Zombie Film Or Not Zombie Film

[Grimsdyke]

Are these filsm Zombie movies or not ? you decide

Slither
28 Days Later
28 Weeks later
I Drink Your Blood
Wicke Little Things

[evilzombie20]

I DRINK YOUR BLOOD, definitely not.

SLITHER...kind of, some people consider it a zombie movie some don't but strangely most if not all zombie fans consider NIGHT OF THE CREEPS a zombie film and it sort of follows the same plot. The others, eh...maybe. Not really. Okay someone else take this QUICK!

[Grimsdyke]

Really you don't think I drinbk your blood is a zombi films I mean it basically follows the same storyline as 28 days later (a random infection).....................Or wait did you say 28 days later wasn't a zombie film?

[evilzombie20]

The others are kind of "iffy". While they have zombie like tendencies, they never actually die and come back to life which everyone on this board should know is what a zombie is...essentially.

[Cornflakes]

Well becoming a zombie is mostly by infection from an other zombie, so you could say yes. But then, I think most Zombies come from dead bodies, In 28days/months the people weren't dead they where living people infected.

Slither was different as they died for a short time then came back as erm...zombies :drool: So I would guess that wouldmean they are zombies. I see zombies as dead mindless bodies either out for food or to do their masters bidding!:evil:

In my trusty Oxford dictionary its says:
/zombi/ n 1 Colloq a dull or apathetic person.
2 a cropse said to be revived by witchcraft. [West African zumbi 'festish']

:drool: erm...yeah...that clears it up??!?!?

[MaxVeers]

You may want to include:

The Fog
Horror Rises From The Tomb
Carnival of Souls
The Faculty

But, all things considered, no, the above are not Romero-style flesh-eaters. Does that not make them zombies? I guess it's personal preference. If anything that isn't Romero-style, flesh-eating reanimated corpses, then O'Bannon's Return of the Living Dead wasn't zombies, either. They walked briskly, they spoke, they thought pretty cognatively, they even had the energy to dig through 6 feet of dirt and, potentially, the walls of their own burial casket. Neither would the creatures from Snyder's remake of Dawn. But, all things considered... Romero never called his OWN creatures "zombies" until after Dawn (he called then ghouls and flesh-eaters), and not on-screen until Land ("zombies, man..."). Zombie just seems to be the general public's combining of the previous concept of voodoo and hivemind zombies (such as those in White Zombie and Plan 9, respectively) and Romero's new idea, and that of all of his soon-to-be emitators, of reanimated corpses out for human flesh.
(Peter's quotation "there's going to be a thousand zombies in here..." in Dawn '78 is, as far as I see it, supposed to be in relation to his family history and familiarity with voodoo, and the voodoo-style concept of zombies, which are just people brought back from "near-death").

In general, there are four basic types of zombies... Or atleast how they're brought about.

You've got biological/chemical (Return, potentially Night, Planet Terror, etc), which are brought about by some form of biological or chemical stimulant, a mutation or change of some sort. This is closely related to, but no to be confused with the next type...

Viral, which is just a sort of active, live virus that either infects the living and changes them into ghouls after death or brings the dead back to life. Some examples of this would be the Resident Evil films. The major difference is that a virus is live and active, something that requires a host like any other virus or illness, while chemicals can be spread through most anything, including the air or rain (like in Return and Planet Terror) and cause mutations at any time, not just when the body becomes ill. 28 Days/Week Later would be a close example of viral (even though the virus doesn't seem to die when exposed to the elements), but the hosts of the virus don't die from the virus itself, nor are they dead when they attack their victims. That would make 28 Days/Weeks Later more similar to The Crazies (which is being remade and will probably share a lot with those films) than Romero's Dead films. Speaking of host, the next would be...

