized man with a small arm with the force of the round alone regardless of caliber, that's just hollywood. You could stammer back a zombie with a fifty cal rifle, or a shotgun, or you could bring it down if you blow off his kneecaps, that's about it. If you have aim so poor that you can't get headshots with a carbine or rifle at close range, you're either better off with a melee weapon, or you're zombie chowder.

EDIT: Actually a .50 cal would probably bring a zed down, but I don't think a .50 sniper rifle or browning M2 machinegun are practical weapons, for plenty of reasons.

[detpat]

Small arms knockdown power is a total myth. no firearm will knock down a zombie or a live person. Sorry bit that's the unvarnished truth.

[falcon]

7.62 are enough to unbuckle your knees and knock you down.
My friend's uncle was a marine, and when he was shot by an ak-47, he said he was knocked down instantly.
He didn't fly, but was knocked off his feet.

[Faran Brigo]

That would be what most people call an urban myth. Even giving it the benefit of the doubt, IF it was true, marines wear body armor, and it probably had more to do with shock than actual kinetic energy. Again, laws of physics. You might as well have said he can fly a little, it's about as believable when you do the math. As for the KE difference:

7.62x39mm Soviet (AK-47 round) KE: 2,010 J (1495 ft.lbf)

5.56x45mm NATO (M16 round) KE: 1,775 J (1,309 ft·lbf)

A difference of less than 250 joules is NOT enough to make one round knock you down and another one not. You could have the entire USMC saying otherwise, when the leathernecks come up with a way to defy basic laws of physics they should invent antigravity devices instead of making tall tales. And I do respect the marines serving.

[detpat]

subjectively, it feels like it, but no knockdown, just a falldown. usually you get sympathetic response from your limbs and a temporary "flicker" of you central nervous system similar to what you get with a punch or concussion.

[Faran Brigo]

That's what I meant when I said "Shock", but you said it better.

[lolzombi3]

If you really want to kill a zombie, forget all those and just use the greatness of a shotgun :]

[detpat]

certainly you will have to use what you have, but a shotgun isn't the best weapon for zeds due to high recoil [not a problem for me because i love my shotties] bulky ammo and slow reloads. Not to mention low mag capacity. I would pick an ar15 variant. It's the most practical combination of features.

I hate to say such stuff because i love my shotguns, particularly my takedown 1897 and my saiga 12.

[Faran Brigo]

I still prefer the AK47. They're both good enough, but I'm lazy with the cleanup :lol:

I'd only cope with the cleaning if I had something nice to mount on the M16, like an acog, or an electronic red dot sight (assuming I could get my hands on a steady supply of batteries and/or charger as well).

[detpat]

I have a couple ak's and i love the shit oughta them. I would not feel worse off with them than my ar's, the ar's are just a little more ergonomic and efficient. Buy lots of ammo and mags. if you like AK's hit the akforum. lots of good guys and info there.

[falcon]

Shotguns are great for a backup. If you have lots of zeds left over and you have no more primary weapon rounds, shottys are the best.

[detpat]

they sure do beat the hell out of a pointy stick.

[eightyduce]

Shotguns are great for a backup. If you have lots of zeds left over and you have no more primary weapon rounds, shottys are the best.

I have a serious question about carrying the shotgun. You are saying to carry a shotgun as a secondary weapon backup to your primary if you run out of rounds. When you add up the weight of the shotgun and the ammunition, heavy shells, why not just carry MORE ammunition for the primary weapon? :think:

[Faran Brigo]

I got no idea, I always figured a good secondary is a pistol, something light with small ammo to use in case you ran out rounds for your primary or if jammed or don't have enough space to wield a long gun without bashing the barrel around things.

[detpat]

a common mistake of inexperienced folks is to carry too many weapons.

[AN OLD SHOE]

seriously im just gonna use 1 pistol....becuase im not gonna start fights or anything....i will use melee weapons on zombies...the gunwould just be used on actual people...to keep people from going crazy or trying to kill me or rob me or something....

[BelowTheMorgue]

i think the ak would be best cause once your outa ammo you can use it easilly as a club! Which is frankly more fun anyway, with the exception of CQC.

[detpat]

AK's are cool.

a pistol is what you use to fight your way to a rifle.

[falcon]

I have a serious question about carrying the shotgun. You are saying to carry a shotgun as a secondary weapon backup to your primary if you run out of rounds. When you add up the weight of the shotgun and the ammunition, heavy shells, why not just carry MORE ammunition for the primary weapon? :think:

Nah... shottys are not always that heavy.
You just need to get something like a sawed off.
Not bad, actually.

[detpat]

carry it along with ammo and all your shit on your back for 20 miles or so and you will change your mind. I guarantee it.

That sawed off will get you in deep shit if you aren't in a teotwawki too.

[Faran Brigo]

Well it's not too hard to have a standard double barrel and saw it off when the zeds start to rise, provided you have a vise, a hacksaw and a way to keep the ghouls off your back while you work for a bit.

Even so I still don't think a shotgun's a good backup weapon, ammo is heavy and bulky, sawed off shotguns have limited ammo capacity and full size pump actions have at best the same quantity of rounds as a classic colt .45, and nowdays you can have 9mm pistols with 13+1 rounds or higher (provided it's legal on your jurisdiction).

The only thing the shotgun's got going for it is the stopping power (and maybe the abundance of 12 gauge rounds), and that's not going to help you an awful lot against zombies, even if you stammer one back, it will recover quickly, maybe quicker than it would take you to reload, or hell, work a pump action. It'd definitely destroy the brain, but you can do that well with a decently powered pistol round, which is lighter and smaller.

[detpat]

as a found weapon shotties would be a blessing, as a planned weapon they are a losing proposition. Many folks think that shotguns are gonna throw an alley filling pattern and they are gonna destroy multiple zeds with them. Not true, the pattern a shotgun throws is not anywhere as wide as people think and it's not as powerful as they think either.

at most zed ranges it is only gonna throw a pattern not much larger than the barrel itself. the shot load doesn't begin to spread until you get a little further out. Home saw jobs on most guns are just gonna ruin them and not give you any real advantage.

[Fierce_Track]

In my opinion I think the AK-47 would be most effective out of the given choices. Even though in the Zombie Survival Guide it is stated that machine guns are too innacurate for an immediate headshot. We are talking about best weapons to kill a zombie... Right? OH! By the way, I'm back... Again.

[stonyman65]

As much as I love the AR, it takes to damn long to maintain. You need a two week class on how to clean and use it - the AK-47, two hours. It also fires a bigger round. Not to mention its way more durable.

[eightyduce]

It seems to me the AR weapon would be a little better than the AKs. Reasoning:
1. All you want to do is shoot the zombie in the head. AR will work for this.
2. AR ammunition is lighter. The lighter the ammunition the more you can carry.
3. The “Current” models of ARs are as reliable as AKs.
4. The recoil of the AR is lighter than the AKs and makes it easier for new shooters to engage a target.
5. ARs have 100 round magazines “Beta C magazine”. AKs have High Cap too but they are much heavier and not as reliable.
6. ARs have more accessory items to trick up the system.
7. ARs clean easier than most people think.

[Faran Brigo]

I think the AK-47 would be most effective out of the given choices. Even though in the Zombie Survival Guide it is stated that machine guns are too innacurate for an immediate headshot.

uhhh... Welcome back?

AK47, M16, FN-FAL, G3 = Assault rifles

M60, RPK, FN Minimi, M249 SAW = Machine guns

detpat: How would sawing off a shotgun ruin it? the only advantage a sawn off's supposed to have it be shorter so you don't bash it around things and can conceal it better, so how dumb would you have to be to cut it in a way that it's actually bigger?

I can see that it would probably reduce the accuracy and affect the pattern and size of the shot, but at shotgun ranges, is that really an issue?

[stonyman65]

If you have ever actually shot a AR15 or AK47, you will know that recoil isn't realy such a big thing, infact, its barely noticable. Weight isn't really an issue either, the AK only weighs in at about 1.5 pounds heavier than the standard AR15. with all thwe gear you would already have on, I don't thing the 1.5 pounds would make a difference.

the only thing that is an accurate claim is the ammo, you can carry more .223 than .308s, but there are AKs chambered in .223. That would be ideal. AR bolts are also porne to breakage after heavy use.

The AR would be a good choise, im not against it, but in the long run, the AK will work much better.

[AN OLD SHOE]

there is a reason why most countries use the AK.....and it is the most widely used and manufactured gun...

the vietnamese wouldnt even touch the american guns..they kept to the ak...good choice...

[stonyman65]

A shotgun would be good too. The only concern I have with using one are those long range shots that only a rifle can make... but I geuss for stuff over the standard 3-7 yards, I could use my pistol (1 inch grouping at 25 yards) to hit the target.

I need to get more time in on the range...:roll:

[eightyduce]

Are you knutz? An AR is treasured around the world! ARs are preferred weapons, their draw back is cost, NOT quality! Even “Mack Bolan” knows there is NO AK chambered in .223 cal. BOLTS are prone to breakage? Where do you come up with the :poo: Can you site a WEB page? My 1 – 7 post are accurate, I know I own both ARs & AKs!

The reasons most countries use AKs over ARs is the cost, not reliability!

[Faran Brigo]

Most of that is true, except for two details, there are AK's in 5.56 NATO, specifically the AK-101, google it.

