What makes a good zombie movie?

[MaxVeers]

I want this to be... I guess a well-populated thread. I'm doing as much research as I can for my own film.

I've seen my own fair share of zombie flicks, from the original Romero films, the Russo-spawned series, their various spin-offs and remakes, and a good number of the endless amount of films these two (as well as gore hounds like Fulci and Mattei) have spawned. Everyone has had their hand in a zombie flick, it seems, from multi-million dollar blockbusters to home-shot B classics.

Now, here's why question: What do you think makes a good zombie flick? I mean, Night of the Living Dead, THE go-to spot for the genre, the film that started it all, was done on peanuts. Dawn had a modest budget, Day as well, and they're all classics. Land, despite it's multi-million dollar spendings, doesn't seem to score we high with ANYONE around here. Modestly-budgeted movies like 28 Weeks Later and Dead Alive get great spots on people's top tens, then again, so do huge blockbusters like Planet Terror , 28 Weeks Later, and Shaun of the Dead (albiet, the latter being a bit of a spoof). I don't think you need a big budget... Many people have done well without, and many have done badly with.

So, what, to you, makes a good zombie movie? Here's what I've picked up.

1. Believability. Yes, the dead returning to life is pretty unreasonable... but if you can make it look real, and make both your actors and audience believe, it can be terrifying simply based on the concept of the people we know and love, everyday Joes like you and I, can be our biggest nightmare and threat. That relates directly to my next point.

2. Acting. Sure, horror movies (especially low budget and B films) will have trouble getting big-name actors for their films, but that doesn't mean your actors have to be bad ones. If they can play their characters well (in some cases, meaning more or less play themselves) and believe in their script, as well as make themselves appear as if they believe what the script says is going on around them, that's one step you simply can't make up for with special effects.

3. Effects. Now, I'm no proprieter of gore. It's fun, and I think Day's gore effects were a perfect example of nasty, almost over-the-top gore being put to good use on a good script with good characters and acting, but I don't think gore makes up for anything. I've never been one who thought bad acting, bad scripts, a bad story, or anything else can be made up for by gore, and this seems to be where I differ from many here. I think effects, however, can memorable ones, can make excellent padding for otherwise grating dialogue and long character developement sequences.

4. Story. I am one who thinks horror should have original stories, which is sort of hard to do with zombie movies... It's all been done, and what hasn't is either difficult to make believable, silly, or both. But, if you have to revert back to cutting into someone else's ideas a little, atleast add something new that ISN'T retarded. No flying zombie heads, no body parts moving one seperated from the rest of the body, no vampire-zombies (decayed corpses with the mental capacity or physical ability of an average living human, or even super-strength)... Give us something new.

5. Creep factor. SHOOT AT NIGHT! Day shots are easy to see right through makeups and effects, and often times just look like poorly-done home movies. Creepy shots will always outdo gore in my book.

What do you think? I just finished watching Gangs of the Dead (which was ok, but... something seemed off) and Bone Sickness (which, with a combination of bad acting and transparent effects, I couldn't even sit through), and now I'm trying to put my fingers on a few strong points... What makes a good film?

[UNDEAD FRED]

I am easy to please

1. Zombies getting thier heads blown off.
2. The living being torn apart, and eating by the undead.
3. Apocalyptic doom, Society as we know it comes to a bloody gorey end.

[The Blind Dead]

ANY good movie starts with a solid script first.

Personally, I like my zombie films to be "different." I dislike the whole "run, hide, barricade, fight & die" formula.

I'm also a big fan of atmosphere and fantastic zombie applications. That's why I enjoy Fulci and De Ossorio so much.

[Zombie_215]

As the zombies are not eating or saying "BRAINS", it is a good movie...

[Ms. Smith]

1) I like a good story it can be a over used one but if you do that put your twist in it.

2) I love it when there is actually another female in it who can kick some ass. Not all of us are going to be in the woods in a dress and heels doing nothing but screaming.

3) An ending that lives room for watcher to want and find out what happens like the latest DOD we wanted to know if they all where eaten or if some how they got back on the boat and if they did how long did they live off that. no food , no water, no motor.

4) I also liked how the survivors made a plan to leave, plused realized that they couldn't stay there too much longer.

5) the cast is a big thing not everyone can be the hero we wish we could but why can't the geeky underdog kick ass and save the group not by doing a suicidal act. we don't have to get the crush but why we have to always die.

sorry for the ranting flashbacks of all horror movies popped into my head at that time :x

[Morbidfilm]

Ha, oh well, I was going to post my thoughts here but I see MaxVeers thinks I don't know shit about making a zombie movie. :) Oh well, I'll take my **** off, leave this thread and concetrate on filling orders still coming in 3 years later.