Hivemind zombies. These would be a mass of dead bodies, for example, controlled through commands (usually assumed to be some kind of telekenesis) from a central being. Slither and, as a stretch, The Faculty would be an example of this. The only problem with The Faculty is that, after the head mind was destroyed, the host minds returned to normal, leading you to believe that they were not, at any point, dead (or undead), but just out of control of their own mind and body. Even Invasion of the Body Snatchers could be considered an example of this, had the bodies that the aliens used to replicate the living and the bodies that the aliens stole and hidden been one in the same. So, these small differences are what seperate these titles from being "true" films featuring the undead... Slither's host minds, and bodies, died and rotted while under control of the head mind; The other films didn't.

And then, last but not least, there are Hellborne zombies. These guys can do pretty much whatever the writer wants them to, because they're not controlled by logic or reason; If they've made their way back from hell, they can do pretty much anything and survive whatever you throw at them if they writer wants them to. Some examples of these sorts of zombies would be, say... Creepshow, Gates of Hell, and The Fog. They can also have their storyline and origins sharing traits and even nessled between other styles of zombies... For example, if Satan controls a horde of bodies that were once inhabited by souls that are now trapped in hell... They're sorta Hivemind, too, aren't they? Or, if the storyline doesn't entirely explain or origins of the ghouls, and gives both logical means with which to the kill off the undead characters as well as a religious subtext (ahem...), then they could be chemical, viral, or have the possibility of being any of the above without definition.

Sorry to ramble. But I've considered this, too... "What is a zombie and what isn't?" It's all up to personal opinion, it seems, but I believe that true zombies are rooted heavily in logic, such as Romero's flesh-eaters (they are never indefinitely defined, but they walk, feast, and can be killed by logical means), but also provide just a little bit of thinking room, both for the creatures themselves and the viewer.

[ZombiesAteMyDog]

I used to think 28 days / weeks later were zombie flicks because they were so zombie like, but the more I thought about it, the more it really makes sense that they are clearly not zombies

there are 2 major difrences, as evilzombie pointed out once you die , you are dead for good, no dead bodies come back only living people can get infected.

and to a lesser degree, 28 days / weeks later infected can die in anyway a human can, if you shoot them in the stomach they die , if they get hit by a car they die etc.

slither I would say has zombies in it but is not a zombie movie persey.

[The Blind Dead]

Slither = Yes or no depending on whether you believe alien infested corpses can be considered zombies.
28 Days Later = No.
28 Weeks Later = No.
I Drink Your Blood = No.
Wicked Little Things = Technically, yes.

[evilzombie20]

WICKED LITTLE THINGS is weird because they call them zombies though they're not really zombies in a sense. They're more like ghosts if anything. But then again...they're called zombies and they have zombie characteristics.

Damn...this is way too complicated. I'm going with BD on this one, technically they're zombies.

[MaxVeers]

I saw Wicked Little Things (which was original, A, to be directed by Tobe Hooper, and B, plainly called "ZOMBIES"), and I think I understand why they both changed the title and addressed them as "zombies" in the film.

I we saw people that seemed dead walking around, whether they ate flesh or not, we'd call them zombies, despite the fact that this isn't entirely the original (Haitian) concept of zombies at all. If we saw the spirits of the dead haunting others, we'd call them ghosts, whether they had any religious symblance or not. If we saw a giant monkey tearing shit up, we'd call it King Kong, just because we know that character well. It's just relating things to what we know, whether they apply entirely or not.

This goes right back to my previous statement, where Peter of Dawn of the Dead calls Romero's self-appointed ghouls or flesheaters by a different name, "zombies," because of his personal background and experience with voodoo and their beliefs in zombies. They're not the same thing, but when you see a dead man walking around...

[Zombie_215]

I used to think 28 days / weeks later were zombie flicks because they were so zombie like, but the more I thought about it, the more it really makes sense that they are clearly not zombies



I thought the same thing when I first heard about the movie. As I watched, I realized my mistake...

[BarnabusBlackoak]

Wicked Little Things are solid ghosts. They have been dead for several decades, but are not rotted. So, not zombies.