The other is the M16 is not treasured around the world, there's tons of better assault rifles, just much more expensive than an AR-15 derivate. Most of those come from Germany, Israel, South Africa and Belgium. The M16 was widely adopted mostly out of pressure for standarization by NATO members.

The main problem with the M16 is in the 5.56 round, not the weapon itself though, and that's irrelevant because it's certainly enough to pop a zed head, and that's all we want here. Nothing else will stop a zombie.

[Darkness]

"Now, now, children. It is possible to have a debate without the name calling. Don't make me get out my tranquillizer gun." :evil: :lol:

[detpat]

there certainly ARE ak's in 5.56mm, I've owned them. I own and love both ak's and ar's, the ar's are more common and parts/supplies are more common. I would pick my ar's because they are just more ergonomic and accurate. Hell get a piston ar and you are right up there with ak's in reliability and durability.

My saiga 12 shotgun on the other hand is a different matter. If i need a shottie for fighting it's the one. Rifles are just all around more useful fighting weapons though.

Faran, many sawed offs i have seen/confiscated were crude and did in fact effect the pattern and often the safety of the gun. you don't want any burrs or imperfections in your shottie barrel, trust me.

[Faran Brigo]

hmm... yeah youre probably right. Goes to show you that gunsmithing's not going to be a luxury anymore in a world overrun by the undead.

[eightyduce]

A common misconception is that the AK-101 has entered service as the main assault rifle of the Russian Federation, but this is not true; the AK-74M is still the main assault rifle, the AK-103, a variant of the AK-101 firing 7.62 mm Soviet rounds, is in limited service with selected units in the Russian army, and the AN-94 is entering limited service in the elite forces of the Russian military, some Russian police forces, and the Internal Ministry of Affairs.

[detpat]

an AK can be made more accurate, not as accurate as an AR platform, but certainly more accurate than a stock commie boom stick. Usually you need to stick with a milled receiver as the stamped ones flex too much during the firing cycle. You should see one on high speed film, it flexes way off true.

Many of the problems you experience in both platforms is related to full auto performance. the M4 overheats due to a gas system designed too short, and the Ak's flexing and being difficult to control. Usually you aren't gonna need the giggleswitch anyway.

That said, plenty of full auto's are plenty accurate, the esteemed author of the survival guide notwithstanding. A controllable weapon designed for volume fire would probably be a potentially useful weapon. Grazing fire at roughly shoulder level would be effective to clear a large group of zeds or at least thin them out to manageable numbers.

[Faran Brigo]

That's completely irrelevant. You said there weren't any AK's in 5.56 and there are, that's it, end of story. The AK101 and AK102 (slightly scaled up AKS74U) are export weapons, so that means you CAN get your hands on one, sans full auto mode.

The original AK47's were milled, not stamped. Guess they should have kept milling them.

I've never fired an assault rifle in auto, is the recoil really controllable enough for you to spray a crowd of zombies at head height? wouldn't it be better to just fire in semi auto as fast as you can?

[detpat]

most popular AK's are manufactured in 5.56mm/.223 I've had SAR3's and the Arsenal and saiga rifles are also offered in this caliber. the weiger replicas are even in the 556 flavor.

[EliteDragonX]

I agree with detpat, the shotgun is essentially a Home-Defense weapon,
or is used to keep back Zombies somewhat at close range.

The AK47 is better than the M16, considering the flimsy nature of the M16,
it cannot be used as a melee weapon, and it lacks the punch to TOTALLY ensure the penetration of the human skull, BUT, the M16's ammo is lighter, and has rail mounts for scopes, lights, etc.

The AK47 wins by a slight advantage in my opinion.

The ultimate anti Zombie killing weapon is the SIR (standard infantry rifle)
from World War Z, see my post in the 'Gear' topic for details.

[detpat]

I've used an M16 as a melee weapon and the weapon came through it just fine. I've also seen plenty of battle damaged ak's with broken stocks and broken or burnt hand guards. The real difference, and deciding factor in this debate is which you like. either will work just fine.

the 5.56mm round will reliably penetrate the skull, i have never seen anyone shot with one in the head not penetrate. You do your part and hit the zed in the head and he is gonna cease action.

[mattifikation]

I went with the AK for my vote, but the reality is I think it's a tie between that an the M16.

With the AK, you have reliability and very little maintenance time. On the other hand, if something does break, you'll probably have to check a few houses to find a replacement part.

With the M16, you have to spend a bit more time taking care of it to keep it running. However, in a zed outbreak the military and law enforcement will probably have them out on the streets in droves, making replacement parts an easy find.

With the AK, you have slightly more powerful ammunition. With the M16, you have significantly more available ammunition.

With the AK, you're more likely to get a bullet to come out of the gun. With the M16, you're more likely to get that bullet to hit something.

All that being said, if hundreds of dead people are ever trying to eat me, I'll take a good pair of running shoes over any gun.

[detpat]

being a huge gun guy and vet of several things, skilled with many weapons and other things.........but I'd have to go with the shoes too!

the thing about which guns to go with is really simple when you are pat everything else.........you need to have one and know how to use it, have ammo and parts for it, be familiar with it and, oh yeah did i mention the important thing.......know how to use it.

Go with what you have and are familiar with. the bet whizbang gear in the universe is useless if you can't operate it. Think about how you'd feel if you were standing next to a chopper and waiting for the zeds to notice you, thinking to yourself 'gee i wish i knew how to fly this thing" Guns can be the same way, except that more people think that they can use them for some reason, even though they can't.

Even with people who do know how to shoot coolness under stress is even more important. I have personally seen well trained soldiers who i KNEW could shoot well, unable to hit shit when stressed. so remember, be cool.

[Darkness]

"I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to guns, but I know quite a few better from sight. Any possibility of seeing pictures of the choices, so I can make a better informed decision?"

[detpat]

The AR is on the left and the AK is on the right, hope this helps you out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/harrybeck/AR15vsAK47-002.jpg

[vortec1]

Well I've seen and carried both m/ar and ak but both rounds are over powered for most ZED senerios that I have watched. 9mm in a rifle/pistol combo would be a good choice. I have such a combo (ask)!

[Z-Day is very soon]

The AR is on the left and the AK is on the right, hope this helps you out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/harrybeck/AR15vsAK47-002.jpg

depends on if the ak is russian made (Izhevsk Mechanical Works) or some cheap rip off?

[detpat]

I've handled and shot all the commercially available copies as well as original Russian models. They were all pretty similar as to practical usage. My converted saiga is one of my favorites. I also have an sar 1 with some mods and it's great too.

It really does fall to the level of preference, shoot what you want, what your comfortable with. Particularly what you happen to have.

I have a g22 and kt sub 2000 combo and love it, but you need to remember it's limitations as a platform. pistol caliber weapons are underpowered and short ranged.

[Z-Day is very soon]

I've handled and shot all the commercially available copies as well as original Russian models. They were all pretty similar as to practical usage. My converted saiga is one of my favorites. I also have an sar 1 with some mods and it's great too.

It really does fall to the level of preference, shoot what you want, what your comfortable with. Particularly what you happen to have.

I have a g22 and kt sub 2000 combo and love it, but you need to remember it's limitations as a platform. pistol caliber weapons are underpowered and short ranged.

i dont really trust the the other makers except Izhevsk Mechanical Works and Zastava Of Kragujevac

[detpat]

even the WASR functions well, it's just a poorly finished arm. Arsenal's products are generally of better quality anyway..

[UNDEAD FRED]

I would pick the M-16. A AK-47 is nice, but I would think that Ammo for an M-16 Rifle would be a lot easier to find. Abandoned equipment from military units out on the streets that have been overran by the undead might be a great sorce of ammo resupply. Allso after the soldiers return as zombies, they might have your ammo supplies in thier amnmo pouches after you dispatch them. Plus being ex-military the M-16 just feels right in my hand. A 5.56 round will easily destroy a zombies brain. Knock down power is nice, but your not aiming for center mass.

[AN OLD SHOE]

some ak's take 5.56...so maybe ammo wont be a problem with the ak either...

[Dark Comic]

I would find the calculator more entertaining, you can't turn an RPG upside down and use it to spell boobies :lol:

[vortec1]

I would pick the M-16. A AK-47 is nice, but I would think that Ammo for an M-16 Rifle would be a lot easier to find. Abandoned equipment from military units out on the streets that have been overran by the undead might be a great sorce of ammo resupply. Allso after the soldiers return as zombies, they might have your ammo supplies in thier amnmo pouches after you dispatch them. Plus being ex-military the M-16 just feels right in my hand. A 5.56 round will easily destroy a zombies brain. Knock down power is nice, but your not aiming for center mass.

That is the words right out of my mouth. FRED, I agree.

[Devilspaintbrush]

I had to choose the ak

I own 4 of them, so they are pretty much my "goto" weapon

I do intend on making me an ak pistol one of thesedays



i do agree with the theory that the ar15 would be far easier to feed..cant argue there at all

[detpat]

AK's are cool, i know that i come off as being all over the place on this one but i guess i am. I would be perfectly comfortable with either on or almost any modern fighting rifle, hell even many not so modern guns would work for me. My Springfield 03 [not a3] would be good. I think bayonets would be a good addition to a zed rifle too, you just never know when one might want to dance during a reload.