Well Max, you talk about what you think a zombie film should be. Now actually Do it! Seriously though, best of luck to you.

[MaxVeers]

Oh, my. This I didn't expect.

I meant no offense. I had no idea you posted here!

I only got in about a half hour of the film before I turned it off. The one actor really bothered me for some reason, and I was really bothered when they went to the graveyard and picked up what was obviously a mask (unless it was intended to be kids dressed as ghouls, and that was the point, but I don't think it was). The girl was cute, though.

I really meant no offense, man. I always try my best to give independently made films a better chance, and more respect, than big-budget movies. I'll give it another watch before I return them.

[The Blind Dead]

I'm wondering...does eating crow taste anything like humble pie? :mrgreen:

[Morbidfilm]

:) it's alright. I guess there's one lesson for you when you make a movie. Sometimes it can be tough to just hang out on a message board simply as a fan after you have a movie go out public. Obviously you can not please everyone, and sometimes your going to run into negative comments about your movie.
It just caught me off guard when I was all set to answer the topic honestly, and then run into what you said. It was kind of like, oh well, nevermind.

To address the halloween mask in the movie, yes it is part of an unfolding story. I did try to tell a story that you have to pay attention to as the movie progresses.

Maybe this is something that might work against shooting a no budget movie. When people watch a no-budget shot on video movie, do they automatically not pay full attention to the story because they don't expect one? They expect bargain basement production values and effects so they just wait and hope to see cool zombie scenes and miss important parts of the story.
I know I've done that in the past and didn't give an indie movie a complete chance.

[Pax Melmacia]

SHOOT AT NIGHT!

Another way of looking at this is that some directors of horror movies in general use dim lighting so they don't have to put too much detail in the make-up, scenery, etc. Sometimes, I feel cheated here.

I'lltell you what doesn't make a good zombie movie IMO: fast zombies.

[MaxVeers]

I'm wondering...does eating crow taste anything like humble pie? :mrgreen:

I don't think I'm "eating crow." I just didn't want to insult the guy, because he obviously put a lot of effort into it, and loves the project as a whole. It's his baby, and he seems like a nice guy. I just, personally, wasn't into it on first watch. But I still don't want to insult him for an honest effort, so I apologized.

[Weasel]

Definately how believable the movie is. And don't use any god damn camera angles that don't reveal all of what should be seen. I want to see what is happening and why.

It needs good gore, though all of it doesn't need to be visible. And no cheating. CGI gore is not cool. I want to sit back and say to myself, "How the fuçk did they do that?" or "That was so awesome. I want to watch that ten more times right now." I don't want to watch and think, "Where's all the blood? He tore off a limb and all there's only a little water bottle squirting out red liquid!"

And it needs a damn good story. Things need to ****ing happen and these things need to be something that makes you think and wonder. No sitting around waiting for zombies to crawl across the screen. Oh, and witty characters that move the plot along.

Also, most importantly, atmosphere. If it's a horror movie, make it scary, damnit. I want to feel what the characters are going through and what makes every one of them freak.

[The Blind Dead]

I don't think I'm "eating crow." I just didn't want to insult the guy, because he obviously put a lot of effort into it, and loves the project as a whole. It's his baby, and he seems like a nice guy. I just, personally, wasn't into it on first watch. But I still don't want to insult him for an honest effort, so I apologized.
KAW! KAW! SQUAWK! :mrgreen:

[taifOOm]

For me, if the film achieves that real sense of hopelessness and seclusion then it's going to get a good grade in my books. Too many new zombie flicks are relying on brain munching gore, which isn't what attracts me to the genre.

KAW! KAW! SQUAWK! :mrgreen:

Shit disturber! :evil:

[The Blind Dead]

Shit disturber! :evil:
http://www.joehorror.com/blog/eatcrow.jpg

*snickers* :evil:

[as_i_lay_dying]

I am actually writing a new script for a film I'd like to do, and I am trying hard to not make a movie with an overused plot. Although I am finding it hard to do. Oh well, I'll just hope for the best.

[Crusher Of Flowers]

I think a good zombie movie has a back story. Even if the backstory is "We have no idea how this happened but it could have been..." whatever.
Needs to be consistant.
Needs to be gory. This is a personal preference but I absolutly love gore. A few blown off heads and severed limbs isnt really enough to satisfy me. I like guts and brains and blood and... guts... Blood smeared on faces isnt good enough either... I like brain and skull matter sprayed on the nearest person.
You know in Dellamorte Dellamore? How the undead were kinda common place? I liked that. I didnt really like the movie so much but the idea was pretty awesome. Also in ReAnimator- I liked the explanation given for why the zombies acted as they did. I guess its inovation that gets me. Anyone write a "zombie story" but the little twists are what set it off in my mind.
Gore though. Gore is key. Over the top guts. Oh man. Even if its really campy looking. Blue skin and candy apple red blood. The more the better. Theres no such thing as "too much blood" imo.