[The Blind Dead]

...solid, flesheating ghosts?

[MaxVeers]

...solid, flesheating ghosts?

I don't remember them eating flesh, just beating the shit outa people with pipes. But, it's been a while, so I could be wrong.

But, yes. Much of Japanese folklore (see the history references thread) deals with GHOSTS, not reanimated corpses, that eat dead or living flesh.

[BarnabusBlackoak]

I don't remember them eating flesh, just beating the shit outa people with pipes. But, it's been a while, so I could be wrong.

But, yes. Much of Japanese folklore (see the history references thread) deals with GHOSTS, not reanimated corpses, that eat dead or living flesh.

You don't remember them eating the victims ??

[The Blind Dead]

I don't remember them eating flesh, just beating the shit outa people with pipes. But, it's been a while, so I could be wrong.

But, yes. Much of Japanese folklore (see the history references thread) deals with GHOSTS, not reanimated corpses, that eat dead or living flesh.
You may want to actually WATCH the film next time around because, yes, they do eat flesh.

I'm also aware of Japanese folklore and, in this particular case, it simply doesn't apply. This film's original title was "Zombies." When Tobe Hooper left the project it was retitled and a new director was brought in.

http://www.joehorror.com/blog/hooperszombies.jpg

[MaxVeers]

I saw Wicked Little Things (which was original, A, to be directed by Tobe Hooper, and B, plainly called "ZOMBIES")

I don't remember them eating flesh, just beating the shit outa people with pipes. But, it's been a while, so I could be wrong.

You may want to actually WATCH the film next time around because, yes, they do eat flesh.

I'm also aware of Japanese folklore and, in this particular case, it simply doesn't apply. This film's original title was "Zombies." When Tobe Hooper left the project it was retitled and a new director was brought in.

http://www.joehorror.com/blog/hooperszombies.jpg

But, yes. Much of Japanese folklore (see the history references thread) deals with GHOSTS, not reanimated corpses, that eat dead or living flesh.

Very good. You've learned not unread.

[MaxVeers]

You don't remember them eating the victims ??

I wasn't very impressed with the film. When it showed their first victim, I believe it just showed them beating the living christ out of him. That's when I stopped caring much. I think it applies more to ghouls and Japanese-style flesheating ghosts than our current idea of "zombies," if nothing else simply because their form is not the body they had when they were alive. It's a physical manifestation of what they were (no rot, no aging, etc, much like ghosts and ghouls).

[evilzombie20]

Wicked Little Things Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhQOtMUiptc)

Okay SO, the trailer shows them eating someone, calls them zombies, and really I think the lack of "rot" is possibly due to the lack of budget because the children do have pale faces as well as the typical black circles around their eyes like most lower budget zombies do.

Next time you watch the movie, pay attention and you'll see these details or you could just watch the trailer above.

[The Blind Dead]

Very good. You've learned not unread.
I understand you've got that "new convert" zeal to flex your pseudo-research into zombie mythology from around the globe but simply slapping your quasi-expertise on to any old film in order to prove a point doesn't quite make it a reality. I could insist WICKED LITTLE THINGS is actually commentary on coal miners and their union struggles but that wouldn't necessarily make that accurate.

Don't be so quick to assume you've schooled anybody. I didn't bother reading your first, long-winded reply so I have no idea what "facts" you spewed.

[MaxVeers]

I understand you've got that "new convert" zeal to flex your pseudo-research into zombie mythology from around the globe but simply slapping your quasi-expertise on to any old film in order to prove a point doesn't quite make it a reality. I could insist WICKED LITTLE THINGS is actually commentary on coal miners and their union struggles but that wouldn't necessarily make that accurate.

Don't be so quick to assume you've schooled anybody. I didn't bother reading your first, long-winded reply so I have no idea what "facts" you spewed.

If you didn't read, then don't respond. I said all the same shit you then repeated, big guy.