[Seway]

IMHO the best weapon is AK-47, especially in locations like eastern europe because the ammo is commonly distributed and the rifle itself is a very common firearm. I used to live in Poland and with a licence you were able to buy a AK-47 or a similar gun for a relatively low price. The most popular one was a semi-auto 7.62 firing civillian version. The situation might have changed though... i am not completely sure.

[Eknytz]

M16A2 since its accurate and its probably the weapon on the list that your most likely to get sense its available in most police and military armories in the USA.
In addition to that its ammunition would probably the most easy to acquire.

[slipklok]

I'd have to say hatchet if you are just talking about close combat weapons. Its strong and has other important uses.

[Augustus Desius]

I would use an AK-47. It simply can take more abuse, and fire reliably in worse conditions. I need that level of assurance on the field.

[mil-collector]

voted M-16 / AR-15.
I have yet to own an AK that is as accurate as the typical run of the mill AR, even the vaunted Arsenal SA-m7 series.... (assuming that headshots are necessary, it also has the least recoil, and is thusly faster on the follow-up shot for mass attacks).
RPG? useless, and try carrying more than a handful of reloads.... calculator? slightly more useless, but it may have pointy edges :) .

[detpat]

maybe an rpd instead of the rpg?

[mil-collector]

good to see you again :)
i can't see any situation where an RPG would be useful against zombies, other than for entertainment firing from the rooftop into a swarm.

[detpat]

never discount a cool party game as a stress reducer. Think of spelling you name in the zeds sort of like spelling your name in the snow.

[zombiekilling101]

I voted ak-47 becasue you cant get them alot easier. And if you have the legal sks version you can modify that to full auto (dont ask me how though:scare:). Plus 7.62 x 54 ammo is everywhere!. And you dont have to worry about 7.62 having the bigger punch of the 5.56 cause all you need to do is shoot them in the head (.22 would be the best weapon due to low recoil but thats another thread:)) Ive been brought up with guns. love em!:evil:

[detpat]

AK's are 7.62x39.......notx54. That's the old mosin nagant round. The SKS isn't a variation of the AK but a totally separate rifle design and wasn't offered in a full auto version originally. I have examined and shot some SKS conversions and they were not controllable and horribly inaccurate. Not to mention usually unsafe.

Most AK conversions aren't safe either. legality isn't an issue here due to the Post apocalyptic nature of our speculation so i won't address that part of the question. They aren't hard, but they do need some expertise to make safe and functional. Commercial AK receivers are HARD and not identical to the military versions. I have some experience in working with AK's as a hobbyist, mostly converting sporterized guns to original [mostly] historical configurations. Saiga's are great for this if you want an original Russian manufactured piece.

They will destroy non pro grade tools right now. Hiding in your basement from the zeds and converting your Semi auto AK into an auto isn't really as practical and easy as many think. Full auto's aren't even necessary for this scenario as you are gonna want to preserve as much ammo as possible and not just waste it.

Remember, in a ZPAW only hits count! The whole concept of suppressive fire for zeds is a non starter.

[veppman]

but i don't know if any of u have heard of this but there is a shotgun out there in design for the us military that is a fully automatic shotgun that is magazine feed

[detpat]

yep, nothing new there. my saiga s12 is semi and mag fed. the original model is an auto [select fire]

[zombieuprising]

i can't see any situation where an RPG would be useful against zombies, other than for entertainment firing from the rooftop into a swarm.
unless you fired it into something hilghly inflamable like a gas tanker or soemthing


shotgun for fun, ak47 for busniess.

[veppman]

the shotgun i am talking about was shown on an episode of futureweapons it was called the aa 12 fully automatic shotgun

[fester_hicks]

the best weapon would be a clear head and a cool trigger finger

[drtongue]

m4, 12 gauge, my nine on the side

[Darkness]

"Let's keep the discussion in here to the four weapons in the poll please. If there are other weapons you wish to talk about please consult the Index Thread for the proper topic. Thank you." :naughty:

[vortec1]

Held to ak or ar15 in a thight hall ak would win for surspression fire.

[detpat]

why? please explain.

[fester_hicks]

AK-47...its what the majority of bandits will be using so ammo will be easier to find in the long run. Good knockdown 7.62 POWER. A lovely bayonet.

[mattifikation]

But all the cops, soldiers, and private security contractors will be using m16's or ar15's. As for bandits... do you think they're going to have some convention right after Z-Day and unanimously decide they should all carry AK-47's? Maybe they'll have some sort of sponsorship thing going on for AK-47 companies? Hardly. They're gonna use whatever's available just like everyone else, and that's probably going to be the ar15. Dinky bullet or not.

[surviveordie]

im giong with the ak-47 in a 5.56 cal, also know as an sar3 i love this gun ive shot, the m16, an sas, and several ak's. and keep coming back to this light reliable version of the a.r. the sar3 is definitely my "come to papa" fire stick. it has the low kick of the m16 because of the 223 round and simplicity and reliability of the ak. the only downside is the accuracy of the ak, but if you throw on a red dot or a low power scope and you are ready to rip it up. why not the m16 simple they are heavy, and have a tendency to jam if not cleaned regularly, as for the rpg, not a close range weapon, you have a great chance of taking yourself out along with the legions of the undead. and the calculator would be my first choice if the zombie was intelligent enough to read, i would spell boobs and it and hand it over, so while the zombie giggled at the childish joke i could make a swift get away.

[DBCooper]

I picked the “American M-16” as the ammunition is more readily available in the U.S., It is a more accurate rifle or carbine and the weight to destruction ration is better than the 7.62x39. This is why the new AK-74 was brought on line in the smaller caliber.

[Lian]

Well of the given weapons I'm gonna go with an AK-47. Mikhail Kalashnikov knew what he was doing when he made the damn thing, it's a beast, 9 out of 10 third world countries agree if your gonna kill someone do it with this thing. It's accurate enough for most applications, it easily breaks down into just two pieces for easy cleaning. The nice wide receiver makes it so that it's less likely to jam than an M-16. 7.62 rounds are common enough and when you drop something with a round this caliber your gonna know you did it. And the most important part is they are perfectly suited for Guerrilla warfare as these things can be used and abused.

There's a reason this weapon is responsible for the most human deaths of any weapon ever made in history...period.

[Longrifle]

I was under the impression that Muzzle Loading weapons have killed more people than any other gun.

The reason so many other countries use the AK is because of the price. Even in today’s market an AK can be made for under $100.00 (US) and in the day when communism and USSR were threatening the world, countries would give the weapon away like candy.

The AK is a fine weapon and when Mikhail copied the design of the German MP-44 Sturmgewehr Assault Rifle he did a nice job improving it.

Quantity does not equal Quality, the AK is a fine weapon.

[Lian]

I was under the impression that Muzzle Loading weapons have killed more people than any other gun.

Sure Muzzle loades may have been around for longer than the AK but the AK has been the tool of more than one genocide in Africa.


The reason so many other countries use the AK is because of the price. Even in today’s market an AK can be made for under $100.00 (US) and in the day when communism and USSR were threatening the world, countries would give the weapon away like candy.

True it can be made on the cheap, and it is common as hell. Both selling points on it's popularity but it's still a weapon of extreme ease of use and durability. An AK will work in cold, wet and muddy conditions where most other rifles will require a full field strip and clean.


The AK is a fine weapon and when Mikhail copied the design of the German MP-44 Sturmgewehr Assault Rifle he did a nice job improving it.

Also had some roots in the Carbine style of the M1 didn't it?

Quantity does not equal Quality, the AK is a fine weapon.

Don't really understand this comment. But on that note only given options of this thread I'd go for the AK. If I had myself a more rounded choice of options though...I wouldn't pick any of these. The AK while a nice weapon and easily filling the niche it was deigned for it has a few design flaws that I'd rather avoid, mainly in the accuracy issues and they do have an occasional tendency to misfire and hurt their users.

[detpat]

Poorly maintained ak's do malfunction. the stg wasn't based on the m-1 carbine in any way. I'm personally partial to the piston driven ar's myself, they have the best parts of both worlds.

[Lian]

No your right the AK wasn't influenced by the M1 I was thinking of one of Mikhail's early weapon designs of a carbine that got beat out by the SKS, for some damn reason. Just had a wire crossed in my head, and I looked it up after I thought about it for a second. I need to quit posting when I'm intoxicated. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Lian686/smiley_joint.gif

[detpat]

it's all good. hell, the French and Russians both fielded semi auto infantry rifles in the first world war.

[DevilsRain]

The M-16 is way cuter.

[13hollowpoints]

Well of the given weapons I'm gonna go with an AK-47. Mikhail Kalashnikov knew what he was doing when he made the damn thing, it's a beast, 9 out of 10 third world countries agree if your gonna kill someone do it with this thing.

9 out of 10 third world countries also use rocks as their main weapon, does that mean it's the best? I like bottles filled with sand personally.

Some manufacturers (Bushmaster for one) are chambering AR-15's for the .45 cal. That would make ammo an easy find. Not sure how it's shelled ACP or Colt or what. AK's fell too clunky for my taste. I've always loved the good 'ol USA M-16's and AR-15's. So many modern assualt rifles are looking good nowadays.