[MrShape666]

You know? I watch it, and if I enjoy it, it's good. I'll worry about the why later.

[Rufus_Cane]

I like daytime shots. Admittedly the light can exaggerate crappy make-up (and acting for that matter) but my favourite zombie scenario is one where the undead are more of a background entity than a focal point. I think this works especially well where the zombies are slow moving (though i am not at all against the fast movers) because they imbue a situation with a sense of ominous potential danger, which is pleasingly creepier than immediate danger. I like the point in films like Romero's DotD where you can feel the characters getting more complacent because for me the main appeal of zombies has always been their property of only really being a serious threat in numbers. Unlike other horror characters that means that the threat they pose can be adjusted on a non-quantised scale (as opposed to say a giant monster, wherein if it's there there's danger and if it's not you're fine and the majority of the tension that can be built is from wondering weather in fact it is there or not or when it will be).

I've always been a fan of siege type scenarios so the whole run-hide-barricade/escape storyline sits fine with me, even if it has been done to (un)death. And who doesn't enjoy a good apocalyptic vision once in a while.

oh and my favourite method of infection is viral. There's just something so sexy about a good deadly virus.

[MaxVeers]

Needs to be gory. This is a personal preference but I absolutly love gore. A few blown off heads and severed limbs isnt really enough to satisfy me. I like guts and brains and blood and... guts... Blood smeared on faces isnt good enough either... I like brain and skull matter sprayed on the nearest person.
You know in Dellamorte Dellamore? How the undead were kinda common place? I liked that. I didnt really like the movie so much but the idea was pretty awesome. Also in ReAnimator- I liked the explanation given for why the zombies acted as they did. I guess its inovation that gets me. Anyone write a "zombie story" but the little twists are what set it off in my mind.
Gore though. Gore is key. Over the top guts. Oh man. Even if its really campy looking. Blue skin and candy apple red blood. The more the better. Theres no such thing as "too much blood" imo.

We definitely differ here.

[MaxVeers]

You know? I watch it, and if I enjoy it, it's good. I'll worry about the why later.

Well, I've written a script and I'm researching, so... That's why I ask.

[Crusher Of Flowers]

We definitely differ here.
Gore is like a prerequisite for all my movies. Im a gore fiend.

[BarnabusBlackoak]

decent makeup jobs. not just whiteface and black circles around the eyes.

[MaxVeers]

Gore is like a prerequisite for all my movies. Im a gore fiend.

I'm not too into gore. If it makes sense, sure. If it makes sense and grosses me out, even better. But if it's an unreasonable concept or reason for the gore, which is what a lot of horror filmmakers seem to lean towards, it just comes out as schlock.

decent makeup jobs. not just whiteface and black circles around the eyes.

It would depend on how dead they are, wouldn't it?

[BarnabusBlackoak]

It would depend on how dead they are, wouldn't it?

No, I'm talking about the real cheapie budget movies that just slap white makeup and black on the eyes. Like in ZOMBIE CAMPOUT.

[UNDEAD FRED]

I wouldnt mind seeing a zombie film where they actually go out and start to get the zombie situation under control. Like at the end of the Night of the Living Dead films. A sheriffs posse, or the military going out, and taking control of the situation. Fighting them in the fields, towns, and cities + gore. Did anyone get that end of the world feeling out of Night of the Living Dead 1968 or 1990?

[vortec1]

I wouldnt mind seeing a zombie film where they actually go out and start to get the zombie situation under control. Like at the end of the Night of the Living Dead films. A sheriffs posse, or the military going out, and taking control of the situation. Fighting them in the fields, towns, and cities + gore. Did anyone get that end of the world feeling out of Night of the Living Dead 1968 or 1990?

Yes I did get that feeling and I too would love a movie like that. I would also like to see some one make a movie from a book I read over and over again, simply titled " THE DEAD". has anyone else ever had this book?

[UNDEAD FRED]

I would love to see a story of a platoon of Marines sent into Los Angeles to help put down the quickly spreading zombie virus, and follow them as the streets of Los Angeles turns into a war zone, and the platoon of devildogs are down to only a few survivors that make Disneyland thier last stand survival compound.

[ZombiesAteMyDog]

first thing

I would love to see a story of a platoon of Marines sent into Los Angeles to help put down the quickly spreading zombie virus, and follow them as the streets of Los Angeles turns into a war zone, and the platoon of devildogs are down to only a few survivors that make Disneyland thier last stand survival compound.