[The Blind Dead]

If you didn't read, then don't respond. I said all the same shit you then repeated, big guy.
I was actually referring to me not reading your first BIG, LONG-WINDED reply. Have many? Concerning WLT, you're wrong. Period. Move on. No need to beat your chest in order to hide the fact that you're an overzealous zombie cinema tyro. WLT was technically a zombie film. It was called "Zombies" for a reason and unless you can prove the concept was based on Japanese flesh-eating ghosts...you're working with nothing but silly suppositions. Blow away Napolean, the battle never got started for you.

[BarnabusBlackoak]

I wasn't very impressed with the film. When it showed their first victim, I believe it just showed them beating the living christ out of him. That's when I stopped caring much. I think it applies more to ghouls and Japanese-style flesheating ghosts than our current idea of "zombies," if nothing else simply because their form is not the body they had when they were alive. It's a physical manifestation of what they were (no rot, no aging, etc, much like ghosts and ghouls).

Exactly my thoughts too.

[MaxVeers]

I was actually referring to me not reading your first BIG, LONG-WINDED reply. Have many? Concerning WLT, you're wrong. Period. Move on. No need to beat your chest in order to hide the fact that you're an overzealous zombie cinema tyro. WLT was technically a zombie film. It was called "Zombies" for a reason and unless you can prove the concept was based on Japanese flesh-eating ghosts...you're working with nothing but silly suppositions. Blow away Napolean, the battle never got started for you.

Haha. Jesus Christ you're a self-rightous asshole. If you're calling me "overzealous," then it's a title that applies to all of us here. It's a damn movie; Relax or you're gonna have an aneurism.

It's called "Zombies?" No, no, wait, it WAS called zombies... Note the name change, which was for a reason. Zombie Chronicles didn't have any (conventional) zombies in it, nor did Electric Zombies. Hell, as long we're being sticklers here, White Zombie, Revolt of the Zombies, Revenge of the Zombies... All about a genre of zombies we've completely forgotten about, and pretty much ignore on this forum. So what's your goddamn point?

They don't rot, they don't age, they don't die. They're just ghosts, which seems to have a lot more to do with folklore than anything we here seem to aknowledge as being zombies.

I don't know why you get so riled up, insulting, and obnoxious, especially if you're not even willing to read other member's posts. It's a discussion, not a contest.

[The Blind Dead]

Haha. Jesus Christ you're a self-rightous asshole. If you're calling me "overzealous," then it's a title that applies to all of us here. It's a damn movie; Relax or you're gonna have an aneurism.

*shrugs* I guess if by self-righteous asshole you mean somebody that doesn't fall for the first pile of shit shoveled in my direction by a pretentious nobody...then yes...I am. I'm pretty damn comfortable owning up to my inadequacies. You should try it some time, kiddo. :lol:


I don't know why you get so riled up, insulting, and obnoxious, especially if you're not even willing to read other member's posts. It's a discussion, not a contest.

I'm not anywhere close to riled up so stop flattering yourself. If you didn't want things to escalate you would have refrained from resorting to name calling. It's apparent your pathetic attempt to remain civil only extends to those you haven't taken time to label "asshole."

Honestly, you haven't provided anybody with anything solid aside from your silly claims that WLT's antagonists may have been derived from Japanese folklore and until you actually do your homework, track down the writers and you present their corroborating comments as evidence....you're offering nothing worth considering.

Simply because this is a "discussion" doesn't mean you can start throwing around any old bullshit you just learned.

[Sadogoat]

You may want to include:Romero never called his OWN creatures "zombies" until after Dawn (he called then ghouls and flesh-eaters), and not on-screen until Land ("zombies, man...").

Just to correct the above - the term 'zombie' was actually used on-screen for the first time in Dawn Of The Dead, not Land Of The Dead. When Peter talks to Stephen over the walkie-talkie during the biker attack, he says 'When those bay doors open, there's gonna be a thousand zombies in here. That'll take the heat off us".