[VXTip556]

i would chose the AK for its renowned reliablity, although i own an AK and so far have not gotten it to be up to the mythical standards of functionality so i might as well go for an AR15 instead, gas piston version preferably, AR's are more visually appealing, but a tacked out AK looks pretty sexy as well, but in a zombie apocalypse beggers can't be choosers...or can they!

[Hitman]

I've never fired an assault rifle in auto, is the recoil really controllable enough for you to spray a crowd of zombies at head height? wouldn't it be better to just fire in semi auto as fast as you can?

with enough practice most folks should be able to hold a mag dump in a line at head level out to around 50 or so yards (the chineese are good at this) . the power of the round (and bullet weight does come into play) just determines how easy it will be. with my M16 I can do it , my MP5 is no problem . the couple of 7.62 full auto AK's I've shot would be very hard to nearly impossibe (FAL's M14's and G3's are almost a joke on FA ,but they are fun) to do croud head shots with. good thig they have selector switches , rapid well aimed single shots usually give you more hits per rounds fired.

that being said if you were doing some kind of movements (house clearing , search and destroy ,etc) that involved CQB work and rounded a corner and came face to face with a group of 20 or so zeds I'd want full auto. I've done some straifing on targets at the range in the 5-15 yards area. its bruitaly effective esp with the MP5 or a FA .22lr mg. this is the kind of thing that could get you eaten if you have a shotty or a hunting gun.

[Mrgibins]

it's all about shotguns for me, an automatic 12 gauge whould be nice, I can take out any zombie with that!

[detpat]

hitman's got it right, if you have some training the giggle switch is gonna be useful in some circumstances. It's like your disaster preps, you aren't gonna use it all the time, but when you do need it you really need it.

training and experience are really the key here. the lighter calibers that were developed for the modern assault rifle were a result of evolutionary experience with similar rifles in the older full power rifle rounds. hard to control and not really necessary. it MUCH longer to train troops to utilize these more powerful weapons to their full potential. Many troops just weren't capable of doing it.

This is also why you usually assign more experienced people as machinegunners , also typically larger people. They are able to make best use of these support weapons. In some army's like the German army of WWII, the machinegun was the center of the squad. the infantrymen were really a security team for the machinegun. in the us army the BAR [our version of a light machinegun] was used to support the maneuver of the infantrymen.

the point of all this wind was simply that full auto's are useful but not necessary for the particular application we have in mind for a zombie scenario. precision and sustainability are much more important than volume fire. Zeds can't be managed with suppressive fire and only head shots count, so you have to seriously modify your tactics.

this is why shotguns aren't ideal for the zpaw scenario, bulky, heavy ammunition, slow rate of fire, lack of precision, slow reloads. all of these factors combine to make the weapon a non starter, if, that is, you have a choice. I have always said that you need to work with the tools you have and maximize their potential. If you have a .22 single shot rifle, then you need to carefully think out your tactics and reprogram your responses to possible situations. you need to think farther ahead and plan careful exit strategies to every move you make.

[Cortexx]

Out of those I would take the M16 BUT if I had a choice I would go for a AR-15 and a Glock 19 suince its a .9mm you dont want anything thats going to slow you down I would NOT take a shotgun (well I would if that was the only firearm there.

[detpat]

you do know that the m16 and ar15 are different versions of the same rifle, right? one is a semi and one is an assault rifle.

[jagus12]

I think that I wqould get an AK or an M16...
Or also a calculator! With what other weapon u can spell boobies!!!!

[Hoot]

Ar 15 all the way ok so an AK fires a bigger round and thats great but what difference does it makes if the only shot that counts is one to the head

[bandits1]

Ar 15 all the way ok so an AK fires a bigger round and thats great but what difference does it makes if the only shot that counts is one to the head
Yup, plus ammo and spare parts would be far more plentiful in the U.S. than it is for the AK.

This fact alone should make the decision crystal clear.

[jim96sc2]

you do know that the m16 and ar15 are different versions of the same rifle, right? one is a semi and one is a select fire rifle.

Fixed... stop listening to politicians and the news!

[torancefzk]

i freaking calculator with explosives attached to it?

anyone?

[detpat]

the select fire feature is what defines one as an AR15, or semi auto rifle and one As an M16, or Assault rifle. there is no such thing as a semiautomatic assault rifle.

By definition select fire is an assault rifle and semi isn't [no matter what a liberal idiot says], so nothing needed to be adjusted thank you.

[jim96sc2]

the select fire feature is what defines one as an AR15, or semi auto rifle and one As an M16, or Assault rifle. there is no such thing as a semiautomatic assault rifle.

By definition select fire is an assault rifle and semi isn't [no matter what a liberal idiot says], so nothing needed to be adjusted thank you.

According to the feds:

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Conspicuous pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device which enables the launching or firing of rifle grenades)

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or silencer
Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine

So realistically it has nothing to do with select fire and everything to do with "looking scary".

[detpat]

That's exactly why that law was so flawed, it didn't ban any assault weapons, but just weapons that scared democrats. The definition was "defined" if you will just after WWII to describe a new class of firearms. That legal definition was incorrect and arbitrary.

to describe a cow and then label that description as "airplane" doesn't make it an airplane. It' still a cow and so assault rifles are still what they are and semiautomatic rifles, handguns, and shotguns are still what they are.

If you want to discuss firearms with gun folks you need to be as precise as possible and not use such bogus and politically motivated victim culture sob sister verbiage.:puke:

[Hitman]

OK to get back on topic .

which would you prefer , these are a derivatve of the main poll

#1 10.5" barreled M4
#2 7.62 M92 yugo "krink"
#2 5.45 AKSU "krink"


I currently have a 11.5" M16 and I'm having a 7.62 M92 built . the .223 out of a barrel this short really loses steam fast (and starts out to slow to much anyway) . the 7.62 has the bigger heavier bullet and is a more rugged design . I'm not that familiar with the 5.54 but I've heard that it works well from a short barrel.

[detpat]

I'd go with the yugo, they have a heavier barrel than many other ak's and i also like the styling of the furniture. I have heard that the 5.45 has some lethality problems but don't have enough experience with the round to be able to say.

On the other hand that round is still cheaper than the alternatives.

[Darkness]

"I understand that those may be 'a derivatve of the main poll', but they aren't the ones in the poll, and I'd rather not tempt folks to go off topic. So please stick to the weapons in the poll. Thank you."

[Hitman]

"I understand that those may be 'a derivatve of the main poll', but they aren't the ones in the poll, and I'd rather not tempt folks to go off topic. So please stick to the weapons in the poll. Thank you."



darkness the 3 guns I listed are just shorter versions of the top two in the original poll .
here is a regular AK 47

http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/magyar.gif

here is a good pic of the M92 YUGO .
http://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/images/vojni/7_62/1.jpg


and here is an AKSU

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7681/ermbi74urk011ry3.jpg

if you want me to start another thread I can.

[detpat]

they are just compact versions. i think i'll start a krink thread anyway.:evil:

[Umbrela]

The fact that the AK-47 has been widely used around the world for the last 60 years should testify to is ability. Surprisingly, they're also fairly easy to find. At least where I live, anyway.

[Z-Day is very soon]

darkness the 3 guns I listed are just shorter versions of the top two in the original poll .
here is a regular AK 47

http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/magyar.gif

here is a good pic of the M92 YUGO .
http://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/images/vojni/7_62/1.jpg


and here is an AKSU

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7681/ermbi74urk011ry3.jpg

if you want me to start another thread I can.





oh yeah ill take the "yugo" Zastava from my good ol country serbia

[Z-Day is very soon]

http://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/images/vojni/m21/13.jpg
But I'd Rather Take the 5.56mm M21S with grenade launcher but pretty much the only difference is the attachable grenade launcher and the yugo m92 is 7.76

[martenbroadcloak]

m16 and ak-47 both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Ak-47 is powerful enough to knock down a zombie due to its incredible kinetic energy, but is loosely constructed, so it is inaccurate by nature. M16a4 however, is extremely accurate, and can achieve easy headshots even at 200yards. However, the 5.56 is a weak round and therefore cannot knock down a zombie as easily as an AK-47.

Personally, I would go for the new ak-103, or the barret 468.


I disagree, the AK-47 is a hell of a rifle, that's why it's so popular the world over, it's got a good rate of fire, it's fairly accurate as far as automatic machine guns go and almost never malfunctions, rarely do they jam or misfire becuase their designs are so simplistic. and they're cheap if you want to stock up beforehand.

[Z-Day is very soon]

arent (atleast i considered them) ak-47 are considered more of submachine than a rifle because of the selective fire and large magazines?

[detpat]

no.

A real AK47 [and not one of the semiauto versions] is a true assault rifle. just like an M16 or SA80, etc

Even in a military combat situation you should use semi auto fire 90% of the time. In a zed situation you would still do that. full auto fire has very limited utility. When i was a soldier we referred to the fullauto setting on our rifles as the "adverse" setting, referring to the sort of conditions that would necessitate it's use.

Neither AK's nor AR's are gonna knockdown a zed or a live person for that matter by kinetic energy. that's just not the way it works, physics 101.

[JakAttak]

well with many things depends on what your doing and you're terrain if it's dirty boggy and otherwise adverse towards guns go with an AK because that old bastard wont let ya down when it gets dirty. an M16 is more accurate but not as tough, rocket launcher when Z's start driving tanks let me know. A calculator... really.