Ive always said too Id love to see this sort of movie, even more so then this though I would love to see a movie that takes place between dawn of the dead and day of the dead where we actualy see people lose the war to the zombies and how they over took us, kinda the same idea as yours there except the exact opposite.

ok on to my thoughts on what makes a good zombie movie


obviuosly good gore and makeup, dont go overboard on gore, but dont under do it either, guts must be removed, chunks of flesh bitten off etc and not only in 1 or 2 scenes at the very end of the movie.

as far as humor goes, only do it if you can pull it off ala shaun of the dead, you dont want it to come off too cheesy or campy.

always being at night, I actualy think thats kind of silly, are zombies like vampires and go to sleep at during the day or do they freeze in place or something? I would imagine the threat is just as serious in the day time as it is at night.

we need to actualy care about the characters OR totaly hate them, either way when a zed starts feasting on thier bloody carcas we should feel something , be it anger / sadness our most favorite person got chowed down, or happy that the controlling crack smoking wife beater got his eyeballs gouged out, stiff characters that we have no vested intrest in makes for a boring movie over all.

the atmosphere of the movie, it needs to feel creepy, dire - like the people are completely overwhelmed by the situation, claustrophobic ( sp ) you dont have to always shoot in tight areas to get this feeling, people can be in the middle of a field etc, but it needs to feel as if though the world is slowly closing in on them and crushing them as it does which leads me to the last and most important part

LOTS OF ZOMBIES !!! how are we suposed to believe the world is being over run by zombies if we only ever see 1 or 2 on screen at a time, there should be at least 2 shots of 10 / 15 + ( or more if you can swing it ) zombies on screen at once, and dont lull the zed action in the middle, zombie movies love to have a zombies in the begining, then there is a bunch of melodrama in the middle, then some zombies at the end, im not saying get rid of the melodrama in the middle but keep throwing a healthy suply of zombies at the characters while all that unfolds etc.

as for the whole slow zombie vs fast zombie debate, thats like asking if you like dogs or cats better, they are totaly difrent animals, sometimes I want to play fetch with my dog, sometimes I want my cat to rub up agaisnt my leg, same thing with the zombies, depends what your in the mood for.

my :2cents:

id go back and correct the spelling but im feeling exceptionaly lazy at the moment :doh:

[Rufus_Cane]

first thing


LOTS OF ZOMBIES !!!

Damn straight! I've often wandered around the town centre on a busy market day and realised just how many people (aka potential zombies) there are in any given area. Plus I think it's safe to assume that most people wouldn't be shut up at home watching TV when they're turned. It's safe to assume that if a zombie can get to them then their zombified selves can get out and about. Going on to consider that the undead traditionally gravitate towards survivors and you end up with a massive crowd of zombies surrounding anyone living.

The person I've found to paint the best picture of a realisting zombie scenario is David Moody in his Autumn books. The points I think he really nails are the silence and darkness of a post apocalyptic world, the fragile and relatively unthreatening nature of a decaying body and the sheer immeasurable volume of zombie hordes.

[MaxVeers]

I wouldnt mind seeing a zombie film where they actually go out and start to get the zombie situation under control. Like at the end of the Night of the Living Dead films. A sheriffs posse, or the military going out, and taking control of the situation. Fighting them in the fields, towns, and cities + gore. Did anyone get that end of the world feeling out of Night of the Living Dead 1968 or 1990?

Dead Next Door.

[the creeper]

For me I always think the first people to make films in the genre have done the best. They had to make it all up (more or less) and IMHO get their strength from their originality.

To me the formula works best when you have things like, isolation, stress, mundane objects or places or circumstances that are twisted due to the outbreak.

You might try examining why NotLD and the remake work so well. Why Day and Dawn work so well. More so take a look at Cronenberg's Rabid or Shivers.

For me the idea of being isolated intensfies the story. I have never been into the hyper action or violent zombie movies. RE is cool in its own way and for its link to the games I will always watch them, but they don't scare me.

For me the psychological is where it is at. It is what provides the real human experience to the whole mess of an outbreak. The human condition type thing. How different people handle stress and violence and death in different ways. Some times in extrememley different ways.

Yes, if you have money for locations to use, make up and fx all that can help. But the crux is to not rely on those things to "make" the movie. I don't mind that Dawns make is bad overall. The deaths are good..but the surface make up is blah. They fixed that in Day and in terms of the creme de la creme.

But I digress.

Everyday people in everyday situations, with an outbreak. How they handle it, where do they go, what do they do? Those are the stories that work consistantly. Making the house or building they bunker in a character as well helps. Creating a enough tension and conflict between the survivors is key as well.

Hope that makes sense.