[evilzombie20]

Just to correct the above - the term 'zombie' was actually used on-screen for the first time in Dawn Of The Dead, not Land Of The Dead. When Peter talks to Stephen over the walkie-talkie during the biker attack, he says 'When those bay doors open, there's gonna be a thousand zombies in here. That'll take the heat off us".

You know, I always wondered why people think that LAND was the first to call the zombies, well zombies. I think in the Argento version, that line is missing, but then again I haven't seen the Argento version since the Ultimate Edition set came out so I could be wrong. I guess it was the first in the Romero films that called them zombies more than once??? Maybe...okay I'm grasping at straws here folks!

EDIT: Oh and just encase anyone's wondering, the title was changed from ZOMBIES to WICKED LITTLE THINGS after Tobe Hooper left the project in order to avoid the expectations horror fans might have had for a film Tobe Hooper once considered to direct. Granted Tobe Hooper probably hasn't done anything that great in 20 years or so, his name attached to projects certainly raises eyebrows. At one time it was also conceived as a remake of the 1980 film, THE CHILDREN, but that was changed shortly after they could not get the rights.

[MaxVeers]

Just to correct the above - the term 'zombie' was actually used on-screen for the first time in Dawn Of The Dead, not Land Of The Dead. When Peter talks to Stephen over the walkie-talkie during the biker attack, he says 'When those bay doors open, there's gonna be a thousand zombies in here. That'll take the heat off us".

Please look back and reread, I stated that earlier. We're at an agreement on this.

[MaxVeers]

*shrugs* I guess if by self-righteous asshole you mean somebody that doesn't fall for the first pile of shit shoveled in my direction by a pretentious nobody...then yes...I am. I'm pretty damn comfortable owning up to my inadequacies. You should try it some time, kiddo. :lol:

Listen, if you find anyone here to be a "nobody," then the term should apply to yourself, as well. No one here has any sort of authority over anything on the level (except for Brian Paulin, for example, over his own works, and others who've created something and added it to the collective of zombie films). Spouting insults is just childish, and I get a bit tired of it from you. It's not getting you anywhere.

I'm not anywhere close to riled up so stop flattering yourself. If you didn't want things to escalate you would have refrained from resorting to name calling. It's apparent your pathetic attempt to remain civil only extends to those you haven't taken time to label "asshole."

I hate to break it to you, but you, as per usual, started with the childish namecalling. Go ahead and look back; After I simply told you "very good, you're learning to unread," and not to post in response to things UNLESS you actually read them (which is just common sense, no insult implied), you started with your usual schpeel. "Overzealous zombie cinema tyro," "blow away, Napolean," etc. It's time to grow up. I'm sorry, but we're all adults here, and it's get VERY, VERY old. I actually got a PM just after you started on your tyrade from another user (who I won't mention the name of, out of courtesy) who suggested:

"Is it just me, or does Blind Dead come off as a sanctimonious know-it-all jerk?"

Apparently, others are thinking the same thing.

Honestly, you haven't provided anybody with anything solid aside from your silly claims that WLT's antagonists may have been derived from Japanese folklore and until you actually do your homework, track down the writers and you present their corroborating comments as evidence....you're offering nothing worth considering.

Simply because this is a "discussion" doesn't mean you can start throwing around any old bullshit you just learned.

As I mentioned already, it's a discussion, not a contest, and none of us here have any authority in what we say other than what we know. Since it's all fictional, it seems EVERYTHING any of us says is speculation, and I doubt many of us have tracked down the writers or creators to get a true and direct answer. In that, if you think that my opinions aren't worth considering, neither are yours.

I'm not interested in your opinions or childish banter anymore. I always found ignore lists to be a bit silly, but I guess when you're dealing with the internet, you're always gonna come across a few trolls. Welcome to my ignore list. Have a good one.