[detpat]

It's not so much the conditions but the degree of support and maintenance you may be able to give a weapon.

I've seen AK's maintained so poorly that they malfunctioned, a few even catastrophically. admittedly these were central American peasants, but still. ANT weapon will malfunction if you neglect it. the AK may take longer. Just depends on many factors.

You need to clean them, the perceived advantage is the length of time between maintenance sessions and the degree of maintenance. If you buy a weapon for emergency use you need to buy a good maintenance kit with it. the little trap door covered hole in the AK stock is to contain a cleaning kit.

NO it's not a cute little monkey trap to entertain you as you hide out in a sewer.

[JakAttak]

yea I'm just sayin' an AK's a helluva lot tougher

[bandits1]

How about the M4/M16 variant: the HK 416?
"The HK416 uses a proprietary gas system derived from the HK G36, replacing the direct impingement gas system used by the standard M16/M4. The HK system uses a short-stroke piston driving an operating rod to force the bolt carrier to retract. This design prevents propellant gases from entering the weapon’s interior, a traditional short-coming with direct gas impingement systems. The reduction in heat and fouling of the bolt carrier group increases the reliability of the weapon and extends the interval between stoppages. It also reduces operator cleaning time, and stress on critical components."
...problem solved. You get better reliability with less cleaning requirements, while maintaining the accuracy of the M4/M16. If you want to fire the larger 7.62 caliber: the HK417.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1101/hk41610inchleftde2.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_HK416
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_HK417

[Dave Of The Dead]

AK47 may be a bit heavier, but remember that you cannot use an M16's rifle stock to knock down a Zed or anything for that matter. Its spring loaded and made of friggin' plastic. Meanwhile, the AK47 has a hard wood stock, which can come in handy in close quarter situations. The AK47 rarely jams, and if it does, it is usually a "Stove Pipe" jam, a jam where the expended shell gets caught. You can just knock the shell out and keep going with. The M16 is a complicated piece of machinery and will also overheat the chamber if fired too often, which may result in a spontaneous shot going off.
All in all, the AK47 has stood the test of time. It is still being used while our military is still trying to make the M16 less shi*tty.

[Hitman]

AK47 may be a bit heavier, but remember that you cannot use an M16's rifle stock to knock down a Zed or anything for that matter. Its spring loaded and made of friggin' plastic. Meanwhile, the AK47 has a hard wood stock, which can come in handy in close quarter situations. The AK47 rarely jams, and if it does, it is usually a "Stove Pipe" jam, a jam where the expended shell gets caught. You can just knock the shell out and keep going with. The M16 is a complicated piece of machinery and will also overheat the chamber if fired too often, which may result in a spontaneous shot going off.
All in all, the AK47 has stood the test of time. It is still being used while our military is still trying to make the M16 less shi*tty.

what about when the end of the shell rips off and leaves it stuck in your AK chamber? the next shell makes sure its stuck like its part of the barrel. I've also had a shell reverse and lodge in the chamber backwards . loads of fun getting that out in a hurry .

as for the M16 "cooking off a round" , the AK will do it just as easily. both fire from closed bolts and neither one is designed as a SAW type weapon. also I've done mag dumps back to back and have gotten the handgaurds so hot on my M16 that you couldn't hold them and I've yet too cook a round off. its blown way out of proportion . your more likely to burst the gas tube first ,something I've still never managed to do.

the H&K 416 (good luck finding one ) is almost a soulution looking for a problem . yea the DI system is not the best but under most circumstances the M16 will go 2000 rounds (not all at once) between cleanings with decent ammo. I don't know about you but thats alot of rounds from one gun. if you need more than that in one day , you need a beltfed. I get 1500+ from my M16 with a can firing wolf ammo , and when it starts to hickup a few quick passes with a chamber brush and some clp gets it back in the game till I can give it more attention.

as for the stock , let me hit you in the head with my stock ( 4pos ) like I shoot it then if your still standing you can hit me with your AK stock. on second thought its a gun not a club. besides it'd work better if I used either the bayonnete or the big SS can on the end of the stuby HB. that also happens to be the way I remove a stuck case from the chamber. I grab the charging handle and bang the stock against a solid surface.

[mattifikation]

Actually there have been several changes made to the design of the AK-47, trying to make it "less sh*tty" as well.

Do some research into the AK-74, AK-101, AK-103, AK-104, AK-107, and AK-108.

[Dave Of The Dead]

Okay, I surrender. The more experienced beats the book smart.:lol:

[JakAttak]

however the AK is less accurate but thats the only major drawback

[Hitman]

however the AK is less accurate but thats the only major drawback

how about the bad ergonomics? crappy sights , limited means for mounting optics , ammo and mags that weigh twice as much. also they suck for suppresors due to the way their gas system self regulates.

[JakAttak]

trust me you don't want a suppressor on your AK it's already kind inaccurate. and as for mounted optics an ACOG scope will do you no good unless you get a longer barrel for better accuracy. and modern versions of the AK will be able to take a red dot sight if it makes you feel better

[Hitman]

suppresors don't make guns more inaccurate . infact they tend to help with group size , kind of the same way a BOSS does. also why would you need a barrel to be longer than 16" to use with a scope.

[john154]

So I expect dues to your lack of other options this thread will be turning into another AK vs AR thread. Next time throw some more options in there buddy.
Ex:
Pistol (9mm/.45 ect)
Submachine Gun (MP5/P90 ect)
Assault Rifle (AR/AK ect)
Battle rifle (M-14/FN FAL ect)
Great War rifle (Le Enfield/K98)
Hunting rifle/sniper rifle
Shotgun (Remmington/mossberg ect)

[JakAttak]

suppresors don't make guns more inaccurate . infact they tend to help with group size , kind of the same way a BOSS does. also why would you need a barrel to be longer than 16" to use with a scope.

suppressors do make guns more innaccurate since that open space will throw the bullet off a miniscule fraction of an inch thats a lot if you're shooting at a distance

[Hitman]

suppressors do make guns more innaccurate since that open space will throw the bullet off a miniscule fraction of an inch thats a lot if you're shooting at a distance


please explain further . what open space? the gap between the bullet and the baffles? if thats it ,how will it throw a bullet off course when it doesn't touch the bullet ? I'd like to know how this works.

[JakAttak]

I'm not exactly sure of the science but it's the reason you can't but suppressors on sniper rifles because a hundredth of an inch out of the barrel is a hundred feet 600 yds away but even at 200 meters thats one hell of a problem

[Hitman]

I'm not exactly sure of the science but it's the reason you can't but suppressors on sniper rifles because a hundredth of an inch out of the barrel is a hundred feet 600 yds away but even at 200 meters thats one hell of a problem


are you talking about non-modular shift , MOA drifting , stringing of the shots, POI shift , super-sonic loss destabaliztion? I've heard about something but can't put my finger on it.

[bandits1]

suppressors do make guns more innaccurate since that open space will throw the bullet off a miniscule fraction of an inch thats a lot if you're shooting at a distance
According to this article: http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/564/sesent/00 - it greatly depends on the type and quality of the suppressor. They report that some suppressors do terrible things to accuracy, while some improve it and slightly increase muzzle-velocity.

[Hitman]

the slight bump up in velocity is called free-bore boost. it comes from the pressure behind the bullet still being high but the bullet is free from the rifiling , giving it a shove after it leaves the barrel.

[JakAttak]

the slight bump up in velocity is called free-bore boost. it comes from the pressure behind the bullet still being high but the bullet is free from the rifiling , giving it a shove after it leaves the barrel.
okay yea like I said I didn't know the exact science but I knew they could screw with accurracy.

[Hitman]

okay yea like I said I didn't know the exact science but I knew they could screw with accurracy.

that in its self doesn't screw with accuracy. its a repeatable event . a well designed silencer doesn't effect accuracy at all , and like I said before some accualy help it. they do put silencers on sniper rifles , I'd do it if I had one .

here is one thats within the context of this thread no doubt . http://www.knightarmco.com/images/sr25.html . here is another http://www.gem-tech.com/HVT.html .

[JakAttak]

hmm well I suppose with newer ones when my dad was a sniper they couldn't use them

[Hitman]

hmm well I suppose with newer ones when my dad was a sniper they couldn't use them


some of the silencers used during the '60's and '70's used whats called wipes . that was bad for accuracy.

[JakAttak]

my dad was in the 80s

[Hitman]

my dad was in the 80s

Paulson and Dater were putting out good designs by then.

[JakAttak]

only army rangers and the way some silencers work by decreasing muzzle velocity that is something you don't want on a sniper rifle

[masszombiekiller]

definantly an m16, an ak47 is not so good since it has a really bad recoil and is automatic, but the m16 is semi-auto with good accuracy and all you need is one headshot, right?

[JakAttak]

pretty much

[john154]

I tried. I really tried. Giver all over again. Lets hear more about AK vs AR. Children.

[bandits1]

I tried. I really tried. Giver all over again. Lets hear more about AK vs AR. Children.
What are you complaining about? Given the limited choices the OP layed out in his opening post and the poll, this thread was intended from the very start to be a "AK vs. M-16/M-4/AR-15" topic. If you want to discuss other types of weaponry, either search for a thread that talks about the specific type that you want to talk about or start your own thread.

Simple.