[evilzombie20]

As I mentioned already, it's a discussion, not a contest, and none of us here have any authority in what we say other than what we know. Since it's all fictional, it seems EVERYTHING any of us says is speculation, and I doubt many of us have tracked down the writers or creators to get a true and direct answer. In that, if you think that my opinions aren't worth considering, neither are yours.

Not to add fuel to the fire here but the writer of the film is on MySpace, I won't give away his address all it takes is a simple search to find him, and granted everything on here can be considered speculation but I think getting a definitive answer would solve things a lot quicker.

Also, not to add more fuel to another fire but you said Romero never referred to the zombies as zombies on screen until LAND when in fact they were referred as such in DAWN;

You may want to include:Romero never called his OWN creatures "zombies" until after Dawn (he called then ghouls and flesh-eaters), and not on-screen until Land ("zombies, man...")

But I'm assuming that was just a simple mistake on your part so no big deal.

[BarnabusBlackoak]

Listen, if you find anyone here to be a "nobody," then the term should apply to yourself, as well. No one here has any sort of authority over anything on the level (except for Brian Paulin, for example, over his own works, and others who've created something and added it to the collective of zombie films). Spouting insults is just childish, and I get a bit tired of it from you. It's not getting you anywhere.



I hate to break it to you, but you, as per usual, started with the childish namecalling. Go ahead and look back; After I simply told you "very good, you're learning to unread," and not to post in response to things UNLESS you actually read them (which is just common sense, no insult implied), you started with your usual schpeel. "Overzealous zombie cinema tyro," "blow away, Napolean," etc. It's time to grow up. I'm sorry, but we're all adults here, and it's get VERY, VERY old. I actually got a PM just after you started on your tyrade from another user (who I won't mention the name of, out of courtesy) who suggested:

"Is it just me, or does Blind Dead come off as a sanctimonious know-it-all jerk?"

Apparently, others are thinking the same thing.



As I mentioned already, it's a discussion, not a contest, and none of us here have any authority in what we say other than what we know. Since it's all fictional, it seems EVERYTHING any of us says is speculation, and I doubt many of us have tracked down the writers or creators to get a true and direct answer. In that, if you think that my opinions aren't worth considering, neither are yours.

I'm not interested in your opinions or childish banter anymore. I always found ignore lists to be a bit silly, but I guess when you're dealing with the internet, you're always gonna come across a few trolls. Welcome to my ignore list. Have a good one.


Well said, Max.

[Helu]

I consider mostly mindless human creatures with a singular goal to be a type of zombie. So I would consider 28 Days and Weeks to be zombie films. Even if they are not undead.

I also think Wicked Little Things feels more like they are solid ghosts, but there zombie aspects confuse things. The movie feels like a ghost movie but yeah technically I think I would call them zombies, but I hated the movie.

While the poster is great, you'll notice it has adult zombies on it, a lot of them. So I don't feel like it actually has anything to do with what the movie turned into. Tobe Hooper's Mortuary felt more like a zombie movie to me.

The Slither zombies are also zombies, in the same vein as Night of the Creeps and Shivers.

[Barbara]

You gotta think, the only real zombies are the ones that rose from the graves, not the ones bitten...because that would be an "infected".....hence 28 days later.

Its all very technical people....move along....nothing to see here

[Helu]

We have this discussion pretty often but then that's always a part of zombie discussions.

Zombie can also refer to a seemingly lifeless or automaton like individual. The infected in 28 Days work off a single goal, that of attacking others who are not like them. That is a one minded singular goal. Technically though I tend to call them infected.

So I just saw Wicked Little things again on Scifi. I don't hate it as much as I did the first time I saw it, but it still made the kids seem more like ghosts. You can't even damage them. Sure the ROTLD zombies couldn't die (but by fire) but they still rotted and got damaged. The Kids are always unscathed and need to be apeased, which seems more like ghosts. But then they eat people and are solid like zombies. There also doesn't seem to be any method of infection. It's only these kids because of hte events surrounding them.