[Faran Brigo]

definantly an m16, an ak47 is not so good since it has a really bad recoil and is automatic, but the m16 is semi-auto with good accuracy and all you need is one headshot, right?

Both have single shot mode, that's why they're both assault rifles, they both have safe and semi auto mode, the difference is the third setting on the AK family is "auto" and on the AR-15/M16 family it's "3-round burst". Civilian legal versions of both (except for pre-ban specimens) are semi-auto only.

The exception to the rule is the M4, which has a full auto mode and comes smaller and lighter at the expense of overheating and muzzle velocity issues. The rival from the AK family, the AKS-74U has similar issues, but it doesn't have picatinny rail mounts and uses 5.45mm ammo.

[detpat]

actually the M16 was a selective fire weapon with a full auto setting, the 3 round burst came along with the A2 version. The AK series doesn't have severe recoil, even in cut down versions. the 5.45 versions are real darlings to shoot.

here are a couple pics of my SAR-1

[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/harrybeck/DSC09849.jpg]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/harrybeck/DSC09845.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/harrybeck/DSC09851.jpg

[detpat]

actually the M16 was a selective fire weapon with a full auto setting, the 3 round burst came along with the A2 version. The AK series doesn't have severe recoil, even in cut down versions. the 5.45 versions are real darlings to shoot.

here are a couple pics of my SAR-1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/harrybeck/DSC09849-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/harrybeck/DSC09845.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/harrybeck/DSC09851.jpg

[JakAttak]

well the small kick is because of the light brittle composite stock which can't be used as an emergency melee weapon.

[Dave Of The Dead]

well the small kick is because of the light brittle composite stock which can't be used as an emergency melee weapon.

The kick of the gun has nothing to do with what kind of stock it has.

[detpat]

wrong anyway. sounds like you read the wrong books. while you can break a stock on any firearm, the 16 isn't as toylike as you seem to think. polymer stocks in general aren't toys and will re adjust your day if you get buttstroked with one.

[mattifikation]

You mean it will readjust a zombie's day. Remember where we're posting so we don't get shut down again! ;-)

[detpat]

well of that's a given. no one wants to upset the delicate sensibilities and such. my point being that if one wants to have credible arguments on a subject, one needs to have some experience with the subject.

[JakAttak]

but having an AK's wood and steel stock instead of a polymer spring loaded one wouldn't the former be better for bashing open skulls

[Faran Brigo]

I'm not sure what you mean with "spring loaded" but either way, probably yes, but regardless of the answer that's beside the point, which is that you shouldn't be using your gun as a club in the first place. Make no mistake, wood does not really last for long if you use it to break bone, especially skulls.

You're supposed to have a small and handy melee weapon that can double as a tool exactly for those occasions, like a crowbar, a hatchet, tomahawk, hammer, etc. Something that's actually made to be used to strike or cut. Using your gun as a club regardless of the material the stock's made of can damage the reciever.

[JakAttak]

I'm not talkin' about swinging the stock around like a dumbass I mean as a last ditch effort.

[TEBreck]

You can keep the AK and the M16 I think the best weapon zombie or not is the AA12. A fully automatic shotgun. You gotta see it to believe it. Plus I'd rate 12 gauge ammo far more common than that of any other gun that would stop a zombie.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-L40l7069G5c/aa12_a_fully_automatic_12_gauge_shotgun_2007/

[Faran Brigo]

Automatic shotguns suck so much no real army uses them significantly. They're bulky, heavy, got low magazine capacity and are very expensive, many of them are also unreliable. Against zeds they're wasteful because you don't need the auto or the stopping power of the 12 gauge, you just need to blow their brains out.

Nope, it's probably one of the worst weapons to have, zombie apocalypse or not. And the Saiga or the jackhammer are better than the AA12 too, both are more reliable, and easier to get, not that any of those are easy to find or buy in the first place.

[Hitman]

I've tried looking for a place that sells the AA12 to see what kind of price range they are. I've not been able to find one , let alone anyone that has them instock to sell. I think its almost vaporware.

[Darkness]

"Okay you guys! We have other threads for talking about random weapons. Back to the topic, please." :naughty:

[detpat]

I have a saiga 12. great shotgun, but either of the weapons discussed by this thread are better for this application.

[JakAttak]

You can keep the AK and the M16 I think the best weapon zombie or not is the AA12. A fully automatic shotgun. You gotta see it to believe it. Plus I'd rate 12 gauge ammo far more common than that of any other gun that would stop a zombie.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-L40l7069G5c/aa12_a_fully_automatic_12_gauge_shotgun_2007/
As fun as they are to shoot when the dead rise steer clear of automatic weapons especially something as unreliable and stupidly wasteful as an automatic shotgun. take most militaries advice and don't even consider it in your arsenal replace it with something with. a) smaller ammo(shhhhhh, don't tell anyone but 12 gauge shells are bigger than bullets).b) something more reliable. All let me repeat ALL fully automatic weapons run a high risk of a jam especially something that spits out a spent cartridge the size of my thumb. save yourself the trouble a get a bolt-action sonny. c) something quieter. AUTOMATIC SHOTGUNS ARE REALLY LOUD... KINDA LIKE TYPING IN ALL CAPS, BUT WITH A GUN. Rifles are quieter. d) overall smaller, if you take leave of all your senses and carry an auto shotgun hope you won't be doing any running or gear carrying or working or anything that involves any physical effort. Now that your plan has been debunked I hope you will stay away from this weapon. If not you deserve to be eaten cause you have no more sense than what you're trying to kill.:loon:

[Darkness]

As fun as they are to shoot when the dead rise steer clear of automatic weapons especially something as unreliable and stupidly wasteful as an automatic shotgun. take most militaries advice and don't even consider it in your arsenal replace it with something with. a) smaller ammo(shhhhhh, don't tell anyone but 12 gauge shells are bigger than bullets).b) something more reliable. All let me repeat ALL fully automatic weapons run a high risk of a jam especially something that spits out a spent cartridge the size of my thumb. save yourself the trouble a get a bolt-action sonny. c) something quieter. AUTOMATIC SHOTGUNS ARE REALLY LOUD... KINDA LIKE TYPING IN ALL CAPS, BUT WITH A GUN. Rifles are quieter. d) overall smaller, if you take leave of all your senses and carry an auto shotgun hope you won't be doing any running or gear carrying or working or anything that involves any physical effort. Now that your plan has been debunked I hope you will stay away from this weapon. If not you deserve to be eaten cause you have no more sense than what you're trying to kill.:loon:

"We have a place to talk about shotguns..."

http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16232

".....Now.....GET BACK ON TOPIC!." :naughty:

[Faran Brigo]

Yes bolt action rifles are more reliable than both semi and automatic rifles. That does NOT mean semiauto/auto weapons are as you say "run a high risk of a jam". An AK47/AKM will (and this is very well documented) fire if you drag it through mud, sand, and dirt, it will fire after it's been neglected for months, and it will fire ammo older than some of the members of these forums. What you're saying comes straight from "The zombie survival guide", which has some good ideas, some deficient ones and some nonsense, It's a GUIDE, not a BIBLE.

Both the M16A2 and the AK47 are fairly reliable rifles (the later more than the former), and here's the kicker which is rarely mentioned, reliability depends a lot on the quality of the ammo you're using. Anyway, I agree with Darkness, this is starting to stray off-topic a bit. Both of the rifles mentioned here will serve you well.

[JakAttak]

just sayin' man

[john154]

Buddy rifles aren't quiet and automatic capable rifles have been reliable since the end of the second world war. Your spitting out recycled speculation here. Even .22 which is "quiet" by firearm standards is still plenty loud. Anything thats gonna kill a 100kg target or reach out a few hundred meters is gonna let everyone around know your there.

[detpat]

I think the problem here is a lack of experience.

[JakAttak]

:doh:no I'm not saying these things in the way you think I'm saying them relatively.

[50 cal]

One shot to the brain housing group will fell anyone, living or dead. The 5.56(.223 Rem) will do that no problem. I've seen it happen first hand to the living. :evil:

My go to rifle would be the 5.56 AR15 in M4 configuration. I also have a 9mm AR that will head shot out to 100m. I plan on getting a suppressor for this rifle.

[Hitman]

50cal , welcome back (to the boards and to this state) , is your 9mm an SBR ? what brands of cans you looking at , with what mounts?

I've though about a 9mm AR , but with the M11/9 and the MP5 I already use way too much as it is. I do need a .458socom though. 600gr slugs at 900fps sounds like my cup'o'tea .

[JakAttak]

how is this about the poll?

[IronJayBee]

I feel the AK 47 is a superior assault rifle than the M16, tats just me though

[CAVU45]

I'll trust my life to the good old M-4, especially refitted with a gas piston system.

[brainbuster]

Out of those choices, it would have to be by far the Assault Kalashnikov Model 1974
otherwise known as the AK-47. this marvel made of forged steel and plywood almost never jams.It can face any climate and work perfect you can pour sand down the barrel,stick it in the mud and drop it on pavement a million times and it still works perfect because the fireing mecanisim is so loose.it almost never has to be cleaned and operating the AK is so simple a child can do it and they do. Also the 7.62x39 round it fires has twice the kinetic energy or knock down power of the 5.56 witch by the way is just a 22 with a bigger casing.:)

[BobZombie]

Brainbuster,

AK-47 = 7.62 x 39
AK-74 = 5.45 x 39

Yes, there are “2” different models with slight design changes between them.

As far as the rest of your post you have most it wrong too. I believe AKs are fine weapons. However, I believe for Z-Day, the currently used “M-16” is a better all around choice.

[Bob]

5.56 witch by the way is just a 22 with a bigger casing.:)

Brainbluster, Dude
Friendly advice that applies to ALL forums.
1. Think before you speak
2. Don't be lazy, do some research.
3. Don't believe all the crap your friends tell you.
4. Pick your battles
5. Learn to use a spell checker

For the record getting shot with a 45 acp in the hand does not
A. Rip your arm off
B. Dislocate your shoulder
C. Spin you around in a circle
D. Send a shockwave up your arm that explodes your heart
E. A torso hit will not throw you back like being hit by a truck


I do have a question for you though, do you have any adult sisters?

[homelitexl]

my 308. is perfect then.

[Bob]

HomeliteXL

Congrats on your spelling!
It was PERFECT! :clap:

Now we just need to work on capitalization... :x

Really I am just kidding around about the spelling and such but it would be nice if everyone made an effort.


This is intended as friendly criticism not a poke in the eye with a stick. When you are typing a rifle caliber the period goes before the number because you are indicating a fraction. It's .308 not 308. I try not to end a sentence with a caliber because then it looks like this .308.

Go here and enter .308
http://www.webmath.com/dec2fract.html

[CAVU45]

All arguments aside (and there have been some good arguments), I think the choice of AK and variants or M-16 and variants is simply personal preference. Both weapons have their good points and bad. It comes down to experience with a system and choice. In the end make your choice for "loosey goosey" or "Mattel is swell" and become very familiar with it. It could save your life.

[MFISH618]

ak47 is a piece of junk, m16 has problems.....I'm old school and prefer an m1, and a double jack sledge.

[Bob]

The Garand does not hold enough rounds to suit me.
If you must have a 30 cal rifle then M1A / M14 for the win.

In a conflict with Zack I want a high capacity low recoil rifle and pistol.

[CAVU45]

The AK is like the "Energizer Bunny" of assault weapons. It keeps shooting, and shooting...There's not much you can do to it to make it stop firing. The M-16 had problems. Most were taken care of years ago to make it one of the most reliable weapons in the world.

[homelitexl]

still like my .308 better named it autumn, but it would be perfect long distance accuracy. plus ammo is common.

[alucard]

my weapon would be a 500 magnum(or 2), more than the power needed to stop a zombie
:guns:

[Bob]

alucard

I think you are mistaken about what it takes to kill a Zombie.
Typically you don't have to shoot through a car and a brick wall to get to them.

[Darkness]

"This thread is for the discussion of the weapons listed in the Poll only. For a more expanded weapons topic, go here......."

http://www.allthingszombie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15821

".......Thank you."

[mattifikation]

Even though I'd rather have an AR-15, I recently purchased an AK-47. I haven't had the pleasure of shooting it, because I haven't been able to cough up the money for bullets.

Hopefully the accuracy will prove good enough for bustin' zombie skulls.

[vortec1]

100 hundred yards AK is the best. 200 yards 5.56 is there.

[Bob]

.308 is the Queen of the long range Battlefield.

[homelitexl]

thank you bob when the zeds rise you can stop by me and autumn will keep them at bay while you enjoy a break. anyway autumn is a lever action browning built on the bar frame.

[Bob]

HomeliteXL

When Z day comes just head our way.
We can always use a heavy equipment operator.
Can you drive a track hoe?

[EvilWeasel35]

I recently purchased an AK-47. I haven't had the pleasure of shooting it, because I haven't been able to cough up the money for bullets.

Hopefully the accuracy will prove good enough for bustin' zombie skulls.


I'm sooo jealous! I would love an AK, but the chances of me getting one in this country would be zero to none. I collected the bullet casings from the one I fired in Latvia but a nasty, evil, moustache-wearing woman at customs confiscated them! :x

So, guess what? The AK-47 gets my vote.:)

[Bob]

They wouldn't even let you bring the empty cases into the country?
Thats hard for me to comprehend.
I grew up around guns.

[EvilWeasel35]

They wouldn't even let you bring the empty cases into the country?
Thats hard for me to comprehend.
I grew up around guns.

I know, it's not like I can shoot anyone with empty shell casings. I did try arguing my point but she was bigger than me - kinda like a Russian rugby player!:)
(Rugby - a game played by men with odd-shaped balls) ;o)

[DarthJoe8]

I wonder who the 8 people who picked, "calculator" as "what is the best of these weapons" are....:think:

:drinking: EDIT: I just found how to check....:lol:

[Bob]

I am ignoring the rugby comment. :roll:

I wonder what would happen if I tried to ship you some live ammunition.
Would they throw us both in jail?

Over here we can buy without restriction buy most of a gun off the internet.
If you are smart enough to build it from parts the only piece that has to involve registration is the receiver.

[EvilWeasel35]

I wonder what would happen if I tried to ship you some live ammunition. Would they throw us both in jail?

In today's political climate I wouldn't want to risk it. I'm sure the neighbours wouldn't appreciate twenty armed policemen knocking our door down at six in the morning!

[Bob]

You are probably right.
Oh well when you come to visit I will hook you up with the real deal.
We will be snorting gun smoke and shooting lead...

[homelitexl]

can i come i'll bring my banjo i can play real good.

[Bob]

HomeliteXL

Come on over
Just be aware that banjo music makes me nervous.
I have seen the movie Deliverance.
The first person who makes any sort of reference to my mouth or asks me if I can make any animal sounds is going to DIE!
Before they can utter another sound,
I am going to put a Federal HST in 45acp http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3457/federalhst001gl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)through both their eyes!!!!

[homelitexl]

don't worry i won't although i can play that song yeah i always wanted to play who knows it might scare raiders away.

[Bob]

We could use that song to lure Zeds into a pit.

[homelitexl]

yeah wow bob we have a plan, plus if you was a raider and heard that would you go near it.

[Lurker13]

Maybe a silly question but I dont know. Which bullets are easier to find. For the AK47 or the M16? Is one a better shot than the other? Thatd make a difference to which I chose.

[Bob]

Both are relativly easy to find.
Food for the AK's may still be cheaper but the days of the really really cheap stuff is gone.

The AR-15 is generally accepted as more accurate than a AK.

You can get ammo for both at your local Wally World.

[mattifikation]

It's a trade off. Accuracy for reliability. I think AR-15's in real world situations are probably plenty reliable, you just have to clean them more often than AK-47's.

I seriously question the ability to pull off long and medium range head shots with an AK-47...

[KrimsonKing]

The AK may have greater stopping power since it is a larger bullet but the recoil is also increased, lengthening the time it takes you to accurately engage another target. However the M16 uses a smaller round so the recoil is less, plus you can carry more rounds for the same weight and the straight stock design drives the gun straight back instead of up. When it comes to head shots you don’t need stopping power.
The M16 is also more accurate over long distance due to weight to speed ratio. The only thing the AK has over the M16 is its durability and the fact you almost never have to clean it.
I go with the M16/M4

[homelitexl]

you all have a problem go to bass pro or where ever sells a 308. buy the !@#@ing 308. i know its not listed but hell it's perfect for this.

[Bob]

Homerlitexl

What kind of .308?
Personally I want a FAL.

[homelitexl]

it doesn't matter as long as it's a 308..

[Darkness]

"If it's not in the Poll, it doesn't belong in the conversation in this thread." :naughty:

"Now, back to the schedualed topic."

[Gummerfan]

I'm torn... Just offhand I'd choose the AK, because of its reliability and since I don't plan pick off zombies at longer ranges, it's "accurate enough".
But, I'd probably take my M4gery since I can also carry my Carbon 15 pistol and the mags, ammo, and most parts are interchangeable.
If I had a lightweight AK pistol to mate with my AK, things would probably change.

[Bob]

Defiantly going with with 80's vintage CAR and a Glock 17.
Everyone on my team will have a 9mm automatic.

But ya never know I might go nuts and use an AK.
I just regret not buying a short ton of them when they were cheap.

[kiltedninja]

I think it'd be cool to have one of three things:

An M1 Garand, semi automatic fire at long range with a reasonably sized bullet.

An AK47, semiauto mod. It's decently accurate as a semiautomatic weapon.

Or, my favorite gun ever the 1903 Lee Enfield infantry rifle.

[tytanos14]

Rpg Would Be the Most Useless thing Against a Zombie Attack

Reason 1.) Explosion doesnt damage brain Therefore THeyd get back Up Maybe only killing 1 or 2
Reason 2.) Would take forever to Reload and ZOmbies can run
Reason 3.) Wouldnt be able to run with a Huge Rpg and Tuns of Rockets

[Bob]

RExplosion doesnt damage brain

Huh???
What universe do you live in?

[snakebite]

Of those weapons? I would go with the AK. Personally, I love my M4--its accurate, lethal and awesome. But from experience shooting mag after mag through it, it will eventually start to malfunction. Yeah, it takes a hundred or more rounds to get there but it will happen. You will need constant lubrication and what if you just don't have any more? Carbon build up in M4's is a real problem. That is why the current tren of SpecOps cool guys is to use the HK 416--it is a piston operated gas system that is very similar to the AK. And don't get me wrong--AK's need lube and maintenance too but they are built to looser tolerances and will take far more crap getting in their system before shutting down, aside form their hardier operating system. Bullets wise, a 5.56mm bullet is totally lethal and so is a 7.62x39mm bullet--particularly with todays superior ammunition. But yeah, blah-blah-blah--I would go with the AK. Worst comes to worst, I know I can unload at waist level into a horde of zombies coming up a stairway and those bullets are going to tear through all kinds of flesh and bone, dropping em like sacks of zombie...stuff.

[mattifikation]

Here's one for you, homelite:

http://www.gizmag.com/the-ultimate-in-zombie-defense-the-ar-15-semi-automatic-with-chainsaw-bayonet/10524/

[homelitexl]

well i still would use my 308. and in any case the m-16 is 223 caliber and i don't like ak-47's the rest is poinless,

[Z-Day is very soon]

actually you never said what kind of ak47 so im just gonna go with zastava m21

[Comander Shaw]

Of those weapons? I would go with the AK. Personally, I love my M4--its accurate, lethal and awesome. But from experience shooting mag after mag through it, it will eventually start to malfunction. Yeah, it takes a hundred or more rounds to get there but it will happen. You will need constant lubrication and what if you just don't have any more? Carbon build up in M4's is a real problem. That is why the current tren of SpecOps cool guys is to use the HK 416--it is a piston operated gas system that is very similar to the AK. And don't get me wrong--AK's need lube and maintenance too but they are built to looser tolerances and will take far more crap getting in their system before shutting down, aside form their hardier operating system. Bullets wise, a 5.56mm bullet is totally lethal and so is a 7.62x39mm bullet--particularly with todays superior ammunition. But yeah, blah-blah-blah--I would go with the AK. Worst comes to worst, I know I can unload at waist level into a horde of zombies coming up a stairway and those bullets are going to tear through all kinds of flesh and bone, dropping em like sacks of zombie...stuff.



Actually the firing modes depend on the M16 series.
M16A1: Peice of shit jammed all the ****ing time
M16A2: A bit better but, jamming issuses still
M16A3:Full Automatic as firing mode along with burst and semi. Jamming problems were fixed by dumping mag clearing chamber and inserting new mag.
M16A4(current):No automatic, almost no jamming but if jamming ocurred same as A3

Personally, I'd pick the M16.:rock:

[Creeping Death]

Actually the firing modes depend on the M16 series.
M16A1: Peice of shit jammed all the ****ing time
M16A2: A bit better but, jamming issuses still
M16A3:Full Automatic as firing mode along with burst and semi. Jamming problems were fixed by dumping mag clearing chamber and inserting new mag.
M16A4(current):No automatic, almost no jamming but if jamming ocurred same as A3

Personally, I'd pick the M16.:rock:

I believe the M-16 is superior in this poll.
Either the A3 or A4.
I'd take either.:rimshot:

[Bob]

Comander Shaw

Have you actually had them jam on you?

[CAVU45]

Having experience with both the first and latest M-16 models, I can say that the latest model is a much better weapon. It'll still jam but it takes continuous heavy use before that happens. Even the first models had an undeserved reputation for jamming. Now, the originals did jam, but that was mainly due to the Army fielding ammunition with a different propellant than the rifle was made to use and the Army telling troops that the weapon didn't need cleaning. Once those problems were taken care of the M-16 operated very well. I can say with no reservation I would stake my life on my M-4.

[Comander Shaw]

Comander Shaw

Have you actually had them jam on you?

I have friends in high places.:skull:

[Bob]

While I did not shoot any of the original issue ones before the initial changes to the bore but I have shot more than a couple of the Vietnam vintage ones. If half-assed taken care of I found them to be reliable.

[Comander Shaw]

Hmmmmm.... possibly.
I will have to check again.

[Creeping Death]

I wish i could have voted for the M-16, but the poll closed. :x

[mattifikation]

Even with the M16, you'll probably run out of bullets before you have a jam.

[Bob]

Especially if it is one of the old ones that will "rock and roll".

[Cbump the zombie slayer]

id go with the ak 47 because its got better range and uses a bigger round than the m-16. the rpg isn't a good choice cause if you got to close your zombie food

[Cbump the zombie slayer]

I wish i could have voted for the M-16, but the poll closed. :x

i believe that your wrong because the ak uses a 7.62 round and the m-16 use a 5.56 round which is a little more accurate but doesnt have the punch like the ak at further distances

[Creeping Death]

i believe that your wrong because the ak uses a 7.62 round and the m-16 use a 5.56 round which is a little more accurate but doesnt have the punch like the ak at further distances

Hmmmm.
True, but I just don't prefer the Avtomat-Kalashnikova.
Maybe the G36C should have been in this poll. :cry:

[Cbump the zombie slayer]

yea but i would stick with a 9 mm because ammo easy to get

[Creeping Death]

yea but i would stick with a 9 mm because ammo easy to get

Very true.
That should've been included in the poll. :doh:

[the dark bro]

well the m16 is good 4 small waves of thim but if you want to kill a lot of thim in a small room the RPG helps:evil:

[mrlaughingman]

the rocket launcher is always the best way to go

[Creeping Death]

the rocket launcher is always the best way to go

Not when your traveling, its not.

[kiltedninja]

Thinking realistically, an M-16, a newer model, with proper equipment to care for it, would be the best for any long term, z-day trek.

[CAVU45]

well the m16 is good 4 small waves of thim but if you want to kill a lot of thim in a small room the RPG helps:evil:

If you want to die. Ever seen what an RPG does in close quarters?

[CAVU45]

the rocket launcher is always the best way to go


The best way to go for what? A RPG hitting soft tissue doesn't readily explode. Plus, it's heavy, cumbersome, rather difficult to reload and you can carry relativily few rounds.

[kiltedninja]

Remember mate, the people who are saying this stuff look at it from the perspective of someone who plays far too many video games, or watches too many movies(often times both.) and really won't understand things like that.

So, giving them stuff like real life experience and the thoughts of a person who's fired them is falling on deaf ears often.

An M1, Lee Enfield, an M16 A4, or if I didn't have any of those(On a desert island basically), than I'd go with an AK.

[CAVU45]

Remember mate, the people who are saying this stuff look at it from the perspective of someone who plays far too many video games, or watches too many movies(often times both.) and really won't understand things like that.

So, giving them stuff like real life experience and the thoughts of a person who's fired them is falling on deaf ears often.

An M1, Lee Enfield, an M16 A4, or if I didn't have any of those(On a desert island basically), than I'd go with an AK.

:x Yeh, I know. The headache I have is from beating my head against a wall. Seems to me that common sense would tell them that setting off a damned big rocket propelled grenade in a small room would be really bad thing to do. As well, carrying one would severely hamper ones chances of survival.
As for me, make mine the M4. I would (and have) trusted my life to that weapon. I know this rifle wasn't part of the poll, but one that's been overlooked is the good old lever action rifle. Nothing can beat it for simplicity, ruggedness, reliability and accuracy. Get one in a revolver caliber and pack a six gun as well.

[ARKHANGEL]

I would use the Chaytac sniper system for long range then the H&K M16A4 lookalike (7.62) then the Atchisson Automatic Shotgun and for personal use the H&K USP .40

the AK-47 is only good out to 300 meters
depending on the M16 series you have its easy to get a head shot out to 500 meters max effective is 550 soooooo thats my choice

SSgt Cole / USMC

[CAVU45]

I would use the Chaytac sniper system for long range then the H&K M16A4 lookalike (7.62) then the Atchisson Automatic Shotgun and for personal use the H&K USP .40

the AK-47 is only good out to 300 meters
depending on the M16 series you have its easy to get a head shot out to 500 meters max effective is 550 soooooo thats my choice

SSgt Cole / USMC

That's a lot of weight to carry around, especially the sniper rifle. The ChayTac rifle alone is somewhere around 27 lbs. Ammo weight for all those weapons would be restrictive. Based on a person carrying a standard combat load it would run over 100lbs. Inclue all the weapons and your lugging around about 145+ lbs of weapons and ammo. That doesn't leave room for the other necessitites for survival. Better to ditch all but a primary weapon and a back-up. If it's long range you're looking for a tricked out AR can reach out to 1400 meters. But in all honesty, what would be the need for it?

[Comander Shaw]

That's a lot of weight to carry around, especially the sniper rifle. The ChayTac rifle alone is somewhere around 27 lbs. Ammo weight for all those weapons would be restrictive. Based on a person carrying a standard combat load it would run over 100lbs. Inclue all the weapons and your lugging around about 145+ lbs of weapons and ammo. That doesn't leave room for the other necessitites for survival. Better to ditch all but a primary weapon and a back-up. If it's long range you're looking for a tricked out AR can reach out to 1400 meters. But in all honesty, what would be the need for it?

Long range srtagglers. But i do agree about the extensive weight capacity

[kiltedninja]

We do have those cool truck things, the ones to carry all our crap, and us!

But if you're puttin boots to dirt, then it is a lot of weight.

I'd have to agree, a Lever or Bolt action rifle would force you to conserve ammo, and thus force you to take more careful shots. That's why I'd pick something without a full auto option unless I absolutely had to.

H&K416 is a pretty gun. I've never shot one yet, but if it shoots like the M4, then we might have a keeper.